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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: lyn22 on Saturday 05 October 13 11:25 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me what the bottom line says for Eliza Rogers it is something Essex Thanks Lynette
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Cleveland Essex?? :-\
Wiggy :)
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Looks like "Clareland" to me, which would suggest that it is the area of Clare in Essex.
Regards
Malky
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Thats what I thought Wiggy I dont know if there is a Cleveland Essex she was my 2nd Great Grandmother all I know is she came from Essex on her own Thanks Take Care Lynette
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Thanks Malky for taking the time to help I am not familiar with Essex. Here in sunny today Australia probably raining tomorrow.
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Map
Regards
Malky
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Thanks for the map Malky much appreciated Take Care Lynette
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I know this won't help, but both Clare and Stoke-by-Clare have been in Suffolk since at least 1837. (Until recently I lived near the Suffolk/Essex border for 30 years.)
Sorry I can't come up with an alternative suggestion :(
Carol
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Thanks Carol Eliza immigrated on her own in the 1850s and her husband William Burton immigrated at about the same time. Family gossip says he deserted from the Navy. They had their first child in 1856 but did not marry till 1871. Take Care Lynette
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Neither Cleveland, nor Clareland, nor even any conceivable village starting in that way appears in GENUKI Essex Towns and Villages. That means the place of birth is a hamlet which may not even still exist.
I have 2 very large and old Gazetteers of England & Wales or the British Isles - 1851 an 1862. Neither shows any place in Essex beginning Clare... nor a place called Cleveland.
I notice that you refer to her as Carol Eliza yet the census entry [it that is what it is] just says Eliza. Do you have documents showing her as Carol Eliza? I mention this because people did not have passports in those days or at least not as we know them and people could relocate and become whoever they said they were, especially if born before universal birth registration.
Then we have the possibility that she would appear on an English census, 1841 or 1851 but I cannot find any likely subject.
Lastly, how did she acquire the means to emigrate? I assume you are on firm ground there with records of immigrants into Australia.
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I did wonder if that place name started with something other than a C (E perhaps? :-\). There is a Clare above and the C looks a little different ... :-\
Presumably this is an immigration record? If so, spellings may not have been accurate.
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I notice that you refer to her as Carol Eliza
It should be "Thanks Carol, Eliza immigrated......"
Stan
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I notice that you refer to her as Carol Eliza
It should be "Thanks Carol, Eliza immigrated......"
Stan
Ah! I see it now.
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Based on the fact that there is a Charlotte Overall born in Great Bardfield in 1839 who emigrated to Australia (a few lines higher up the list), I assume that Eliza was born in about 1837, as she is two years older than Charlotte on the list.
Looking at the Eliza Rogers on the 1841 census, there is one born in about 1835 in Clavering, Essex. it doesn't sound anything like Claveland/Clareland, but the first five letters could be the same.
Others born at about the same time are in Wethersfield, Messing, Feering and Chelmsford. You could follow them through later censuses to see which disappear by 1861: I can see the ones from Feering and Chelmsford in 1861 as they weren't married by then.
Richard
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Based on the fact that there is a Charlotte Overall born in Great Bardfield in 1839 who emigrated to Australia (a few lines higher up the list), I assume that Eliza was born in about 1837, as she is two years older than Charlotte on the list.
Looking at the Eliza Rogers on the 1841 census, there is one born in about 1835 in Clavering, Essex. it doesn't sound anything like Claveland/Clareland, but the first five letters could be the same.
Others born at about the same time are in Wethersfield, Messing, Feering and Chelmsford. You could follow them through later censuses to see which disappear by 1861: I can see the ones from Feering and Chelmsford in 1861 as they weren't married by then.
Richard
Good detective work.
Do the names of Eliza's children have any similarity to potential siblings of those families. I had looked at the Messing one myself.
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hello Richard you had me worried I thought for a minute I had called her Carol. Eliza was born about 1838 her parents were John and Ann Rogers nee Wright. Williams parents were Thomas and Ann Burton nee Risby. Eliza and William children were William, Sarah Hannah, John, Eliza and Alfred. Take Care Lynette
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The 1851 census has an Eliza Rogers parents John and Ann, all b. Clavering, Essex. However her year of birth would be 1835.
Siblings - this may be a clue - Arthur, Emma, David, Moses, John, Amos.
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There are several online trees that say that the Ann Rogers in Clavering was born Ann Wright, but they only list Amos as their child. If you know her maiden name is Wright, it might be worth exploring further.
Richard
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Thanks for that no clues in the siblings names, my cousin had the information on Eliza I am assuming he had her death certificate. I will have to buy it myself and hope that there might be more information on it. That he might not have shared. Thank you everyone. Take Care Lynette :)
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Siblings - this may be a clue - Arthur, Emma, David, Moses, John, Amos.
The 1841 census also shows two elder siblings: George and Charlotte.
The coincidence of place names (Clavering and Claveland) and the parents names (John Rogers/Ann Wright) is quite marked, so this family is worth exploring a bit further.
Richard
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Thank you Richard that will be my mission today. Sometimes when I search I get sidetracked but I will stay focused on this family. I have gone back over my cousins notes and he says Eliza was born 1834 - 1838 Essex and she died 11 August 1919 at Fairfield Vic. He did his research over twenty years ago. So I am sure there is a lot more information now we can search online. Take Care Lynette
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I think you are on the right track I have found a few trees with Amos Rogers marrying Susan Taylor Parents John Rogers and Ann Wright. I will contact the owners and see if they know anymore. Take Care Lynette
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If you need them the Clavering registers are here (at a cost):
http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/EssexAncestors.aspx?selAlphabet=C&selParish=2242&selChurch=2243
Richard
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Thanks for that Richard I will have a look Take Care Lynette
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If you are still looking for Eliza Rogers bapt 16 Nov 1834 Clavering, Essex dau of John Rogers & 2nd wife Ann (nee Wright) I am currently working on her family.
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If you are still looking for Eliza Rogers bapt 16 Nov 1834 Clavering, Essex dau of John Rogers & 2nd wife Ann (nee Wright) I am currently working on her family.
Wow hello Chippy yes I am always looking for info she was my 2nd Great Grandmother. Her son John Burton married Mary Ann Snell my Great Grandparents they mainly lived in Kinglake West. If I have the same person as you. If you post a couple of more times I can send you a private message with my email. Take Care Lynette
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Hi Lynette
I am coming at this 'from the other side': John Rogers 1st wife was Hannah (nee Monk) - the gr.d.o. John Clayton & Sarah (nee Chipperfield). Hannah died in 1832. Charlotte is the only one of her children who survived to adulthood. Charlotte never married - she acted as her father's housekeeper after Ann (nee Wright) died in 1857. Charlotte died in 1874.
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Hi Lynette
I would love to have Eliza Rogers' emigration details. On the 1861 census John Rogers has a 4 y.o. gr. dau Elizabeth (Registered Saffron Walden Jul-Aug-Sep 1856). This has to be dau of either Charlotte or her 1/2 sisters Eliza or Emma. Elizabeth Rogers was not baptised at Clavering. So, if Eliza left England before 1856 she is out of the running!
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Hello the ship I think Eliza came on was the Chowringhee in arrived in N.S.W 16th Nov 1855. Eliza's first child William was born N.S.W 1856 she also had John ,Eliza , Alfred and Sarah Ann I have noticed other trees that call her Sarah Hannah . Eliza's parents I have as John and Ann Burton nee Wright. I have attached a photo of Eliza's son John Burton. I hope this makes sense I have a couple of Eliza's and it gets confusing sometimes. Take Care Lynette
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Hi Lynette and Richard
I do not recall having contacted you before. We are all related. I am from yet another branch of the Rogers/Burton family! I know where you fit into the tree Lynette but I am not sure where Richard fits in.
William Burton and Eliza Rogers are my great great grandparents.
My great grandfather was Alfred Burton, was born 5 Sep 1868 at Towrang (near Goulburn) NSW. William Burton lived in the Goulburn, Mittagong (Fitzroy Iron Mines) area Alfred moved with his parents to the Orange/Wellington area. Alfred was living in Stuart Town when my mother (his granddaughter) was a young girl.
Alfred later moved to Narromine to be closer to his daughter and died in Narromine, 5 Feb 1955. Alf went under the Rogers name and later the Burton name. The reason for this was his parents did not marry until 25 Dec 1871, in Bathurst.
Regards
Marion