RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: deebel on Tuesday 10 December 13 18:48 GMT (UK)
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Where is North Hill in Devon?
Trying to find a H Creber born June 1815 North Hill Devon.
Which Parish or area should I search?
Thanks
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I found on FindMyPast an Elizabeth Creber bpt North Hill, Cornwall, daughter of John and Mary.
If you search the database below you will find a few more names.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/
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From GenUKI:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/NorthHill/index.html
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I know there is a North Hill in Cornwall. Is there an area in Devon called North Hill?
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Not according to the GenUKI Devon Towns & Parishes List?
Nor on the Devon Gazetteer - apart from:
North Hill (farm) - see in Chagford
North Hill Place (street) - see in Plymouth
Where did you see a reference to North Hill, Devon?
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North Hill in SE Cornwall is located between Liskeard and Launceston, so is not more than 15 miles from the Devon border.
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Hi
I lived in Plymouth, Devon for over 20 years. North Hill was to the south of Mutley Plain:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0x7w/
How often did I pass that way :)
Gadget
PS - think it might be Plymouth, St Andrew or Charles
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Note also spelling variants for the name, e.g. Crebar.
Do you really only have an initial (H) for your Creber?
Where did the birthdate info come from?
FindMyPast has a Henry Creber baptised 1816 in Plymouth.
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FindMyPast has a Henry Creber baptised 1816 in Plymouth.
I think that one is Meavy, so not Plymouth :-\
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I saw three ;)
CREBER Henry 1815 Peter Tavy Devon
CREBER Henry 1816 Plymouth Devon
CREBER Henry 1816 Meavy Devon
but I don't pay for details.
The Meavy one is in the 1851 census.
Possibly of interest in 1851 is Elizabeth Gale, married daughter of Mary Creber. Elizabeth was born in North Hill c1817 and married William Gale in 1844.
If she was the sister of "H" her marriage certificate would give the father's name.
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Well, as I said, I lived down there for over 20 years and the only North Hill that I know of in Devon is in Plymouth - map link given - Reply #6
:)
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I'm not sure what the argument is.
In fact I have no idea what it is.
You reported that North Hill is in Plymouth.
I believe you.
I see a record at FindMyPast for a Henry Creber baptised in Plymouth.
Meavy is not in Plymouth.
North Hill is in Plymouth.
....................
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I'd still like to see the original record! ;D
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No argument - just confirming Plymouth :)
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That's why I posted it - so if someone has access to FindMyPast, they can see what it says.
All ***I*** said is that this is what FindMyPast says.
What I'd like is some more detail about the question ... if someone has a birthdate for someone, they know something else about them ............
Meanwhile, I got peeved that I couldn't find the 1851 Creber family in 1841, and looked until I did. They are in Beer Ferris, Buckland Monachorum, Tavistock, transcribed at Anc'y as Cober and corrected by a user in 2011 to Creber (except the correction apparently never got indexed).
John 55 farmer (as was Mary in 1851)
Mary 50
Ann 20
William 18
Walter 16
Emlyn 14
Jane 11
Richard 9
Mary 6
Daughter Elizabeth had already flown, it appears, and if there was a child H that child would be gone too. Mary is shown as 60 in 1851 (despite Anc'y calling her 40), which might make her a tad young to have a child baptised in 1815, but 50 and 60 are such nice round numbers.
The very specific North Hill connection with the same surname seems to me like something I would investigate.
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I do have further information. My question was specifically about North Hill in Devon.
The source is a headstone inscription
Henry Creber Born at North Hill Devon 20 June 1815
I do have the dc which notes Father : John Creber (decd) Farmer and Mother Anne (nee Withercomb) (decd)
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Hi
I've found another North Hill, Devon and it would fit better with a farmer as a father:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0x7y/
It's just to the south of Ottery St Mary
Gadget
PS - also one nearer to Barnstaple :-\
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I don't understand why the available information would not be provided. Where the North Hill in question might be could just be related to where the person was known to reside.
The 1841 household I posted, a Creber family in which daughter Elizabeth is shown in 1851 as born in North Hill, was headed by a John who was a farmer. Certainly an amazing coincidence, and to think I found it all by myself.
It is entirely possible that the Mary to whom he was married, who was a widowed farmer in 1851 and at least 5 years younger than John, was a second wife.
I don't suppose we might be told where the headstone happens to be ... or when the death was ... With parents' info on it, one suspects it was a childhood death, but one just doesn't know. Or hm, it is not an English death certificate ...
edit - I missed the connection but Devon Maid posted the obvious baptism of the Elizabeth I referred to in the 1851 census:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1938965
1817, daughter of John and Mary; father's occupation hind (skilled farm worker).
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Had a look at FindMyPast. The image of baptism register that is LISTED as 1816 Plymouth is actually baptism of. Henry Creber, son of Henry and Mary, at Meavy. So the search listing for plymouth on FindMyPast is wrong.
Cocksie
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Sarah Creber married Robert Stewart in Scotland in 1878.
In 1891, the household is in Ardrossan, Ayrshire.
Her father is Henry Creber, aged 75, born in England, retired contractor.
Scottish death certificates give people's parents' names.
Lewtrenchard and Buckland Monachorum, Devon, where the family I have referred to lived, form a roughly equilateral triangle with North Hill, Cornwall, about 10 miles on each side, with Launceston between North Hill and Lewtrenchard. I don't think I would be surprised to see North Hill, part of the area around Launceston that comprises the border between Cornwall and Devon, referred to as being in Devon by the daughter (the informant?) of someone who died in Scotland 75+ years later, especially someone whose family may well have settled in Devon not long after he was born, and who then married and had children in various other places. I would also not be surprised if the person's mother's name was mistaken. Of course, the death certificate should also state the mother's surname, if the death was in Scotland, or New South Wales, or Ontario ...
That Henry Creber died in 1891 in Scotland, I believe. In 1881 he is shown at Anc'y as Henry Crebar, born in England about 1816, in Barrhead, Renfrewshire. He and his son-in-law Robert Bromfield Stewart are both contractors. In 1851, the family may be in Finchley, recorded as Crever, Henry's place of birth given only as Devon. That Henry married Jane Titchener in Berkshire in 1841.
Am I getting warm?
(thanks cocksie for that lookup)
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FindMyPast has interesting marriage
John Creber and Mary Withycombe 20 jan 1810 Tavistock.
A lot of baptisms to this couple in Northhill
And tying into the census info other chatterers have already found.
DC info only as good as informant's knowledge .....ie Ann Withicombe as listed as mother quite possibly really Mary
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An enormous tree at mundia.com has Henry Creber 1816 married to Jane Titchener in 1841 but shows no other details.
The John Creber who was in Devon in 1841 is also in a big tree: born 1756 in Marytavy, son of John and Ann, married 1815 in Tavistock to Mary Ann Dinner, died 1845. No son Henry shown, but out of sight out of mind is the rule in family trees, as anyone whose ancestors, like mine, left the ancestral haunts before living memory can tell you. That John did have a brother Henry. And his eldest daughter Elizabeth -- the one shown in the census as born North Hill, Devon -- is shown in the tree as born in North Hill, Cornwall, 1818 (although it was 1817).
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I forgot about that Withycombe marriage that was mentioned. The tree at Mundia shows the marriage to Mary Ann Dinner as 1815 Tavistock (no documentation).
That tree is owned by one of the two people who corrected the surname in the 1841 census at Ancestry.
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and losing the thread, I also forgot to remember that deebel did give us, in a reply,
"Mother Anne (nee Withercomb)"
So there we do have it.
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Just adding to Cornwall/Devon possibilities - the children of my ancestors in 1800s regularly listed parents as being born or living at a Cornish parish/town and listed Devonshire as well OR sometimes listed parents birthplace such as "Tavistock, Cornwall Devonshire". No doubt they were working from memory or guesswork or just plain confused many years later.
Cocksie
Adding
Without having further info I'm thinking OP should be looking at baptisms in North Hill as listed at the Cornwall online parish clerk website with parents John & Mary (nee Withycombe) - no Henry but there is an Elizabeth (as another chatterer has already listed), Sarah, William, marianne etc.
And family then heads elsewhere.
Out of interest what death date do we have for Henry? Can't see it on this thread
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And re the enormous Mundia tree and some of the names listed.....
The only marriage that I can find in Tavistock for a Mary Ann Diner in 1815 is to a John Culm
But perhaps the transcription is incorrect and tree owner has viewed the actual register?
Cocksie
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We don't have a death date. All we were given was an initial, surname, and "North Hill, Devon".
When I am asking for help with something, I give all the info that is likely to be relevant, myself. And if I for some reason neglected to do that, and was asked for it, I would offer it up immediately. Divining the answer to this question without that information would have taken a crystal ball.
The name, for starters. The age and place of death ... which, if my deductions are correct, are the most relevant things in the whole tale: the individual died many many miles (with even more intervening locations) and many many years from "home".
I don't think there's much doubt that North Hill, Cornwall, the very first suggestion in the thread, is the place in question!
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Hi Again :)
Amazing what we can do with a bit of info - I checked the OP's previous postings and find a fair proportion are on Scottish boards.
I've just had a look on Scotland's People and find this death, which matches:
Ardrossan, Ayrshire
Henry Creber, Retired Waterworks Contactor, widower of Jane Tichner, aged 76. Died at 6 a.m. July 8th 1891 at Bayview Cottage, Ardrossan Road, Saltcoats.
Parents - JohnCreber, farmer, dec. and Ann, m.s. Withercomb, dec.
Cause - Anurism, 7 months, Dropsy and Debility, 3 mths. As Certified by Robt S. Kinner, Surgeon.
Informant - Walter Creber, son. Gorbals Waterworks, Barrhead.
Maybe the Scottish censuses might give more info.
Gadget.
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The 1891 census shows Henry living with his son in law, Robert Stewart, at Ardrossan Road, Ardrossan. Henry is shown as a widower, aged 75, retired contractor, born England.
Henry's daughter (Sarah Stewart) is shown as born England circa 1849.
This fits with Janey's 1881 find.
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I did put the 1891 census there earlier too. ;) I wish the pages of threads were longer, it would be harder to lose track of what's there! (see reply #19 for the rundown)
I figured out his 1891 death by trial and error at SP without spending credits, since I don't have any functional ones at the moment.
Interesting confirmation of the Scottish connection. I had first suspected Oz and did a quick check in NSW deaths to see whether that was where the parents' names came from, then tried censuses again and bingo, 1891 in Scotland ... Lucky he lived long and prospered.
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I always have a few SP credits - still looking for a missing link in one of my lines ;D
Scottish certs are wonderful - so much info for full confirmation - it looks as if Walter got his paternal granny's name wrong though (Ann = Mary).
Gadget
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Oh I know! Once I finally figured out who my grx3 grfather was in one line (after finding I had a grx2 grfather, and getting very specific info about his father from his marriage certificate), his life was still a blank between baptism in the 1790s in Wiltshire and old age and death in the workhouse in Wiltshire, except that his son reported consistently that he was born in Bristol himself. Well, somebody at another site, and I have no idea why, looked for him in Scotland, and damned if he hadn't remarried there in 1839 (I have since found a record of his first marriage and wife's death in Bristol). And then, after literally years of looking for him in the 1841 English census, I turned to Scotland and there he was, large as life. His parental info wasn't actually on the Scottish parish record of his marriage ... but he had decided to go native and insert his mother's surname into his name, so there was no doubt. And on his second wife's death, she was identified as wife of him, with his occupation, so again, solid evidence.
For all that the English set about turning the world into one big bureaucracy, they did a damned bad job on that civil registration thing. ;) Imagine, if somebody back in 1837 (or before, in parish records) had thought women, not just fathers, actually mattered, how much easier our lives would be now! I might even know who the family of my grx3 grandmother in that line was.
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Thanks all for your various inputs. I do have some of this information already but there is much to peruse in the thread.
It wasn't my intention to be evasive with detail..I simply wanted to know the location of a North Hill in Devon however the additional info is much appreciated.
I will come back to this later.
Thanks
deebel
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Re Henry Creber, who died in Ardrossan, who had a daughter Sarah who married Robert Steuart. These are all my relatives, and am able to provide details if you are examining this route. Likewise would like to hear from any who might also be descended from this Henry Creber.
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I forgot to mention, that all these references to Stewart, are actually meant to say Steuart, but as you know sometimes spelled incorrectly on census infor etc. I can take that Steuart family back a further two hundred years. I also believe I can take the John Creber with son Henry Creber back another one or two hundred years.
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Hello! My first post! Anyone still there?
I am descended from Henry Creber, through his son Walter, and his daughter Elizabeth, who was my mother’s paternal grandmother. Has anyone nailed down Henry’s birth and parents, or found out about his wife Jane Titchener?
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Hi and welcome to the board.
I did look at Henry Creber although I haven't looked at files on him for quite a while .... more priority things relating to my own dead rellies!
I never really took him back further although his parents were named on his death certificate. John Creber and Ann Withercombe? Or was it Mary?
I have a note that Jane Titchener died in Germany around 1866. Presumably Henry was working with a British contractor building railways. The fact that Austria and Prussia decided to have a bit of a do (Austro-Prussian war 1866) may have prompted Henry returning to Britain.
Did Elizabeth marry a Clark?
If you make a few posts you will be able to send PM's. Also I recall there was a poster from Canada who said he could take Henry way back.
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Thanks so much for replying Deebel! I was wondering whether I was trying to restart a conversation in a room that had been empty for years.
Your tip on Henry in Scotland allowed me to get lots of stuff on him, including his will, which was very interesting - eg he had daughters in Salt Lake City and Melbourne. At least 2 of his children, Victor and Henrie, were down as being born in France, which seemed to back up him building railways there. So Jane dying in Germany is intriguing.
Walter’s daughter Elizabeth married Robert Bruce Clark on 1 July 1903. My grandfather, Malcolm Bruce, was born on 24 Dec 1904. He had siblings but I haven’t been able to identify them yet. None appear in the 1911 Census. Will have a trawl of the Barrhead Clark births in the 1910s when I feel rich enough.
I had noticed that Canadian, Steuart/Creber poster with his enticing centuries back claim and was hoping he’d pitch back in. As you suggest, I do a bit of posting, then try to PM him..
Cheers
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You should sign into SP and do an advanced search of Barrhead Clark Births then sort the list in date order. You will probably be able to home in to a number of connected probables without spending any credits. Having a quick look i saw a Grace Margaret Clark birth which I would reckon is after Walters wife Margaret and his daughter Grace (sister of Elizabeth)
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Excellent advice! I found Margaret Grace that way, and also Robert. I think there’s another one, but haven’t tracked them down yet.