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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: Genie24 on Monday 11 November 13 20:04 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for information for my branch of the Imison family. My great X 3 grandfather was born in Horsehouse, Yorkshire in March 1810. He and his sisters and brother ( Eliza, Caroline, Mary and James) were all baptised in Horsehouse and his brother, James, who died in infancy and father, also Joseph (1774-1814) are buried there. His mother, Mary (1783-1829) is buried in Grinton, near Reeth. Joseph moved to Sunderland and married my Great X 3 grandmother Eleanor Barron in St. Peter's Church, Monkwearmoth on August 7th 1831. He owned a draper's shop in Church Street. All of their children (Joseph, Caroline, George, Eliza and Mary) were baptised in St. Peter's. I have found a birth for a Joseph Imison born in Middleham, Yorkshire in 1774 with father named as Richard and mother Mary. I am aware that there are many branches of the Imison family in Yorkshire but am hoping that someone has information that can help me to get past this point.
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Genie24
Do you have any inkling that Joseph's sisters Caroline & Mary also had a Millinery business in Newcastle in the 1830's?
Caroline Imison had a millinery business on 6, Blackett Street, Newcastle, in 1836, because in that year 1836 she inserts this advertisement. Earlier in 1831, she inserted another advertisement for her business which was in 128, Pilgrim Street. She sells Dresses, Pelisses, and French Corsets. She announced to her Ladies of Newcastle she had recently returned from London with and elegant and fashionable assortment of Millinery-all before the days of the railway.
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Saturday, November 5, 1836; Issue 8451.
Miss Imison respectfully informs ladies of Newcastle that her WINTER FASHIONS will be ready for inspection on Wednesday 9th November. An Apprentice and Improver wanted at 6, Blackett Street.
However, she died sometime before March 31 1837, because this advertisement was inserted, with her sister Mary taking over the business.
Advertisements & Notices .
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, March 31, 1837; Issue 8472.
Notice: All Debts due to the late Caroline Imison, Blackett Street, Newcastle, are requested to be paid immediately to either of the administrators, Jo. Imison, Monkwearmouth, or Mary Imison 6 Blackett Street, Newcastle and all claims against the Estate must be sent in immediately in order that they may be discharged.
M. Imison: Begs respectfully to acquaint the ladies of Newcastle and its vicinity that she intends continuing the MILLINERY and DRESS MAKING BUSINESS carried on by her late sister C. Imison and solicits a Share of the Patronage so liberally bestowed on her which it will ever be her Study to merit. As the stock must be disposed of to M. I. visiting London for the Spring Fashions a considerable sacrifice will be made to induce a speedy sale.
Mary inserts annual adverts about her business in 6, Blackett Street, and in 1840 she married:
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, April 3, 1840; Issue 8628.
The 31st ult, at New Court Chapel, in this town, by the Rev. George Sample, Mr. Joseph Glover, junr., to Miss Immison both of this town.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
I was delighted to receive your reply! My requests for help with this elusive family have been unsuccessful so far. I thought perhaps Mary had died in in infancy as I couldn't find anything about her. This new information, including her marriage. gives me a lot to go on. I have since found a marriage for a Joseph Imison Glover who is clearly their son. I will have to see if I can find those newspaper advertisements. Caroline died on the 8th March 1837 but is buried in Harrogate. I got that information from her mother's grave in Grinton where her father and sister are included in the inscription. Another sister, Eliza, died in 1830 and is buried in Manchester.
Are you connected with the Imison's? If so do you any additional information? I am truly grateful for you taking the time to respond to the post.
Julie
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Hi Julie
Sorry no connection.
A few more
MARRIED: At Sunderland, on the 22nd Inst., Mr. Peter Charles Ostrom to Miss Mary Imison.
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, January 6, 1854; Issue 9344.
Francis MCDONALD, 20, private in the 26th Regiment charged with stealing at Bishopwearmouth on the 12th November a silver watch the property of Joseph Imison, Guilty, Four Months hard labour.
The Newcastle Courant etc (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, January 10, 1873; Issue 10333.
MARRIED: Newcastle on 2nd inst., Joseph Imison, youngest son of Joseph Glover Dilston, to Mary Morrallee, eldest daughter of the late M M Youll, Newcastle.
Joseph Imison Glover had a chemists business in Newcastle. From around 1887 to 1892 a Mrs Imison was landlady of the Lord Crewe’s Arms, Blanchland.
Tom
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A few More:
The York Herald (York, England), Saturday, October 15, 1864; pg. [1]; Issue 4797. 19th Century British Library Newspapers: Part II
Joseph Imison, Windmill, Benton Brick and Tile Manufactory, near Thirsk, wants a situation as FOREMAN or CONTRACTOR, Has been 20 years with his last Master, a character may be had if required.
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times (Hull, England), Friday, August 13, 1847; Issue 3264.
Stations of Wesleyan Preachers: Whitby & Darlington District, Middleham, John Imison & Joseph Chapman.
Tom
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The Joseph Imison who advertises himself as wanting work is a tile maker in 1861 Census, with a wife Mary, born Retford, Nottinghamshire-he himself is born in Masham, Yorkshire, so one of your Middleham Imisons.
Clearly a church person, they have two boys called Elijah & Elisha, and daughter called Alice, so maybe into Christopher Robin too!
Do you have access to census information, if not, then Joseph Imison, born Horsehead, is living at 21, Crowtree Road, Bishopwearmouth, an accountant by trade, with daughter Caroline, 13 & son Joseph, 12, both bn. Bishopwearmouth. He dies in that area in 1855.
In the 1861 census there are two brothers, Joseph & Thomas Imison living at same household, Joseph is a coal trimmer with a large family. In 1833, Joseph, no doubt the accountant, as he can vote, he is in the Poll book, has a house in Church Street at Monkwearmouth Shore Township.
I think that the Joseph Imison who had his watch stolen in 1854, is the Joseph above, who in 1833 is in Monkwearmouth Shore, and the same one who dies in 1855.
Tom
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I don't have current access to census records but when I did I printed them and attached them on my Ancestry Family Tree. Joseph is missing from the 1841 census but he is known to be alive then. His wife Eleanor is living with their two children Joseph and Caroline, my great X 2 grandmother. I am still trying to trace Joseph. Maybe he was visiting his parents in Yorkshire or maybe helping out with the business in Newcastle. On the 1851 census his wife is missing but known to be alive. She died at my great, great grandparent's house in 1878. His occupation is given as accountant but on Caroline's marriage certificate is occupation is given as draper. I have a Newcastle Journal advertisement regarding his shop and premises in Church Street - to Let following his retirement from business in 1839. At first I thought it was his father's business but he died in Yorkshire. I think he just sold the business then maybe went back to it later.
I have the 1861 census of the Imison brothers but I can't find a connection to our family yet. They were born in Sunderland. Maybe my great X 3 came to Sunderland as family were already here. The watch incident is very interesting.
I can't find the Blackett Street and Pilgrim Street shop advertisement. I have looked on Find My Past and Genes Reunited. Where did you find them? Does it mention a name of the shops?
I am following up the Tile Manufactory. The trouble is, there are a lot of Joseph Imisons who have a wife called Mary and they tend to name the children the same too.
Thanks again for all the information. It has given me a lot to go on and I have learned that the family move to Kent.
Julie
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By the way, the Mary Imison who married Peter Charles Ostram was my great, great grandmother's sister. Peter Charles Ostram was born in Sweden and was 14 years her senior. My great, great grandfather Edward Anderson was boarding with them at 24 Wear Street, Sunderland at the time of his marriage. I think perhaps they were friends and my great grandfather was named Charles. Edward was also born in Sweden. He is another mystery. I have an almost full account of him after he came here around 1861. They married in December 1862. He was a mariner so I have his Certificate of Competency but it also states 6 years foreign service. I need to find his records in Sweden but it is proving very difficult. All I know is his date of birth 4th October 1837 in Gothenburg. I thought I found him on Family Search but the father's name was Anders Anderson when it is given as Oliver Anderson on the marriage certificate. He signs his name Andersson with a double 's'. I think my ancestors did all of this on purpose just to keep my busy unravelling their secrets!
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Hi Genie
The newspapers advertisements comes from 19th century British Newspapers available free from my local library online (Leeds), the Newcastle Courant is one of the newspapers. the Newcastle Journal and Sunderland newspapers are from the British Newspaper Archive available either through Find My Past, or through an account with the company itself. In fact there are a number of articles about the Imnison family in this archive, which I sometimes subscribe too, taking out a 2 day membership.
http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
There is a mention of the death of Eleanor in this newspaper:
Friday 18 January 1878 , Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette , Tyne and Wear, England, if you go to the website you get a sample of the entry, but have to pay for the full one.
The Newcastle Journal in 1915 carried a report of the death of a Joseph Imison, a chemist in Folkestone "—At Folkestone, the 18th June, after much suffering, Joseph Imison, chemist, formerly of this city, ... "Monday 21 June 1915 , Newcastle Journal , Tyne and Wear, England
Type: FamilyNotice Words: 392 Page: 4 Tags: none
Is that one of yours too, as you say you have learnt the family moved to Kent, and one of the Imison's married a chemist.
Tom
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Yes there is a report of the marriage of Peter C Ostram in the Saturday 24 January 1852 , Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury , Tyne and Wear, England
Type: FamilyNotice Words: 1741 Page: 8 Tags: none
—On the 22nd inst. Mr Peter C. Ostram etc, again you will have to subscribe to get the rest.
Tom
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Hi Genie24
Do you have a tree on ancestry with name kittykat224? I have had a look in the Swedish Books. If it is your tree, where did you get the name Johanna Lang from?
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Yes that is my tree. Are we connected in some way? My great, great grandfather Edward Anderson was born in Gothenburg, Sweden on 4th October 1837. I found his date of birth on his Mariner's Certificate of competency. I found a baptism on Familysearch of an Eduard Andersson born on that date and christened on the 9th October in Ljung, Goteborg Och Bohus, Sweden. The mother is named as Johanna Lang and the father Anders Andersson. He is the youngest of 6 children. There may be more - Carl b. 1828, Gustaf b. 1830, Hermann b, 1831, Anna Johanna b. 1833, Christina b. 1835, Eduard b. 1837. However, I have his marriage certificate and his father is named as Oliver Anderson - Master Mariner. I have been unable to find any trace of him so assuming he remained in Sweden.I found a birth of a Johanna Lang with father named as Olof Lang. Perhaps Anders used that name to avoid confusion. I put these into my tree hoping it would throw up some hints but they are not confirmed names. All of the children have hints attached showing them on Gothenburg passenger lists. I don't have a current Ancestry subscription so I can't view them at the moment but I seem to remember they travelled to Hull. I have several records of an Edward Anderson (signature spelt Andersson with a double 's' on marriage certificate) travelling to the United States. Perhaps his famiy settled there. He is absent from several census records and died in Sep-Dec quarter 1915 in Sunderland. I have my reservations about this information even though the birth date is the same. I have found several Oliver Andersons living in Sunderland and am convinced it is a family name. Also the Johanna Lang with father Olof would be too young to be the mother of these children. I am getting somewhere with the Imisons but not very far with the Andersons as I am struggling to find Swedish sources and my efforts to learn Swedish so I can understand them is not very successful. I would be very grateful for any help or advice regarding this. I have his statement of service from the Merchant Service after arrival in England around 1861. It states 6 years foreign service (see letter from Consul) National Archives and Maritime Museum say I have to find the record myself and contact the Swedish Port he worked from. I have two trees that I haven't made public - Edward Anderson Unconfirmed and Edward Anderson with Oliver Link. The data I have for these trees are based purely on conjecture.
Regards Julie
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Hi Julie,
No we are not connected. I was interested in your plight and thought I would take a wee look. I traced Johanna Lang (Lång) all the way back to her birth. This Johanna was a daughter of an Olof Lång, he was a soldier. The name Lång is a soldier's name. A new recruit in Sweden at that time was given a name and these names would normally continue in the family. I soon realised that this Johanna was not Edward's mother.
The name Andersson is the normal way of spelling it here in Sweden. Of course there are always exceptions. The idea is patronymic.... the son of Anders. Anders+son.
Anyway I will look a little deeper and see if I can dig up something.
Ian
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Hi Julie
The Edward you found with father Anders Andersson and mother Johanna Lang from Ljung I believe to be him. I have traced the family back to Anders’ birth. In one of the books the priest’s assistant had written “säges vara gift i England” which means that he was said to have married in England. This was written in the book for the years 1861-1868. I looked at the German Sailor papers you have and it is written that he was born in Gothenburg, Nygreen. According to the books his last residence was a place called Nyborg. This must be him. It seems to be too much of a coincidence. His brother Gustaf looks to have left with him. The only problem being is the date of him leaving which is 1868 (if that is what it says – hard to read) also there is something else written which could explain why he left. Which I cannot read either…..yet! I have gone through loads of pages looking for him and his brother but to no avail. The person who wrote this must have written wrong or something, or, he came back during his sailor service for a visit. I will look further into that later on.
Johanna Lang from Hjertum with father Olof Lang was a red herring. They could be related. Lang is really “Lång”. Again a soldier’s name meaning long.
I was thinking of Oliver Anderson which I must say is not Swedish. I think it is Olof - the English equivalent. I will look further into this too. Maybe an uncle. As I said earlier there was something I couldn’t read from the books which might be a reason he wrote Oliver as his father. They might have had a fight over something. I will try to work this out.
There are a number of Anderssons as sailors in the books. They could be related. Also there is no evidence written in the books that Anders was a sailor.
There is no evidence of this family going to America that I have seen written in the books.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Thank you so much for the information. I am extremely grateful. Before I began to trace my family, no-one had any idea that Edward was born in Sweden. I would love to find the answer to this mystery in my father's lifetime. He is 86 in August. The census says Edward was a British Subject but I'm not entirely sure what that means- if he was born of British parentage of he gained British status after arrival. I looked on the National Archives for immigration papers but found nothing. His application to be examined for his certificate of competency only gives Gothenburg as his place of birth. If the parish was given it would be so much easier. The date of birth is 4th October 1837 and this is the only one I can find on Familysearch. I have noticed that I haven't attached this document so I will have to do it. Another thing is the names of parents and siblings. There is no evidence of these names passed down through the family. Andersson is such a common name and I fear I may never find him. I am hoping the answer lies with his seaman's records.
The other documents I have attached I believe to be him but have no confirmation or firm evidence. On one he is travelling to Boston with the ticket paid for by his father. I will have to look in to the Nyborg connection. He was definitely in Sunderland, Durham, England (near where I live) in 1868 to take his examination. He is not on the 1861 census but gives his address as Wear Street prior to his marriage in December 1862. It is possible he travelled back to Sweden perhaps to get the evidence of his service there. This is the certificate that is missing - the certificate from consul. I am so grateful that you are taking the time to look in to the Swedish books for me. I assume to reside in Sweden and are familiar with the language.
Regards Julie.
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Hi Julie
To answer your question, I live in Sweden.
I have checked a few things from your tree. Of course all this depends on whether this is the Edward Anderson I have researched. - The Boston passenger list you have is from 1903 and this Edward came from Malmo which is at the bottom of Sweden. Also, I think it says that his age is 16 not 66 years old. The record also states that he was single at that time and your Edward was a British Subject and therefore, perhaps, he wasn’t Swedish. Also his father died 17 Jan 1876 so he couldn’t have paid for the trip. Now, I think he would have sailed with the Merchant Navy to emigrate instead of paying all that money to get there, and then jump ship. And also, he had a family in England and died in England.
I have also checked the other passenger lists and the dates and residences don’t fit. He was a sailor at these times. He would have been working on a boat, not as a passenger. For example, according to one of the passenger lists he was travelling to New York in 1866, but according to his Statement of Service he was working on the SS Lady Beatrix from Sunderland.
So, to be honest, I don’t think he emigrated anywhere. I don’t want to sound condescending but I really don’t think these passenger lists are showing the correct Edward.
I am going through the Sailor’s Books from Gothenburg to see if I can find him, we’ll see. I would like to know how he got to Bremen and then how he got to Sunderland. According to his Statement of Service he could not prove his first 6 years of his service. I think he left Sweden around 1858 and never returned.
Ian
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I have also done a bit of research on his German records. The Elisabeth was a passenger ship taking immigrants to New Orleans.
Link: http://212.227.236.244/auswanderung/abfahrten/passagen.php?s=s&v=Elisabeth&lang=en
4th row from bottom.
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Here is the Edward Anderson I am researching:
The image is from the page from the Swedish Book from Ljung dated 1861-1868.
You will notice “Nyborg” as his place of residence. “Ny” means new and “Borg” means castle.
The words to the left of the name says “Inhyrdes sjöman”. This probably means that he was enrolled in a Sailors Institute, probably in Gothenburg.
The dates on the right of the names are their birth dates plus where they were born: Ljung.
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On the other side of the page:
On the same line as Edward’s name number 21 it says “säges vara gift i England” - which means “is said to have married in England.”
Above that under Gustaf’s name it says “ej avhörd på 8 år (66)” – which means “not examined in 8 years (1866).” I think this means that the priest wrote this in 1866 after getting tired of these 2 not being in the village for all these years. 1866 minus 8 years is 1858. So, I believe they disappeared around 1858.
In the last 2 columns it says “särsk stuk 21 Oct 1868” – which means that the priest officially struck off their names from the books. He realized that they weren’t coming back.
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I would love to know how they wrote "Nygreen" if this is the right person that is.
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Hi Ian,
Sorry for late reply. We had a big New Year dinner for the family.
The census/Household Examination is very interesting. Thank you for sending it to me. It is a pity the exact date of birth for Anders is not entered as it would help to positively identify his parents as the name is so common. Are you able to read the words before Nyborg and Anders's name? Also the word after Christina. Strangely one of our children was called Christina but she died a few days after birth. Johanna and Hermann's names are crossed off. Does that mean they have died? You said that the words before Edward's name may mean that he was enrolled in a seamen's institute. Do you think his brothers were also sailors? Also Anna Johanna is missing. Maybe she died young.
I have found online a Swedish Maritime Administration. with a centre in Gothenburg. It may be worth sending an e-mail to see if they have any records or can advise me where to look. Perhaps he sailed from Nyborg.
I do not think you are condescending at all. Sometimes it is difficult to see the obvious when you look at so many documents but someone else can. As I don't have the luxury of a permanent Ancestry subscription, I copy/attach what I find then attempt to prove/disprove it later.
Johanna Lang is older than Anders but I have not found her birth yet.
Once again thank you for your kind assistance.
Julie (nee Anderson)
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Hi Julie
To answer your questions first:
The word before Nyborg: Backstuga - This is a simple lodging on someone elses land.
The word before Anders: Enkling - Widow.
The word after Christina: Barnlärarina - School Teacher.
Johanna died so her name was crossed off.
All three brothers were sailors. I know that now.
I don't know who Herman is....yet.
Gustaf and Edward's names are crossed off because they never came back to the parish.
I will find Anders birth for you. I have found 2 entries in the Uddevalla Sailor's Books of an Edward Andersson going to sea. I have access to all the Sailor Books but finding sailors is not easy.
Uddevalla is very very close to Nyborg, so I think it is him.
Ian
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I have found Anders' parents and siblings:
Father: Anders Hansson 1773
Mother: Kerstin Arvidsdotter 1767
Siblings:
Herman 1798
Anna Britta 1799
Christina 1802
Anders 1804 (not 1805)
Inger 1811
If at all possible, can I have a look at the names etc that were given on those records you have of Edward's parents etc.
Ian
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You wrote somewhere that Edward was in the 1911 Census on a ship. I would like to see it please. I cannot find it.
Ian
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Number 92
Here is an Edvard Andersson. He is a (kock) cook and from Ljung parish. It is dated 6 July 1854. The captain’s name is H. Lycke. The ship’s name is Minerva and is sailing to Norrige (the old word for Norge which is Norway). The Minerva was a sloop.
I noticed that he was a steward and a watchman on the 1891 Census. Maybe cook and steward are connected somehow?
Ian
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Number 55
Here is another Edvard Andersson. He is a (jungman) deckhand from Ljung. It is dated 22 March 1856. The captain’s name is B. Olsson. The ship’s name is Lydia and is sailing to Denmark. The Lydia was a schooner.
Notice H. Andersson above Edvard’s name. He is an (matrose) able seaman and could be Herman his uncle whose name appears at the same residence.
Ian
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Also note that the Anderssons lived in Ljung Parish. There were many Anderssons in the Sailor's Books from Uddevalla, but only 2 Edvards and 1 Herman and they came from Ljung Parish. So, I believe these to be the Anderssons I am researching….. and hopefully the family you are also looking for.
Ian
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Hello Ian,
It sounds like we are close to finding out a few things.
I am sorry but I think I misunderstood when you asked for evidence of Edward's parents. I think you mean the Familysearch entry. I tried to copy it to attach but I am unable to copy it in such a way. I am not very good at those things. If you put in the search Eduard Andersson, Country - Sweden, Birthplace - Ljung, Sweden, Birthdate - 1837-1837 it comes up at the top of the list. It gives his parents as Anders Andersson and Johanna Lang. If you put their names in it brings up all of the children. All have the Batch Number C40435-3. When I put in this number it strangely brought up a birth of an Olof Andersson born on 18th May 1819 and Christened on the 20th May in Ljung, Goteborg Och Bohos. The parents are Inger Andersdr and Anders Brandt. Ingers was the sister of Anders born 1811. This Inger is obviously not the same one but make be a clue to a family link and proves there was an Olof (Oliver) Andersson living in ljung. I am probably grasping at straws but am always looking for any evidence that may lead me to his family. There may be a family connection as I have found several Oliver Andersons in Sunderland. I think Edward dropped the double 's' over time and it is spelt with only one on the census records. Have you managed to read the birthplace of Johanna (1799)?
Julie
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Hi
I meant to look at the records he had signed with his parents' names, perhaps his marriage cert or something else. I will look at the record on FamilySearch. I will also look at this Oliver in the books too.
Yes, I have found Johanna's birth.
Ian
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I have attempted to attach his marriage certificate which shows father's name only and his application to be examined for his Certificate of Competency which gives his date of birth. However, it says the file is too large even if I try to send them separately.
I have attached these documents to Edward Anderson in my Ancestry tree. You will be able to view them there. Anderson 11 28.
Julie
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Thanks for that.
I have just traced this Olle Andersson in Ljung.... he just disappeared. His father was a soldier. I even went through all the Gothenburg births.... no Olle, Olof or Oliver or Edvard birth either.
The thing that is puzzling me is, if he is the right Edward, why did he give Oliver as his father. If his father's name was Olof, Olle etc, then Edward's surname would be Olofsson or Olsson.
I must say that the evidence is quite strong....... same birth, a seaman, seems to have married in England, no trace of him after 1860. Even the Nyborg and Nygreen residences.
Did you find that 1911 Census where Edward was on a ship?
Ian
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There was no census record just a crew list for an E Anderson 1911 on the Mary Elizabeth Vessel Official Number 76551 which proved not to be him. It won't let me attach it. It was a much younger man and Edward was 74 at that time and died 4 years later. I am beginning to wonder the same - if it is the same Edward. If only I could find his early sailor's records it may shed a light on his next of kin etc. Why do our ancestors do this to us?
Julie
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Hi
I have now trawled through 1000's of seamen in Gothenburg. As of yet no names of Edvard or Oliver Andersson. Many Olof and Olle but none from that parish.
I suggest that you start a new thread (or perhaps get help from a moderator to copy over parts of this thread) in the Europe section. You will certainly get more help there if anyone can help you there. I will keep looking but that sailors book you are looking for might not exist. It it did Edward had it.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Many thanks for you efforts to trace Edward and Oliver. I am grateful that you have been able to access records and translate them for me.By the way what is the writing next to Herman's name on the census? Is it referring to his death?
I will take your advice and start a new thread. I am not sure about the best way to do this. From a seaman's perspective or a family one.
I was even thinking of pursuing Peter Charles Ostram who married his wife's sister Mary Imison. He lived with them at the time of his marriage. I am thinking that they may have been friends and maybe sailed together. If I could find his records than it may give a clue to his Merchant Seaman's activity before arriving in England. His name is less common too so should be easier to trace. However, I have been unable to find him on Familysearch.
I won't give up until I find Edward's roots in Sweden and the truth about Oliver. Once again - much gratitude to you for the time you have put in to this for me. You said you were researching the Anderssons. Do you think my Anderssons are connected to you?
Regards Julie.
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Hi Julie
There are 2 writings next to his name. The first one (next to his name) says "enrolled as a seaman". The second one says "has not been examined (by the priest) since 1857".
I beleive that he also disappeared. Jumped ship that is.
Also the child under Herman is Anders Andersson's grandchild.
What I meant with researching the Anderssons was researching your Anderssons. I am married to a Johansson and they were farmers and millers.
Ian
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Hello Ian,
I have been spending some time trying to absorb all of the information you have given me. I note that on the census all of the family were born in Ljung except Johanna. You said that you had found her birth. Where was the parish of her birth? It states she was born on 27th December 1799 but I have been unable to find her on Familysearch. I was hoping to establish her parents.
I assume you are certain of Anders' birth. How were you able to trace back to the correct one; there are so many!It must be him as his siblings names are passed down to his children. Family search have Anders' birth as 11th December 1804 and Christenened on the 16th in Ljung. His mother Kerstin I have as born in Silbodal, Varmland - daughter of Arvid Jacobsson and Kerstin Olsdotter. There are a couple of possibilities for Anders Hansson born 1773.
I hadn't noticed the grandchild on the census. Are you able to read the name? I was trying to work out whose child it could be. Is it a girl or boy? He/she was born in Udevalla so very close to Nyborg. I am sorry to keep asking questions; I am trying to analyse everything.
I have placed another post in the Europe section.
Julie.
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Hi Julie
I'll get back to you with the details. Uddevalla is very close to Nyborg. I know Uddevalla pretty well. We go there every year. I can add though, I haven't been to Ljung.
Just ask the questions you need to know.
Yes, I saw your thread in the Europe section.
Ian
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Hi Julie,
Not everything in the Swedish Books will be on FamilySearch. You gave an Edward earlier from FamilySearch and I started from there and went through many Edwards born in 1837 with those dates. This Edward seemed to fit all the criteria.
About Anders.... I knew his birth date (roughly, as sometimes the dates aren't correct). I then went through the birth books and found an Anders that fitted and then methodically went through all the Anders Andersson Censuses and went back to his birth date. It is the right Anders.
Johanna:
Name: Johanna Hellena
Born: 26 Dec 1796
Bapt: 28 Dec 1796
Mother's name: Housemaid - Anna Olufsdotter 26 years old
Father's name: "Given as" Dragoon Jonas Long
Because the priest wrote "given as" is a little suspect. Could suggest that they weren't married at the time.
Johanna was born in Kungälv.
Here are all Edvard's Siblings:
Carl b. 3 Dec 1828
Gustaf b. 22 March 1830
Herman b. 10 Oct 1831
Anna Johanna b. 3 March 1833
Christina b. 21 Sep 1835
Edvard b. 4 Oct 1837
The grand-daughter's name is Gustafwa Christina Sandsten. And the mother is Anna Johanna.
I said earlier that Herman could be Ewward's uncle. Well, it was actually his brother.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
I have been looking at this side of my tree again and was wondering if your are able to find a death for Anna Joanna who was my great, great grandfather Edward Anderson's sister and mother to Gustafwa Christina Sandsten. She was the only grandchild showing on the household record. I feel in my heart that you have found his family and this is the right family pedigree. However, I am struggling with the 'Oliver' connection. Why would Edward name his father as Oliver? Was it common for people to 're-name' to avoid confusion? I cannot find anyone else with the same date of birth so it must be him yet there is an element of doubt.
Can I please thank you again for the previous research. I will be eternally grateful.
Julie
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Hi Julie again, nice to hear from you again....
Here is Anna Johanna's death:
Sandsten born: Andersdotter, Anna Johanna
Lived at: Qviström as a poor woman.
Dead: 12 Feb 1912 and buried 28 feb 1912
Cause: Asthma
Registered in Västra Tunhem.
Born: 3 March 1833 in Ljung (Göteborgs och Bohus län, Bohuslän).
Widow (27 Jan 1898).
Here is Anna Johanna's family in 1890 Vänersborg:
Sandstén, Johan Ferdinand - b. 1828 - Father
Andersson, Anna Johanna - b. 1833 - Mother
Johan Oswald - b. 1862 - Child
Augusta Josefina - b. 1871 - Child
Here is Gustafva's family in 1895 in Foss:
Fredriksson, Johan Alfred - b. 1860 - Father
Sandsten, Gustafva Christina - b. 1859 - Mother
Alma Fredrika - b. 1881 - Child
Anna Elvira - b. 1883 - Child
Gustaf Adolf - b. 1886 - Child
Hilma Maria - b. 1891 - Child
Carl Johan - b. 1895 - Child
Gustafva died in Foss on 28 March 1895 from complications of the birth of Carl Johan. She was buried 7 April 1895.
Yes, I am also sure that this is the right family but I don't know why he used the name Oliver. I would also like to add that not all Swedish records are on Familysearch.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Thank you so much for getting back to me. I am grateful for the information.
I have recently returned to this after solving a mystery with my paternal grandmother's side. (Mallinders of Sheffied posting) I was helped enormously by people like yourself. I discovered that I couldn't find my great grandmother's birth because the name on her marriage certificate was different to the one on her birth record as her father changed his name to his grandparent's name probably to stake a claim on the family business.
The reason I asked about Anna Johanna's death was that I was curious as to why she wasn't included in the Swedish Book for 1861-1868 and why the grandaughter Gustafva Christina was living in her grandfather's house and not with her parents. I assumed that she had been orphaned or at least her mother had died. How often were the household records taken?
The records show that she died in her seventies in 1912. Her brother Edward (my great, great grandfather) died in 1915. He is missing from the 1911 census and I have been unable to find him on ship. Now I am wondering if he made a trip to see his sister before she died. Just guessing.
I had the information for Gustarva's family but not for her father and siblings. The new information has thrown up several member family trees on Ancestry. It wil be pointless contacting them though as I am unable to speak the language.
Edward named his father as Oliver - Master Mariner but the household records show his father as Anders Anderson and you said that you were unable to find any evidence that he was a sailor. I suppose this will be one of the mysteries left unsolved.
I am trying to build a picture of his family's life and you have helped me to do this.
Thanks again Julie
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Hi Julie
Anna Johanna moved out to Uddevalla in 1855 and got married there in 1855 so she wasn’t present in that book. I am though having problems locating them after this up to 1890.
I don’t know why Gustafva was left behind. They then started a new family. Gustafva was born in 1859 and it looks like that she was sent to her grandparents.
Johan Ferdinand Sandsten was a "Furir" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furir).
Here is a good explanation of how these books work…. https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Sweden_Household_Examination_Records_(Husf%C3%B6rh%C3%B6rsl%C3%A4ngder)
Here is Johan Oswald’s death. I cannot find anything else yet.
Sandsten, Johan Osvald
Munkedals Factory
Dead: 25 June 1951.
Registered in Foss (Göteborgs och Bohus län, Bohuslän).
Born: 17 Sep 1862 in Grinneröd (Göteborgs och Bohus län, Bohuslän).
Widower (30 June 1948).
Regarding contacting the Swedish trees should pose no problem as nearly everyone speaks or understands English. You can try to contact them and if any problems arise ask them to contact me.
Ian
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Just noticed that the link to Familysearch doesn't work.
Solution: add a finishing bracket in the address at the end for that page ")". That works fine.
Ian
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On the image 1876 Census it states that Carl died around 7 Nov 1873. The death record states that he drowned in the Kattegat (The sea between Sweden and Denmark). He was unmarried. He was a sailor.
Hermann seems to have disappeared. He probably jumped ship somewhere. He was a sailor.
Ian
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I found this Inventory of Estate / Will for Anders Andersson. Here is the translation of it. I will send the images later.....
The year 1876 17 May the inventory of estate was written up for the widow Anders Andersson at Nyborg under Tjöstelsröd in Ljung Parish who died 17 January and left son Edvard, daughter Johanna married to Sandsten and daughter Christina married to Strömberg all lawfully responsible (could not translate the next bit properly as I didn’t understand it, but here goes)….. except for Strömberg who during the last hour of the deceased was exempted and thus the following agreed:
Cash at time of death: 3 crowns and 63 öre
1 silver tiepin: 1 crown
1 pair glasses and 1 teaspoon: 50 öre
Malt stored in pig sty: 51 crowns
Coat, trousers and vest: 10 crowns
Pair of old socks: 50 öre
Old slippers and shoes: 1 crown and 50 öre
Hats: 50 öre
Old scarves: 1 crown and 50 öre
1 cow hair blanket: 2 crowns and 50 öre
1 old pair sheets: 1 crown and 20 öre
1 bedside table and 2 tables: 6 crowns
1 cupboard: 5 crowns 10 öre
4 old boxes: 3 crowns and 60 öre
1 jewelry box: 75 öre
2 chairs: 50 öre
2 containers: 2 crowns and 50 öre
Shaving box and knife: 50 öre
1 weighing machine: 10 crowns
1 basin and 2 boxes: 1 crowns and 10 öre
Tools
6 old fishing line: 3 crowns
1 hand grinder: 3 crowns and 50 öre
1 old woven chair and skis: 4 crowns
1 baking tray: 3 crowns and 75 öre
2 iron pans: 1 crown and 75 öre
1 copper kettle and 4 coffee cups: 15 crowns
1 pan: 1 crown and 10 öre
2 scissors, 2 knives: 50 öre
1 measuring stick: 1 crown 30 öre
1 watering can, 1 lantern: 50 öre
1 plate: 25 öre
3 plant pots, 1 washing basin: 1 crown 25 öre
1 clothes brush, 3 baskets: 50 öre
1 bottle basket with bottles: 75 öre
1 yarn: 25 öre
1 corkscrew, 1 coffee grinder: 30 öre
1 saw: 50 öre
Gold and debts:
To daughter Christina according to 1867’s inventory of estate: 35 crowns
9 years interest @ 6%: 20 crowns
To Strömberg according to debt from 1868: 30 crowns
2 years interest: 3 crowns
Remaining from same debt: 11 crowns
Interest for 6 years: 6 crowns
According to debt for Samuel Persson in Solberg amortized by Strömberg: 20 crowns
Ditto 1870: 22 crowns
Interest for 6 years: 7 crowns
According to bill for Strömberg: 29 crowns
Funeral expenses: 75 crowns
For care and attention for these last 3 years for the deceased to Strömberg with 30 crowns per year: 90 crowns
Inventory of estate expenses: 9 crowns
Total debts: 365 crowns
Signed and approved by Em Strömberg
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Hi Ian,
I am amazed at the latest information. It is unbelievable the records you are finding.
I was sad to hear of the demise of Carl. Clearly the death record has confirmed his occupation as a sailor.
The inventory/will for Anders was extremely interesting. It is strange that there is no reference to Gustaf or Hermann, yet Edvard is mentioned but he was living in England at that time. We now know that Carl was dead before then. This gives a very personal insight into him and the way he lived. I can almost visualise his home and possessions. I was very pleased to read it. Now I know he wore glasses and went fishing!
It is intriguing that he appears to have written out Christina's husband just before his death. I look forward to seeing the images.
I was just wondering - do I record the daughters as Andersson or Andersdotter? The baptism records read Andersson.
I am trying to make sense of the records. Some I can make out but others are just a blur of letter. I would never have been able to read them. I am trying to work out how I can print them from the dropbox files. I haven't done it before. I have managed to print one so far. This way I can annotate them to enable me to sequence the events in my head.
I did notice that the message was sent at a late hour so appreciate your efforts.
Julie
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I did notice that the message was sent at a late hour so appreciate your efforts.
No worries. I work late evening shifts. Nice to relax with a good book to read!!
Ian
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Here is another one I found. This time it is after the death of Johanna Lång. I had to split it into 2 pieces.
Year 1867 29 January appeared the undersigned at Nyborg under Tjöstelsröd in Ljung Parish to administer this Inventory of Estate and Valuation after the death on 20 October of wife Johanna Lang, whose heirs honour the widowed man Anders Andersson, plus with him together……….. Carl born 3 Dec 1828, also residing abroad the sons Gustaf born 23 March 1830, Herman 10 October 1831, Edvard 4 October 1837. The daughters Anna Johanna born 2 Feb 1853 married to Furir Johan Ferdinand Sandsten under Livferöd, Christina born 19 Sept 1835.
The home is registered as:
Gold
1 tiepin: 1,50 Riksmynt
Silver
1 teaspoon: 1,50
1 pigsty: 150
Copper
1 Kettle: 10
3 coffee pans: 5
Glass and Porcelain
10 drinking glasses: 0,83
8 carafes, sugar bowls: 0,75
16 various small bottles: 0,80
Half a dozen coffee cups: 0,75
Usage
2 barrels: 0,50
2 bottles, 1 half stop and 1 quarter: 0,25
1 lantern: 1,75
Stone and clay wear
3 barrels and 2 schnapps: 1,50
5 rose jars and 1 snus box: 0,75 ……. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus )
Tin things
1 pan: 1,75
2 frying pans, 1 coffee cooker: 1,25
1 iron, 1 pair oven gloves: 1,00
1 baking tray, 1 scoop: 5,00
House and Garden things
1 salt bowl, 2 washing bowls: 1,75
1 woven chair, old with accessories: 2,00
4 spoons: 0,75
2 flour bowls, 1 salt cellar: 1,00
2 cutting boards, 1 hand grinder: 0,25
1 coffee grinder, 1 pepper grinder: 0,25
1 copper drinking vessel: 0,8
2 sieves: 0,5
3 knives, 3 spoons: 0,10
Half a dozen tin spoons: 0,75
1 sack and 5 bags: 0,50
1 grinding stone: 1,50
1 old pull box: 1,50
2 old side benches: 2,50
4 old chairs: 0,33
1 painted table: 2,00
1 side table and 1 kitchen sideboard: 1,75
1 painted cupboard: 3,00
1 mirror without glass: 1,00
1 stool, 4 brushes: 0,50
3 small boxes: 0,25
4 old boxes: 0,50
4 bottle baskets, 3 various baskets: 0,25
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Share in vessel (ownership)
5/8 in Jakten Emeli: 100,00
Bed and linen things
1 pyjamas: 2,00
1 feather bed: 6,00
2 old springs: 4,17
1 old feather bed: 1,00
4 old sheets: 5,00
1 table cloth, 5 sheets: 5,00
1 bedcover, 1 bench cushion: 1,50
6 pair old white curtains: 1,33
Daily clothes
1 coat, 1 cardigan: 3,00
1 black dress: 4,00
3 dresses: 5,00
2 shirts: 4,00
1 black silk cloth: 2,00
2 shawls: 4,00
5 small cotton tablecloths, 3 pinnies: 3,00
4 handkerchiefs, 2 nightcaps: 1,00
1 pair gloves, 2 pair mittens: 0,50
4 pair socks: 1,25
1 pair boots: 1,00
1 old umbrella: 0,50
Books
1 Bible and various books: 1,50
Various
2 corkscrews: 0,50
1 carving knife, 1 ruler, and various buttons: 0,25
1 coffee tray: 0,25
3 candle holders: 0,75
16 table knives with 5 forks:
1 old saw: 0,25
Claims
By Olof Lundgrin at Fjällsholmen: 14,00
By P. Nilsson in Gothenburg… unsure: 23,00
Debts
To Andreas Andersson at Hågården on Hisingen: 50,00
……3 years interest @ 6%: 18,00
To Johanna Nilsson under Kärr: 50,00
……the rest of interest: 13,50
To Mr Bergjus at Tjöstelseröd: 4,00
To son Carl: 20,00
To son Carl: 35,00
To son Carl: 10,00
To daughter Christina: 35,20
To Harfhuset after Andreas Nilsson at Aröd: 10,00
To Gustaf Andersson at Garn: 4,00
Burial expenses: 30,00
To Emanuel Strömberg at Anniberg: 50,00
Inventory fee: 1%
That the proceedings after the death of my wife has been properly adjudicated without anyone left out from anything…..
Anders Andersson
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Hi! Thank you for the latest images and information. What an amazing find! The Will/inventory of Johanna Lang confirms that Edward's brothers also resided abroad. They must have originally lived in a rural location. I am particularly interested in the fact that they appeared to have a shared ownership in a vessel (Jakten Emeli)
I can't thank you enough for this Ian. This means so much to me. There is a mention of a claim from a Olof Lundgrin.Just grasping at straws re the Oliver Anderson named as Edward's father.
Julie
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I was just wondering - do I record the daughters as Andersson or Andersdotter? The baptism records read Andersson.
I prefer Andersdotter, because that was the way it was back then - Ander's daughter, but if the records state Andersson, then Andersson it is. Maybe Anders and Johanna wanted it that way.
I think you can right what you feel is right.
Ian
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I think there is a possibility that Edward's brother Gustaf came to England with him. I have found 2 deaths for a Gustaf Anderson - one in 1929 the other 1931. This would give dates of birth around 1864 and 1867. I am probably grasping at straws but may possibly be Gustaf's son. On the 1901 census there is a Gustaf Anderson born Sweden (Swedish subject) sailor, single, boarding with an Albertina Long (widow) and her children Amelia and Maria at 29 Warren Street Sunderland. She was also born Sweden (Swedish subject) and a sailor's lodging house keeper. I can't find an earlier census to establish her husbands name but wondering with the name Long they may be connected. I have Johanna's father as Jonas Long.
Ten years earlier on the 1891 census there is another Gustave A.B seaman born Gothenburg, Sweden about 1864. He is living with wife Elizabeth at 5 Hedworth Street, Sunderland.
I haven't been able to find any evidence of a Hermann living in Sunderland.
Julie
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Albertina was Ollsen before her marriage. She was born around 1862 in Gothenburg. She died in 1918 in Sunderland. Her husband was Olof Long also born 1862 Gothenburg. He died in Sunderland in 1901.
Julie
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Hi
This must be them in Gothenburg in 1890...
Lång Kristiansson, Olof Severin born in Torsby - 1851 - Father
Olofsdtr, Albertina born in Torsby - 1851 - Mother
Hilma Lovisa born in Gothenburg - 1877
Amelie Ellen born in Sunderland - 1883
Maria Konstantia born in Sunderland - 1885
Ian
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Here is the family in Gothenburg around 1899:
According to this record Olof Lång left for America in 1891.
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and here is Olof leaving Sweden:
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I took a wee look for Olof coming back to England. There is a O S Long on the Norwegian from New York to Glasgow in 1892 and is on ancestry.
I hope you find a connection with these records. Maybe they can help you find Gustaf Andersson as a member of your Anderssons.
Ian
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I really don't think I will every find a connection. This may just be a red herring. I found a few Albertina Olofsdotter's on Familysearch with father Olof Andersson. I thought I had found the link to Edward's marriage certificate and him naming his father Oliver. Then you sent me the record today which shows Albertina's exact date of birth. I couldn't find it on Ancestry or Familysearch apart from one baptism in Torsby in May 1852. I looked on Ancestry member trees and there is a tree called Live4ever-Matilda - owner BimEngdahl which has Albertina Olofsdotter b. 8 Oct 1851 (as the record shows)Torsby, died after 1890 Gotesborgs Johan married to Olof Sverin Christiannsson Lang (which may correspond to the O S Lang you found his returning to Glasgow. b. 26 Oct 1851 in Brunnefjalli Torsby. (sorry I don't know how to get the correct symbols). All the children I have found - Hilma Lovisa Lang b. 2nd June 1877 Gotesborgs Domkyrko - Gustavi, Maria Constantia b. 2nd Nov 1880 (I found her death in Sunderland) Ameli Ellen Lang b. 1883 England, another Maria Constantia b. 1885 England. We know they were born in Sunderland. They have as Albertina's father Olof August Olsson and mother Laurina Andersdotter.
Sunderland is a port and it is not surprising that many foreigners lived there. It was just the Anderson and Long names together at the same address got me thinking. On the other hand Andersson is one of the most common Swedish names.
Julie
Is Lang pronounced with an 'a' or Long with an 'o'?
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Lång is pronounced Long
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Sorry to ask but are you able to tell me what is written in the comment/remark? section of the 1847, 1852 and 1860 census/household examination. I have managed to print off some of the images and am currently going through them all to see if I can pick up anything. For example, in the 1847 record the entire family are crossed out. Does that mean they have moved?
Julie
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No problems, just ask....
1847 - "På Socknen 1847" = "In the Parish 1847". They moved, staying in the same Parish in 1847.
1852 - "Se sidan 149 för detta hushåll" = "See page 149 for this household".
1860 - "Inom Socknen" = "Inside the Parish". They moved staying in the same Parish.
Ian
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Thanks for that. I am trying hard to translate the Swedish myself and have managed a little bit but because I am not familiar with the language it is difficult to even guess what it says. So it appears that they moved around a bit but stayed in the same parish. Eduard (Edward) was in Ljung in 1860 so I think that confirms that his first son William Joseph born 1860 may not be his. I have his birth record and it doesn't have a father's name. It is not impossible though if he was sailing back and forth to Sunderland. He was boarding with Caroline's sister and husband at the time of their marriage.
A couple of questions. On all of the census records before Johanna Lang's death it states her date of birth as 1799 but I have her birth record that you kindly sent me which states 1796. Why do you think that is? Maybe she was trying to reduce the age gap between her and Anders. Can you read what it says below the parent's names?
I have been looking at Eduard's birth/baptism record. I was able to translate the words vittne (witness) and med (with). So it reads witness Nils Andersson with ? Anna Andersdotter. I am wondering who they are. I can't read the name before Anna. What does it say below that?
I am so grateful to have the images.
Julie
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Hi Julie,
I understand the problem with the Swedish. I'll tell you what I will do..... I will translate all the images for you so it will make it easier for you. Just give me a week and I will post them on to you. No problems.
Ian
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Thank you so much for your kind offer. Please don't go to too much trouble though. I am trying to figure out your nationality. Your English is good so English is your first language yet I don't think you are English. A couple of clues. Twice your have said 'a wee look' so maybe Scottish and 'no worries' so maybe Australian. I think you have lived in Sweden a while to be so competent. Just me being curious.
Julie
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A wee clue is the first name in my footnote in my replies. I am English and have been living in Sweden for over 20 years.
Ian
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I have just received Eduard (Edward) Anderson's death certificate. The certificate states that he died on the 3rd November 1915 in the Union Hospital Sunderland aged 78 years. Cause of death - 'Pneumonia of left lung accelerated by shock from an accidental fall caused by his being pushed aside on the 30th inst while in pay room by an inmate of workhouse'. There was an inquest into his death on the 5th November.
I am confused about a couple of things. When I couldn't find him on census records I checked crew lists and the 1911 census records for the workhouse. He wasn't there. His wife and daughter were still living in Sunderland in Chester Road so maybe he was at sea. If he died in the Union Hospital, does that mean he resided there? I always thought it was the hospital for residents of the workhouse. It states that his occupation was a Ship's Steward of 40 East Street which was in Hendon Sunderland. So he was in employment so how could he be in the workhouse. These are not questions for you but questions for me to work out. I just thought you would be interested to know that thanks to you I now have a complete record from birth to death of Edward. The main thing I need to resolve is the 'Oliver' connection. I can only assume that he despised his father and used another name on his marriage certificate. Was he the only Eduard Andersson born on the 4th October 1837? I think it is him. I KNOW IT IS HIM! Yet why this niggling doubt? If I didn't have his marriage record, I wouldn't be even pose the question. He died of pneumonia, his son Charles (my great grandfather) predeceased him as a result of 'Valvular disease of the heart'. His son Charles Ernest Humble (my grandfather) died of pneumonia. My father Gordon Anderson almost died of pneumonia but is still alive aged almost 86! Asthma is in the family. My two brothers suffered badly from it in childhood. Eduard's, and even this time last year. I knew hardly anything about him after his arrival in England. I have come a long way ( with a 'little' help!!!!)
Julie
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Hi Julie,
I am glad you mentioned the causes of death because it looks as though Anders also died of pneumonia. Unfortunately the minister was a little lazy when filling in the record. As you can see (hopefully), it says on the far right "lunginfl" which is short for lunginflammation which is pneumonia in English.
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Hi again,
I took a look in the 1911 Census and found an Edward Anderson as an inmate in the Union Workhouse in Sunderland on Hylton Road. He is recorded as an able seaman in the Merchant Navy and born in Gothenburg Sweden. But he is recorded as 52 years old and a widower. It is on Ancestry.
Could this be Eduard?
Ian
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Yes I also saw the 1911 workhouse census. I couldn't find him on ship so thought he may be in the workhouse or in hospital. The Edward Anderson on that record, although born in Gothenburg is only 52 when my Edward would have been 73 at the time of the census in April. This means his date of birth would have been 1859. Also he was not a widower at that time. His wife (Caroline died in 1926 and was living with her daughter, a boarding house keeper at 97 Chester Road at the time of the census. Chester Road is very close to where the workhouse and Union hospital stood on the site of the hospital where I and all of my children were born. Some of the old buildings still stand. There is a Gustav Gustafsson in the workhouse !!! Something to investigate.
I have e-mailed the Durham County Record Office to see if they have the workhouse register for 1915 and the Coroner/Inquest report for his death. They may at least set me in the right direction. There may be a newspaper report regarding the incident if there was an inquest. I thought Anders' death record had something that looked like Lung..... and guessed it was lung inflammation. I don't know if pneumonia can be hereditary, but it is certainly strange.
I have put another posting on Rootschat - Death Union Hospital Sunderland. I have had a few responses telling me about the history of the hospital and the workhouse but really I am trying to establish if he was residing there at the time of his death. I think as according to one person who responded, he was just there for treatment.
Julie
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I saw that the age was different but I thought maybe it was a mistake or even he wrote the wrong age etc on purpose for some reason.
Ian
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I remember reading somewhere from one of your posts that there was another Swede living with Eduard sometime. Do you have any info on him?
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Yes the person you refer to was Peter Charles Ostram born about 1823 Sweden. He was Edward's brother-in-law married to Caroline Imison's sister Mary. I at first thought they were both sailors and maybe came to England together but on the 1861 census his occupation is given as Grocer living at 14 Back D'Arcy Street. In 1871, he is living at 44 Wear Street. Edward is living at number 42 Wear Street at the time he took his Certificate of Competency exam. His occupation is Fruiterer. Also living with them as Head of family is Caroline and Mary's mother Eleanor Imison (nee Barron) Grocer. His name on the only two census records are Peter Ostram but his marriage record to Mary reveals his full name as Peter Charles Ostram. His place of birth is just given as Sweden which doesn't help much. It is difficult to trace people between the censuses as they moved around a lot but I know from the death in 1863 of Peter Ostram and Mary Imison's daughter Caroline aged 8 (presumably named after her sister) that they lived at 24 Wear Street. This is the address that Edward gives on his marriage certificate so either he boarded with them and maybe met his future wife through them or simply gave their address for the record.
When I came up against a brick wall with Edward, I thought I would try to trace Peter Charles Ostram as it may shed a light on a few things. I don't know where he was born or how or when he got to England.
Julie
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Sorry I just saw your previous post regarding the 1911 census record for the workhouse. Yes I think it is possible that the age is wrong as it seems a coincidence another Edward Anderson from Gothenburg. Maybe he was in there for a while if he was too ill to work. It is strange that his wife and daughter lived elsewhere. Maybe they had parted by that time. I forgot to add that his address on the death certificate - 40 East Street was the address his son Charles lived in 1901 so I think he moved in with him and wife also Caroline and stayed there. Charles then moved to 44 Bramwell Street where he died on 3rd August 1911. My dad was born in Bramwell Street.
Julie
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Hi again Julie
Thanks for the email. Just been going through all this again to recap. Do you have the marriage cert of Peter Charles Ostram. Perhaps I can find something on him in Sweden but I need his father's name.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
I don't have a death certificate for Peter Charles Ostram just a burial record but I will send for it soon and see what it reveals. He is a mystery as he only appears on the 1861 and 1871 censuses. He died in September 1872 and is buried near Edward in the next grave in the family plot with my great, great grandfather's family together with his daughter. His wife - my g.g. grandmother's sister re-married and died in Tyneside. I don't hold out much hope of finding anything about him as I am sure that Ostram is a common name in Sweden. Also the census records only give his birthplace as Sweden so without a parish that will be difficult. However, I have just found a record which could be significant.
When I first started researching, I believed that they must be friends as Edward was living with him and his future sister-in-law at the time of his marriage. But that could have simply been because he was a fellow Swede so gave him a home. Or he could have just given that address for the records and lived elsewhere. Peter Charles Ostram was according to census/death/marriage records, a grocer, fruiterer, street merchant and his burial record states Green Grocer. I have discovered a record on Find My Past which could be him. It is a Merchant Navy Seaman record for a Peter Ostran which could be a mistranscription aged 31, birth year 1823 born Heligoland. The date range is 1853-1857. He married my great, great grandmother's sister Mary Imison on the 15th January 1852 record number 10a 339. I will order it. So now I am thinking that perhaps they were both seamen and that once Peter arrived in England he changed his occupation. This may be because they had to take the Master and Mates Certificate and he may have chosen not to do this. If he did, I might have been able to find an exact date of birth for him as I was able to do for Edward/Eduard - my G.G Grandfather.
Re you last message, when I first started researching, I looked at the Arkivdigital website and found nothing but I will look again, they may have added more records. I have a lot of records attached to my tree that I know may not be for him but I copy anything I can that may be a possibility. I have a whole file just for him!
I have a private family tree on Ancestry that I call Anderson Family Tree with Oliver Link. It is my 'hypothetical' tree. I am asking myself why did he name his father Oliver when his father was Anders? Maybe he fell out with the family and left home. I only know that there are records of several Oliver Andersons in Sunderland. I know this is a common Swedish name also (Olof). In particular, there is an Oliver - Master Mariner born 1831 Gothenburg, Sweden and died 1891 in Sunderland also in the workhouse. On the census records he is a British Subject. There is an Oliver Anderson - Seaman - born 1850 Sweden who lived in Sunderland and had a son also named Oliver born 1883 in Sunderland and died in 76 WEAR STREET!!! Maybe I am reading too much into this.
I think you are right. What you have found just has to be his family but there are so many questions I need answers too. However, I am so pleased about what I know so far.
Julie
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Hi
If you have or can get Peter's marriage cert then we may have a father's name.
Ian
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Just re-read your post about the marriage cert. We'll have to wait then.
Ian
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I don't hold out much hope of finding anything about him as I am sure that Ostram is a common name in Sweden.
His name would most probably have been Öström. The name at that time wasn't that common so looking for his father might be possible.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
I have now received the marriage certificate for Peter Charles Ostram brother-in-law to my great x 2 grandfather Eduard Andersson. I was correct in my guess that he was a mariner when he arrived in England so the Merchant Service I found for a Peter Ostran may have been his. He was a bachelor aged 29 - 11 years older than Mary Imison when they married at the same Parish church as Eduard and Caroline on 22nd January 1852. His address was Holmes Wharf, Sunderland. It has also confirmed the address I had for Mary. Her and her sister and Mother Eleanor were missing from the 1851 census. Her father was living elsewhere with my great x 2 grandmother and her brother. Then I found a record for them that was greatly mis-transcribed living in Low Street, Sunderland.
Peter Charles Ostram's father is named as Peter Lawson Ostram, a Shipwright and alive at the time of the wedding. Ancestry has thrown up no records at all and there is nothing on Familysearch so I don't hold out much hope.
I am going to try to trace their witnesses Margaret Stokell and George Lord.
I have tried to attach the certificate but it is saying the file is too large.
Julie
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I have tried to attach the certificate but it is saying the file is too large.
I have found it in your tree. Let's hope I can find something here in Sweden.
Ian
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I think the Lawson could be Larsson.
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I am sorry to say that I cannot find any Peter Lawson (Larsson) Öström here in Sweden.
Ian
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Hi ian
That is OK. Thank you so much for looking. I really appreciate your efforts. Maybe he is not Swedish but Norwegian or Danish. Maybe Peter was lying on his marriage certificate like Eduard did.
All is not lost however. The marriage certificate did confirm a few things such as their addresses at the time of their marriage. Their witnesses were Margaret Stokell and George Lord. I looked for both on the census. I found Margaret Stokell and just a couple if doors away were Eduard's wife, mother, sister and illegitimate child. I have searched for three years for them in 1861 but couldn't find them as they were mis transcribed. I also found Stokells in Sedgefield where my Great x 3 originated from so there may be a family connection.
There were a few George Lords.one of them a ship owner so maybe the one.
The search continues!