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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: mineyours+ours on Friday 11 October 13 14:53 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm trying to verify a family of mine in Nottingham. I have a copy of a baptism for Thomas Fisher son of William & Sarah Fisher on 19 Oct 1809 in the Parish of Everton, Nottingham, given to me by someone else.
In the 1841 census William and Sarah are in the Parish of Misson with children; Anne 25, William 23, Mary Robinson 20, Sarah Robinson 18 mnths (not quite sure how Mary and Sarah are connected, maybe through William jnr?) Thomas is married and living with wife in Bentley with Arksey with children: Sarah Anne, Elizabeth, Jane, Edward and William.
I have found a baptism for a Mary in 1815 and a Sarah 1813 both in Everton with parents William and Sarah. I haven't found Thomas or William.
Would there be someone with a copy of the Parish Register or who could have a look for me to see what children were born to William and Sarah?
I haven't yet confirmed a marriage for William and Sarah.
Any help most gratefully received. M
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Why not contact Nottinghamshire Archives? Better perhaps there are some locals to the area who use Rootschat. Perhaps one of them could do it? I used to go there regularly but it is now 250 miles to the North, not quite as far as you, but far enough. They have a sub office in Retford which actually is quite close to Everton. I think that the next parish to Everton is Bawtry , part of which historically and since 1974 all of it is part of Doncaster Metropolitan Borough, as too is Bentley with Arksey.
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there are these baptisms family search
All in Everton Notts
all with parents William & Sarah
Mary Fisher 5 Aug 1815
Sarah Fisher 19 Apr 1813
Thomas Fisher 19 Oct 1809
George Fisher 12 Aug 1810
then there is this baptism in Misson Notts
parents William & Sarah
Elizabeth Fisher
baptism 20 July 1817
death 17 Mar 1821
Suz
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Looks like a couple more children bapt at Mission
William Fisher 18.4. 1819 to William & Sarah , Farmer
John Fisher 31.5. 1822 to William & Sarah, Yeoman
Carol
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Found this marriage
William Robinson & Mary Fisher at Mission 2.1. 1839
So it looks like Mary Robinson was William & Sarah's daughter.
Carol
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Found this marriage
William Robinson & Mary Fisher at Mission 2.1. 1839
Carol
Carol, the parish concerned is in fact MISSON, north east of Bawtry, still in historic Notts now South Yorkshire
Fisher is a very common name in Doncaster to this day.
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Thanks Redroger
Typing error
Carol
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Thank you everyone, much appreciated.
And thank you Carol for solving the mystery of Mary.
Unfortunately Ann hasn't turned up. I realise I never mentioned her in my post, but that's what happens when doing research when you should be in bed ::)
Ann was unmarried, she was with William her father in the 1851 census and then took in lodgers and family in the following censuses. I am fairly certain she is this family with all the connections but still want to confirm.
I realise after reading your post Redroger that I should have put it on the Nottinghamshire board, as before I can only plead lack of sleep.
Should I get it moved it or start another with a link?
That is an interesting comment about Fisher being a common name today in Doncaster. I wonder how many are relatives? It's fascinating finding all the new connections from looking into the past. M
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Hi
I should try to get this thread moved to the Nottingham board rather than starting a new thread.
It will save duplication.
Carol
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I've found a little more information that may relate to your family
William Fisher, yeoman of Scaftworth, Everton was named as Bondsman on the marriage licence of Margaret Fisher & John Sharp who married 24.2. 1810 at Bawtry. Margaret is a spinster, 21 or over and of the parish of Bawtry in the parish of Blyth.
Margaret was baptised to a George & Mary Fisher 7.6.1786 at Everton
William baptised to George & Mary Fisher 18.8.1775 at Blyth abode Norney
George Fisher married Mary Simpson 6.6. 1771 at Bawtry
Carol
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Hi Carol,
That sounds very promising, thank you. I've been looking and looking and can't find much at all ???
Where are you finding your info? Is there any other William coming up in that area or do you think it would be safe to put them as family.
I have found Mary Robinson and her family from the marriage you found and definitely Ann Fishers sister. Both born Scaftworth and Marys daughter Sarah Elizabeth stays with Ann when her husband dies. Have also found confirmation that my Thomas is the family as his wife Ann lives with Ann and Edwin Rooth in 1901. Now Ann Rooth was the Ann Robinson who was with William and Ann (William and Sarahs daughter) in the 1851 Census. She married Edwin Rooth who was Anns boarder. Hope you can understand that tangle.
So definitely the family, but all the other brothers and sisters, George, Sarah, William and John, are being very elusive. Can you find marriages for any of them?
Still haven't found Anns baptism but she is definitely one of them.
Will wait to see if you can work your magic on any of the others ;) M
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Remember always in this "frontier zone" that Bawtry could mean the part of the town that was in the then West Riding of Yorkshire, and now part of Doncaster (the whole settlement since 1974!) Bylth was an is in Norringhamshire. It occurs to me that Doncaster FHS might be able to help. Why not try their website?
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Hi
According to the 1851 census (that's if I've got the right one) William gives his birth place as Blyth, Nottingham and is aged 75 which fits with the one baptised at Blyth in 1775 to George & Mary.
He gives his occupation as Land Proprietor so maybe he left a Will. Have you found his death / burial ?
A little information on the George Fisher marriage
George Fisher, 21 or over, bac of Blyth, Husbandman
Mary Simpson 21 or over, spin of Bowtry, Yorkshire
William Fisher , Husbandman of Blyth was bondsman
A couple of sites worth looking at
http://mss-cat.nottingham.ac.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Roles&dsqCmd=Search.tcl
http://mssweb.nottingham.ac.uk/catalogue/
Other information was from the Notts FHS CD
Carol
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Hi,
No I haven't 'worked out' his death/burial yet. And yes I think you have the correct entry in the 1851 with Landed Proprietor as it has Ann his daughter and Ann Robinson gddaughter whiich ties back in with Ann, Thomas's wife later on. The 1851 census is the last one I can find him in so death must have been in the 50's.
Thanks for the sites, will go into them today, haven't had time yet as it's been full on with granddaughters birthday party.
I did try to go into the Nottinham Family History Society website a few days ago but the internet is saying it has Malware and could damage computer so haven't gone any further.
So will check these out tonight. Cheers, M
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The Notts FHS website seems to be ok today. I also tried a couple of times over the weekend and got the same message.
Carol
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Burial Misson
27-12-1853 William Fisher abode Doncaster
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Burial Misson
27-12-1853 William Fisher abode Doncaster
Makes my point I think. I would imagine that a search for him on the 1851 census would show him working for the Great Northern Railway.
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Thank you Larkspur. A lovely surprise to come back to. That fits as his last census was 1851 as Landed Proprietor. Have been doing a bit of digging for Thomas's wife Ann Fow/Fowe and from what I can make out I think her sister Jane might have married George, Williams other son. I have found baptisms for Ann and Jane with parents Edward and Ann Fow. He is a butcher. I have also found a death notice for an Eliza Fow who died at the residence of her sister (Mrs Jane Fisher, Bawtry), and it said Eliza is the eldest daugher of the late Edward Fow, Bawtry.
I have also found a 1841 census for Jane and George Fisher living with Ann Fow and her daughter Eliza in Bawtry. George is a surgeon. His age fits with Williams son.
They married in 1840 and he's in 1841 cen but she is a widow in 1851. Now, the surgeon bit is very interesting because family say George John, Thomas's son who came to New Zealand, came from a family of doctors. But I couldn't find any evidence in his brothers apart from one being a chemist. But maybe it was his uncles :) Would love to find out whether William and John were also doctors, but haven't managed to find them yet. The pieces of the puzzle are slowly coming together!
Apparently George John had also had some medical training, a fact I was dismissing until just recently. Thomas and family incl. George John lived at Bentley with Arksey. Does anyone know where medical training would have been done in that area?
Redroger, thanks for the insight into the area. I have to keep coming back to it as it is so confusing with the entries for Blyth, Bawtry and now Ordsall has come into it with the Fow's.
There seem to be two families, Edward and Elizabeth Fow from Bawtry(butcher). I think their son is John and Lydia (butcher also) who lives Bawtry and also a son Edward and Ann (butcher also) lives Bawtry (Ann's parents).
There is another family, John and Mary Fowe, who live Thrumpton, Ordsall (Farmer). I'm not sure if this family is connected to the other. There are a couple of entries such as burials for the first lot which have the place as Ordsall and not Bawtry but they fit for the first family. Is this just a case of confused boundaries? Or do I have them incorrect? Very, very confusing.
And on that note sleep is needed. So cheers for now, M.
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Baptised Ordsall
5-1-1809 Eliza dau of Edward and Ann FOWE
Burial Misson
25-6-1847 George Fisher age not given abode Bawtry
Marriage's Bawtry
11-10-1814 John FOW & Lydia Baines
28-6-1824 William Hindley & Martha Fow
My Cd does not have Bawtry baptisms or burials.
Marriage's Ordsall
15-12-1794 Thomas FOW & Martha Undy
11-2-1811 John FOWE & Mary Wilson
Marriage Blyth
23-6-1808 Edward FOW and Ann FOW
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Thrumpton is now part of Retford, some 10 miles further south of Bawtry, but well within a natural area I would think. I have no known personal connection to the area, but my wife's father's family (Taylor) originated at Everton. Initially they were farm workers until the railway scattered them far and wide. My late father in law was born in Leeds, and the family later returned to Doncaster. A strange aside when I worked at King's Cross there was a driver surnamed Taylor then verging on retirement so now certainly deceased who lived in Peterborough, but travelled daily to London to work, who had an uncanny facial resemblance to my wife's uncle. I just wonder if he was part of the same very large family who mostly left the land for the railway industry in the 19th century?
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Sorry I've taken so long to reply. Redroger, as to your aside, I am finding families have so many 'threads' everywhere so it is quite possible he was a connection. In the last couple of months I have discovered 2 connections within 30 minutes of myself who I knew nothing of. Lovely to find them but it does make me wonder how 'intermingled' families could become.
Now these families of mine. I am wondering just how intermingled they were :)
Thank you Larkspur, I think that will be Georges burial, Janes husband.
I am slowly putting people into the family groups but can't quite fit Thomas and Martha. There's a census entry for a Thomas and Martha who I think could be the marriage you have found but the age doesn't quite work to be Edward and Elizabeths son Thomas. Edwards son was baptised 1775 and the census one was born c. 1786 - 1782. Is this too much of a difference?
I also have an Ann Fow, unmarried born c. 1801, living Bawtry and a brother and sister, Edward born c. 1785, Retford and Elizabeth born c. 1801, Ordsall. I am wondering if these ones are children of Edwards (Edward and Elizabeth) brothers. There is definitely a connection as Eliza was visiting the brother and sister in 1851.
I am also wondering if Ann Fow who married Edward Fow was one of these cousins. Was it common for cousins to marry cousins?
Any help sorting this tangle of Fows gratefully appreciated.
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Ordsall baptisms
Parents Simon & Ann Fowe
30-1-1791 Elizabeth
11-7-1788 Simon
11-7-1786 Mary
9-11-1794 Robert
Sorry cannot find the others.
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During the "Rural Age" which preceded the Industrial Revolution families did indeed become very intertwined' very many marriages were outside the bounds of relationship ordained by Canon(church) law; practically they had to be. Though people did indeed travel long distances on occasions there were very many more who never ever left their community of birth. So it was inevitable that these marriages took place; and sensible clergymen (which means most) took a common sense view of the situation and allowed the marriages to take place. I have done much research on my mother's side of the family at Bottisham (Lode) near Cambridge. It is a village that is practically related to itself, through inter marriage over many generations. In my case it has left me as my own 4th cousin; or is it 3rd.Caused by the youngest member in a generation marrying the daughter of his brother 20 years older than himself. She was of his own age group; the marriage was of course quite illegal, but no-one seemed bothered. It was like a large number of marriages there. I remember when I first started research asking my mother the surname of her paternal grandmother; she was then 90+ and replied "Cornwell" the tone in her voice implying that i should have known as it was a law of nature!! As my research developed I understood a lot better, Ayres' (her father's name) had been marrying Cornwells in the village for at least 250 years and possibly a lot longer.
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Many thanks everyone. The pieces are coming together :)
I have two niggles. The first being Thomas Fow and Martha Undy, I can't quite get them to fit and the second is to find a tie between Simon and Ann and Edward and Elizabeth. There has to be one but it's not popping up. Never mind, will keep plodding.
Cheers for now, M
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At the beginning of this thread there was Sarah Fisher found on Familysearch, bapt on 19 April 1813. Trying to find what happened to her. There is a marriage on FreeReg for a Sarah Fisher to William Booth on 25 Dec 1833 at East Markham, Nottinghamshire. Would anyone have any further info on this marriage to tie in with my Sarah?
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I don't have anymore information on the marriage I'm afraid, but the 1841 census has Sarah 30, William 30, Charity 5, & Ann 3 living at Kingsey Common. East Markham. All said yes to being born in the county
In 1851 Charity 15 is living with William Fisher 69,Farmer & Sarah Fisher 66 at Darlton. William gives his birth place as East Markham
Carol
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Hi Carol, You have pointed out a huge error I have made wasting hours and hours finding out the descendants of Sarah (Williams wife B 1785) :'( And I am not the only one when I look in family trees.
I don't think Sarah Booth is my family because the William and Sarah Fisher you pointed to aren't the ones mentioned in the beginning of this thread. But looking at them they are very similar ages and that Sarah comes from Ragnall, Nottinghamshire. My Sarah Fisher is only alive in the 1841 census and therefore no birth place. I found a marriage for William and Sarah Herring 1803 and the children for my William and Sarah started from 1809 (should have realised they usually start the year after marriage!)
Sarah Herring is from Ragnall as is the Sarah you mentioned. The chances of two Sarahs from Ragnall marrying two Williams is a bit slim I think.
So now I am back to finding the history of two Sarahs, younger and older.
Carol, do you have any marriages for William and Sarah in Blyth area about 1808?
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Hi
There is only one other marriage I can see, but it's not your end of Nottinghamshire.
22.8. 1803 William Fisher, wid aged 28, Farmer of Kirkby & Sarah Smeeton, widow aged 25 of Selston. Married at Selston
There is also a baptism of a Sarah Fisher 12.8.1811 at East Markham, so it may be her who married
William Booth.
Carol
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Marriage Babworth
28-11-1803 William Fisher & Sarah Herring
Baptism Ragnall
6-3-1785 Sarah dau of John & Mary Herring.
Baptisms East Markham
The parents are William & Sarah Fisher, the dates fit around the other baptisms at Everton, and also occur a few months after the 1803 marriage, which is not unusual.
18-3-1804 Mary father a lab.
11-5-1806 Elizabeth father a labr
27-11-1808 William father a labr
12-8-1811 Sarah father a labr.
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Thank you both. That definitely rules out Sarah Herring :(
Must do something else today but will have to do further investigating into Sarah Smeeton.
As she was a widow maybe this is where Ann came from as we've never found her baptism. Is there a baptism for Ann born to Sarah Smeeton?
Although she does have her birth at Scaftworth in the census ???
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Further to my previous comment, Thomas and George were born before Ann so her being born previous to the marriage doesn't make sense! No need to look further along those lines.
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Burial Misson
10 May 1843 Sarah Fisher abode Misson. No age given.
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Thank you Larkspur, much appreciated.
I've been looking around and someone on familysearch has a marriage for a Sarah England to William Fisher in York on 17 Oct 1807. She is aged 21. I haven't been able to find any other evidence of this marriage. Is there anything on cd about this one?
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Hi
I have a CD of York marriages (City) but can't see anything for it. Which church was it?
Carol
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Hi Carol,
Not sure what church. All they have for Event Place is York, England. So not sure how correct this is. I read somewhere that Nottinghhamshire is one of the best for coverage of transcriptions etc. Not sure if this is correct but thought if you can't find this one maybe it didn't happen. M.
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Just thought, William and Sarah both have yes for born in county. In the 1851 census, William has born in Blyth, Nottinghamshire. M.
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Ancestry also has a tree with a William Fisher married to Sarah England, they are on the 1861 census in Brightside Bierlow, Sheffield, Yorkshire.
York is in Yorkshire not Nottinghamshire.
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Yes sorry, just found it. It was St Peters, Huddersfield and the cert said he was of Sheffield. So that cuts that one out doesn't it. M.
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Hello once again,
Success! Through our talk here and findings, dates etc, another relative went and found the headstone for William and Sarah Fisher. On it is included Sarah's only sister Ann Marsden, and there is a marriage for William Fisher and Sarah Marsden. Fantastic isn't it how working together succeeds.
Now I am looking for Williams Grandfathers baptism. On FreeReg George (George who married Mary Simpson and is Williams father) has William as his father and baptised in St Mary & St Martin, Blyth, with Abode Norney. I have found several children with the same info and the eldest is John baptised 9 Oct 1733.
Can anyone help with a marriage for William around the year 1733 and also a christianing for William around 1700. I have found a couple of baptisms on FreeReg but they would have made him about 15 when John was born and they were usually older weren't they?
As before, any help very gratefully received. M
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There are 6 baptisms for children of William at Blyth, with the abode of Norney (??)
The only marriage I can find time wise
10-11-1730 William Fisher and Hannah Gilberthorpe at Harworth.
William did baptise a daughter Hannah 1-3 1741 at Blyth.
No baptisms coming up for William Fisher 1700 +- 10 years.
As you say there is one in Blyth 12-2-1719 with father Arthur, but surely too young, unless it was not an infant baptism.
There are another 2, but at some distance to Blyth,
Barnby in the Willows 17-3-1716 parents William & Alice
Averham 17-1-1713 parents John & Eliz.
There is only 1 burial for a William Fisher at Blyth 4-3-1790, sadly no age given.
All from NFHS.cd's
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Hi Larkspur,
Appreciate your help. Can you tell me the sixth please? I have John 1733, Sarah 1735, Thos 1737, Hannah 1740/41 and George 1743/44. And for the marriage for William and Hannah is it Haworth or Harworth. I was just talking to a relative when your email arrived and she believes she may have found something pointing to their origins in Harworth, which is keeping in the Blyth, Norney area. Yes it was the Arthur one I found but as you say surely too young. Is there anyway we can find out the age of the child, it doesn't usually say on the original does it?
Maybe I should see if someone could have a look in the cemetery for the headstone? M
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Harworth All Saints
Baptism
7-1-1732 William son of William Fisher abode Harworth.
There are 83 burial records in Harworth for the Fisher family. The earliest 1578.The last I have 1900.
There is a burial of a William at Harworth he was a farmer
16-4-1783 aged 86 abode Harworth.
and to clinch it...burial of :-
Hannah Fisher 2-7-1745 abode Blyth Norney, notes:-wife of William.
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The only baptism coming up for Hannah
Blyth
23-5-1717 Hannah dau of Edw.d Gilberthorp abode Torworth.
again, too young??
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Ancestry has a baptism for a William Fisher at Babworth 26-3-1695 with parents William and Sarah.
this is mistranscribed on my cd as William HISLAR--was NOT going to find that one with a wild card search ! ::)
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Okay, my brain is fizzing. First, I will steer clear of the Babworth one as I think that might be the one which confused everyone in the later generation who married Sarah Herring (earlier in the thread).
Second, are you telling me Hannah Fisher entry 1745 was a death, if so fantastic.
Third, William 1732 is that the sixth baptism, I asked about as the others all have Abode Norney and this one Harworth? If so that fits with a family move from Harworth to Norney doesn't it?
Fourth and last, if she is very young and he is very young maybe it fits, maybe they got into trouble at a young age?
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Things are moving. My relative has now come back with the following, using your info on William and Hannah (which she spotted elsewhere):
'William FISHER married a Hannah GILBERTHORPE at Harworth, Notts in 1730.
She was baptised at Harworth in 1703 the daughter of Thomas & Jane
Gilberthorpe. Unable to find the marriage of Thomas and Jane'.
So this throws out my theory of young and getting in trouble and probably Arthur also.
Is there any entries which would apply to these names? M
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Hi M
From Notts FHS CD
Baptisms
Anna Gilberthorpe to Thomas at Harworth 3.2. 1704 (notes give 1703/1704)
Sarah Gilberthorpe to Thomas at Harworth 9.3. 1700/1701
Burials
Jane Gilberthorpe wife of Tho 2.10.1720 at Harworth
Thomas Giberthorpe 21.2.1730 at Harworth
Carol
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Yes the burial of Hannah Fisher in 1745, ties Harworth and Blyth nicely together, adding the extra stamp on her husband being William. It seems the family moved between the two places. They are only 3 miles apart after all so not a great move !
Just to clear up any problems, Baptisms of children of William Fisher, no mother named.
Harworth, All Saints
7-1-1732 William son of William Fisher abode Harworth.
Blyth, St Mary & St Martin.
9-10-1733 John son of William Fisher abode Norney
9-10-1735 Sarah dau of Willm Fisher abode Norney
10-10-1737 Thos. son of Willm Fisher abode Norney
1-3-1741 Hannah dau of Willm Fisher abode Norney
22-1-1744 George son of William Fisher abode Norney.
I have no marriage of Thomas and Jane Gilberthorpe on my cds.
Norney is one of the hamlets surrounding Harworth, the other two being Serlby and Martin.
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Hi once again Carol, Many thanks to both of you for this info. All coming together very nicely.
Next step to find Williams father. The burial for a farmer William Fisher buried 16.4.1783 aged 86, this would make birth approx 1697. I have found a marriage for a William Fisher and Dorothy Hepenstall on 19 Jun 1690 in Blyth, but no christianing after. Have you any on your CD's please?
There is a marriage for William Fisher and Mary Smith on 24 Jun 1681 in Blyth. Children baptised with Will as father, Mary 15 Jun 1682, Will 2 Jun 1684, Arthur 6 Apr 1686, all Blyth. Do you think this Will (1684) is to early to be the William who married Hannah? M
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Sorry also meant to ask about Wills. Has anyone any suggestion where we are going wrong trying to find a will for William Fisher Bapt 18 Aug 1775 Blyth and Burial Misson 27.12.1853 abode Doncaster. We have tried all sorts. We have his fathers, his uncles and his sons but his isn't appearing and he should have one as they all seemed to have some assets. His death appears but no will anywhere. M
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No baptisms coming up for William Fisher 1697 +- 10 years.
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Hi M
Have you contacted the Records Office regarding the will?
Carol
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Hi Carol and larkspur,
Re the Will, I think that is where my relative has been searching online but can we contact them and they will search? I know nothing on the process of wills.
As to William the farmer aged 86 yrs, I think they were quite fluid with their ages when they got up there weren't they, so I might have to go with William and Mary Smith and baptism of Will 2 Jun 1684 (until proven otherwise). Gets quite hard confirming entries back this early. This is where the wills come in handy. M
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Hi,
Can I ask if someone could verify a marriage please?
Hannah Fisher married John Cood in Bawtry. In a will she is Hannah Cood but on freereg I can only find a marriage to John Codd on 20 Mar 1770. Is this a mispelling or a different marriage altogether?
Many thanks for help received. M
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Hi M
The only marriage on the Notts FHS CD is Hannah Fisher to John CODD 20.3. 1770 at Bawtry.
It might be worth contacting the Records Office re the will. Each RO has a different procedure.
Nottingham RO has an enormous card index for their wills, I'm not sure about South Yorkshire wills though. Maybe someone else will know. Have you visited the RO websites to see what they say about wills?
There is also a site called Origins which has a lot of will on their site. You can take out short subscriptions.
Carol
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Remember until 1974 Bawtry straddled 2 counties, Nottinghamshire and Yorkshire West Riding.Doncaster archives or Doncaster FHS might help.
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William Married Hannah in Harworth on the 10/11/1730 Cheers Lew
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Here's the family tree for 'my' Fisher family from Nottingham. i have a lots more info but it's not online yet... so if any names are good just send me a message.
Family tree can be found here: http://thefisherfamilytree.com/