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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Mofamily on Thursday 31 October 13 10:28 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I really would appreciate a second opinion.
My gg grandfather was baptised St Helens, Bishop Auckland in 1820. Of this I am certain as we have always held his original baptism record.
He was very easy to following after that from 1841 - Offerton,(although A**y had transcribed as Nolbern or something), 1851 Hylton, 1861 Pallion, 1871 Pallion, 1881 Pallion, 1891 Pallion until his death in 1891. He was a Carpenter. - So that part was sorted.
However, going backwards was a little more difficult. His mother on his baptism record was Elizabeth, Abode near Morley. Single lady. Couldn't find any other family members baptised in St Helens so gave up. Until I found a Merchant Navy record for a Christopher Holburn.
Thought I was on to a winner. Christopher Holburn, Carpenter, residing in Hylton when not at sea. The only bugbear was his date of birth - 1826. I chose to ignore this and was thrilled to see he had stated his place of birth as Hurworth. Didn't know where Hurworth was at the time, but when it was only a few miles from St Helens, Bishop Auckland I began my search.
Hurworth had a good many Holburn (Holborn, Holbron, Holbourn, Holbourne, Holborne's etc) baptised married etc. I even found an Elizabeth who fitted the bill and did a nice little tree following her 1st and second marriages to her death and also her parents and her father was a weaver. Noted that the main profession was in the Wool Industry and that fitted in even better because Christopher had married a lady who was born in Darlington whose father was a woolcomber.
Dah dah!!!! - sorted.
But now I have my doubts. Is the merchant navy record his despite the year of birth.
What do you think?
Thanks Mo.
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Didn't know where Hurworth was at the time, but when it was only a few miles from St Helens, Bishop Auckland I began my search.
I don't know which Hurworth you mean, but Hurworth on Tees is 12 miles from St. Helen's, south of Darlington.
Stan
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I'm a tad confused Mo, which isn't a difficult thing to do :D
Who is it you think Christopher might be? Where did you get the 1826 year of birth and what did it not tally with? Was the merchant navy record for a Christopher from St Helens? What is your gg grandfather's name?
Sorry for all the questions but I'm finding it hard to know what it is you want a second opinion on ???
Jan ;)
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When I started family history research I followed a particular individual and his descendants at some cost in time and certificates only to find out that there was simply a coincidence in time and place - he was not one of my ancestors.
You will find that in many families of that time there were family naming traditions such as the eldest son always was christened Joseph or each eldest son was name after his grandfather, so cousins would have identical names and be close to each other in years.
What is more the family might have a trade that many were trained in.
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The Merchant Navy record is from FindMyPast and clearly states Christopher Holburn, born 18th May 1826, Hurworth, Durham, first went to sea as a carpenter in 1844, age when ticketed 21 (1847), when unemployed resides at Hylton. The Christopher Holburn that Mo has found in the censuses is a Shipwright, (Ship Carpenter in 1881) and is the only one in the censuses, the merchant navy record shows no voyages from 1845 to 1854 so he should be in the 1851 census. It certainly looks like the same person in spite of the age difference.
Stan
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From the The Newcastle Courant Friday, September 29, 1848; Marriages; At Sunderland on the 24 inst., Mr. Christopher Holburn to Miss Elizabeth Barton.
Stan
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Just a suggestion, it could be that the original baptism record you have is for a child that died, and a later child was given the same name.
Stan
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The Merchant Navy record is from FindMyPast and clearly states Christopher Holburn, born 18th May 1826, Hurworth, Durham, first went to sea as a carpenter in 1844, age when ticketed 21 (1847), when unemployed resides at Hylton. The Christopher Holburn that Mo has found in the censuses is a Shipwright, (Ship Carpenter in 1881) and is the only one in the censuses, the merchant navy record shows no voyages from 1845 to 1854 so he should be in the 1851 census. It certainly looks like the same person in spite of the age difference.
Stan
Thanks everyone for your interest and thanks Stan - the above is exactly what I wanted to hear and thanks for the marriage info, although I already know that for certain.
Thanks again
Mo
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I had a similar problem with my grandfather. Have his birth cert 1869, but spent a year trying to find his death. He was in the Merchant Navy as well, and when I finally found him he had given his birth as 1874...but kept the same birth date. Sent for medal card from National Archives and lo & behold, it was him. Was then able to find his death.
Sounds as if it was a common practice among sailors to give false ages! ;D
annie
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Thanks Annie
That's even more encouraging as his birth date, i.e. day and month, were the same.
Thanks Mo
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Hi, I know this is a very old post but I wondered if you have since found any
further informationn on Christopher Holburn's mother?
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Hi Fiona,
Welcome to RootsChat ;)
Mofamily was online just a few days ago so should pick up on your reply.
Regards
Sarah
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Hi Fiona
Welcome to Rootschat. Sorry I didn't pick up your message earlier. OH too quick on the delete e-mails button. ::)
Anyway. Are you related to Christopher Holburn?
In answer to your question, I am afraid I am not too sure. I followed up a couple of possibilities and I have placed them on my "speculative tree".
As you can gather, I concentrated my research in the Hurworth-on-Tees area. That is because on Christopher's Merchant Navy record it states born in Hurworth. He was in fact Baptised at St Helens Church in Bishop Auckland which is not too far from Hurworth in the scheme of things. It said his mother, Elizabeth, was from Morley. At first I thought it was Yorkshire Morley, but found out that there is a village called Morley just a few miles from St Helens. However, having looked at Parish records there were no Holburns (or other variations) to be found in any Parish in the area except Hurworth where there were quite a few so it was very positive.
I began looking for an Elizabeth Holburn assuming she was a young girl with an illegitimate child, but no joy. I did, however, find two Elizabeth's who were "getting on a bit" ;D. The first was an Elizabeth Holbourn baptised on 25.10.1789 in Hurworth which would make her 31 when she had him. (the daughter of James and Eleanor - he was a Weaver, which I felt was relevant as Christopher's wife's father was a Woolcomer from Darlington so in the same industry). The second Elizabeth was an Elizabeth Holbron baptised 5.10.1790 (the daughter of a Thomas and Elizabeth - profession not mentioned), which would make her 30 when she had him.
Following on, I found an Elizabeth Holbourn marrying a John Bell on 26.1.1822 in Hurworth. Two years after Christopher was born. (don't know which Elizabeth). Now, John Bell was 49 when he married her and she was 34 and they were named as Spinster and Bachelor, so looked like a marriage on convenience to me (or maybe that's just me). They had a daughter Susanna and when she was pregnant with their son, John, her husband died aged 55 in 1828.
Then, in the Hurworth records there is a entry for an Elizabeth Bell marrying a William Rate (Rait) in 1830. They had a daughter called Elizabeth and a son William, but on the Census in 1851 she was named as a Widow working as a Charwoman with her daughter Elizabeth (factory worker) in Clay Row, Darlington. She died in 1859 Brunswick Street Darlington and her age corresponded with either of the Elizabeth's I began with.
Very convoluted I know, and purely speculative.
Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance. Let me know how you are related.
Mo
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Hi Mo,
Thank you for getting back to me.
It is a bit complicated, but I THINK I may be related to the family..
It is a long story, but I have a group of paternal DNA matches who all connect to eachother on Christopher Holburn and his wife. (My family is predominantly from the northeast of England and these DNA matches don't have any other connections to the area).
I took an interest in Christopher as he was living in Sunderland in the 1880s around the same time my great grandfather was born.
My great grandfather (Joseph Brown b 1888) was supposedly a foundling adopted by a local shipwright in Sunderland. Through DNA I found his biological father (Joseph Blumer, son of another ship building family) but his mother remains a mystery. I believe she was likely a servant to the Blumer family and I wanted to learn more about Christopher's mother to see if she may have had any daughters or nieces with connections to Sunderland.
I appreciate you sharing all of this information with me,
Fiona
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Sorry I forgot to add to my last reply, I also have a DNA match to a lady who is a direct descendant of the parents of the Elizabeth b 1790 in Hurworth (parents Thomas and Elizabeth).
Thanks again :)
Hi Fiona
Welcome to Rootschat. Sorry I didn't pick up your message earlier. OH too quick on the delete e-mails button. ::)
Anyway. Are you related to Christopher Holburn?
In answer to your question, I am afraid I am not too sure. I followed up a couple of possibilities and I have placed them on my "speculative tree".
As you can gather, I concentrated my research in the Hurworth-on-Tees area. That is because on Christopher's Merchant Navy record it states born in Hurworth. He was in fact Baptised at St Helens Church in Bishop Auckland which is not too far from Hurworth in the scheme of things. It said his mother, Elizabeth, was from Morley. At first I thought it was Yorkshire Morley, but found out that there is a village called Morley just a few miles from St Helens. However, having looked at Parish records there were no Holburns (or other variations) to be found in any Parish in the area except Hurworth where there were quite a few so it was very positive.
I began looking for an Elizabeth Holburn assuming she was a young girl with an illegitimate child, but no joy. I did, however, find two Elizabeth's who were "getting on a bit" ;D. The first was an Elizabeth Holbourn baptised on 25.10.1789 in Hurworth which would make her 31 when she had him. (the daughter of James and Eleanor - he was a Weaver, which I felt was relevant as Christopher's wife's father was a Woolcomer from Darlington so in the same industry). The second Elizabeth was an Elizabeth Holbron baptised 5.10.1790 (the daughter of a Thomas and Elizabeth - profession not mentioned), which would make her 30 when she had him.
Following on, I found an Elizabeth Holbourn marrying a John Bell on 26.1.1822 in Hurworth. Two years after Christopher was born. (don't know which Elizabeth). Now, John Bell was 49 when he married her and she was 34 and they were named as Spinster and Bachelor, so looked like a marriage on convenience to me (or maybe that's just me). They had a daughter Susanna and when she was pregnant with their son, John, her husband died aged 55 in 1828.
Then, in the Hurworth records there is a entry for an Elizabeth Bell marrying a William Rate (Rait) in 1830. They had a daughter called Elizabeth and a son William, but on the Census in 1851 she was named as a Widow working as a Charwoman with her daughter Elizabeth (factory worker) in Clay Row, Darlington. She died in 1859 Brunswick Street Darlington and her age corresponded with either of the Elizabeth's I began with.
Very convoluted I know, and purely speculative.
Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance. Let me know how you are related.
Mo
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Hi Fiona.
Very interesting. Need to do more digging. I haven't done a DNA profile, but my cousin has, so will discuss it with her. Curiouser and curiouser. 🤔.
Mo