RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cambridgeshire => Topic started by: Hampshire Lass on Tuesday 05 November 13 22:09 GMT (UK)
-
Can anyone please help me out with this family? :)
James Butler was born in 1826 in Swaffen Bulbeck. The 1841 census shows him living with his father (presumably) John Butler, who was born in 1806 and also with his grandmother (presumably) Sarah Butler, who was born in 1776.
He also has siblings.....Charlotte (1828)
Charles (1830)
Isaac (1834)
Matilda (1839)
On the 1851 census his father John has a new wife who I belief is Mary Ann Brighton, who he married in 1847. I am not so interested in Mary Ann for the moment.
I would be very grateful if someone could tell me who the first wife of John Butler is. I will then hopefully find the mother of James, Charlotte, Charles, Isaac and Matilda.
Many thanks :)
-
If nothing else turns up - Matilda's birth is on freebmd so a copy of her birth cert will show her mothers name
-
Thanks Carole.
I should have known better. Must be too late in the day and I'm not thinking straight. ::)
-
There is a burial on 3.2.1841 for a Jemima Butler aged 35 at St Mary's Swaffham Bulbeck
-
Ooh, thanks Carole, that's looking interesting.
-
No marriage or childrens baptisms on FS to check if she's "the one" but I think it's highly likely
-
Thanks so much for your help Carole. I think you're right and she is "the one" :)
I sat here for a while and thought......"how on earth did Carole find that burial"
Then I remembered a source I have hidden at the back of a cupboard and lo and behold I've found the record. Doubtless the same source you used :) Fancy me forgetting I had it.
I don't think the Swaffen records are online anywhere and so it would need someone with the Parish Records to confirm she's the mother but she is certainly the only likely burial. Mind you I don't know her maiden name.
-
Mind you I don't know her maiden name.
Yes - that's the tricky bit and you don't know if she was from Swaffham or elsewhere. We know she was born 1805 (ish) and FS have about 8 Jemima births in different parts of Cambridge between 1804-1806 but that assumes she was b Cambridge
Hopefully - somebody may have some local transcriptions to save you having to buy a birth cert
-
My old Cambs Baptism Index which goes up to 1837 shows baptisms of the following children of John and Jemima in Swaffham Bulbeck. (If you've been searching against Swaffen rather than the correct spelling of Swaffham that's why you're finding nothing online).
James 1827
Charlotte 1827
Charles 1830
Isaac 1833
Jeremiah 1836
A member submission on the IGI shows a marriage in Swaffham Bulbeck on 16 Oct 1825 between John Butler and Jemima Smith
The Baptism Index shows a baptism in Swaffham Bulbeck in 1806 of Jemima, daughter of John and Sarah Smith. An IGI member submission (unreliable, but this entry looks OK) shows a baptism on 19 Jan 1806 and a burial on 3 Feb 1841 - it also shows the baptism dates for all the children, other than James which it's missed!
David
-
That's fantastic David, thank you very much indeed. :)
Is it too cheeky of me to ask if there is a baptism for John, born 1806?
-
Nothing in Swaffham Bulbeck, three in 1808 in other parishes of Cambs, but these look too late:
Horningsea son of John and Alice
Stow cum Quy son of James and Susannah
Ely St Mary son of John and Susannah (this one looks too far from Swaffham)
The member submission which looks to be well researched hasn't got a date for him either. Norfolk possibly? No. 1851 gives his birthplace as Swaffham Bulbeck. His second marriage post 1841 to Mary Ann will give his father's name. (IGI extracted shows a marriage in Bottisham on 27 Nov 1847 to Mary Ann Brighton where his father's name is William). But there's another marriage in Fulbourne in 1842 to mary Ann Ison which might also be him - Fulbourne's only a couple of miles or so further on from Swaffham Bulbeck
David
-
Ok, thanks so much for looking again David.
I've found him and his second wife on subsequent censuses and he says he was born in 1804 in Swaffen Bulbeck. I realised I got the 1806 date from the 1841 census, which wouldn't be precise.
Thanks for all your help. I've made progress here. :)
-
I'm not convinced about the 1847 marriage to Mary Ann Brighton - on Freebmd there are only three names shown - there's a female missing. Camdex at https://www.camdex.org.uk/search.cfm also gives the name Mary A Green as a possible partner.
The Baptism Index has no Mary Ann Brighton at the right time but there is a Mary A Green in 1814 in Horningsea, which is where she gives as her birthplace in a couple of censuses. They don't appear to have had children so a child's birth cert is no use in trying to pin down the marriage to get John's father.
-
No, I wasn't absolutely convinced of that marriage either David and had not included it in my research for now. It sounds as though it's wrong and she was Mary Ann Green, so thank you for that info to.
This is actually a tree I'm doing for a friend and so I'm trying not to send for too many certificates for her. I'm a "certificate" person when I'm doing my own tree though but it's different when it's your own.
Overall I have made progress hare and am happy to know a little more on this line so thank you very much indeed for your help. :)
-
Banns called at Swaffham Bulbeck on 21 November 1847
John Butler, widr, otp and Maryanne Brighton wid of Bottisham.
Married at Bottisham.
Selina
-
Aha thank you Selina. So John did marry Mary Ann Brighton and that wasn't her maiden name. Thanks so much for that extra information. :)
-
Hi, I did say I wasn't interested in Mary Ann too much but from a family history point of view I've just looked into her further.
I found her on the 1841 census.....wrongly transcribed on one site as Mary Briton. She's with her husband Richard, who subsequently dies in 1843.
Also at the address is Isaac Brighton, who is 18.....too old to be their son, so I presume he's Richard's brother.
and also Sarah, age 7.
I found a marriage in Bottisham 2.12.1834. Mary Anne Green married Richard Brighton.
Sarah born 1834 is probably their daughter and on the 1851 she is in service.
So that ties in nicely with your research David and Selina. Thank you both very much.
-
Can anyone please help me out with this family? :)
James Butler was born in 1826 in Swaffen Bulbeck. The 1841 census shows him living with his father (presumably) John Butler, who was born in 1806 and also with his grandmother (presumably) Sarah Butler, who was born in 1776.
He also has siblings.....Charlotte (1828)
Charles (1830)
Isaac (1834)
Matilda (1839)
On the 1851 census his father John has a new wife who I belief is Mary Ann Brighton, who he married in 1847. I am not so interested in Mary Ann for the moment.
I would be very grateful if someone could tell me who the first wife of John Butler is. I will then hopefully find the mother of James, Charlotte, Charles, Isaac and Matilda.
Many thanks :)
A quick reply based on the free index for the 1801-1837 period on the CFHS website. I will see if I have any more info a little later when I get home.
(All at Swaffham Bulbeck)
Charlotte bapt 1827 d. of John and Jemima
Charles bapt 1830 s. of John and Jemima
Isaac bapt 1833 s. of John and Jemima
Matilda was (I assume) after the 1837 cutoff
Also...
James bapt 1827 s. of John and Jemima
Jeramiah bapt 1836 s. of John and Jemima
James possibly died in 1835, as there is a James S Butler burial, but it says "7w" rather than "7y" and there isn't an equiv baptism in Swaffham.
I should have some more info later.
-
Thanks ReadyDale, that's wonderful.
The death you have for James isn't their James because he is my friends direct ancestor and died in old age. There is no Jeremiah with the family on the 1841 census so perhaps he died.
PS just realised, as David pointed out several posts back, that I've been thinking it was Swaffen, not Swaffham. I'm not familiar with the area at all and that was careless of me.....sorry everyone.
-
Back again!
As expected, Matilda was bapt 1839
There is a marriage of John Butler and Jemima Smith (sorry!) in Swaffham Bulbeck 16th Oct 1825 which looks good. Witnesses were Susan Miller and Lucy Manning.
Jeramiah has me confused!!!
No burial for Jeramiah, so I looked him up and in 1841 there is a Jeramiah living with a Rebecca Butler. Obviously no family relationship shiown.
Forward to 1851 and the same Jeramiah is with a Rebecca. But they are with a George Butler (age 21) and his family. Rebecca (54) is George's mother, whilst Jeramiah (15) is shown as George's brother (so also Rebecca's son????).
Interestingly, Jeramiah (s.of John and Jemima) is baptised on the same day of 1836 as John (s.of Samuel and Rebeccah). maybe there is some confusion there!
-
Mmmm, see what you mean. He was easy to track through each of the censuses and there seems no doubt he's the son of Rebecca and George is his brother. I checked all of the censuses and on the 1911 he is living with George again.....both widowers.
Although there is a nice gap in the births of all of the Butler children which Jeremiah fitted snugly into, it looks more as though the Parish Records are wrong, or the transcription is.
Think I'll be safer to delete him from the family :)
Thanks so much for your help.
-
No problem.
There are quite a few Butler's in Swaffham Bulbeck (and the adjacent Swaffham Prior), but I suppose it's quite a common name.
If you need anything else looked up, give me a shout.
-
Mmmm, see what you mean. He was easy to track through each of the censuses and there seems no doubt he's the son of Rebecca and George is his brother. I checked all of the censuses and on the 1911 he is living with George again.....both widowers.
Although there is a nice gap in the births of all of the Butler children which Jeremiah fitted snugly into, it looks more as though the Parish Records are wrong, or the transcription is.
Think I'll be safer to delete him from the family :)
Thanks so much for your help.
Unfortunately, there is a burial for a John Butler, age 2 in 1838. This may be the same John that was baptised on the same day as Jeramiah. If so, we might never know whether he was indeed son of Samuel and Rebecca (as per the baptism register), or whether he was in fact the baby that fitted nicely in to the gap of baptisms of John and Jemima that Jeramiah seemed to be (and the baptism register being muddled).Oh well!!
-
Thanks ReadyDale,
Since they were baptised on the same day it's tempting to say that the priest twisted the parents around.....very very tempting.
Jeremiah is an "alien" name in the family, whereas John.....very tempting.
After all there is about a 5 year "John shaped" gap :)
Never mind, we will never know, since the parents had unfortunately died by 1911 and so didn't state on the census how many children they had :)
Thanks again for your help.