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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: ktw on Sunday 13 October 13 03:34 BST (UK)
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Hi All, I have hit a brick wall with a John McCarthy and Mary Quinn, my ancestors. I am descended from their youngest son, Thomas. I have managed to put together a profile on them both from 1846 onwards but am struggling with anything earlier. I have attached a profile of both John McCarthy and Mary Quinn based on documents that I have acquired as well as perusing other researchers. What I am getting an impression of is that the family seemed to follow the various gold rushes in both Victoria and Queensland. I think prior to 1846 the family were in the Yass/Forbes/Goulburn area but this is just a hunch. All posts on various websites appear to have hit the same brick wall as myself. I think the key to cracking Mary Quinn is to look for her mothers death certificate (a Mary Quinn was a witness at my Mary Quinns funeral so I am thinking it is the mother). I look forward to any assistance.
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Hi Kazwhell,
What is going on here?
08 Jun 1858, Kilmore, Colony of VIC
Thomas McCarthy (son) death certificate
My ancestor. Father: John McCarthy; Profession: Carpenter;
Age: 40; Born: Sydney, NSW
08 Jun 1858, Kilmore, Colony of VIC
Thomas McCarthy (son) death certificate
My ancestor.
Mother: Mary Quin Ingram (?)
Age: 28
Born: Stafford, England
I just worked it out, it is Thomas' birth certificate.
Debra :)
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Yep - typo. Birth certificate is correct. Trouble with cutting and pasting. I am descended from Thomas McCarthy and Annie Gallagher's daughter Elizabeth McCarthy who married my great grandfather William Searle.
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Hi,
Would seem to be correct death of Mary McCarthy.
MARY MCCARTHY, FATHER UNKNOWN QUIN, MOTHER MARY, AT COOMA NSW 3650/1860
This DC should give marriage, Spouse, children, how long here. A full transcription is cheapest method.
Neil
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Sorry having trouble with the computer and only just got the last post in. Storms last night. Looking at you assumption for Mary's parents, why only her mother came as convict. her father could have and her mother came free with Mary and possibly other siblings. It's a fair guess they didn't just immigrate.
Mary Born roughly 1826 married in 1840 AGED 14!! Not impossible then but someone had to give permission. The wedding 1840, if it happened, has not been indexed, also not unusual.
It was not unusual also that the married couple Quinn lived together after arrival, so more children. There are only two couples on the index. A William Quinn or a James Quinn, both having children in the right timeframe. Neither couple's before 1830. James and Mary the earlier of the two with a birth 1832.
There are quite few deaths recorded of James Quinn as possible previous Prisoners, normally no parents shown at death on register, prior to 1860 and as early as 1844. Two deaths are doubled up on the registers but one in 1844 stands out. James Quinn aged 37 in 1844 Rf # V1844626 44B/1844
Neil
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May I please ask about the 5 Oct 1845 Baptism for a John McCarthy .... Your comment indicates that another researcher has the location as Forbes NSW. I find this somewhat confusing, as to the best of my knowledge in 1845 that district on the Lachlan was yet to become known as Forbes.
http://www.bellsite.id.au/Site/family_trees.html
http://www.bellsite.id.au/gdbtree/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_38/P32127.html
The tree owner has NOT supported their statement that John McCarthy (son of Mary Quinn 1826-1860 and John McCarthry 1818-1876) was born 1845 at Forbes NSW Australia.
The NSW BDM commences CIVIL registration in March 1856, so any events that are indexed at NSWBDM with "V" as part of the reference no. are for EARLY CHURCH RECORDS (baptisms, burials, weddings) .... Sometimes the NSW BDM has duplicated (or triple/quadruple even) the Early Church Records while at other times there is NO entry listed at NSW BDM.
I have NOT yet completed reading your pdf attachment :)
Cheers, JM
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Given that Mary McCarthy died at Cooma in 1860, then this death seems a more probable death of John.
JOHN MCCARTHY, FATHER WILLIAM MOTHER JOHANNA AT COOMA REF # 5663/1875
Neil
MODIFIED TO ADD
I cannot see a birth for John McCarthy 1845 but one is indexed three times for same, in year 1842?
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I think the key to cracking Mary Quinn is to look for her mothers death certificate (a Mary Quinn was a witness at my Mary Quinns funeral so I am thinking it is the mother). I look forward to any assistance.
Here is a death for a Mary QUINN ex the Minerva, age 36 died Liverpool Hospital 2 Feb 1844 as per NSW SRO’s Convict Index. I cannot see a likely ECR at NSW BDM
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-convict-records/indexes-to-convict-records
Cheers, JM
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NSW SRO Applications to Marry
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchform.aspx?id=68&new=1
Have you looked at any earlier NSW marriages for brides surnamed QUIN/QUINN (and now I add a further variation KIRWIN ) that may then cause an impediment to formalising a 1840 NSW marriage?
22 Sept 1826, Rev Marsden, at P’tta, There is a Patrick GOGARTY (Daphne) aged 33 marrying Catherine QUIN or KIRWIN (ex Woodman) aged 27.
22 May 1829 Rev Marsden at P’tta There is a Peter SULLIVAN (Mangles 2) aged 35 marrying Margaret QUINN (Minerva 2) aged 30 (Margaret often abbreviated as Marg on official records, and thus often MIS-read by transcribers as Mary)
5 Feb 1830 Rev Marsden at P’tta There is a Thomas WILKINSON (born in Colony) aged 25, marrying Ann QUINN (Elizabeth 4) 21
Cheers, JM
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Quoting from earlier post :
08 Jun 1858, Kilmore, Colony of VIC
Thomas McCarthy (son)
My ancestor.
Mother: Mary Quin Ingram (?)
Age: 28
Born: Stafford, England
Thomas' birth certificate.
Question
May I please ask if you have you followed up the INGRAM clue and/or the Stafford England clue
Cheers, JM
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Another interesting hit was that of Martin Quin (Guildford 2) and Margaret Bergin (Elizabeth 2). They had a child Martin and a daughter, Mary Ann Quin who was born in 1827. I believe that both children were put in to the orphanage at some stage in the late 1820’s. (from the pdf part of pg 5 of 8 )
The NSW SRO and Ancestry have a current partnership with Ancestry uploading various images. I think I may have found a further Mary (Ann) Quinn, a daughter of Charles and Esther ;D of the 39th Regiment of Foot (I think they followed the 48th Regiment)
I :) read:
22 April 1832
To the Trustees of the Clergy and School Lands in the Colony of New South Wales
The humble Petition of Esther Quinn in behalf of Henry and Mary Ann Quinn sheweth that the said Henry and Mary Ann Queen are the Children of the Petitioner as by the annexed Certificates will appear.
That the petitioner is the Widow of the late Private Charles Quinn of the 39th Regiment of Foot and has three other children each of tender years to provide for
Your Petitioner therefore humbly prays that the said Henry and Mary Ann Quinn may be admitted into the Orphan School; and if this Prayer be granted your Petitioner herevy agrees that the said Henry and Mary Ann Quinn shall remain in the Orphan School so long as the said Trustees shall think fit, and that when of a proper Age shall be disposed of at their discretion as an Apprentice or Servant.
Esther Quinn her X mark
There is a note on the Admission File re Henry Quinn, he was aged 6 as at May 3rd (1832) …. Sept 6 1832 he quit the school. The note reads “Baptised at Hobart Town” and “To his Mother”.
I think this means that Henry was baptised at Hobart back when the 39th Regiment was stationed there. And that on Sept 6 1832, his Mother had Henry discharged back into her care.
Applications for Removal (from Orphan School)
2 September 1832 Parramatta.
Sir,
I most humbly beg Excuse for troubling your Honour in Troubling you with any Letter to get my Dear Child from the Male Orphans School Liverpool as he is at this time an object of Pity through grief I put him in at the time of his fathers Death when left alone with a small family about 4 months ago. Honored Gentlemen, I hope ye will take this in Consideration and allow me to get my Child from the School again, as I am married again to a man that left the same Regiment with my former Husband.
James Woodley a Boots and Shoe maker by trade and he has got a grant of land and is going to reside on it in a short time and he is very desirious to get this boy to give him a trade himself.
By your permission
The Late Mrs Quinn
At Present Mrs Woodley
Fingers and toes crossed ;D .... and :'( I have not found Mary Ann Quinn's discharge :'(
Cheers, JM
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTXW-WP5
Henricus Quinn, SON of Carols Quinn and Esther Coogan baptised 08 May 1825
https://familysearch.org/search cannot see one for Mary Ann Quinn dau of Esther
Cheers, JM
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Philip Street, Parramatta
2nd November (1831)
To the Venerable Archdeacon Broughton , Abott and the Honorable Committee of Superintendence of the Orphan School Establishments in the Colony of New south Wales
The Humber Petition of Martin and Margaret Quinn of Parramatta in the County of Cumberland.
Respectfully Sheweth
That your humble petitioners were at a period when absolute necessity compelled them (being Prisioners of the Crown) obliged to avail themselves of the indulgent Benevolence of the Hon(ora)ble Committee for the Admission of three children viz two boys (named Martin and William Quinn) into the Establishment at Liverpool) and one Girl (named Elizabeth Quinn) into the school at Parramatta for which bountiful kindness they entreat permission humbly to return their sincerest gratitude; and also respectfully beg leave to represent for the gracious consideration of the Hon(ora)ble Committee that by their united efforts assisted by the kindness of an all bountiful providence and aided by their having obtained their liberty; they are now in such circumstances as will enable them to afford them a sufficient and comfortable support, and also to devote their attention to their future welfare, by placing them in such a situation as will in due time enable them to provide for themselves. Under which impulse they humbly implore permission to request that they may be favored with such directions as will cause them to be restored to their parental care and protection for which they will (as in duty bound) ever since their sincerest gratitude.
Signed Martin Quinn and Margaret Quinn (two signatures, neither in the handwriting of the clerk who prepared the petition).
John Joseph THERRY certified on that petition “To certify that the petitioners are possessed of sufficient means to enable them to support and educate their Children. Sydney 31st Oct 1831”
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/therry-john-joseph-2722
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/broughton-william-grant-1832
So, from the above, I believe that Martin and Margaret QUINN were NOT parents to your Mary QUINN.
Cheers, JM
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Hmm ::) Going on your KERWIN possibility JM....
JAMES KERWIN MARRIED MARY A MACARTEY AT CB ST JOHNS PARRAMATTA
REF # V1847217 32C/1847
Neil
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Hmm ::) Going on your KERWIN possibility JM....
JAMES KERWIN MARRIED MARY A MACARTEY AT CB ST JOHNS PARRAMATTA
REF # V1847217 32C/1847
Neil
Well that gets a bride from a Macartey to a Kerwin ..... ummm..... I thought we wanted a Kewin bride to become a Macartey :) ::) I could well be wrong. Please put me back on track .... :)
Cheers, JM
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How many times have you seen the forenames switched around on the Registers JM ::) WOT if the priest had just confused the issue. They would have put their mark to anything :o
Neil
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Yes, so true Neil ..... and St Johns Parramatta C of E ummm ..... and St Johns where my own Gran was married with her Uncle conducting the ceremony.....
Cheers, JM
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Thank you all for your insights. I have most of the documentation with regards death certificates for John McCarthy senior and Mary Quinn junior and the birth certificates for their children (this is how I have been able to track them). I do think that John McCarthy junior was born in Forbes. I have his baptism certificate (registered in the Darling Downs/Moreton Bay district) which places his DOB as 05 Oct 1845 but his baptism as 09 Nov 1846. His sister, Clarinda was born in Queensland on 21 Jul 1847. After this, the next brother is born in Yass and the remainder on the gold fields in Victoria. I have a hunch that perhaps the family came to Queensland working for a squatter as this period is the "squatter" time in Queensland history. I have recently had an interesting hit for a John McCarthy (senior) who arrived in Sydney in 1841 on the ship Canton. His occupation is listed as carpenter. I don't know why this background would be kept hidden if this was my John McCarthy. So many variables before 1846. Either way, I do not believe John McCarthy Senior was born in Sydney around 1820 (no birth records or census hits). I am accepting that John McCarthy Senior and Mary Quinn junior did not get married. I look forward to further insights and guidance. I have slowly been working on this couple for two years now and are the last line I need to research and confirm to find out how all of my ancestors came to Australia. Karen
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Hi there,
Re the 1860 death cert.
Children of the Marriage:
I notice that there were 5 males and 1 female living and 3 males and 2 females deceased. As the informant was the husband of the deceased, this information ought to be fairly reliable. Have you found independent official sources to confirm those 11 un-named children ?
I notice that John McCARTHY’s address at that time was “on the road to Kiandra, District of Cooma”. I am fairly sure that District was the Police District. I also notice that Mary McCarthy’s death occurred at Warnbrook.
Death 21 August 1860 at Warnbrook in the District of Cooma, of Mary MC CARTHY, a female aged 34 years.
Mary died from Influenza, which she had endured for 10 days, without a Medico attending her.
The informant believed her father’s surname was a butcher, surnamed QUIN. He also believed her mother was Mary QUIN, but he did not know Mrs Quin’s nee name.
The informant was John Mc CARTHY, the husband of the deceased, and his then address I have already given in this post.
The death was registered at Cooma on 22 August 1860 by John James RYALL, apparently without that chap considering a need for any inquest (sudden death, no medico present). Under the NSW law, The funeral director was not permitted to conduct a burial without either a) a the civil registration process docket being provided (hence John James RYALL registering the death) or b) a burial order issued by a Coroner or at least a Justice of the Peace or a Police Magistrate for any sudden death without a Medico to certify cause of death.
The burial took place same day as the registration process was commenced. Robert KINDER was the Undertaker. The official witnesses were John Mc CARTHY and Mary QUIN. May I please note that if that Mary was John Mc Carthy’s mother in law, then she actually did NOT provide him with either the given name for his father in law (her husband) or her own nee name that he needed as the informant.
I notice that John McCARTHY was the father to 11 children with his wife Mary. Would you please type up their names and dates.
Do you have any NSW BDM certs for any civil registration of their births? (not the baptisms, but NSW civil birth registrations commence from March 1856) If so, from that civil registration, please type up all the details given by the informant when registering that birth. Do you have the youngest's birth cert (official transcription) .... :) :) what details were given for that child's older siblings on that official document please.
Thank you all for your insights. I have most of the documentation with regards death certificates for John McCarthy senior and Mary Quinn junior and the birth certificates for their children (this is how I have been able to track them).
Continuing on from that 1860 dc, John Mc Carthy believed that his wife was from Dublin, Ireland and that she had been in New South Wales for 30 years. As Victoria was hived off from NSW in 1851, then it would seem the couple and their children had NOT lived in Victoria. Queensland was hived off from NSW in December 1859. So I would expect to find their children were born in NSW. As mentioned earlier in this post, the dc shows The couple had 11 children, 5 males and 1 female were living when Mary died. 3 males and 2 females had not survived.
You should remove the NSW BDM death cert image that you have attached. It may well be a copyright issue.
May I also suggest that you can save some pennies by ordering official transcriptions rather than these "real deal" certificates. NSW BDM’s website actually gives the following info:
"Family history transcription agents provide full and partial transcriptions, or verification of details. A good idea if you only need the facts, and not full certified copies of certificates. …...”
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html#transcription
RChat thread about this too
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=399.0 leading to
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0 leading to http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
Cheers, JM
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Hi there,
Re John McCARTY, baptism 1846, parents as John and Mary.
Do you have the baptismal record for the John McCARTY baptised in 1846, as per NSW BDM Early Church Records reference Vol 63, line 2152 ? If so, from that document, when and where and what denomination for that ceremony, and the name of the Rev’d. Does it by any chance include the date of birth and/or the location?
Fingers crossed
PS, don't overlook checking your Martin and Margaret QUINN records, as I cannot find where they had a daughter named Mary. I can find their daughter Elizabeth and I can find the couple putting their children into the Orphans School, and I have typed up two transcriptions for TWO different QUIN/N families with children into the Orphans School around that era....
I suspect Mary is more likely to be the daughter of Charles and Esther QUINN rather than Martin and Margaret.... Perhaps Charles was like many in those Foot Regiments, may be he had a trade background on joining the regiment....
Cheers, JM
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I am wondering about the following birth in 1858 :)
Do you have a copy of the following NSW birth registration:
NSW BDM reference 7923
In 1858, William J CAHEY, son of John and Mary A, registered at Ipswich.
I can see that the Qld BDM have this birth on their index too. (# 1858/C1333)
Date of birth 11 Nov 1858, William J CAHEY, parents as John and Mary Ann (formerly FOY)
This is the only birth at Qld BDM that I have found for that surname in the period to 1900.
Cheers, JM
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I forgot to mention that the 1845 birth and the 1846 baptism are more likely to be pointing to a birth in and around the Mid north coast of NSW rather than to the central west of NSW.
You see, the town of FORBES is in the Central West (post code 2871) but FORBES RIVER is much closer to the Darling Downs.... the Forbes River (post code 2446) is no where near the town of Forbes.
John Oxley, NSW Surveyor General explored both areas, and HE gave the name CAMP HILL to the district we know as Forbes. He did not name that district Forbes.
The river "FORBES" was named by John Oxley, and it is not anywhere near that Camp Hill, on the Lachlan River. The river "Forbes" (ie the Forbes River) is part of the Hastings River System on the Mid North Coast.
Clear as mud ???
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/oxley-john-joseph-william-molesworth-2530
ADD
Would you please type up the info from that 1876 death cert for John McCarthy (23 May 1876, Duaringa) .... how many and what names for his children, and also where does it state that he was buried .... which cemetery, what denomination, etc...
Also does that dc mention Mary QUIN by name? And would you expect that the informant would have known her name?
Also, what relationship to the deceased was given on the DC by the informant?
Cheers, JM
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Maybe it's just me ??? But I cannot find one birth in Qld on the Register that looks vaguely like your McCarthy's. In the years 1840-1860.
In NSW I can find only John 1842, Charles 1848, Patrick 1849, Mary S 1850, James 1852.
In Victoria I can find a death of a Daniel McCarthy 1857 and the birth of a Thomas in 1858 both have the same parents John McCarthy and Mary (nee QUINN)
I can't even find a birth for a Daniel McCarthy.
Unless they are using various spellings could you maybe point me in the right direction as to the eleven children?
They must have been very slack in the registrations?
Neil ::)
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Hi JM. Thanks for the info. The original start to this thread outlines references to the births/baptisms/deaths of the children of John McCarthy and Mary Quinn. I have the original documentation. Thanks for the tip about the transcription service. I only found out about this when I joined the family history society early this year and the documents were ordered earlier than this. Once again, thank you so much for your assistance. Karen
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Neil - some of the certificates were recorded as McCarty.
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JM - also thanks about the information about Forbes. That would actually also fit a scenario. I will email death certificate details tomorrow. I have to shoot off now. Thanks so much. Karen
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hhh
JM - also thanks about the information about Forbes. That would actually also fit a scenario. I will email death certificate details tomorrow. I have to shoot off now. Thanks so much. Karen
I there
Please do NOT infringe copyright by attaching certificates. Please type up your own transcriptions instead.
Before we can help you we need your help .... so when you have a moment please do let us know the names (with the spelling variations) and details for those 10 older children who ought to be on Thomas's VIC birth cert.
I cannnot see how any mum who lived their colonial life in NSW (as per her husband in 1860) could give birth to children in Victoria... including your ancestor in 1858 ....... Your 1860 dc has that Mary nee QUIN as born Dublin ... the 39th regiment was in Ireland before its Australian tour so another clue to that Charles and Esther QUIN/N sighting I have found.
Perhaps you could check back carefully an compare the pdf with the posts on this thread please
Cheeers JM
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Birth:John McCarthy 1842 NSW
Birth:Charles McCarthy 1848 NSW
Birth:Patrick McCarthy 1849 NSW
Birth:Mary S McCarthy 1850 NSW
Birth:George McCarty 1851 Vic to John and Mary McCarty (no nee name)?
Birth:James McCarthy 1852 NSW
Birth:John McCarty 1854 Qld
Birth:Clara McCarty 1854 Qld
Death:Daniel MCarthy 1857 Vic
Birth:Thomas McCarthy 1858 Vic
9 Births and 1 Death Total
Now I realise that you have a lot of unpublished information and have been researching this family for many years, but...you did ask for help. I am trying to give it with as much accuracy as possible and from the veiwpoint of an interested observer with no real need to include dubious information.
If I am not helping or you have lost interest please say so and I will stop pestering you with worthless already held information.
Neil
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Re those 11 children on Mary’s 1860 NSW BDM death cert
I am developing a somewhat different list from yours Neil.
From NSW BDM online indexes ONLY …..
and like Neil, these are only INDEXES, so I do NOT hold the actual certificates.
ECR Baptisms (“V” Series)/Civil Births
1842, John McCARTHY, Vol 145 and Vol 61 (on Neil’s List)
1842 Mary McCARTHY, Vol 142
1842 Mary McCARTY Vol 145
1844 Jane McCARTHY Vol 145
1846 Elizabeth McARTHY Vol 31A & Vol 158
1846 John McCARTY, Vol 63
1847 Clara McCARTY Vol 64 (Neil’s List has 1854 and Qld)
1848 Charles McCARTHY Vol 65 (On Neil’s List)
1849 Catherine McCARTHY Vol 67
1849 Patrick McCARTHY, Vol 66 (On Neil’s List)
1850 Catherine McCARTHY, Vol 67
1850 Mary S McCARTHY, Vol 68 (On Neil’s List)
1852 James McCARTHY, Vol 121A (On Neil’s List)
1854 James McCAULY, Vol 71
1859 Mary McCARTHY Vol 142B
1859 Mary McCARTHY, Civil #8718 (Macleay River)
ECR Burials (V” Series)/Civil Deaths
1860 Florence McCARTHY, Civil #3183(Binalong)
NSW SRO http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids …. Short Guides are fantastic help for “anything” NSW particularly in the 19th Century.
So try these Short Guides:
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-2/short-guide-2 (Click onto the headings (Baptisms/Marriages/Deaths) for further info.
And
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4
And notice that Roman Catholic ECRs for Baptisms from 1840 to 1855 are in Volumes 61 to 72.
Also notice that Roman Catholic ECRs for Marriages from 1834 to 1856 are in Volumes 90 to 101
Also notice that Roman Catholic ECRs for Burials from 1840 to 1856 are in Volumes 114-120
Also a special reminder , If anyone is accessing those reels, (at NSW SRO or at other facilities using the Archives Resources Kit or otherwise) you are unable to actually get authorisation to take photocopies of those records, so take pencil and paper and transcribe the details directly in your own hand. If you require a copy of that actual record, you need to apply to the NSW BDM “in the usual way” and purchase the official record (which is NOT a digitised image).
“The Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages gave approval in accordance with the provisions of Section 14(6) of the Archives Act, 1960, that these records would be made available for public use from 1st February 1984. This approval was subject to the following conditions
that persons may access only the microfilm copy of the records contained in Registry Volume Numbers 1 to 162, and State Record volumes numbered 5/4219, 5/4221 and 5/3841, and may take note of any recorded details; and that any person requiring a copy of the actual record should apply to the Registry in the usual way as State Records may not issue any print or any other kind of photocopy from the microfilms.”
Neil,
Karen, our OP, mentioned earlier that she has the original documentation, but I have not yet been able to separate the pdf info into those 11 children mentioned on that dc.... so I gather you must be experiencing similar difficulties too.
I have attached a profile of both John McCarthy and Mary Quinn based on documents that I have acquired as well as perusing other researchers. What I am getting an impression of is that the family seemed to follow the various gold rushes in both Victoria and Queensland. .... I look forward to any assistance.
I have the original documentation.
I am sure that Karen will be back as soon as possible, .... as it is now that "tomorrow", today ;D
I will email death certificate details tomorrow. I have to shoot off now. Thanks so much. Karen
Cheers JM
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My only purpose in following these births/deaths is to find the correct John McCarthy/Various spellings and Mary Quin/Various spellings.
Neil ;)
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Possible Sydney baptism for the 5 year old lass who was admitted (April 1832) to the Female Orphan School after the death of her father.
Mary A QUIN, dau of Charles and Esther, baptism in 1827
NSW BDM Vol 125 Line 907; Vol 127 line 759 and in Vol 128 line 773.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
I wonder if she was the lass discharged from the Orphan School 14 Sept 1835 ?
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-education-and-child-welfare-records
Cheers, JM
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Thanks to all. Below is a transcription from Mary McCarthy's (nee Quinn) and John McCarthy's death certificate.
Date and place of death: 21 August 1860; Wambrook; District of Cooma
Name and Occupation: Mary McCarthy
Sex and Age: Female; 34 years
Cause of Death; Duration of last illness; Medical attendant; when last saw deceased: Influenza; 10 days; no medical attendant.
Name and occupation of father; Name and maiden surname of mother: --------Quin (butcher); Mary Quin
Informant: John McCarthy Husband; on the road to Kiandra; district of Cooma
Particulars of registration: John James Ryall; 22 Aug 1860; Cooma
When and where buried; name of undertaker: 22 Aug 1860; Cooma; Robert Kinber
Name and religion of Minister and names of witnesses of burial: John McCarthy; Mary Quin witnesses
Where born and how long in the Australasian Colonies or States: Dublin, Ireland; 20 years; New South Wales
Place of marriage, age, and to whom: Sydney; 1840; John McCarthy
Children of marriage: 5 males, 1 female living, 2 males, 2 females deceased
Date and place of death: 23 May 1876; Duaringa (QLD)
Name and Occupation: John McCarthy; Carpenter
Sex and Age: Male; 56 years
Cause of Death; Duration of last illness; Medical attendant; when last saw deceased: Slow fever; 7 weeks; no medical attendant.
Name and occupation of father; Name and maiden surname of mother: John McCarthy, Carpenter; and not known
Informant: Certified in writing by Martha McCarthy, daughter in law, Duaringa
Particulars of registration: Edmund ???rey; 2 June 1876, Banana
When and where buried; name of undertaker: 23 May 1876; Duaringa; John Battie(?)
Name and religion of Minister and names of witnesses of burial: Joseph Elliott; Roman Catholic service; witnesses Philip Holmes, John Campbell
Where born and how long in the Australasian Colonies or States: Sydney, NSW, 56 years
Place of marriage, age, and to whom: Sydney; 21 years; not known
Children of marriage: John (30yrs); Patrick (26yrs); Clara (25yrs); George (24yrs); James (20yrs); Thomas (16yrs);
Additionally, the only reference to other children on Thomas McCarthy's birth certificate is 5 boys, 1 girl and 4 boys and 3 girls deceased.
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Thanks to all. Below is a transcription from Mary McCarthy's (nee Quinn) and John McCarthy's death certificate.
Where born and how long in the Australasian Colonies or States: Dublin, Ireland; 20 years; New South Wales
Place of marriage, age, and to whom: Sydney; 1840; John McCarthy
Children of marriage: 5 males, 1 female living, 2 males, 2 females deceased
Hi there,
I am somewhat confused by your transcription for Mary's 1860 dc, please check the two snips I have attached.
I notice that there were 5 males and 1 female living and 3 males and 2 females deceased. As the informant was the husband of the deceased, this information ought to be fairly reliable.
Have you found independent official sources to confirm those 11 un-named children ? her mother was Mary QUIN, but he did not know Mrs Quin’s nee name. The official witnesses were John Mc CARTHY and Mary QUIN. May I please note that if that Mary was John Mc Carthy’s mother in law, then she actually did NOT provide him with either the given name for his father in law (her husband) or her own nee name that he needed as the informant.
John Mc Carthy believed that his wife was from Dublin, Ireland and that she had been in New South Wales for 30 years. As Victoria was hived off from NSW in 1851, then it would seem the couple and their children had NOT lived in Victoria.
Cheers,
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Date and place of death: 23 May 1876; Duaringa (QLD)
Name and Occupation: John McCarthy; Carpenter
Sex and Age: Male; 56 years
Cause of Death; Duration of last illness; Medical attendant; when last saw deceased: Slow fever; 7 weeks; no medical attendant.
Name and occupation of father; Name and maiden surname of mother: John McCarthy, Carpenter; and not known
Informant: Certified in writing by Martha McCarthy, daughter in law, Duaringa
Particulars of registration: Edmund ???rey; 2 June 1876, Banana
When and where buried; name of undertaker: 23 May 1876; Duaringa; John Battie(?)
Name and religion of Minister and names of witnesses of burial: Joseph Elliott; Roman Catholic service; witnesses Philip Holmes, John Campbell
Where born and how long in the Australasian Colonies or States: Sydney, NSW, 56 years
Place of marriage, age, and to whom: Sydney; 21 years; not known
Children of marriage: John (30yrs); Patrick (26yrs); Clara (25yrs); George (24yrs); James (20yrs); Thomas (16yrs);
You have your Ancestor as Thomas McCarthy, and that he was born 1858 at Kilmore, Victoria. Are you sure you have the right birth? There are a number of likely births on the index for Vic BDM…. And that 1876 Qld dc seems to be pointing to a 16 year old lad named Thomas so born 1859-1861 rather than 1858.
Assuming Mary who died at Cooma 1860 was the wife of John who died at Duaringa 1876, may I please ask :) who raised the children, :) including your ancestor Thomas ?
My puter is having a touch of the wobbles and is not currently getting Qld BDM to co-operate. So I cannot search to see if Mary QUIN, (the mother in law) may have died in Qld after raising her young grandchildren, including your ancestor Thomas.
Cheers, JM
Cheers, JM
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The death of John McCARTHY the son is listed on Qld BDM 1911 Ref # C3281 Country Qld.
The death that Karen points to is that of possibly the father John McCarthy in 1876 giving his age as 56 and born in NSW 1820. Ref # C1173
Neil
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Thanks Neil.
So that 1911 death is meant to tie up to that 1845 birth at Forbes NSW :) ??? and that 1911 death is meant to be for John who is the brother of Thomas who was born 1858 at Kilmore Vic. ???
Karen,
Did your Thomas marry? I am presuming so, :) From Thomas' marriage cert, what information did HE provide about his own parentage ..... This would be first hand information.
It would be worthwhile to also look at John 1845-1911 .... Did he marry? If so, what information did HE provide about his on parentage on his marriage cert..... This too would be first hand information, and may well be a tad more detailed than Thomas'.
Then you need to actually confirm that John who died in 1911 is the same chap as the one born 1845. And then you need to validate that your Ancestor was that chap's brother.
Also, Karen, I am still a tad confused for example where INGRAM comes into the picture .....
08 Jun 1858, Kilmore, Colony of VIC
Thomas McCarthy (son) My ancestor. Mother: Mary Quin Ingram (?)
Age: 28 Born: Stafford, England Thomas' birth certificate.
May I please ask if you have you followed up the INGRAM clue and/or the Stafford England clue
Cheers, JM
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Some answers to some questions that have been asked:
Mary Quin Ingram on Thomas’s birth certificate. There was a comment in the margin that I was unable to decipher. Courtesy of a fellow McCarthy researcher, this is an amendment that states that Mary Quin’s place of birth is Dublin, not Stafford.
With regards to Mary Quin Senior not listing the name of the father or her maiden name. I don’t know about why the maiden name is not recorded. The father’s occupation of butcher is interesting though. There is a record of an Edmond Quin in the 1828 census. His occupation is listed as butcher and he came out on the Mariner. He was living a Margaret who came out on the Lord Wellington (i.e. I cannot find a marriage record even though she was going by the surname Quin). I believe this to be Margaret Parsons, from Stafford – not Dublin. Two children are also listed – Daniel who I believe came out with Margaret and Ellen who was born in Sydney. Edmond Quin appears in the Sydney papers quite a bit – the most serious is the attempted rape of a female.
With regards to the other children – even though I have mentioned that I have been researching this branch for two years, I am also doing concurrent research on the rest of my family. In other words, I haven’t ordered transcriptions for all the children (or possibilities). I am a pre-separation Queenslander who is living in Queensland so I spend much of my time researching and utilising the resources that I currently have on hand at the Queensland State Archives or Queensland State Reference Library. I will eventually order more transcriptions to do a more detailed analysis on the family. My next order will be for Clara McCarthy's (John and Mary's daughter) marriage certificate/transcription. I am interested in John McCarthy's occupation as publican and who the witnesses were.
Mary Quin Senior death. Yes - one scenario I am working on is that Mary Quin Senior stayed with the family and continued to travel with them. From a personal point of view, it would make sense for her to assist with the rearing of her grandchildren therefore my focus for place of death in NSW or QLD. I have printouts of all of the options and I am working through the list to eliminate "not my Mary Quin".
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Information about Thomas McCarthy - son of Mary Quin and John McCarthy (as requested)! It is also a good family story but a tragedy.
As you know, Thomas was the youngest son of John and Mary and was born in Kilmore, Victoria on 08 June 1858. Other variations of Thomas’s birth place include Weddin Mountains and Lachlan River as recorded on his children’s birth records. Kilmore also pops up a couple of times. The family were making their way north when Mary McCarthy (nee Quin) died at Warnbrook(?) in the district of Cooma. Their address was listed as “on the road to Kiandra”. By 1876, the family were in Queensland as evident by John McCarthy’s death certificate. He died in Duaringa of slow fever. From here, Thomas appears to have followed the construction of the Queensland Central Railway and picked up work along the way. On 04 April 1880, Thomas married Annie Gallagher at the Emerald Terminus Central Railway and their address was listed as 10 Mile Camp. These Mile Camps appear to be “shanty” towns that housed workers temporarily during the construction of the railway. Annie’s father was also a labourer for the construction of the railway. All of these facts lead me to make the assessment that Thomas was also following the work created by the railway construction.
Thomas and Annie had several children but of note obviously is my great grandmother Elizabeth who was born on 04 May 1882. She was born on 04 Apr 1881 under the name of Clara. I have made this assessment based on the next birth certificate for another girl named Clara but the name of the first child was now Elizabeth. Following the birth records of those children that I have been able to track down the family headed north, appearing to follow the railway construction for a while. Tragedy struck on 09 Oct 1888 with the death of Thomas’s wife, Annie. She died during child birth at Mackunda hotel, Mackunda Creek (basically near the gulf country), QLD. This left Thomas with three surviving children – Elizabeth, Clara and William.
It is hear that the story gets interesting. The family story was that Thomas was unable to cope with raising three children (they were 8, 7 and 1 ½ years old at the time) and that he dumped them at an orphanage. He was never heard of again. The true story is quite more tragic. Thomas and his family ended up at a station just north of Cloncurry (near Canobie). I found an interesting newspaper article in the Brisbane Courier dated 21 Oct 1890. It states that the police from Cloncurry station were investigating the suicide of Thomas McCarthy. He apparently told his wife (it turns out that he was living with a Flora Dunn – no marriage record exists) that he was going out to shoot himself – which he did. The article is quite graphic in its detail, outlining how he shot himself. Thomas’s death certificate states cause of death as “death by shooting”. It is interesting to note that Thomas shot himself on 13 Oct 1890, not long after the two year anniversary of Annie’s death.
I have records from the Cloncurry watch house of when Elizabeth, Clara and William were housed there before they were transferred to Townsville Orphanage. They were then transferred down to Meteor Park Orphanage near Rockhampton. From here, I know that my great grandmother was farmed out to work for at least two different people. She met her future husband, William Searle, at Rockhampton and they then had my grandmother.
Hope that this is of some use. Karen
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Hi there,
I apologise if you find my post somewhat too direct, however your posts are becoming very confusing for me.
I am not able to follow how you have formed the view that your Thomas McCarthy was the son of John McCarthy and Mary Quin.
You see,
when you write “As you know, Thomas was the youngest son of John and Mary and was born in Kilmore, Victoria on 08 June 1858” errrr ..... ummmmm ...... errrrr :) I actually do NOT know any of that information.
I have actually discreetly attempted more than once to question if that would be the correct birth cert for YOUR Thomas.
Please re-read the thread.
So, my direct questions are
Q 1 …. Do you have the marriage cert for your Thomas. If so, would you please carefully transcribe that certificate, paying particular attention to how the clergyman recorded the details that Thomas provided to that clergyman when being interviewed prior to the marriage.
I am looking for the information as recorded on that mc. At the moment, I am not concerned with any information you have sourced from any other document or collaboration.
So from Thomas’ marriage certificate, (no where else, just that cert) what information is recorded for
a) The BDM reference no. for the cert.
b) Date of the marriage ceremony
c) Place where the ceremony was conducted
d) Thomas’ full names and surname
e) Thomas’ conjugal condition (bachelor/widower/divorcee)
f) Thomas’ birth place
g) Thomas’ occupation
h) Thomas’ age
i) Thomas’ usual place of residence
j) Thomas’ father’s names
k) Thomas’ father’s occupation
l) Thomas’ mother’s names
m) Thomas’ mother’s former and/or maiden names
n) Thomas’ bride’s full names and surname
o) Thomas’ bride’s conjugal condition (spinster/widow/divorcee)
p) Thomas’ bride’s birth place
q) Thomas’ bride’s occupation
r) Thomas’ bride’s age
s) Thomas’ bride’s usual place of residence
t) Thomas’ bride’s father’s names
u) Thomas’ bride’s father’s occupation
v) Thomas’ bride’s mother’s names
w) Thomas’ bride’s mother’s former/and or maiden names
x) The denomination
y) The name of the clergyman
z) The name of the witnesses
aa) If I missed anything, please transcribe that also.
And Q 2 ….. you have a birth certificate for a chap named Thomas McCarthy and it has that chap’s parents as John McCARTHY and Mary Quin INGRAM as per your pdf. You are now mentioning that this cert has been amended. My question is another series of sub-questions about that birth certificate
a) Who amended it
b) When was it amended
c) Is the copy you hold, one you purchased directly from Victoria BDM or is it one that has been shared around any thus is it possible that the amendment is actually NOT an authorised change approved by both the parents to that baby whose birth was registered in 1858?
d) Date of birth (as recorded on the document)
e) Place of birth (yep, all the following is as recorded on the document)
f) Name of the father of the baby
g) Name of the mother of the baby, including former and/or maiden names
h) Father’s occupation
i) Mother’s occupation
j) Father’s age
k) Mother’s age
l) Date and Place of the marriage of those parents
m) Previous children of that marriage, noting living or deceased
n) Was the baby presented to the registrar when the birth was being registered (present or not present)
o) Who was the informant, what was their address, and their description (relationship to the baby !)
p) Did the informant sign or make their X mark
q) Who were the witnesses
r) When was the birth registered and where was it registered
s) If I missed anything, please transcribe that too
Many Cheers, JM (We reside at Nords Wharf, NSW, yes there are bush fires around. We self evacuated at around 2am this morning, we are safe with relatives in a nearby suburb)
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JM - I hope that you are safe and well. I am trying to answer as many questions as I can from various people that are posting information but I am struggling to keep up. I am away for the weekend but will make contact early next week. Once again, I hope that you and your family are safe and well.
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Sorry to all if the start to my post about Thomas McCarthy implied that you all knew the information. This was me just being lazy and cutting and pasting an email that I sent to my Family History Society for a brick wall meeting about John McCarthy and Mary Quin. Just thought that I would clarify.
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Thanks for clarifying. It helps to untangle the confusion somewhat.
Please please please do NOT proceed back earlier than your Thomas McCarthy until you KNOW for certain that is him on that 1858 birth certificate. Even then, please please please DO NOT be persuaded that the Mary McCarthy's death at Cooma in 1860 was the death of his Mum, and even then, please please please realise that it is VERY unlikely that the Mary QUIN, witness to the burial was that Mary McCarthy's own Mum. Surely if that witness was Mum for the deceased, then the full given names for the deceased DAD and the nee name for Mary QUIN (witness) would be noted on that dc, if not by the informant, at least BY THE FUNERAL DIRECTOR. As it is, the witness Mary QUIN could be a spinster cousin, a sister in law, an auntie, or other relative to the deceased, or simply just a friend with same name ;D I personally have TWO friends both with the same Christian name as me and both with the same surname as each other, and that surname is the same as my married surname. We THREE are not related, and nor would we need to be, to attend a funeral TOGETHER.
I do trust and hope your family history group's 'brick wall meeting' continues to support and further develops good researching habits for all its members. I am confused by the thought that any fh group would want to encourage any member to go back a generation without first sorting through every bit of information on your Thomas' marriage cert, and investigating the original church records to confirm the details on that cert.
I am very doubtful that the 1860 Cooma death is associated with your Thomas. I am also wary of the 1858 Vic birth, as you are now mentioning Weddin Mountains and The Lachlan River. This of course are localities in the central west of NSW, hundreds of miles from Kilmore, Victoria..... ::)
Sorry to all if the start to my post about Thomas McCarthy implied that you all knew the information.
Sorry for being pedantic, but it did not imply that we all knew, it actually expressly read that we knew
As you know, Thomas was the youngest son of John and Mary and was born in Kilmore, Victoria on 08 June 1858.
Cheers, JM
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I found an interesting newspaper article in the Brisbane Courier dated 21 Oct 1890. It states that the police from Cloncurry station were investigating the suicide of Thomas McCarthy. He apparently told his wife (it turns out that he was living with a Flora Dunn – no marriage record exists) that he was going out to shoot himself – which he did. The article is quite graphic in its detail, outlining how he shot himself. Thomas’s death certificate states cause of death as “death by shooting”. It is interesting to note that Thomas shot himself on 13 Oct 1890, not long after the two year anniversary of Annie’s death.
Re the death for a Thomas McCARTHY 13 October 1890, in Country Queensland.
The QLD BDM ref C1077 as per online Index…. The entry for that Thomas McCARTHY does NOT include any details for that chap’s parentage. This suggests to me that the death cert does NOT include any information about his parentage at all.
May I please ask "how come" you have Mary QUIN as mum for your Thomas McCARTHY?
Cheers, JM
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Birth:John McCarthy 1842 NSW
Birth:Charles McCarthy 1848 NSW
Birth:Patrick McCarthy 1849 NSW
Birth:Mary S McCarthy 1850 NSW
Birth:George McCarty 1851 Vic to John and Mary McCarty (no nee name)?
Birth:James McCarthy 1852 NSW
Birth:John McCarty 1854 Qld
Birth:Clara McCarty 1854 Qld
Death:Daniel MCarthy 1857 Vic
Birth:Thomas McCarthy 1858 Vic
9 Births and 1 Death Total
Now I realise that you have a lot of unpublished information and have been researching this family for many years, but...you did ask for help. I am trying to give it with as much accuracy as possible and from the veiwpoint of an interested observer with no real need to include dubious information.
If I am not helping or you have lost interest please say so and I will stop pestering you with worthless already held information.
Neil
The Above birth has John McCarthy & Mary Quinn as mother. "Two N's"
Neil
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Birth:Thomas McCarthy 1858 Vic
.....
The Above birth has John McCarthy & Mary Quinn as mother. "Two N's"
Neil,
Is that the same birth that our OP has? I am not yet convinced that that 1858 Vic birth has anything to do with the 1860 death at Cooma. Vic BDM REF # 6008. My online index has the surname for the mum as QUIN (one 'n') IF you are considering the cert #6008. I am not concerned about whether there is one or two 'n' in the surname. You see, according to the pdf, Thomas' mum's surname is INGRAM, as in Mary Quin INGRAM.
I find it sooooooooo confusing that the online index for that 1858 Vic birth cert makes NO mention of the surname INGRAM for that Thomas' mum. Way back at the early part of this thread, Dundee raised a query re that pdf :
Hi Kazwhell,
What is going on here?
08 Jun 1858, Kilmore, Colony of VIC
Thomas McCarthy (son) death certificate
My ancestor. Father: John McCarthy; Profession: Carpenter;
Age: 40; Born: Sydney, NSW
08 Jun 1858, Kilmore, Colony of VIC
Thomas McCarthy (son) death certificate
My ancestor.
Mother: Mary Quin Ingram (?)
Age: 28
Born: Stafford, England
I just worked it out, it is Thomas' birth certificate.
Debra :)
Our OP confirmed that it was a typo, and it was meant to be for the birth cert for Thomas.
Yep - typo. Birth certificate is correct. Trouble with cutting and pasting. I am descended from Thomas McCarthy and Annie Gallagher's daughter Elizabeth McCarthy who married my great grandfather William Searle.
So, IF I am joining the dots then
:) there was a chap named Thomas McCarthy who married a lass named Annie GALLAGHER in 1880 (Oops, adding in QLD).
:) Their daughter Elizabeth (adding, if born Qld, perhaps 1882, with mother indexed as Annie SHEARIN) married William SEARLE (adding if in Qld likely 1905 )
:) So William and Elizabeth SEARLE are great grandparents for our OP.
:) So Thomas and Annie would be the great great grandparents for our OP.
:) As we are meant to be looking for the parents for the lady who died at Cooma in 1860, then we are looking for the great great great great grandmother of our OP,
:) Our OP has one set of g g g g grandparents as perhaps Mary QUIN (one or two 'n') ;D a witness at a funeral for a Mary McCARTHY in 1860 at Cooma. (adding who the OP has as mum to Thomas ;D )
:) The 1860 Cooma death cert for Mary McCarthy, a married woman, has that lady as a daughter of a Mr QUIN, a butcher and Mary (Quin, nee/former surname/s unknown).
;D ;D ;D I must be positively ancient, born after WWII, young enough to have obtained my drivers licence at 17 and had red P plates for 12 months ::) ::) ..... and yet my late Gran (no greats, but she was great) who was very much involved in raising me was actually born years before Thomas married Annie in 1880 ::) ::) . My Gran most likely read that Brisbane Courier reporting the tragic death of a Thomas McCarthy in Oct 1890 on the day it was published.... ;D
Cheers, JM
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Hi
May I put in my 2c worth?
The Mary Ann and Henry Quinn referred to in MAJM's post (being put into the orphanage in NSW, children of Charles and Esther Quin/Quinn) are in my family tree and from my research there's no relation to the original poster's family tree.
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Hi
I would like to put my 2c worth
Clara and John Mccarthy/McCarty were baptized and born at Ipswich Darling Downs John 1845 Clara 1st Oct 1847 name not Clarinda don't know where that came from .Clara had all information on her marriage cert.Parents John Mccarthy ditto under bridegrooms fathers occ.I think it was meant to be Publican like mother Mary Quinn Publican .My believe is John was given land by ballot Ipswich where he built a pub now I have no proof in this only the land ballot.This thread is very hard to follow Clara is my GG grandmother
silky.
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They were Roman catholics
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Hello all,
Has anyone checked the NSW pre 1856 BDM films for verification on the McCARTHY and QUINN children at all?
All the ones listed on the birth indexes (internet) do not belong to them as the mothers have a different maiden name.
Some record mum as nee Quin, Quinn or just Mary McCarthy/McCarty.
I am helping a relative of whose direct line is from these parents; also, by the way, son George was not registered as George Daniel on his birth/baptism certificate, just plain old George.
For volumes after 123 you need to contact the Registrar of BDM's in Sydney as these and others not listed are on file there.
My great aunt Rosa Eliza nee CAMPENELLA (alias Theresa Elizabeth CAMPANELLA) married their grandson Daniel McCarthy in 1907 in Rockhampton, Qld.
I see some have done some homework, even though the births on some records have just Darling Downs in the county of Stanley, says nothing about born in Ipswich.
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Hi Christiane
my husband is a descendant of John McCarty/Mcarthy and Mary Quinn can you help me with the family tree if you post a couple of times you can Private message me.I do have Marys death cert.I think I have Johns death will check but daughter Clara is his great great grandmother.thank you
silky
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Hi again
I have Clara and Johns birth certs born Ipswich.I have always wondered if there are 2 lots of Mary Quins and John Mccarthy.The posts are very confusing to me. ???
silky
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Hi All Mccarthy followers
sorry when I looked up the births it only has Darling downs for John and Clara but where I got Ipswich from is the marriage of Clara Mccarthy to William Faux 1863 aged 16yrs.Forbes NSW
Now it has father Farmer I think its hard to understand but it just has ditto after his name above that it has Williams father farmer.Mary Quinn publican....By rights it should have deceased .So is that made up why I don't know.Or is this a different family.???? ???
I noticed that one person has John and Clara born a different time.Also on Johns Mccarthy's death cert Clara is 25yrs she should be 29yrs...
I have always questioned this... why is Clara at Forbes at the age of 16yrs is she with her father ?or grandmother ? some relative ?at marriage Clara was 16 and William 30... 12th June 1863 and she took on looking after a family after Williams defacto Ellen Dawson died.He had at least 3 children to Ellen and 2 by Clara their names were Clara and Annie..never been able to find the deaths of Annie or mother Clara. Annie and Clara Faux were born at Murrumbidgerie station where William worked for many years also at Dundullimal Dubbo. Annie Faux married William Jones ...
silky
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Hi there,
Re the 1863 NSW marriage of William FAUX and Clara MACCARTHY registered in the Forbes district.
The requirement to show on a NSW BDM Marriage registration if a parent was known to be deceased was NOT in place until early in the 20th Century. Some clergy did provide the info in the years prior, but it was NOT a requirement.
Cheers, JM
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Hi
yes I have been researching for over 30 yrs and find certificates have wrong information made by clergy and family some just guess some stricken by grieve are not thinking straight therefore mistakes are made.I have also found that names can be spelt many ways like Mccarthy /Mccarty/Maccarthy clearly on marriage it is Mccarthy and mother Mary Quinn 2 N's.
Clara could not write signed with a X William Faux signed his name.The way I read the certificate is that Williams father occupation was not given then not given was scratched out and above is farmer written after and I think the ditto for John Mccarthy was for the not given .If that makes sense .I have studied it and tried to make sense of it I don't think he was a farmer and his wife a publican . silky
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NSW ER 1870 THE BOGAN
In the Dubbo Police District
William FAUX, of Murrumbidgerie, residence, Macquarie River
William FAUX, of Bens Creek, residence Talbragar River
NONE with that surname listed in the Forbes police district in that electorate.
NSW ER 1870 THE LACHLAN
In the Forbes Police district
NONE with the surname FAUX, however, there is the following listing which may be of interest.
William FAUL, of Emu Creek Gold Field, residence, Emu Creek Gold Field.
The rolls in that era were prepared by police deputised by the Police Magistrates, and they recorded the information in long hand BEFORE sending it off to the printers. It is entirely possible, and logical, that there has been a mis-read or a mis-recording of FAUX v FAUL.
The Forbes Police district stretched across more than one electorate :)
Cheers, JM
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Hi yes Murrumbidgerie station is on the Macquarie river. I have been there it was a cobb and co station many years ago.The Faux girls all got married in Dubbo .I did find William on a electoral roll in later years (cant think of year of hand) he was a labourer at Dundullimal Dubbo.It was a newspaper report.
silky
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Hi Jm
could that be Beni Creek because I once found an old map that had a land grant to William Faux at Beni a place close to Dubbo.
silky
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Did you notice that in 1870 in the BOGAN electorate, there were two listings for a William FAUX, so it is actually possible that there were two chaps by that name in that district at the same time ..... To me that possibility needs to be considered and not eliminated, particularly as you seem to have your William's signature .....
Cheers, JM
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William FAUX, of Murrumbidgerie, residence, Macquarie River
William FAUX, of Bens Creek, residence Talbragar River
Hi Jm
could that be Beni Creek because I once found an old map that had a land grant to William Faux at Beni a place close to Dubbo.
silky
NO. I have typed Bens as that is the word displayed in the printed document.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talbragar_River
http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=210033&cmd=sp
http://images.maps.nsw.gov.au/pixel.htm historic parish maps
Cheers, JM
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Hi
have found a Beni Creek that runs into the Talbragar on Google ... Beni is 13 K's from Dubbo I do know that a descendant of William and Clara still lives in that area of Beni. I couldn't find any Bens Creek Talbragar River.Thank you for all your help
silky
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Yes, I am well aware of Beni, on the Golden Highway, been through there many times. However, I type the words I read and I typed from a printed form.
Two chaps by name of William FAUX in the 1870s in the Central West of NSW
NSW ER 1878 THE BOGAN
In the Dubbo Police District
William FAUX, of Lahy’s creek, residence, Talbragar River.
In the Forbes Police District
William FAUX of Melrose, residence, Melrose
Cheers, JM
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Hi yes Murrumbidgerie station is on the Macquarie river. I have been there it was a cobb and co station many years ago.The Faux girls all got married in Dubbo .I did find William on a electoral roll in later years (cant think of year of hand) he was a labourer at Dundullimal Dubbo.It was a newspaper report.
silky
NSW ER 1903 ROBERTSON
polling at Beni
There were just 92 people enrolled to vote at the Beni polling place. None had the surname FAUX or similar.
None had the surname WHITE or similar, and none had the given name Clara.
ADD none had the surname BAKER or similar, and none had the surname BUYERS or similar
polling at Murrumbidgerie
There were just 164 people enrolled to vote at the Murrumbidgerie polling place. None had the surname FAUX or similar.
None had the surname WHITE or similar, and none had the given name Clara.
ADD none had the surname BAKER or similar, and none had the surname BUYERS or similar
(ADD NSW BDM Online index has registered in the Dubbo district : Clara FAUX marrying Samuel WHITE in 1885; Helen FAUX marrying George BAKER in 1879 and Rose FAUX marrying Robert BUYERS in 1885, I have not checked further for any later changes to the surnames those possible sisters) .
Cheers, JM
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Hi yes Murrumbidgerie station is on the Macquarie river. I have been there it was a cobb and co station many years ago.The Faux girls all got married in Dubbo .I did find William on a electoral roll in later years (cant think of year of hand) he was a labourer at Dundullimal Dubbo.It was a newspaper report.
silky
Here's a newspaper report .... The Dubbo Liberal and Macquarie Advocate of Saturday 26 May 1894. It is a list of men in the Dubbo division who have NOT YET APPLIED for the documents entitling them to vote at the next general election....
FAUX, William, Dundulimal, labourer.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/72468751
and there's this one
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/72469799 Dubbo Liberal etc 29 September 1894 .... list of Names OBJECTED TO .....
511 FAUX William Dundullimal labourer
Cheers, JM
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Hi Jm
they may not be on rolls but they were certainly at the Dubbo Wellington district you don't have to look any further for Bakers Buyers Whites or Fauxs as I have all information BDM certificates of all families its really the John Mccarthy who is the problem how did he get here?what ship ?Have met many descendants of Clara and William Faux.Also of John and Mary Mccarthy have travelled many miles in doing that over the 30 years.William Faux is believed to have been in a grave at Murrumbidgerie that got washed away in a flood on the banks of the Macquarie River.Told by a descendant . silky
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Hi
Clara and Annie Faux were born in Dubbo Clara on Murrumbidgerie station and no reg for Annie but marriage has born Murrumbidgerie Dubbo .
silky
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I'm back again,
Here is what I have from the NSW pre 1856 films, volumes 1 to 123 we have in our local Family History Centre.
Dad John McCarthy was a carpenter as stated on some of the records (Roman Catholics they were).
****John MCARTY born 5 Oct 1845 baptised 9 November 1845, residence was Darling Downs. (he died 28 Oct 1911 in Qld).
****Clara MCARTY born 21 Jul 1847, baptised 1 Oct 1847, residence was Darling Downs.
****Patrick MCCARTHY born 10 Aug 1849, baptised 21 Aug 1849, residence was Yass.
****George (alias George Daniel) MCCARTY born 9 Jun 1851, baptised 10 Jun 1851, residence was Kilmore, registered in NSW. One of his sons, Daniel, married my great aunt Rosa Eliza nee CAMPENELLA (she was recorded on her birth certificate as this spelling of her maiden name, alias Theresa Elizabeth CAMPANELLA) and they had only 2 sons.
****Charles MCCARTHY born 23 Mar 1848, baptised 6 Apr 1848, residence was Wollongong.
Any others would be on the other films of which you all need to verify from the NSW BDM Registry office in Sydney.
****Thomas MCCARTHY born Kilmore Victoria registration number 6008, died in Qld 13 Oct 1890 registration number 001077, parents as John and Mary nee Quinn.
****Dad John.....nil birth/baptism found in NSW, Victoria or Qld may not have been registered, as a lot of people were never registered in the early years in all of the states.
Hope this helps some of you, and I never got to meet my great aunt Rosa or her hubby Daniel, he died in 1953, a year after I was born.
bye for now and happy hunting.
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Hi everyone
it had me stumped with the 2 William Faux's in western area at once but then it came to me Williams son William John born 1856 so 1878 he would be 22yrs so would be other William faux.
silky
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I realise this is an old thread, but I've just come across one possibility for Mary Quinn that others might also like to research. Mary's death certificate said she died in 1860 at the age of 34, that she was born in Dublin and had been in Australia for 30 years.
An Eleanor Quan was transported from Tipperary in 1836. With her on board was a 41/2 yr old female child. I haven't been able yet to establish the child's first name, but so far it's the closest I've come to finding a child near the right age. It would, however, mean that if this was Mary, she had her first child John at the age of about 13.
Amusingly, Eleanor is described as having a cast in her right eye - my sister and I both have this problem, but of course this proves nothing.
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Hi dawn
you may have something there haven't done much on Mary for quiet awhile .Thanks
silky ;)
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silky, I'll keep searching when I get time, but if you come across anything more I'd be fascinated to hear. John, their first son, is my gt grandfather.
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Hi All
thank goodness for DNA proves all my research was right all Faux descendants on my husbands DNA matches and a few Mccarthy's and Quinn.I do advise the descendant of Thomas Mccarthy to do it will prove one way or another and yes Dawn Cleary is on his match..
silky
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Eleanor QUAN arrived per the vessel Thomas Harrison on 9 June 1836 to Sydney. Her paperwork gives that she was born Tipperary County, a married woman, husband named as Lawrence BALDWIN, and that she was aged 30, Roman Catholic, had one female child,
She had been tried at Tipperary in March 1835, at the Spring Assizes. Her sentence was for stealing carpenters tools, butter etc. And the sentence was 7 years. She had no previous convictions.
Her child was onboard with her and aged 4 ½ years. She received her Ticket of leave in 1840 #1810 and her Certificate of Freedom in 1843 #647. She stood 5 ft and ¼ inch, pale complexion, dark brown hair, hazel and speckled eyes.
Her husband (Lawrence BALDWIN) had arrived per the Java in 1833.
Likely the daughter's surname would be BALDWIN.
JM