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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: paul_w on Monday 11 November 13 20:05 GMT (UK)
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Hello and I am researching this person, my great great great grandfather, he was born in Ludlow abt 1798 according to several censuses, resident in Chepstow 1841, 1851 and 1861, died in Chepstow in 1871.
Anyone have any help to offer please?
Many thanks in advance.
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Hi there
Plenty of Watkins baptisms, burials and marriages on these parish record transcriptions although I can't see a baptism yet for David around 1798
http://www.melocki.org.uk/salop/LudlowPart2.html
Shirl
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Hello Shirl,
Thanks very much for the reply and link, I've had a look also and can't see a match. I'll maybe have a look at some Chepstow parish registers again, or wait in hope for some inspiration.
Thanks again,
Paul
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Hi Paul,
I've been looking for this baptism for some time. Which of the children are you descended from? My link is his son Alfred, my gggrandfather .
;)
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Thanks for the message,
I am descended from William Watkins, my gggrandfather (born 1825 Chepstow, died 1871 Chepstow), he was an older brother of Alfred (b1836).
1851 and 1861 Cenuses say that David Watkins was born Ludlow Shropshire but like you I have been unable to find anything to confirm this.
You probably already know much of this, he married Caroline Smart in Clifton Bristol, 22 Feb 1819, and is shown as Davy Watkins, Source of this is Collection:St Andrew; Date Range:1777- 1839; Film Number:1595528 (this Ancestry found for me but no more information than this).
Apparently it was common for people to boat from Chepstow to Bristol to marry, a romantic day out...
I imagine there would have been witnesses to this marriage which just might be family members, maybe from Ludlow. However I haven't pursued this at the moment.
A few things come into my mind, perhaps his baptised name was not David? Also if he did travel from Ludlow to Chepstow, perhaps other 'Watkins' came with him.
Have you had any luck with the 'Smart' family?
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I have a copy of the marriage entry, but from memory, neither one was a family member. Pretty sure one of them was the parish clerk.
And the Smarts are just as much of a problem. Caroline's mother's death cert shows her to be the widow of James, a cooper. The only burial I can find for a James Smart in Chepstow, in 1824, makes him quite a bit younger than Mary, if her age on the census is correct. There's a John Smart who looks to be a brother of Caroline, he's also a sawyer and a James baptised in 1799. But where James & Mary married, I'm not sure...yet.
My ggrandmother, Mary, daughter of Alfred, married twice. The second time, as a young widow (with 5 children) was to James William Smart, the son of James, the son of John, Caroline's brother.
::)
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Thanks for the message, I've not been able to pinpoint a death for Mary Smart (mother of Caroline). Search results give me so many and none seem to fit.
Can you tell me when and where Mary Smart died?
The last piece of information which I have is the 1851 census where she is living with David & Caroline Watkins & family in Mounton Road.
I've looked at Chepstow parish registers, (I guess you may have also) both at St Mary's Parish Church and at Ebbw Vale and have found a few Smarts, MaryAnn Smart, Millington-Smart and Smart-Webb. Not sure where they fit in. I intend to revisit Chepstow and/or Ebbw Vale for further searches re Smart & Watkins.
Your help regarding the death of Mary Smart will be appreciated.
Paul
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there are transcriptions of some of the Chepstow parish registers on the Forest of Dean site
http://www.forest-of-dean.org.uk/
I have Mary's death cert. She died 17-12-1851 age given as 93, widow of James Smart. Death registered the following day by Caroline Watkins, present at the death. Abode given as Chepstow.
I'm pretty sure the Millington Smarts do not fit in, wealthy, with property in the West Indies, unless it's out of wedlock. From memory, they're in Tidenham and would seem unlikely to be related to coopers & sawyers. Although the Smart families I've looked at use the middle name Campbell every now and again which may come from the wealthy Smarts, unless they were just trying to claim a relationship.
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Thanks regarding Mary Smart died 1851, yes I've found it now on BMD, but couldn't see it on Ancestry.
I've found several 'Smarts', Eleanor Millington Smart married a Francis Smart, she died in Tidenham 1856 so that fits in with what you mentioned. I've also found 'Eleanor Smart Webb' who married John Farish in 1818. Elinor Smart married a Thomas Lloyd, 1757. Thomas Smart married Ann Probert 1828. Ben Wixey married Martha Smart 1832.
I'm not sure whether any of these are relevant.
Thanks also for the Forest of Dean link.
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I've just stumbled across this after googling Smart and Campbell.
I am descended from the Smart family and my Grandmother was a Campbell Sloan. Her mother, a Campbell Smart, was born and lived on Tidenham Chase at Firgrove.
The Campbell connection is to do with Jamaica (Archibald was a governer I think) and we had a portrait of one of the young Smarts being rescued from an alligator in Kingston.
My father thought the Campbells and Smarts were probably friends, but in the past I have stumbled across a link from an old newspaper reproting on the young Smarts and their Uncle Campbell in Jamaica. I have letters from Francis Smart to his wife in Powder House Farm, Tutshill, near Chepstow and one of my great, great uncles (I think a William Smart) lived at Oak Cliff in Woodcroft before moving to Bristol or Bath as an old man in the late 1800s or early 1900s. He was remembered by an old lady who lived near Tidenham when I was a little girl in the 1960s, being driven down the road in his horse and carriage. She was a little girl at that time and he, an elderly man.
I lived in Tidenham as a child and, in my teems, rang the bells at Tidenham Church, one of which was given to the church by a Smart who was church warden - probably in the 1800s. There is also a gravestone in the belfry with other Smarts on it (more of the family) but difficult to see now because of countless bellringers standing on it.
Tidenham Church has grave stones in the boundary wall for several Smarts from the 1600s. One was Mary Tudor Smart and others had the usual Smart names - John, William, Elizabeth, Mary. My Grandmother was Elizabeth Mary Campbell Sloan, Her mother was Eliza Mary Campbell Gee (nee Smart).
I don't know of any Watkins's in the family, but have a friend who is a Watkins and we were at school together.
I don't know if you're still looking for link to the Watkins family, but let me know and I can try to find out more from my friend.
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Welcome to Rootschat! ;D
If you're related to the Tidenham Smarts, I don't think you'll be related to the Watkins/Smart family. I think your Smarts were the wealthy, landowning ones. The Smarts with the Watkins link were coopers & sawyers living in Chepstow, no wealth or land there, I'm afraid.
:D
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Thanks for the posts, yes as Osprey is correct, my Smart/Watkins connection is at Chepstow, sawyers as Osprey says and not connected to Tidenham Smarts. From what I have found out they had no 'wealth' (except apart from happiness? who knows).