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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Revolution on Sunday 27 October 13 03:26 GMT (UK)
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Hi All
One of my ancestors was named Thomas Halbert. He claimed to have been from Newcastle upon Tyne and was born about 1806. He landed in New Zealand aboard a whaling ship in 1832. I have a trove of information about his time in New Zealand but wanted to find more about his life and family in the United Kingdom. The problem has been that in New Zealand one source of information has been used by subsequent researchers as "fact" for books and no one has made any attempts to verify any of it. I believe the research which was done prior to the internet made linkages which are not correct. There is little to substantiate those claims. A summary of those family linkages can be found here:
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1h4/halbert-thomas
There is mention of a brother of Thomas named James and also mentions of Thomas parents, however, more recent research seems to indicate these are not family linkages.
Recently, I employed a very good UK based researcher to examine these linkages and to try and provide me with some more accurate information about Thomas Halbert.
The summary of the report to me about Thomas is below. Are you able to look through the information and see something I have overlooked? Are there any other linkages you think I should explore?
The report is as follows:
All searches undertaken were for ‘Halbert’ and surname variants, ie ‘Hulbert’, etc.
1. Thomas HALBERT
I believe Thomas Halbert was baptised on 25 Dec 1814 at St Mary’s, Gateshead, England (literally just opposite Newcastle upon Tyne on the banks of the River Tyne). Copy of baptism entry attached
The baptism entry shows he was born on 8 July 1806 (sadly, no place of birth is given)
The baptism entry shows that his parents were Thomas & Sarah Halbert of Gateshead. Thomas (snr)’s occupation is shown as ‘tailor’
2. Using the above-mentioned parents, I have searched English and Scottish records for possible siblings of Thomas Halbert, sadly without success.
3. I have also searched English and Scottish records for the possible marriage of a Thomas Halbert to a ‘Sarah’ between 1750 and 1820, again without success. Similarly, I have not, as yet, located a death/burial in respect of either parent.
Note:
Also baptised on the same day as Thomas Halbert was a Sarah Halbert who had been born on 6 Oct 1814. Her parents were John (a cork cutter) and Dorothy Halbert of Gateshead.
I wondered whether it was just a coincidence that there were 2 Halbert baptisms on the same day but as Thomas had been born some years earlier, I wondered whether the two sets of parents were related (perhaps both fathers – Thomas and John were brothers) and had decided both of the children should be baptised together. I kept this in mind during the course of my research.
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Looking further at your initial notes, I undertook searches for possible parents of Thomas Halbert with the names Robert and Mary.
I searched for a Thomas Halbert born about the same time period but whose parents were Robert & Mary. Sadly, there were no relevant results. The nearest I found were a Robert & Janet (nee Brown) Halbert who had a son, Thomas, born in 1825 in Scotland (too late to be yours). A copy of my findings is attached (which shows other children born to this couple, including a James and a Janet). The couple married on 27 May 1809 in Ayr, Scotland. I believe their son, James, born in 1821 arrived in Australia in 1838, aged 18 years (copy attached for info).
There was also a Thomas & Mary (nee Hart) Halbert who had children by the names of Thomas and Janet, born in 1816 and 1812 respectively in Ayr, Scotland. There was, however, no son by the name of James (a copy of my findings is attached).
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Other searches in Scotland located a James & Joan (nee Wilson) Halbert who had children by the names of Janet and James however they were not born until 1842 and 1854 respectively (copy attached for info).
Searches for possible travel to Australia/New Zealand again drew a blank.
Now at a loss as to what to do next, I decided to look in general for Halbert individuals born/baptised or buried in either Northumberland (which covered Newcastle upon Tyne) or Durham (which covered Gateshead), England. A copy of my findings is attached in ‘Word’ format. A lot of the baptisms appear to have taken place in Non-Conformist Chapels in Newcastle upon Tyne. This may indicate the family or their ancestors were of Scottish Descent. One name which I found appeared in several results was that of John Potts HALBERT.
The name John Potts Halbert appears to have been a name carried down the generations. One particular John Potts Halbert (born abt 1794 to John Potts Halbert and his wife, Ann Nixon/ Hickson) had a son by the name of Thomas and I wonder whether this particular John Potts Halbert (who I believe died in April 1854 in Gateshead) may perhaps have been related to your own Thomas Halbert.
As I had still not located any of the required information, I then turned my searches to the possible sister of Thomas & James who I believe was mentioned in our previous correspondence as a Mary CARRETT/CARROTT (married name) living in London at the time her brothers emigrated.
I found a Mary Halbert married a David CARROTT on 22 Aug 1836 at St John’s, Gateshead Fell, Durham, England. Sadly, this was just a year too early for it to have been part of the Civil Registration of Births, Marriages & Deaths so there is no marriage certificate available. However, from the various census schedules, Mary appears to have been born abt 1816/18 in Gateshead. I found she and her husband, David Carrott, had several children: Eleanor (born abt 1838), Dorothy (born abt 1842), David (born abt 1846) and Barbara (born abt 1850). All the children were born in Gateshead. I have not found any trace of Mary CARROTT having lived in London.
Further research located the possible birth of the above Mary Carrott (nee Halbert) in Gateshead on 7 July 1816 and her baptism on 11 April 1819 (3 years later). Her parents were John & Dorothy (nee Gibson) Halbert who married at Gateshead on 13 Jan 1814. A search for other children born to this couple located a Sarah Halbert born 6 Oct 1814 and baptised 25 Dec 1814. THIS IS THE SARAH WHO WAS BAPTISED THE SAME DAY AS THE PERSON I BELIEVE TO BE YOUR THOMAS HALBERT! Whilst the above does not help with the items I was trying to locate for you, I definitely believe that the two families were related in some way.
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Misc items located during the course of your research
During the course of your research, I also found a George Halbert who was born in Aberdeen, Scotland, abt 1831. In 1881 he was living in Gateshead. He was a tailor (as was the father of Thomas Halbert, the subject of your research). Perhaps a family tradition? With this in mind, I searched the Apprenticeship Registers for Great Britain, (available for the years 1770 to 1774), however no relevant ‘Halbert’ results were located.
I also located in the 1841 census a Thomas Halbert, born abt 1806 in Lanarkshire, Scotland. He, his wife Agnes and their daughter Joanna were living in Biggar, Scotland. Thomas was a tailor! Sadly, you know that your Thomas was overseas by this time so he cannot be yours. I also located a James Halbert born abt 1811 in Biggar who was in the Army Deserters List, 1828-1840. His parents appear to have been called James & Ann.
Searches of Merchant Navy Seamen Registers, 1835-1941 located a James Halbert born in Newcastle upon Tyne; sadly no birth year was shown. They also showed a George Halbert born in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1799 and a Frederick Halbert, again born in Newcastle upon Tyne but no birth date shown.
A search of British Army Service Records, 1760-1915 located a Thomas Halbert, trumpeter in the 3rd Dragoon Guards however it showed he was discharged from the Army in 1897 (therefore far too late – and in the wrong country - to be yours).
Returning to the John Potts Halbert mentioned towards the beginning of this message, I found the death of a John Potts Halbert on 16 Aug 1925 in Eagleshaw, Victoria. He was born abt 1852. His father was also called John Potts Halbert.
I also located the Will of an Elizabeth Halbert (wife of John Potts Halbert, a Chemist & Druggist) who died on 1 Sep 1844 in Annan, Scotland. In 1834, a John Halbert, Chemist & Druggist of North Shields, Durham, is listed in Pigot’s Northumberland Directory of 1832. It is possible these two John Halberts were one and the same person.
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"Have you tried "Durham Records Online". The Gateshead filter starts off with Alice Potts Halbert. Searching the whole county brings up pages of them. I personally had never come across the name before.
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Hi
My researcher mentioned an Alice Halbert. She speculated it may have been Thomas daughter. I wasnt too sure whether to follow that lead or not. Im assuming it was Thomas Halbert Senior daughter and potentially a sister to Thomas Halbert Junior
I found this online - they have linked Alice to another Halbert family
http://genealogy.links.org/links-cgi/readged?/home/ben/camilla-genealogy/current+c-halbert98995+2-2-0-1-0
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I think thats where we found Thomas baptism. I found it unusual to see Thomas baptised many years after his birth
Is that normal?
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I think thats where we found Thomas baptism. I found it unusual to see Thomas baptised many years after his birth
Is that normal?
Yes it was fairly common practice , although most children were baptised as babies many families waited till they had a few children. They would then have them all baptised together. Perhaps cost was a major factor!
For that reason it is always a good idea to check for a baptism some years after a presumed date of birth.
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The NEI site lists two wills
http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/data/download.php
You may be aware of Alice's administration document but you do not mention about William's will. As William was a woollen draper and died in 1804 in Newcastle it may be worth getting the will to see if it contains any genealogical information. (The link above explains how to order copies)
Halbert, Alice Gateshead Fell, D spinster 3/1851/A94 ren adm
Halbert, William Newcastle upon Tyne, N woollen-draper 1/1804/H2 w
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Hi Taffie01
Than you for the information. I thought it might throw doubt about this being the right Thomas but as my genealogist pointed out the two Halberts from different families being baptised on the same day is more than coincidence.
Do we know how much baptisms cost back in those days?
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Hi DavidFt
Thank you it doesnt look like we looked at those as sources for information.
I wonder why this is no record of any other Halberts for the area? Im assuming it was the poor who didnt leave wills?
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"Have you tried "Durham Records Online". The Gateshead filter starts off with Alice Potts Halbert. Searching the whole county brings up pages of them. I personally had never come across the name before.
Thanks Barryd
Ive never seen it but perhaps my genealogist had. I really wish we knew more about Thomas Halbert and his family.
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Hi DavidFt
Thank you it doesnt look like we looked at those as sources for information.
I wonder why this is no record of any other Halberts for the area? Im assuming it was the poor who didnt leave wills?
In reality there would have been more wills made than survive. several years back there was an article in the Northumberland and Durham family history journal about this. Apparently the person in charge of looking after wills in Durham in the early 19th century use to use old wills to light his cigars !!!!! and no doubt he was not the only one.
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Hi Davidft
Ill look into ordering the two wills and see if there are any links there. If not Ill continue the search...
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Hi
Is there any other way I can find a birth for a Thomas Halbert for 8 July 1806 ?
Is it unusual not to have a place of birth registered anywhere?
Thanks!
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Hi
There seem to be posts re Thomas Halbert on the Ayrshire, Northumberland & Durham boards over the years, as well as quite a few other fora from a range of people - here is a link to the most recent, also by Revolution, last month
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=418982.9
Firstly, here is some info about a James Halbert who died in Kingower, Victoria, Australia who seems to have a connection to the Mary Halbert who married David Carrot.
James Halbert
Merchant navy records - born Newcastle, NBL 15 Sep 1827, Seaman, has served 7 months in Royal Navy & 14 Months in Foreign Service (American), lives in Gateshead, ticket issued 6 Jan 1847
At Gateshead on 11 June 1849 Mr James Halbert, Mariner to Miss Isabella Miller
Durham County Advertiser, 22 June 1849
You could order the marriage certificate using the reference obtained from www.freebmd.org.uk and ordering from the General Register Office here http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
You could also order a film of the marriage registers for St Mary's, Gateshead. See www.familysearch.org for the on-line film catalogue and the location of LDS family history centres where you can view the film.
1851 Census HO107/2402 folio 725 Gateshead St Mary’s
Listers H? Yard
James Halbert Hd Mar 24 born Newcastle upon Tyne
Isabella wife 20 NBL Bedlington?
Magt? dau 1 DUR Gateshead
6 Dec 1907 Kingower, Shire of Karong, County of Gladstone, James Halbert, Miner. aged 80 years, Cause of death, Apoplexy, Second attack, 16 hours, parents names - “Not known”, Informant Ellen Halbert, Daughter in Law, Kingower, buried 8 Dec 1907 Kingower Cemetery, born Newcastle, 54 years in Australian colonies - Victoria, age at marriage not known, place of marriage not known, name of spouse - Isabella Millar, Children:
John Potts 56 years
James Lindsay 53 years
Jonathan Millar deceased
Thomas 50
Michael 48
Isabella 46
Joseph 44
Barbara deceased
Margaret Clare? 43
Jane 42
David 40
Robert 38
Joshua deceased
David Carrot Halbert died in Kingower, Victoria aged 45 in 1910, parents James Halbert & Isabella Miller according to various Ancestry trees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingower,_Victoria
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Thanks SelDen, thats some great info!
Ive started this blog to try to encourage more people to come forward.
http://cerberuscoins.wordpress.com/2014/09/14/descendants-of-thomas-halbert-1806-1865/
Id also like to find some direct male descendants of Thomas and James who would be willing to take a DNA test (mouth swab) which would then either confirm the relationship or refute it.
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A bit of information about the John Halbert who is the possible parent of James Halbert & Mary Carrott. You probably already have much of this, but thought I would set it out for others who may have pieces to contribute to the puzzle.
John Halbert of this parish & Dorothy Gibson of this parish married by banns 13 January 1814, witnesses James Reed (a frequent witness) & William Appleby. Bride made her mark.
Marriages, St Mary’s Gateshead, image no 66 in on-line Gateshead BTs 1812-1823
Dorothy Halbert buried 1819 aged 27 years (so born abt 1792)
Burials, Gateshead
John Halbert of this parish & Barbara Charlton of this parish were married by Banns 16 January 1820, both signed, witnesses George Halbert & Thomas Cummin (a frequent witness)
Marriages, Gateshead Bishop’s Transcripts image no 412 1812-1823
1841 Census HO107/296/14 folio 39 p18
Gateshead, Bottle Bank
[this is a couple of houses away from the David & Mary Carrit household]
John Halbert 41 Cork Cutter No[t born in county]
Barbara 25 Y
Isabella 16 Y
Ann 14 Y
Sarah 8 Y
Elizabeth 6 Y
Michael 3 Y
Barbara 1 Y
28 July 1844 Isaac Anderson of full age, Bachelor, Shoemaker, Oakwellgate, son of Robert Anderson, Shoemaker, & Ann Halbert, Spinster, Minor [i.e. aged under 21 years], Bottlebank, daughter of John Halbert, Cork Cutter, both bride & groom made their marks, married by Banns, witnesses John Halbert & Barbara Halbert
Marriages, St Mary’s, Gateshead
1851 Census Ho107/2402 Gateshead St Mary’s
Back? Lane
John Halbert Hd Mar 56 Cork Cutter Newcastle
Barbara do wife 49 DUR Gateshead
Sarah do dau 18 at home born do
Elizabeth do dau 16 dressmaker do
Michael do son Smith helper do
Thomas do son 8 Scholar do
Barbara do nurse child 4 mo do
You may well have the baptisms for these children from your researcher. If not you can locate them in the indexed records on www.familysearch.org and use these index entries to help you find them on the on-line but unindexed Bishops' Transcripts also on www.familysearch.org
For example - the baptism of James Charlton Halbert s/o John & Barbara Halbert baptised 5 Jan 1828, St John, Newcastle upon Tyne.
There are some difficulties with seeing this particular John Halbert as the father of your Thomas Halbert (assuming that the parent details on the Gateshead baptism that you have were mixed up somehow):
1) www.familysearch.org for the Thomas Halbert in 1814 in Gateshead gives a birth date of 8 July 1806, too early for John to be a likely parent and some years prior to his first marriage; and
2)John & Barbara Halbert have an 8 year old son Thomas in the 1851 census. Of course, they could have thought the first one had died, if they had not heard from him in a very long time.
I have some thoughts about other options which will have to wait until I have more time, but generally I think you are on the right track if you continue to pull together all the info you can on the Tyneside Halberts and draw up a bit of a tree to sort out the John Potts, to see if and how Tame Poto fits into this large family. These are possibly the descendants of William Halbert & Alice/Alison Potts who married in Kelso, Roxburgh 21 August 1763.
The actual parish registers for C of E entries in the period 1798-1812 are more detailed in Durham & NBL than before or after, so these are worth tracking down on film or through the on-line BTs (watch out for gaps, sometimes days or years). I appreciate many of the Halberts were baptised as non-conformists, particularly the earlier ones.
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Yes, a DNA test would confirm common male descent but it would be good to sort out where in the family Thomas fits in :D
The George Halbert from Aberdeen is also intriguing.
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Thank you again SelDen
Ive plotted James into ancestry and quite a few matching records and of course thats a phenomenal number of children. Ive traced other families and been able to get back to the early 1600s yet Thomas and his family are a mystery.
Looks like Ill have to order a few records. I havent found the GRO ordering that easy but the Durham records online seems much easier.
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Ive plotted some of this into ancestry. Some Im still confused about some of them and some Im putting in info just to see if there are any links.
John Potts Halbert b abt 1768 married Ann Nixon/Hixon on 28 Jan 1794
Son: John Potts Halbert born in 1794 and he appears to have died in 1795
John Potts Halbert then marries Mary ?
Daughter: Mary Ann Halbert in 1798
Daughter: Alice Potts Halbert in 1799
Son: William in 1800
Daughter: Elizabeth in 1801
Son: John Potts in 1808
Son: Richard Jackson in 1809
These Halberts and others had huge families.
As you mentioned John Halbert married Dorothy Gibson and had at least 2 children - Mary and Sarah Halbert. Mary went on to marry David Carrott. The earliest record we have is that Thomas Jr in New Zealand said that Mary was his fathers (Thomas Halbert) sister. This could have been confused and she may have been a cousin whom he was close to.
John then married Barbara -after Dorothy died and had around 14 kids.
John Halbert appears to have had a number of siblings William, Alice, Sarah, Elizabeth and George Potts. Ive not been able to find a Thomas Halbert in the same age bracket who would be the father of my English born Thomas 1806-1865. Ive put a Thomas in as the sibling of William, Alice etc. This Thomas would have to have been older by at least 6 years than his next sibling William Halbert b 1792 just to be around 20 when Thomas was born. I added an arbitrary birth date of 1786 to fit this 'idea'. As its unlikely there was a large gap between Thomas and his younger sibling there may be other children.
How likely/unlikely would the person recording the baptism have been to misrecord Thomas fathers name? His occupation was listed as Tailor
The Alice Halbert born in 1794 father William Halbert was also a Tailor.
I havent found any trace of Thomas and Sarah Halbert having other kids nor deaths of either.
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"Have you tried "Durham Records Online". The Gateshead filter starts off with Alice Potts Halbert. Searching the whole county brings up pages of them. I personally had never come across the name before.
I answered some months ago but tried again. Both a Gateshead search and an "all districts" search on Durham Records Online for any child of Thomas Halbert/Sarah brings up only Thomas baptized in 1814 which you already know.
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Hi barryd
Im just unsure about which would be relevant records without a matching Thomas and Sarah Halbert.
There is always the possibility that Thomas Halbert b 1806 parents died after his baptism or had died prior to being baptised and that when he was baptised at the same time as Sarah Halbert they recognised who his parents were? John and Dorothy were Sarahs parents.
Ive been watching the Durham records each time I get an email to say its been updated but no deaths of Thomas parents pop up nor other info about Thomas.
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Hi - what does the burial entry for the John Potts Halbert who was buried in 1795 say? Do you have the full entry?
It is very easy to get all those John Potts & George Potts mixed up.
I also meant to check whether you have sighted the actual baptism entry for Thomas Halbert in 1814 - did your researcher send it through, i.e. an image of the entry? While www.familysearch.org has a birth date of 1806 for this baptism, www.freereg.org.uk & Durhamrecordsonline do not - they just have the baptism date. It it is possible both the latter have relied on the Bishop's Transcript which did not include the birthdate. Hopefully the researcher went to the original parish register.
Have been looking at this group of baptisms - no firm conclusions yet, not even sure if it is the same William, but it does present another possibility for the Thomas Halbert baptism:
William (Junior) Halbert & Margaret - & Sarah?
William born 5 Dec 1792 bap 6 Jan 1793 s/o William & Sarah Halbert, father a Taylor
Baptisms, St John the Baptist, Newcastle upon Tyne
Alice born 1 April 1794 & baptised 23 April 1794 daughter of William Halbert junr & Margaret Halbert, Tailor, St John
Brunswick Chapel, Wesleyan Newcastle upon Tyne
George Potts Halbert baptised 9 March 1802 son of William Jun’r Halbert & Sarah Halbert
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel, Newcastle upon Tyne
I think the George Potts Halbert born 1802 may be the future Master Mariner:
16 Sep 1827 George Halbert married Ann Innes All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne
Mr Geo Halbert to Ann, eldest daughter of Mr George Innis, of London
Newcastle Magazine vol 6 no X Oct 1827
no 1455 George Halbert, 36, Newcastle, Master, Hepburn Hall of Whitby
Merchant Seaman - 1835 BT120
George Potts bap 29 Aug 1828 s/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, Pilgrim St, Master Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne
Ann bap 25 May 1831 d/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, Tyne St, father a Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints - Family Search
William Kennedy bap 2 Jan 1833 s/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, Clarence St, father a Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints
Thomas bap 10 Oct 1834 s/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, No. Shore, father a Master Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints
Frederick bap 17 June 1836 s/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, No. Shore, father a Master Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints
Henry Horatio bap 4 July 1837
Baptisms, All Saints - Family Search
Deaths Sep 1839 HALBERT Henry Horatio Newcastle on Tyne
Elizabeth Innes bap 18 June 1839
Baptisms, All Saints - Family Search
Sarah Emma bap 5 Oct 1841 d/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, No. Shore, father a Master Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints
1851 Census HO107/1546
St Mary Whitechapel, St Mark, Tower Hamlets
6 Tender St
George Halbert Hd Mar 48 Master Mariner Newcastle upon Tyne
Ann 44 wife Newcastle upon Tyne
Anne 20 dau Unmarried Newcastle upon Tyne
William 18 son Unmarried Ship Broker’s Junior Clerk Newcastle upon Tyne
Frederick son Unmarried 15 Solicitor’s Junior Clerk Newcastle upon Tyne
Elizabeth dau 11 Newcastle upon Tyne
Sarah E dau 9 Newcastle upon Tyne
Septimus 7 son Newcastle upon Tyne
Died at sea 2 Sep 1851 on board the bark Ellen of London, on her passage from Sierra Leone, aged 49, deeply regretted, Mr George Potts Halbert, who for 24 years sailed out of this port as captain
Newcastle Courant, 24 Oct 1851
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I have been looking at William & Alice/Alison Halbert who seem to have started off the large Halbert family.
As I noted earlier, www.familysearch.org has a marriage between a William Halbert & Alice/Alison Potts in Kelso, Roxburgh 21 August 1763. At that date there may be no extra details but always worth checking, either on http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (instant gratification at a cost) or order the film through the LDS family history centre - the number will be on the familysearch index entry.
I have posted a look up request on the Northumberland board for their burials, which are apparently in the Ballast Hills Burial Ground (a non-con burial ground in Newcastle). The ages may or may not rule the marriage out.
Otherwise a possible scenario would be that this couple married in Kelso (which had a textile 'industry') and had some children before the ones that show up below. The Castle Garth Chapel in Newcastle was a Scottish Relief Church congregation, and there was a church of this denomination in Kelso later on, at least. However if any records survive they may only be available in Edinburgh - but maybe check this statement on the ROX board. Otherwise they may have had the earlier children in Newcastle, but we have not yet found them, or the records have not survived, or were not kept (non-con ministers varied considerably in the quality and quantity of their record keeping).
The Edinburgh Annual Register for 1826 notes the death of a John Potts Halbert late of Newcastle upon Tyne in his 59th year - giving a birth date of abt 1768 - another possible son for William senior & Alice/Alison?
Added: This would be the John Potts Halbert who married Anne _ixon by Licence in All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne as per your notes, with the groom being 26 & the bride 22. See here for the marriage bond etc on www.familysearch.org
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11897-19197-24?cc=1675690&wc=M6KL-XZS:129238501,129238502
In the 1770s-1780s William Halbert (senior), Tailor, Newcastle upon Tyne took on several apprentices (note that if he made any of his sons his own apprentices these would not show up in the records of apprenticeship indentures).
Newcastle trade directories for the early 1780s have:
Halbert, William, Woollen draper, Castlestairs
William senior had died by 19 Dec 1803, the date of a newspaper notice to creditors and debtors by his son Geo Halbert, sole Executor of William’s will.
William & Alice Halbert said to be buried in Ballast Hills Burial Ground - no date.
In 1806 George and Alice Potts (mother & son? or did George Halbert marry an Alice?) were declared bankrupt.
Morning Chronicle, 1 Oct 1806
Children
George s/o Wm & Alison Halbert bap 21 Mar 1773
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Possible death?
Gateshead - 14th inst [July 1822] at the Windmill Hills aged 49, Mr George Halbert formerly of Newcastle
Durham Advertiser, 27 July 1822
Elizabeth bap 19 Mar 1775 d/o William & Aley Halbert
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
On Sat last at St Nicholas’ Church, Mr Matthew Corner, of Gateshead, builder, to Miss Halbert, daughter of the late Mr W Halbert, of the Castle Garth, in this town, draper
Newcastle Courant 22 June 1805
Elizabeth Halbert of this parish married Matthew Corner, Gateshead on 15 June 1805
Marriages, St Nicholas, Newcastle upon Tyne
Alice d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 27 Feb 1778
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Possibly?
Alice Halbert of this parish married Edward Aikine Davidson of the chapelry of St John on16 May 1804, witnesses John Thompson & Thomas Brown (both frequent witnesses)
St Nicholas Marriages, Newcastle upon Tyne
Joseph s/o William & Alice Halbert bap 2 Jan 1780
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Robert s/o William & Alice Halbert bap 18 Nov 1781
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Isabella d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 2 Apr 1783
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Ann d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 20 Nov 1785
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Jane d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 7 Oct 1787
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
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John Halbert appears to have had a number of siblings William, Alice, Sarah, Elizabeth and George Potts.
Do you think John Halbert the Cork Cutter (father of Mary Carrott) is the son of William senior & Alice Halbert? I think he has to be a grandson, given his age. I was looking at the baptism in 1794, and it looks as if you may have killed that baby off :) (which is why I wanted to check the wording of the burial entry).
As you will see from my previous entry, I do think that there is room for William senior & Alice to have had several more children before the first baptism that shows up in Castle Garth Chapel, if they are the couple who married in Kelso and I haven't emptied a huge basket of red herrings over your research ??? These children could have been born in Newcastle upon Tyne, Kelso, or somewhere else. The Halberts didn't stay put.
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HI SelDen
Yes she sited and sent me the original copies of the register. I cant see the birthdate but can see the baptism date and Thomas parents names. I can also see the entry for Sarah Halbert on the same day with the other parents.
There is an Alice Halbert, daughter of Alice Halbert
Alice Halbert
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 christening: 27 February 1778, Castle Garth Chapel, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
residence: Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
father:William Halbert
mother:Alice Halbert
Im going to have to site down and map all the great info you have provided.
Is the William Sr the one who died in 1804 and William Jr who was born around 1860 the one who died in 1804
Ill go the instant gratification route after seeing if my researcher hasnt already sent me the info. She looked into the Scottish parents for Thomas but found no matches but I dont think looked at his fathers family.
Thank you for posting the lookup.
Ive printed the form to get the Wills of Alice Halbert and also William Halbert who died in 1804.
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From what Ive been able to find:
John Halbert b abt 1795 and died in 1854 parent was William Jr who married a Sarah. There is a refernce to him being William Jr so that would make his father William Sr (I hope).
William Sr married someone named Ann
Theres at least three generations of William Halberts.
Im hoping this is the right John Halbert - son of William Jr Halbert
Name: Jn. Halbert
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 27 Sep 1796
Birthplace: CASTLE GARTH PRESBYTERIAN-NC,NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE,NORTHUMBERLAND,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Wm. Halbert
Mother's Name: Sarah
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P00426-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 95016
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https://familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1986340
Hi just a v quick reply coz I have to unplug but there are now quite a few Dur Nbl probate records available on family search - this is quite recent. Link above and scroll down to the list of unindexed records. Use the refs you have from the university site to navigate your way around. I saw a post somewhere that recommended using F5 key I think it was - the find function anyway - once you are in a doc.
If you cannot see the birthdate on the image the researcher sent you then this indicates that either they just sent you a copy of the Bishop's Transcript which is available for free on www.familysearch.org , and which does not prove that the indexed entry with the 1806 birthdate in family search is correct, or alternatively it is indeed the parish record and the 1806 date is a mistake. I suspect the researcher sent you the Bishop's Transcript because that is what would be easiest for them, but it is lazy. Either way I think it is important to check the actual parish record now ( maybe ask for a look up?).
Got to go. This problem is addictive!
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Ive got both images but the one with the date of birth is the one I cant make out. I dont think I can post them on here?
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Definitely more than a coincidence that there are so many children with the Potts name in later generations so that William Halbert and Alison/Alice Potts must be part of the family line.
I just found this on ancestry John Potts married to Mary Halbert present at the baptism of thier daughter Alice Potts in 1799 at All Saints. Pure coincidence?
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Thanks to Ailsa for downlaoding the Will of William Halbert who died in 1804. He was married to Alice.
He is a Woollen Draper and ran the business William Halbert and Son
He names his living children
John
William
Joseph
George
Elizabeth
Alice
Isabella
Sadly theres no Thomas and I cant find a baptism for John but have seen the baptisms of the other children.
In 1804 William left his business to his son George and wife Alice and within two years they had run it into the ground. I say its profitable as William left hundreds of pounds to each of his children and his wife.
Also attached is the The Universal British Directory of Trade, Commerce, and ..., Volume 4 for Newcastle upon Tyne - it looks like the Halbets were well into selling clothes.
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I now have a copy (Thanks Ailsa) of the marriage of William Halbert and Alison Potts in Kelso - 'both of this parish'
Witnesses Adam Telfer and John Archison
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Thomas Halbert birth documents attached. I cant see the birth date but no doubt others will have trained thier eyes to see these dates.
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Thanks v much for posting the extract from the parish register as well as the extract from the BTs. I must apologise for doubting your researcher :-[
Thomas Halbert birth documents attached. I cant see the birth date but no doubt others will have trained thier eyes to see these dates.
I am afraid it is just a dark blur to me as well.
Great news re the will & the marriage - good to check the marriage out just in case there was something useful there.
I don't have much of practical use today, but did come across this somewhat entertaining article re James Halbert. Probably the same James Halbert as the one who ended up in Australia given his choice of alias.
"On Saturday last, Mr James Halbert, landlord of the White House public house, Pilgrim St in this town, suddenly decamped leaving his creditors minus a considerable sum…Halbert had gone to Liverpool to embark for Australia…[the police] arrived at Liverpool and proceeded to the Great Britain steamer where they discovered him on board…"
[He had bad luck - the steamer had developed a fault after setting off which delayed it]
"Halbert had entered himself amongst the passengers as James Charlton. He was accordingly brought to this town on Monday and safely lodged in gaol awaiting the due course of law.
"It appears that the plan for his flight had been well matured by Halbert, as, previous to his departure by the Saturday night’s express train, he sold every piece of furniture in his house. He, however, left a short supply of ale and spirits with which several of his friends, after he left, made too free, some of them afterwards having to be conveyed to the station house on barrows by the police, drunk and insensible. Hence arose the rumour of his departure."
Newcastle Courant, Friday 5 May 1854
here are some more marriages that will fit in somewhere, just in case you do not have them:
Mary Halbert & Richard Ord 26 Oct 1825
St Paul’s Jarrow
8 Jan 1823 Sarah Halbert married William Lee, Newcastle, All Saints
Alice Halbert of this parish & Edward Aikine Davidson of the Chapelry of St John married 16 May 1804, St Nicholas, NuT
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The Liberation of Mr Halbert - We alluded last week to the sudden departure from this town and capture of Mr James Halbert of the White House. Since then it is stated that after settling with his chief creditors he was liberated from goal and departed once more to raise his falling fortunes at the diggings in Australia.
Newcastle Courant 12 May 1854
[the gold rush was in full swing of course & Kingower was a gold rush town for a couple of years].
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Have corrected first article re James Halbert's friends being carted off to the police station in barrows - they were not 'sensible' as I mistyped but 'insensible' - which fits the context much better of course.
Some more snippets:
At Gateshead Fell, on the 17th inst [October 1846] aged 47, Alice, daughter of the late John Potts Halbert, Esq, merchant of this town.
Newcastle Journal, 24 Oct 1846
At Annan, Dumfries-shire on the 19th ult. [i.e. the previous December] aged 69, Ann, relict of Mr John Potts Halbert, merchant, late of Newcastle.
Newcastle Courant 8 Jan 1841
Deaths - At Sea, on the 19th September, aged 28, Capt. G.P. Halbert, of the ship Suzanne, of London, while on her passage from Calcutta. Deceased was son of the late Capt. G.P. Halbert, of this port.
Newcastle Courant, 5 December 1856
[You mentioned you have access to Ancestry - you can get documents relating to the mates/masters certificates for both the George Potts Halberts on Ancestry.]
At North Shields, on the 24th inst, [November] Mr John Johnson, merchant, to Margaret, daughter of the late Mr James Bell, and granddaughter of the late John P. Halbert, Esq., of Newcastle.
Newcastle Guardian & Tyne Mercury, 29 Nov 1862
Died, by falling overboard while on duty on board H.M.S. Rattler, at Hong Kong, China, on the 6th Feburary last, aged 25, James, son of the late Mr James Bell, and grandson of the late John Potts Halbert, Esq., of Newcastle, deeply regretted by all his friends.
Newcastle Guardian & Tyne Mercury, 25 April 1863
At St Paul’s Church High Elswick Mr Richard Atkinson, farmer, Oldham, near Manchester, to Mrs Margaret Bell, daughter of the late Mr James Bell, of Heworth and granddaughter of the late John Potts Halbert, Esq., of this town.
Newcastle Courant 28 June 1867
Balham, Surrey at the residence of his son in law, on the 23rd inst, [May 1879], aged 71, John Potts Halbert of Ashley Grange, Annan.
Newcastle Courant, 30 May 1879
[You can see from www.familysearch.org and census entries that what looks like a branch of the Newcastle Halberts ended up in Annan, Dumfrieshire. Also see death notice above for Ann, widow of John Potts Halbert.
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A couple more:
Partnership Dissolved
Notice is hereby given that the co-partnership of William Halbert & Son is this day mutually & amicably dissolved, and that the retail business will in future be carried out by William Halbert only, and the Wholesale by John Halbert his son, whose warehouse is adjoining his Father’s shops, in the Castle Yard…Newcastle, 21 June 1792
Newcastle Courant, 23 June 1792
Deaths - At Gateshead, 9th inst in Bottle Bank, aged 58, Mr J Halbert, cork cutter
Durham County Advertiser, 21 April 1854
Deaths - At London - In Arbour Square, on the 12th inst, Ann, widow of the late Captain Halbert, formerly of this town.
Newcastle Courant, 16 Dec 1864
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Thanks SelDen - some great info
I cant find the birth of the John Halbert b abt 1792 - son of William or William the son of William on Familysearch.
The John Potts Halbert line. I still havent worked out how it fits into the picture other than the obvious naming conventions.
John Potts Halbert b abt 1768 married Ann Nixon/Hixon on 28 Jan 1794 unless hes the son of William and Alison Halbert nee Potts?
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Thanks SelDen - some great info
The John Potts Halbert line. I still havent worked out how it fits into the picture other than the obvious naming conventions.
John Potts Halbert b abt 1768 married Ann Nixon/Hixon on 28 Jan 1794 unless hes the son of William and Alison Halbert nee Potts?
I think that more than one son of the first William & Alice/Alison named one of their sons John Potts - that is, William & Alice would have had at least two if not more grandsons named John Potts Halbert, as well as their own son John Potts Halbert. So there is more than one John Potts line! Makes things interesting!
I think that the John Potts Halbert born about 1768 may be the son of William & Alice Halbert (assuming the 1763 marriage in Kelso checks out). We need to get the approximate birth years for William & Alice Halbert in Newcastle to make sure they are not too young to be the couple marrying in Kelso.
John Potts Halbert born about 1768 married Ann Hixon/Nixon in All Saints by Licence in All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne as per your notes, with the groom being 26 & the bride 22. See here for the marriage bond etc on www.familysearch.org
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11897-19197-24?cc=1675690&wc=M6KL-XZS:129238501,129238502
JPH late of Newcastle upon Tyne dies in 1826 aged 58 (in his 59th year) according to the The Edinburgh Annual Register for 1826. Ann, his widow, dies in Annan, Dumfrieshire in 1841. Some online sources seem to conflate JPH born 1768 with another JPH who married a Mary, and went on to have more children in addition to the stuff I have already provided. However, Ann Halbert outlived her husband.
Has been a long day for me so will leave your other query for another day. Basically I think you need to get a blank piece of A3 & a pencil & rubber & start an old-fashioned tree, slotting in the known, with queries for the unknown, and then work on filling the gaps. This family was clearly better off than the average Tyneside seaman/miner/industrial labourer & there are lots of bits and pieces to be found about them but it will take a bit of time to slot them together into a reasonably coherent working model which can then be improved as you find more info.
Apologies if you know this, but not sure if you are aware of the common naming pattern which is found in both lowland Scotland and NBL/DUR:
Y (male) married X (female)
1st daughter is named after X's mother
1st son is named after Y's father
2nd daughter is named after Y's mother
2nd son is married after X's father.
3rd daughter named after X
3rd son named after Y.
You can google for the full pattern. It is often used, but you can only be sure how strictly it was applied by a particular family if you find every single child and see how they were named. The limited number of forenames often meant that a father in law and son in law for example could have the same name, so the 'high priority' names could be quickly used up and others picked. Or perhaps a much missed family member died and the next same sex child was named after them, despite it not yet being their 'turn'. If a child died, a later born sibling was often given the same name. Children could be given the name of a brother or sister in law, or an aunt/uncle (for example David Carrot Halbert).
If you google for Halbert & Annan you will find quite a bit of good info about this branch.
All the best!
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Thank you again Selden
I very much appreciate you casting fresh eyes over this. Still lots for me to discover and hopefully some records will be scanned in which reveal Thomas parents births, marriages and deaths and how they are connected.
I also contacted the local Gateshead/Newcastle historical society but never received a response
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Came across this list of family trees held by the Northumberland and Durham Family History Society
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJDN-MSBT
You will see there is one listed for Halbert, Newcastle. No idea what it is like but you could contact them. You might have to join up but that is not expensive - Google for their eshop.
See also the reply from Janis to the look up request for Ballast Hills burial ground on the Northumberland ground. That gives the burial dates for some children of William and Alison and shows that they were having children in the 1760s.
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Hi
The link took me to a New Zealand passenger list?
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Sorry, that was a response to another query, my tablet has a mind of it's own sometimes but I should have noticed it was not right. Try this:
http://ndfhs.org/pdfs/library-catalogue-family-trees.pdf
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Great, thank you Ill check it out tonight.
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Ive emailed the society about the Halbert info. Its the same place I emailed previously but chose a different person to send the query to.
The Ballast Hills burial ground also has William and Allison buried there. We know William died in 1804.
Its quite sad to see a former cemetery and its headstones treated like that.
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Good luck with your message to the NDFHS. They are all volunteers so may not always be able to respond immediately but hopefully will be able to get you a copy of the Halbert tree.
Just a small point- William Halbert senior was dead by Dec 1803 according to the notice his son George put in the paper. See reply#23 above.
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Should have added that probate probably granted in 1804 for William's will, but seems he died late 1803
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Thank you. Hopefully I get a response soon from the society.
Im running with a few different ideas to try and explain why there is no Thomas Halbert listed anywhere for that period.
Could the person registering the baptisms have confused Thomas name and was meant to transcribe William and Sarah Halbert? It still doesnt explain why Thomas birth wasnt registered yet the other siblings were.
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Could the person registering the baptisms have confused Thomas name and was meant to transcribe William and Sarah Halbert?
This is a possibility that I have wondered about - see my post of 11 October. In this scenario, the William who was married to a Sarah would be a son of William senior & Allison Potts, baptised in the 1760s before the series of Castle Garth baptisms start. Have you found William junior's marriage to Sarah?
Did your researcher find any other baptisms for a William Halbert with a wife named either Sarah or Margaret?
I noted these in reply#22 before I got sidetracked by the descendants of George Potts Halbert the Master Mariner.
William born 5 Dec 1792 bap 6 Jan 1793 s/o William & Sarah Halbert, father a Taylor
Baptisms, St John the Baptist, Newcastle upon Tyne
Alice born 1 April 1794 & baptised 23 April 1794 daughter of William Halbert junr & Margaret Halbert, Tailor, St John
Brunswick Chapel, Wesleyan Newcastle upon Tyne
George Potts Halbert baptised 9 March 1802 son of William Jun’r Halbert & Sarah Halbert
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel, Newcastle upon Tyne
It is a bit odd that if this is the same couple (with Margaret being an error), all the baptisms are in different churches of different denominations, and then if you add the Thomas Halbert born 1806 & baptised 1814 to the family, then there are some gaps to fill, plus yet another church. I think that William & Sarah need further exploration, to see if any more gaps can be filled in.
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It still doesnt explain why Thomas birth wasnt registered yet the other siblings were.
Not sure which Thomas you are referring to?
If William & Allison Halbert who had children baptised in Castle Garth Chapel are the same couple who married in Kelso in 1763, then there are a number of years in which they could have had children who do not yet show up in baptisms in Newcastle (they may be somewhere we haven't looked yet, or they have may been baptised outside Newcastle).
We know from John Potts Halbert born 1768, & some of the burials that Janis found in her index for the Ballast Hills burial ground, that William & Allison Potts had at least a couple of children prior to the Castle Garth baptisms.
We know from William Halbert senior's will that William & Allison had the following surviving children at the time the will was written:
John
William
Joseph
George
Elizabeth
Alice
Isabella
I have pulled the following list of children together - if you have more, can you plse slot them in so we know where we are. William (listed above) must fit in somewhere between 1763 and 1770, I think.
Children
Elizabeth daur of William and Allison Halbert died 27 July 1771, aged 5 years
[so born about 1766]
John Potts - born about 1768 - see his marriage licence and we know he died in Edinburgh in 1826 aged 58 (see earlier posts)
George s/o Wm & Alison Halbert bap 2 June 1771
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
George, son of the above died 10 Dec 1773, aged 18 months
Burials, Ballast Hills
This burial date seems too late to me (needs to be checked), as another George Halbert, s/o William & Alice was baptised in Castle Garth Chapel 21 March 1773 and this would fit with the following death:
Gateshead - 14th inst [July 1822] at the Windmill Hills aged 49, Mr George Halbert formerly of Newcastle
Durham Advertiser, 27 July 1822
Elizabeth bap 19 Mar 1775 d/o William & Aley Halbert
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
On Sat last at St Nicholas’ Church, Mr Matthew Corner, of Gateshead, builder, to Miss
Halbert, daughter of the late Mr W Halbert, of the Castle Garth, in this town, draper
Newcastle Courant 22 June 1805
Elizabeth Halbert of this parish married Matthew Corner, Gateshead on 15 June 1805
Marriages, St Nicholas, Newcastle upon Tyne
Joseph, son of William and Allison Halbert died Oct 4 1776, in infancy;
Ballast Hills, Burials
Alice d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 27 Feb 1778
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Possibly?
Alice Halbert of this parish married Edward Aikine Davidson of the chapelry of St John on 16
May 1804, witnesses John Thompson & Thomas Brown (both frequent witnesses)
St Nicholas Marriages, Newcastle upon Tyne
Joseph s/o William & Alice Halbert bap 2 Jan 1780
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Robert s/o William & Alice Halbert bap 18 Nov 1781
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Robert, son of the above, died March 30 1786, aged 4 years and 5 months;
Burials, Ballast Hills
Isabella d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 2 Apr 1783
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Ann d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 20 Nov 1785
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
Anna, daur of the above died Nov 14 1789, aged 5 years
Burials, Ballast Hills
Jane d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 7 Oct 1787
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search
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Hi
Sorry, the Thomas I was referring to was my Thomas Halbert b1806.
I don't have access to ancestry to get my info while at work but will respond to the questions you have raised when I get home.
Thanks again
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If the 1814 baptism for the 8 year old Thomas was for your Thomas, then his baptism was recorded.
If it is not your Thomas, then your Thomas may still have been baptised somewhere, we just can't find it.
I have seen a posts on another forum which claimed that Tame Poto was the illegitimate son of a Mr Halbert & his servant Mary. No sources provided. It is a possibility that your Thomas Halbert was illegitimate, which could make him harder to identify. If he was the son of a male Halbert he is probably baptised under the name of his mother - will be tricky to find.
A related train of thought - a Sarah Halbert was baptised 13 January 1822 daughter of Alice Halbert, in St Andrews, Newcastle upon Tyne, no father mentioned. The mother Alice Halbert could be the daughter of William & Margaret [sic] - seems to be the only unmarried Alice of the right age at the time. If so, this suggests that "Margaret" was a mistake and should have been Sarah.
The illegitimate Sarah born abt 1822 seems to have been in the workhouse in both 1841 and 1851, which is very sad and also unusual - wonder if she had a disability?
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Theres lots of misinformation about Thomas - mainly from New Zealand sources. Ive even found a family tree with Thomas father as Robert and someone has started tracing the female line with no dates but just a series of random names.
The book about his son Wi Pere says Thomas Lindsay Halbert father was Robert Halbert and Thomas was born in 1802.
The problem with this is the family (no offence to their memory or descendants) did not research this part of their book. They utilised other data including MacKays book written in the 1940s. I have the manuscript notes for MacKays book which relies on THII knowledge 60 years after the fact. While some of the info doesn't seem perfectly match it does provide some help.
With the lack of any concrete data about Thomas it does become a possibility he may have been an illegitimate child. If he was baptised under his mothers name then its going to be very difficult to find it.
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On the bright side, the Thomas Halbert born abt 1806 and bap 1814 has not yet been otherwise accounted for. Hasn't been found in the UK census and no burial yet found. So he remains a strong candidate.
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Yes that is a positive!
Were you saying above that if there is a baptism that means the birth was registered in a seperate record?
"If the 1814 baptism for the 8 year old Thomas was for your Thomas, then his baptism was recorded"
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No, civil registration did not start in England and Wales until July 1837. I was just a bit puzzled about your question (feeling a bit slow today ;D) as if the 1814 baptism is for your Thomas, then there it is. I also forgot to note that William senior's will does not list a son Thomas as living, which is another tiny bit of evidence on the side of the 1814 baptism having an error.
I think we are currently missing quite a bit of information about the William who married Sarah and it would be good to fill this in as and when it can be found.
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I haven't had time to go through these, but they might help trace the movements of some of the Halberts.
For England & Wales:
http://leicester.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/landingpage/collection/p16445coll4
And for Scotland:
http://www.nls.uk/news/archive/2010/12/scottish-post-office-directories
http://scottishancestry.blogspot.co.nz/2010/10/scottish-directories-online.html
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Newcastle upon Tyne 1801 - image attached.
1850 James Halbert, White House, 57 Pilgrim Street
1855 James Halbert, Vict, White House, 86 Pilgrim Street
Also in the same issue was John Halbert - Cork Cutter, Back lane
1858 Barbara Halbert (Mrs) Shopkeeper, 52 High Street
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Hi Selden
The Halbert children of William and Sarah - so far. As you said plenty of scope for more children and with only 6 children their Halbert family is comparatively small. I dont think we have the birth or death dates for either parent.
William born 5 Dec 1792
Alice born 1 April 1794
John 1795-1854
Sarah 27 July 1798
Elizabeth 1799
George Potts Halbert 1 March 1802
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The only William Halbert I could find fitting the timeframe is William Halbert marrying Sarah Hemp on 13 May 1791 in Saint Boltoph without Aldgate, London, England.
Ancestry has her as Sarah Kemp
I cant find further records for them in London. Thats not to say there arent any.
There are William and Sarah Halberts dying in Lancashire 1839, 1843 and Kent 1857 and Sarah Halbert dying on Pancras, London in 1837.
On ancestry someone has the right William marrying Sarah Robson but there are no records to provide proof.
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Baptisms for parents Thomas and Margaret in the mid 1860s
11 Apr 1864
Dorothy
17 Aug 1874
Elizabeth Crawford
5 Nov 1866
Mary
1 Apr 1872
Sarah
1 Apr 1872
Thomas
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I dont know if these are of any help. My Thomas childrens names. These are the english versions as some had only Maori names or used either Maori or English variants. It has been written that he had 11 children who survived to adulthood. I dont see any proof of that.
Alice b 1865
Thomas b 1863
Martha b 1856
Mary b 1853
Sarah b 1850
Kate b 1840
William b 1837
Otene b 1834
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I forgot to ask where this info came from. This Alice was the one born in 1794 to William and Sarah and who was unmarried?
Sarah, daughter of Alice, in the workhouse.
I can see the birth record on ancestry plus family search.
Thanks
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I have been scratching my head about John Potts Halbert born about 1768, married Ann _ickson in 1794. This post tries to make sense of this line. John Potts Halbert born about 1768 was (as you know) a woollen draper who seems to have done quite well, despite being made bankrupt in 1806 around the same time as his brother George & mother Alice. I think there was some kind of wider financial strife at the time, possibly connected to the Napoleonic wars - I need to read some of the newspapers to check it out. He seems to have had the confidence of his creditors as in March 1807 there us a notice from the assignees that they have authorised John Potts Halbert to receive the payments due to his estate.
I get the impression that he recovered financially somehow. Later on he is referred to as "Esq" (esquire) - an honorific not given to every businessman, let alone bankrupts. Newspaper notices referring to the deaths of his daughters and the marriage of at least one granddaughter refer back to him.
Some family trees have him marrying first Ann, and then Mary. I originally thought there might be two different John Potts Halbert (uncle & nephew) married to Ann & Mary, but the birthdates just don't compute and 'both' men are linked to Painter Heugh. I now think it looks as if Ann was known as Mary for much of the time. What do you think, given the following?
You have the marriage bond and the marriage entry for John Potts Halbert & Ann _ickson. Here is a notice of the marriage from the Newcastle Courant - note the Sedgefield connection:
Tuesday at All Saints Mr J.P. Halbert Wholesale Draper & Button Factor, in this town, to Miss Hixon, of Morden near Sedgefield
Newcastle Courant 1 Feb 1794
They had the following children (is this complete?):
John Potts Halbert baptised 15 Dec 1794 in Castle Garth Chapel
John Potts Halbert of Newcastle, son of John Potts Halbert & Ann was buried 6 Sep 1795, St Edmund
the Bishop, Sedgefield, Co Durham.
We have a burial for Frank Hixon Halbert who was buried 2 Feb 1805 aged 1, s/o John Potts Halbert (Woolen Draper), Painter Heugh (All Saints Burials) - so he was born 1803/4 and given his middle name we can assume that Frank was Ann's son. I don't have a baptism for this child.
Another burial without a baptism:
Richard Halbert buried 17 July 1807, aged 14 years, s/o John Potts Halbert (draper), Painter Heugh, [so born about 1793?]
(All Saints, Burials)
John Potts Halbert and Mary have the following children (please correct me if I have missed any - going a bit bananas here):
Mary Anne Halbert bap 15 Feb 1798 d/o John Potts & Mary Halbert of the parish of All Saints in Newcastle upon Tyne
Hanover Square Presbyterian
Alice baptised 14 June 1799 d/o John Potts & Mary Halbert of the parish of All Saints in Newcastle upon Tyne
Hanover Square Presbyterian
At Gateshead Fell, on the 17th inst [October 1846] aged 47, Alice, daughter of the late John Potts Halbert, Esq, merchant of this town.
Newcastle Journal, 24 Oct 1846
William born 18 March 1800 & baptised 30 March 1800 s/o John Potts & Mary Halbert
Hanover Square Presbyterian
William Halbert buried 1 April 1800 age 0
Burials, All Saints [should be more info for this in the Bishop's Transcripts - I just have an index
entry]
Elizabeth born 3 April 1801 & baptised 13 April 1801 d/o John Potts & Mary Halbert of the parish of All Saints in Newcastle upon Tyne
Hanover Square Presbyterian
The York Herald of 12 May 1880 has a notice of her death: "On the 8th inst at Gateshead, in her
79th year, Miss Eliza Halbert, last surviving d/o the late John Potts Halbert, Esq, late of the Painter
Heugh House, Newcastle."
[bit of a gap into which Frank Hixon & the first Richard fit nicely]
John Potts Halbert born 28 June 1808 & bap 2 August 1808 s/o John Potts & Mary Halbert
Hanover Square, Presbyterian
[this line ends up in Annan, Dumfriesshire and seem to be druggists/chemists by occupation. One of the girls is named Anne Nixon Halbert - see www.familysearch.org]
Richard Jackson Halbert born 19 June 1809 baptised 4 September 1809, son of John Potts & Mary Halbert
Hanover Square Presbyterian
To be continued ...[hit the maximum post size]
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Continuing with the previous post...
Richard Jackson Halbert
There are two marriage bonds for this gentleman - looks as if he may have struck problems first
time around, possibly due to fibbing about his age?, and had to have another go:
On his first attempt, on 4 April 1827 Richard Jackson Hulbert, bachelor, age 21 & upwards, of
St.Hilda's Chapelry, County Durham obtained a licence to marry Jane Atkinson (spinster), age 21 &
upwards, of St.Hilda's Chapelry. St Hilda's in South Shields was at the time a chapelry of Jarrow
parish, so I think this may be the place referred to.
22 May 1827 Richard Jackson Halbert, bachelor, minor, with consent of his mother, his father being
dead, age 17 and upwards, of Boldon, County Durham, son of Ann Halbert, obtained a
licence to marry Jane Atkinson, a spinster, age 21 & upwards.
23 May 1827 Richard Jackson Halbert married Jane Atkinson, Boldon, Durham
You will recall that John Potts Halbert (born about 1768) died in Edinburgh in 1826. Richard
Jackson Halbert was very young to marry - males rarely married that young - must check the date
of birth for the first child. I have previously posted the newspaper notice of the death of Ann
Halbert, widow of John Potts Halbert, who died in Annan, Dumfriesshire in Dec 1840 from memory.
In the 1841 census, Jane Halbert age 30 (but adult ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years
in 1841) is with William Atkinson aged 60, both born in Co. Durham. Also in the household is a 12
year old Thomas Halbert, born in the county.
In 1841, Richard Halbert is on his own in Sedgefield in Co. Durham, a Chemist. In 1851, he is still in
Sedgefield, a Chemist & Grocer & living with a housekeeper Jane Nicholson, whose occupation is
given as Ag Lab. In 1861, he is still in Sedgefield, living on his own and stating that he is unmarried.
Richard Jackson Halbert was buried 24 March 1862, Sedgefield, St Edmund the Bishop, Co Durham.
I think that the sequence of baptisms, the children's names (e.g. Frank Hixon Halbert) and especially the information for Richard Jackson Halbert suggests that John Potts Halbert was married to Ann _ixon who was known as Mary, if only by the officiating minister in the Hanover Square Chapel. Perhaps she was baptised Mary Ann, always known as Ann, but the Hanover Square chap insisted that she be recorded as Mary. Or it could also have been the other way around, and that Ann was informally known as Mary. In either event, at this stage I am leaning towards thinking this is the same woman, although happy to be convinced otherwise. Otherwise John Potts Halbert (born about 1768) would have had to be running two families at the same time, and while this is not impossible, it does not really explain all the info listed above.
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Hi Selden
I spent some time on this line today trying to get my brain around what might have happened given that Ann died in 1840. It didnt make sense for John to have divorced her then for her to be living in the same place as him being referred to as his wife.
Her daughter being named Mary Ann was a clue that she may have been born Mary Ann but referred to as either Mary or Ann.
I have a William born in 1800. Baptised 30 Mar 1800 Hanover Square Chapel-NC,Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England to John Potts and Mary.
I hadnt seen Elizabeth, Richard or Frank before.
These Halberts dont make it easy!
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Oops, yes, I had William, forgot to include him, also his burial. Will amend and also put Alice's death in.
You needed a private act of Parliament to get divorced at this time, so not an option except for the mega rich and influential. People just went off and re-combined with new partners, but this was easier when you were a seaman or labourer - a bit harder for people in trade whose customers would note a new wife suddenly appearing.
Elizabeth & Richard Jackson are there in the non-con records on Ancestry, Hanover Square Presbyterian. I don't have baptisms for the first Richard or for Frank Hixon - just their All Saints burials.
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I forgot to ask where this info came from. This Alice was the one born in 1794 to William and Sarah and who was unmarried?
Sarah, daughter of Alice, in the workhouse.
I can see the birth record on ancestry plus family search.
I don't actually know which Alice was the mother of Sarah Halbert baptised 1822 - I was speculating it could have been the daughter of John Halbert the cork cutter, but in fact it could have been Alice the daughter of John Potts Halbert the draper (the Alice who died unmarried in Gateshead in 1846 - see above post).
I am also speculating that this Sarah Halbert is the one in the workhouse in Newcastle in the 1841 and 1851 censuses. There is a 15 year old Sarah Halbert who is a pauper in the Newcastle upon Tyne workhouse in the 1841 census. There is a 27 year old Sarah Halbert in the same workhouse in the 1851 census, born Newcastle, domestic servant. There might be other candidates but the contents of my head have become somewhat scrambled ??? so I had better pack it in.
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I must have missed the death of William.
The marriage of Robert on ancestry I also havent been able to find even using Hulbert as a search.
Interesting that Richard named his son Thomas. The name starts to creep into the Halbert families around this time in greater numbers. Perhaps Thomas was the only surviving child after the obligatory children named John Potts and Richard.
The birth of Richard in 1793/4 may have given rise to a shotgun wedding if his parents married on 28 Jan 1794.
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One of the Newcastle banks was in trouble around this time - see
https://archive.org/stream/historyofbanksba00philrich#page/390/mode/2up/search/1806
I haven't had the time to read this properly but it might help provide some context to the Halbert bankruptcies.
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The marriage of Robert on ancestry I also havent been able to find even using Hulbert as a search..
Which Robert are you thinking of? The son of William no. 1 & Alice? Poor little mite popped his clogs - see reply #49 (the replies only seem to be numbered if you are on the full site - so not if you are using the mobile site which is the one with lots of blue).
I agree re the birthdate of Richard no. 1 - he was either before or immediately after the marriage if the age at death is correct in the burial entry.
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Joseph the son of William & Alice is a mystery, unless he died after the will of William no. 1 was written but before civil registration started July 1837 and we have just not found his burial yet.
Have to go, but hope you have fun :)
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An interesting snippet about Painter Heugh:
http://hiddennewcastle.homestead.com/files/Hidden_Newcastle__Subterranean_Newcastle_.pdf
The 1827 Historical Account of Newcastle upon Tyne including Gateshead says that interment in the Ballast Hills Burial Ground had a very moderate cost as no funeral service is read, though sometimes a prayer or exhortation may be read. It also says there are more burials in Ballast Hills than in all the church yards in the town. I had assumed the converse would the case.
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It certainly paints a picture of what it was like all that time ago. I wonder if there are old pictures of the place.
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Hi there
I have stumbled across this thread thanks to Google while trying to find a bit more information about my Halbert ancestors.
My 4x great grandfather was John Halbert - a cork cutter in Gateshead. John is mentioned in this thread.
I have some information about him and some of his descendants (obviously more detailed information about the branch that I am part of) but am struggling to get much further back.
I need to re read this thread with my notes in front of me, but it would be good to compare notes some time to see if there is new information there.
Many thanks
John
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hi jpcooper and welcome to rootschat. :)
when you have made a few more posts eg about a particular person you need info on,or commenting on info already given, you will be able to contact other members by pm and vice versa.
it is obviously more helpful for you and others if you use open posts unless living people are involved.
Rootschat has a policy about not mentioning living people.
hope this helps and good luck
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Hi John
Selden has found a tremendous amount of info about the Halberts. Ive managed to put the names, dates etc into my genealogy programme.
Given the size of the families there is still a lot more to find.
Ive also bene looking at William and Alison/Alice Halberts (nee Potts) marriage in Scotland. I have the marriage certificate and also Alisons fathers marriage certificate and some baptisms of other people we believe are her siblings.
Like the English Halberts Williams parents arent at this stage known nor his place of birth or anything
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Hello John
Welcome to Rootschat. You will find some info abt John the cork cutter in this thread, gathered by others than just me, particularly Revolution.
In short, you will see from this thread that we think John's parents were William Halbert, a tailor, and his wife Sarah, surname as yet unknown (though Revolution may have made progress there?). It is possible that Revolution's colourful ancestor, Thomas Halbert, was a younger brother of John the cork cutter. Much of this thread seeks to resolve that question.
William Halbert, father of John the cork cutter, was one of children of William Halbert and Alice Potts, as per Revolution's message above. One of John's children by his second marriage went to seek his fortunes in the gold fields of Australia. Any information you have about John or any of the Halberts would be very helpful in terms of filling out the picture.
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Hi Selden
Sadly not any progress on the marriage. I now have the official register of the marriage plus the marriage certificate.
It says William Jr was "of this parish". It also says he was a gentleman.
This is the best fit for a marriage but the details dont add up. The church itself wasnt the normal church that Williams siblings and parents went to. Why was William in London marrying someone? Was he there on business or trying to set up a business? Was it a shotgun wedding? Williams own children were baptised in multiple different churches but all followed the family religion.
Why did William Jr the tailor die without funds? What happened?
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Hi Revolution
Sorry for the delay in getting back - has been a chaotic couple of weeks at work and no sign of easing up yet.
Yes, the marriage is a puzzle. Also, what happened to Joseph, another son of William senior & Alice, and still alive at the time of William senior's will.
There was a constant stream of colliers going back and forth between Newcastle and London, and you will recall that George Potts Halbert, the master mariner, ended up living in London. Perhaps William Halbert junior (father of John the cork cutter) found his way to London at some point, perhaps in search of economic opportunity, even as a tailor.
I share your question mark, however, about whether your William would describe himself as a gentleman. Have you had a chance to try tracing the William Halbert who married Sarah Kemp in London forward, to see if he can be otherwise accounted for, i.e. whether he is a different person?
A pity John has not come back. Some of the information he has could possibly have led back via a different route and revealed something new.
Will be in touch as soon as I come across anything that may be of use to you.
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Hi SelDen
We know Joseph died in 1838 in Newcastle upon Tyne but it seems strange he didnt get married and there are no other events in his life. In the same year a Mary Halbert also died.
I did do a search for William and Sarah Halbert in London and around London but never found them. Ill have to have another look to see if I missed something the first time
John Potts Jr ended up in London after living in Scotland as a chemist and druggist.
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If anyone is following this thread a direct male descendant of Thomas Halbert born about 1806 in Newcastle Upon Tyne and died in 1865 in Gisborne, Poverty Bay, New Zealand took a YDNA test. At the same time an Australian male Halbert took the same test. The results of the direct paternal line test have shown us we have a common ancestor.
We are currently upgrading the YDNA results to help us determine who the common paternal ancestor is. Based on the extensive records we have our Thomas should fit into one of the attached families.
We still have a lot to find.
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Thanks to another rootschat member (Wolfiesmith) we have another daughter of John Potts Halbert 1768-1826
Isabella Halbert of full age married James Bell of full age on 15 August 1841 in The Parish Church, Sunderland. Both were living in High street. James occupation was gardener and his father was also James Bell
The witnesses were John Decker and George Lord.
Sadly no age is given for Isabella.
I also ordered the death certificate of Joseph Halbert born about 1801-1803 who died in 1838 and his daughter Mary Halbert who died in the same year. These are two previously unknown people. Josephs father was William Halbert who married Sarah (surname unknown).
At this stage I havent found who Joseph married or if he had more kids. Joseph was also a cork cutter. Sarah Lee (nee Halbert) was Josephs sister and the informant at both deaths
This also reopens the mystery of what happened to Joseph Halbert born in 1779 and mentioned in William Halbert Srs will in 1803.
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A cousin of mine has been looking for any record of Joseph Halbert 1803-1838 marrying prior to his daughter Mary Halbert being born in 1837 and dying in 1838.
We have her death and Josephs death but not her birth/baptism or Josephs birth/baptism. We cant find Josephs marriage. Perhaps his daughter was registered under her mothers name if illegitimate?
Both Mary and Joseph died in High Bridge, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
Any clues to find Josephs marriage would be appreciated.
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Hi
I believe Joseph Halbert Bn 1803 was married to Jane Snowie in Aberdeen in 1829. They had 2 children George and Margaret. Jane remarried after Joseph's death in 1838 and George (a tailer)
moved to Newcastle. I have to assume this is the same Joseph or why would his son move to Newcastle and become a tailer which was the Halbert family business.