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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Radnorshire => Topic started by: Griffl on Thursday 10 October 13 18:29 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I wonder if anybody could help me find any more information on John Lloyd who's was born in Radnorshire, it says NK for the specific place-so I assume this means Not Known?
He was a agricultural labourer , and from family stories he was said to be very poor(From an old photograph-John and his family look like gypsies! :P )
He married an Elizabeth Davies from Leintwardine near Ludlow in Hereford in 1890
This is the earliest record of him I have
So sometime before or just before 1890 he moved to Herefordshire near Ludlow to work
I am certain that I have the right man as I have a marriage certificate for one of his children and all the Names and dates of birth match up perfectly.
So my question is could someone help me find him before he moved to Hereford?
Thanks in advance! ;)
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Long Shot 1881 UK Census ???
PUGH, John Head Married M 68 1813 Farmer 30 Acres
Cwmdauddwr, Radnorshire, Wales
PUGH, Elizabeth Wife Married F 69 1812 Farmer Wife
Rhayader, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
MIDDLETON, Mary Servant Single F 17 1864 Servant (Dom)
Saint Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
LLOYD, John Servant Single M 17 1864 Servant (Indoor)
Saint Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
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His marriage cert. will give fathers name and occupation.
If you know the name of church where they wed, parish register will give same info.
Jackie
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Thanks Ill look into that to see,
the problem is ,I cant seem to find their marrage online
I can just find it on the 1911 census
another odd thing is that
on one census he says he was born in Radnorshire
another Montgomeryshire
and then on another Shropshire?
on the 1911 census they were living in a village called Brampton Bryan
which is in Herefordshire
but it is listed as being in Wales!
I guess its because its about a mile over the border from Wales
Anymore guesses or help would be useful :)
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There are 2 John Lloyd baptisms in Radnorshire in 1864:
One was in St Harmon, possibly the one from the 1881 census, on 29 Nov, parents Edward and Margaret. Edward was a labourer, from Llydiadcarne? 3 other children baptised at the same time.
The other was at Bryngwyn on 15 May, parents Rees and Elizabeth. Rees a labourer. Abode looks like Apostles Inn.
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the problem is ,I cant seem to find their marrage online
There was a John Lloyd marriage in Ludlow, Jun quarter 1889, to either Elizabeth Davies or Mary Thomas. Vol 6a, Page 1063
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Thanks!
I have ordered the certificate ,
I will keep you updated :)
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one for when the cert. arrives. from familysearch 1871 census
john Lloyd son born 1862 Pilleth Radnorshire residence Brampton Bryan in 1871
others in family
father Edward
mother jane
siblings William, Mary, Edward, Thomas, Charles
age is out but location good
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To match that 1871 census, there's a John Lloyd baptism in Pilleth on 29 Sep 1861, to Edward and Jane, Edward a labourer, abode The Graig.
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Hi,
Just got the marriage cert
and both fathers where labourers living in Leintwardine at the time
Johns father was a
Thomas Lloyd
So I it cant be any of the above sorry :(
Thanks
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I assume you're happy it's the right couple getting married though? If so, it's a help...
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John Lloyd is a direct ancestor.
He was born in 1864 according to all sources and was married to Elizabeth.
I have the marriage cert, which I think is the correct one.
He married Elizabeth Davies on 6th May 1889 in Leintwardine parish church, Herefordshire.
He lists his father as being Thomas Lloyd, a labourer.
The witnesses were William Davies and Elizabeth Meredith.
In 1891, which is the earliest census that I am sure of, he was living in Burrington, Herefordshire with wife and child. He states he was born "NK, Radnorshire".
In 1901, he was in Wigmore, Shropshire stating born NK, Shropshire.
In the last available census, he was in Brampton Bryan, Radnorshire. He stated here that he was born Gillsfield, Montgomeryshire which sounds like Guilsfield.
I am certain that the census are correct to my ancestor as all of the childrens names match living relatives memory.
I am aware I have asked this similarly, but I'm still scratching my head.
Can someone try and find a baptism or early census with his parents please?
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I'm sure you will have gone through loads but have you tried Loyd as a surname. There are some possibles in 1871. You may pick up family names.
Peter
Sorry but I forgot to put Thomas in as father and that removes the possibles
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To avoid duplication of info/effort - here is the link to one of the previous posts about John Lloyd
Threads merged.
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I thought there might be a possibility that the witness Elizabeth Meredith might be a married sister of John,which might help trace him.
There is a possible 1887 marriage of George Meredith to an Elizabeth Lloyd in Ross,together with the birth of a George Joseph(mmn LLoyd) in Ross in 1889.Unfortunately,it looks like the child did not survive and I can't currently spot the couple in 1891 for any more clues.
Regards
Roger
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Thanks Peter, I'm just having a trawl now.
Good idea Carole, thanks. Although as can be seen all info suggested previously was proved impossible by the mc showing Thomas as the father.
That's a clever line of thought despair!! Will take a look myself now.
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Working backwards,with Elizabeth marrying in Ross district,there is a reasonable candidate in 1881,with a father Thomas,and a brother Joseph(as in George Joseph Meredith?) at Coppett Hill,Goodrich,Ross.There is no John present but he could be elsewhere.
RG11/2586/127/8
Regards
Roger
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I've found the same family at the same address in 1871(RG10/2687/128/8).Unfortunately no John,but no Elizabeth either-let's hope they are both with relatives somewhere!
Regards
Roger
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I think George Meredith may have been married before the 1887 marriage to Elizabeth.This certainly looks like the couple,with Elizabeth's mother Susan present,in Ross in 1901
RG13/2474/62/1
meaning in 1891 they are in Newport,Monmouthshire
RG12/4383/30/12
It is not clear that this is the correct family connection for John Lloyd,but I haven't found a better candidate yet.
Regards
Roger
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The family I identified seem consistent with a marriage of Thomas Lloyd to Susanah Parry(1847).The children Ann(e),Charles,George,James,Mary,Elizabeth, seem consistent but after that I can't find a John,but a Thomas and Richard appear.
Not sure what to do next at the moment.
Regards
Roger
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Thanks so very much despair!! You have a very appropriate name for how we both must feel ;D
I've taken a look at your research and you're right that it would seem to fit with the Meredith. But yet again, they're very common surnames, well Lloyd at least, if they were uncommon names I'd be very much inclined to agree with you :( It's a shame that there isn't the vital man- John.
Family lore which has thus far been spot on, says that John was Welsh (and so why I posted in here), and is supported by 2/3 census. I have gone through every single John Lloyd b 1864, including those born way out of census places and have found a few possible contenders. I'm currently trawling through these once more.
Even though the marriage cert should say deceased if so for the father (Thomas) was dead, I am now looking for contenders with a deceased father. This may help explain why John wasn't sure where he was born as they could've moved around a lot? ???
I've found an interesting chap on the 1871 in Llwydiarth. (About 13 miles from 'Gillsfield')
Ellis Jones Head - Male 34 1837 - Ysbyty Ifan, (?)Denbighshire, Wales
Margaret Jones Wife - Female 40 1831 - Llangynog, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Robert Hughes Son - Male 10 1861 - Llanfihangel, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Robert F Lloyd Step-Son - Male 10 1861 - Hirnant, Montgomeryshire, Wales
John Lloyd Step-Son - Male 7 1864 - Hirnant, Montgomeryshire, Wales
(Robert F seems to be in London as a bus driver in 1891)
No sign of this lot on the 1881 census or any baptisms for the children. Why is Robert a Hughes if he was Ellis' son?
Now I need the most important part of a marriage for Margaret to a Lloyd, or even better, some baptisms. No stronger a case than yours, or even possibly weaker, but a possibility?
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I don't think the John born Hirnant is yours. He would appear to be John James Lloyd birth registered sept qtr 1863 Llanfyllin vol 11b pg 237 mother's maiden name Jones. He is in Oswestry in 1881 as a draper and then in Cheltenham in later census years still as a draper. His brother as Robert F in 1871 seems to be an error as he should be Robert Humphrey Lloyd registered dec qtr 1860 Llanfyllin vol 11b pg 245 mother's maiden name Jones.
1861 census Tynfedw, Hirnant RG9/4265 folio 57 pg 12
Robert Lloyd head mar 40 farmer b. Hirnant
Margaret wife 37 b. Llangynog
Jane E dau 4 b. Meifod
Robert H son 8 months b. Hirnant
Elizabeth Jones niece 22 visitor b. Llangynog
+ 3 servants
12 June 1855 in Llangynog parish church Robert Lloyd 32 farmer of Llangynog married Margaret Jones 30 of Meifod, his father Humphrey Lloyd, hers Robert Jones, both farmers.
Robert Lloyd died aged 43 jun qtr 1864 Llanfyllin vol 11b pg 187. He was buried at Hirnant parish church 25 May 1864 abode noted as Cwm, in the parish of Meifod.
Margaret Lloyd married Ellis Jones june qtr 1868 Llanfyllin vol 11b pg 390a
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That's great thanks osprey! Another one off the list. A much better researcher than I! :)
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I've got a few more crossed off the list now.
Just a side though: could it be that John somehow was changed from Evan ? 8)
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Not impossible,but I have no precedents to quote.I would guess not but have no basis for the guess.
I'm still pursuing the thought that Elizabeth Meredith was his sister.While I cannot find a birth for John that fits,I can't find a birth for Joseph that makes sense in that context either,so I'm still trying to resolve that.
Another possible line is that John named their first born(Margaret E?) after his mother?
Regards
Roger
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Still can't resolve the latter history of the Lloyd family I was considering.There appears to be a Thomas born 1865,but can't make him into a John Thomas or Thomas John.Indeed,unless he's the Thomas Francis Lloyd who dies in 1869 aged 4,I don't know what happens to him.Not that it helps,but I found Elizabeth in 1881 with her eldest sister Anne in London.As the George Meredith marriage is the only one that appears to qualify,maybe the line of enquiry is just wrong.
Regards
Roger