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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Revolution on Saturday 23 November 13 05:35 GMT (UK)
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Hi Folks
My wife wants to take a test to see her 'deep ancestry' but I thought it a good opportunity to also also see if there are any recent genetic matches so wanted to have a more inclusive test.
Ive read the comparisons between the products but its still confusing for me.
I think Ive narrowed it down to:
mtFullSequence from FTDNA which is on special for 169$ which covers the deep ancestry plus more modern matching and 23andme which costs 99$ plus 65$ postage.
The Geno 2.0 appears to only be deep ancestry and is also on special for $159.95
Any thought about the two options - have I correctly compared them?
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Maternal DNA does not really allow for recent genetic matches as the mutations occur too infrequently. Any maternal Haplogroup you find yourself to be in will likely age from several thousand years back, unlike paternal mutations which can easily occur every generation.
You should also consider National Geographic's Geno 2 test:-
http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/product/best-sellers/home/geno-2.0---genographic-project-participation-and-dna-ancestry-kit (http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/product/best-sellers/home/geno-2.0---genographic-project-participation-and-dna-ancestry-kit)
http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Genographic_Project (http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Genographic_Project)
which is currently $159 and includes an autosomal test as well as a maternal test and also one of BritainsDNA's maternal tests:-
http://www.britainsdna.com/products/mtdna (http://www.britainsdna.com/products/mtdna)
The most detailed of these test is the $169/$199 FTDNA FGS test but this rarely yields any more interesting information (unless a string of numbers and letters is of interest to you) than the other tests, and never will imo*. The best value test is the National Geographic one as as well as finding out your mtdna Haplogroup you will also get your autosomal DNA analysed (and if you are a man also your paternal DNA).
* 1) European maternal DNA is very spread out compared to European paternal DNA which is much more geographically specific**
2) paternal DNA contains mutations in every generation or so which allows estimates of migration paths whereas the spread out nature of maternal DNA and distance between mutations (thousands of years) is very random.
** One theory is that most of our maternal European ancestors were in Europe much before most of our paternal ancestors. The theory goes that men of Haplogroup R1b only entered Europe 6-7000 years ago and by one means or the other replaced the older Haplogroup G2 men, and stole their women. Having been in Europe for a longer time, and perhaps being hunter gatherers rather than farmers, means the maternal groups have scattered over wider areas than their "younger" male counterparts whose descendants can be quite easily pinpointed today.
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Thanks supermoussi for the great info. Ill have another look at the Nat Geo product and catch it while its on special.
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Oh btw, there is one "recent ancestry" use for the maternal tests actually.
Say if you research your maternal line and suspect your Grt Grt Grandmother was a Mary SMITH of Puddletown but are not 100% sure, if you found another direct maternal descendant of Mary SMITH on GenesReunited, but through a different daughter, you could both take an mtdna test and compare Haplogroups.
There are so many different Haplogroups that it is very unlikely that two people picked at random would share the same one, so if you match the other descendant of Mary SMITH then you would have 99% confirmation that you have got your papertrail correct.
If you don't match however, then you know for sure that one or the other of you has made an error in your papertrail and, until you work out which, it would be a waste of time researching this line further back.
Hope this makes sense!
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The tests from the Genographic Project and BritainsDNA will only give your wife a haplogroup assignment but will not allow her to search the databases for genealogical matches. You do get a very refined haplogroup assigment from the Genographic Project and you can transfer your results to FTDNA, but this still doesn't allow you to participate in the matching database because the Geno 2.0 test looks at selected SNPs across the mt genome so the results are not compatible. According to FTDNA if you have an exact full sequence match 95% of the time you will share a common ancestor within the last 22 generations (about 550 years). 5% of matches will fall outside this timeframe and they could potentially go back a very long way. 550 years is also a very deep timeframe for finding matches on the maternal line where the surname keeps changing every generation upon marriage. As an alternative your wife could just take the basic mtDNAPlus test which is now very cheap. See my blog post for background:
http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/mitochondrial-dna-testing-at-new-low.html
Some people with common DNA signatures have literally thousands of matches with this test but if you have a rarer signature then the test can sometimes have a genealogical application if used in combination with documentary evidence.
Your wife might also like to consider the 23andMe test. This gives an mtDNA haplogroup but she would also benefit from the health and traits information and the ability to find matches in 23andMe's DNA Relatives database. There is also the Family Finder test from FTDNA which works on the same principles but is purely a genealogical DNA test. See Tim Janzen's autosomal DNA testing comparison chart:
http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart
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Thanks for the responses.
So I am looking at two tests. The Deep genealogical and a genealogical match such as the FTDNA Family Finder test.
The 23andme is prohibitively expensive for the postage.
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So basically, it's pointless the females amongst us having our DNA tested, is it?
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So basically, it's pointless the females amongst us having our DNA tested, is it?
No but it is mainly a deep ancestry test unlike paternal tests. All mtDNA tests will tell you which branch of the female tree you are in, i.e. you might be H5a1 or U5a1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mitochondrial_DNA_haplogroup
and if you take an FGS test you will find extra mutations that may extend your definition to, say, H5a1c1a, but do not improve your understanding of where your female line came from or who you are related to recently. For example if you found you were H5a you would know you were in a common European Haplogroup, etc., but what would you deduce from testing to a lower level? Look at the H5 project and look at the differences between the close groups to get an idea for yourself, i.e. what difference can you deduce between subgroups H5a1c, H5a1c1a & H5a1c2?
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtdna_h5/default.aspx?section=mtresults
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Thank you, but as all I really want to know is whether my paternal g.g.grandmother was Spanish or Portuguese, I don't think I'll bother paying for my DNA to be tested. ;D
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Lizzie, The mitochondrial DNA test that we've been discussing would not in any case work in your situation. It tracks the matrilineal line - your mother, your mother's mother, your mother's mother's mother and so on back in time - as shown in this diagram:
http://www.isogg.org/mtdnapath.htm
A mtDNA test specifically does not tell you about all your ancestry on your mother's side of the family. In the situation you describe an mtDNA test would, therefore, not tell you anything about your paternal gg grandmother.
A Family Finder test could in the long run potentially tell you whether your ancestor was Spanish or Portuguese but you would be reliant on getting matches with people in Spain or Portugal to confirm the relationship and the database is not yet at the stage where you might be able to get such an answer. However, the test does now only cost $99 (about £61) and the value of the test will grow over time as you get more matches. See my blog post here which explains how the test works:
http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/new-family-finder-test-from-ftdna.html
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The problem is, there is 2 x g.grandmother (I have no name for her) who might be Spanish or Portuguese, then there is her son (my g.grandfather who had an English name and I think was possibly adopted, or just changed his name), then his daughter (my gran), then her son (my dad), then me. So the line goes backwards and forwards from female to male to female. I guess I'll never solve the problem until I can trace my g.grandfather from when my gran was born to his own birth.
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Lizzie, The Family Finder test covers all your ancestors on all your family lines for the last five generations or so. The test works by giving you matches with genetic cousins. You then have to go back to the paper trail and work out which line the match is on. You could potentially have matches with people who are related to you through your 2x g. grandmother. The drawback at present is that this test is still fairly new on the market and has only been available at an affordable price for the last six months or so. The database still has a long way to go to reach critical mass. The Spanish and Portuguese are not well represented in the database except by proxy with Americans of Spanish or Portuguese ancestry. It is therefore probably a long-term investment but it doesn't cost very much so it might be worthy a try.
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Bear in mind that Portugal is only c.100 km wide, has been invaded repeatedly and doesn't have a 20ft brick wall around it so people criss-cross the border. The difference between the DNA of the Portugese and the Eastern Spaniards is going to be less than the difference between Western and Eastern Spaniards.
You might eventually be lucky and find spomething specific but it is always going to be a long shot.
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It would probably be impossible to distinguish on the DNA alone between someone from Portugal and Spain. It is the genealogical information provided by the matches that would determine the origins. In theory Lizzie might have matches with third or fourth cousins with a documented paper trail to Spain or Portugal but it all depends on who else is in the database.
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DevonCrewys
I was thinking of buying Ancestry DNA kit for a relative but see it has $99.00 for 6 months. I called their number and on the first try got cut off after ten minutes of waiting.
Finally spoke to an Op. and she said it is best to buy on-line for the cheaper rate. I thought this $99.00 was a one-time payment so thought I would ask an Ancestry member what my relative would get for $99.00 and what happens to your kit after 6 months.
I am a member of 23&Me and Family Tree but Ancestry confuses me somewhat. Lookin2
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DevonCrewys
I was thinking of buying Ancestry DNA kit for a relative but see it has $99.00 for 6 months. I called their number and on the first try got cut off after ten minutes of waiting.
Finally spoke to an Op. and she said it is best to buy on-line for the cheaper rate. I thought this $99.00 was a one-time payment so thought I would ask an Ancestry member what my relative would get for $99.00 and what happens to your kit after 6 months.
I am a member of 23&Me and Family Tree but Ancestry confuses me somewhat. Lookin2
The Ancestry test is only available in the US so you wouldn't be able to buy it anyway. The Ancestry test lacks all the bells and whistles of the other two tests. Also you need to maintain an Ancestry subscription to have full access to the trees. Why don't you buy your relative a 23andMe or Family Finder test? If you've already tested with the other companies it would help you to have more relatives in the database so that you can work out which side of the tree your matches are on.