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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Phil Goater on Thursday 17 October 13 17:07 BST (UK)
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Maria Elsie Shindehutte Parker (known as Elsie) found her way from London to work at Knowle House in Frant for the Hamilton Grace family where she met her husband. She was married in 1923. I understand that she was working as a nanny. Can anyone shed any light on how she came to work there?
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At a guess she would have been selected from adervtisements placed around the country. She may have received a personal recommendation from an earlier employer. Those seem to be the two ways I know about from that period
Rob
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Thanks Rob. Is it likely in that period that she would have received training somewhere before taking up such a position? Another question concerns the demise of the very young Raymond Hamilton-Grace in 1918. I understand that that was unfortunate and possibly led to Elsie's engagement. Are there any local newspaper reports of the event?
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I dont think so. Nannies today don't have any formal training so I doubt they would have back then
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I dont think so. Nannies today don't have any formal training so I doubt they would have back then
I'm not sure Norland Nannies would agree with you. They've been in operation since 1892, and are respected world-wide, and are highly valued ;)
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Thank you for replying Rob and thank you Mrs Tenacious for confirming what I half remembered. I'm sure i've seen something on the box about the training of nannies in the past. The question now is at what age would the nannies have been trained. I've been advised that Elsie was taken on to tend the two children and was around at the time of Raymond's premature demise in 1918. She would have been about 16 at that time.
Thanks again
Phil
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At a guess she would have been selected from adervtisements placed around the country. She may have received a personal recommendation from an earlier employer. Those seem to be the two ways I know about from that period
Rob
From the little I've read or learnt about that time, this is quite likely considering Maria's family background. She may not have received any formal training.
What leads you to believe the death of Raymond Sheffield Hamilton-Grace Jr (aged 3) in 1918 led to her engagement and subsequent marriage to Frank Sivyer in 1923? (Searching the records shows his father (who he was named after) died in WW1 1915.)
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Ah, Mrs T that was a false assumption concerning her engagement - she was working there at the time of young Raymond's death. It would appear to be a fairly safe bet that that is where she met her future husband who came from a more local family and worked as the family chauffeur. The key issue is what led her to work there in the first place and that remains a bit of a mystery. Perhaps it may be possible to trace an advert for the position in a London newspaper of the period which would add more weight to the likelihood that she found it that way. Her father was in the jewellery business and it's possible I suppose that the Hamilton-Graces met the family that way.
Regards,
Phil
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You're possibly right on both counts Phil - she either answered an advert or found her way there via word-of-mouth/personal contact.
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I am new to this site and finding it a bit confusing. My message is about Knowle House Frant. I recommend The Girl from Station X by Elisa Seagrave. It is about her mother's life and covers something of the story of Raymond Hamilton-Grace who died in 1918 aged 3.
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Thank you Sporadic! That relates to my thread 'Knowle House, Frant' on the Kent message board where I was investigating a friend's family history. I've pointed the moderator in that direction. Does the book mention the young Elsie?
Phil
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Hello Sporadic,
Welcome to RootsChat ;D
I have just attached your reply to Phil's thread.
Regards
Sarah
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Not by name but it certainly gives a picture of the family and household around that time. I was reading the book, googled Frant to find out where it was and your post came up, which lead me to registering with Rootschat. I have been sporadically researching my family history and was interested to discover this site.
Joyce
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I think Elsie is mentioned in Elisa Segrave's book...I remember stumbling over the Elsie, Elise, Elisa similarity. You probably have found it by now given the time lapse, but I will let you know the page if I find it again. Elisa seems to have a stash of diaries from her mother, Anne. Not all entries are in the Girl from Station X, I feel. She may also have notes from her grandmother, Gladys Hamilton Grace, who would have probably hired Elsie. Have you tried "The Lady?" An eminent source for 'help' back then too, or Debretts - there's a contact in the acknowledgements. Elisa Segrave I'm sure can be contacted through her website or publisher. She is often at the Annual Bletchley Veteran's Day event in September. Good Luck! PS: Bletchley is well worth a visit.