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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: jc33a on Sunday 29 September 13 07:05 BST (UK)
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I have come across an identical family crest granted to six men in the 17th and 18th century. Does that confirm a common ancestor? The families all appear to have originated in Shropshire.
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Do you mean a complete Coat of Arms or just Crest? The Crest is only the top part of a Coat of Arms and is not necessarily unique to a family. See:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms
Complete Coat of Arms (i.e. Shield + Crest + Motto, etc) are supposed to be unique to a particular family but mistakes by heralds and fraudulent applications have meant there are exceptions.
Also note that different branches of a family can make slight differences to their families arms to "difference" them from their cousins so there can be some variation in a families arms.
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There is a RootsChat board for all queries about crests, coats of arms,
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=430.0
Stan
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The coat of arms (excluding the crest) is identical in six different families with their pedigrees lodged in the 17th and 18th century. Benyon is not a common name - I haven't found firm links between four of the six branches, but I have a theory that they all connect.
The crest only appears in a couple of versions of the arms and appears to be fairly similar.
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I believe it would imply the College of Arms thought they were related based on the information given when the coats of arms were awarded. I've seen this with a family I've been researching who effectively died out but their coat of arms was granted to another family using the same name a couple of hundred years later but to date no proof of a connection has been found and they were living in different parts of England to each other.
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The coat of arms (excluding the crest) is identical in six different families with their pedigrees lodged in the 17th and 18th century. Benyon is not a common name - I haven't found firm links between four of the six branches, but I have a theory that they all connect.
What do the Armorials say about them?
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“Encyclopaedia heraldica: A Complete dictionary of heraldry” William Berry vol. 4:
Benyon, [Suffolk and Sussex,] vair ar. and sa. on a chief or, three mullets of the second.
Crest, on a mount vert, a griffin, sejant, ar. [Confirmed by patent to George Benyon, of
Alingboone, in Suffolk, by Robert Cooke, Clarenceux, 17th August, 1682.]
Benyon, [Salop.] The same, with a canton az.
Benyon, [Ashe and Whitchurch, Shropshire, and London.] The same Arms. Crest, on a mount
vert.a griffin, sejant, wings displayed, ar. collared vaire or and gu.
S.A.N.H.S. Vol 6 p 219-220, 419 “Armorial Bearings of Shropshire Families. From MS of the late George Morris” (205-257, 393+ )
Daniel Benyon of Ashe (from Harleian MS 1982 fol 27 dated 1663) Crest: Vairee, Argent and Sable, on a chief of the first, 3 mullets of the second – Crest on a mount vert. a griffin serjeant Argent, winges & busted
*FOOTNOTE: Same arms (The Benyons of Sussex, the same, and Edmondson adds to the Benyons of Salop a canton az.) quartered with per chevron gu. & or. 3rd, 3 gates counterchanged 2&1. Crest a griffin sejant arg.
Benjamin Benyon of Shrewsbury. Same. Crest, same, wings endorsed.
Charles Benyon Baliff 1625. Vairee arg & sa on a chief or 3 mullets of the 2nd. Crest as above.
Robert ap Eignion alias Benyon Baliff 1475. Per pale or & gu. A pale indented counterchanged.
An identical coat of arms appears on the grave of Richard Benyon of Englesfield (1796) and in the pedigree of George Benyon of London in the 1633 Visitation of London.
If anyone can interpret the variations, I would be much obliged. Daniel Benyon of Whitchurch is an ancestor of the Princesses of York through Sarah Ferguson.
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At least four of the ones that you have listed are different either in the colours or metals or by the addition of a canton. As to the one on the gravestone you are unlikely to be able to determine the colours. It would have been useful if you had reproduced the blazon (description) for the ones that you stated were the same.
For example the black mullets have a gold or silver background. There are also discrepancies for example vair is by definition blue and white fur and yet colours are specified, while vairee (or vary) is fur of the specified colours.
You are thus dealing with probably closely related people but the shields are actually different.
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This is a Benyon hatchment from the 17th century, the Benyon arms are on the left and his wife's (probably Mary Tyssen) are on the right. His son's hatchment and monument in the church bear the same arms, but the blue and white pattern becomes black and white.
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It would be interesting to know if the son mentioned was not in fact the eldest son which would account for the change of colour, although this does sometimes happen just across generations.
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he was an only son as far as I am aware.