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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: Shepherdess on Wednesday 01 January 14 16:18 GMT (UK)
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I'm researching the Dormers. Henry Dormer was born in Denham in 1820. He married Martha Gwyn in 1842 in Paddington. Subsequently they lived in that area. However, I'm trying to find Henry's father named John on Henry's marriage certificate and described as a brewer. I wonder if anybody can help me as I realy am stuck!! Many thanks Shepherdess
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Hi Shepherdess
Have you discounted this entry https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJ6W-NKM (for this birth, parents' marriage here I think https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJ13-BJ5).
Henry's age varied in the early censuses (1851 he showed as aged 40, later censuses he showed closer to 1820).
Monica
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Looking at his parish marriage entry from 1842, there is a Charlotte who acted as witness. The family above, John and Charlotte, also had a daughter Charlotte https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NRN1-LLL
On the 1842 marriage, you have as witnesses (can't make out Charlotte's surname as yet on this):
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I am rubbish at deciphering writing :-X but could this Charlotte's surname on the 1842 marriage entry be Perry?
A possible marriage on 3rd Qrt 1838 between a Charlotte Dormer and (maybe, shows on the same page) a Francis Perry. Ref: Marylebone London vol. 1, pg 179....who I think also shows as a witness for Henry's marriage in 1842.
There is an entry in 1861 for a Charlotte Perry, 43, lodger, dress maker b. Denham - ref: RG 9/80/20/35.
Monica
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Thanks for that - I need to digest this and I'll be back tomorrow - Shepherdess
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Again, many thanks. I'm 90% certain this is the right John Dormer. I'm disappointed to think I paid (not very much) for Bucks Family History Society to search for me and they didn't come up with it!! Never mind. Is there any way I can find out if John Dormer was a brewer? On his daughters marriage certificate it clearly states John was deceased. BFHS did come up with this but at the time I had nothing definite to link it to. On Henry's marriage certificate it just states his parentage. Does the certificate not have to say weather he was dead or not at the time of the marriage?
I know John died young but i can't find any more children, I'm sure there must have been some.
as the census that shows Charlotte on her own there is also a dormer listed - her neice - if I remember rightly. that will be worth following up. Again very many thanks - shepherdess
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Many of the C18th S.Bucks Dormers seem to Bricklayers. There is one publican listed on the A2A though but it seems to be in Marlow?:-
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=008-clayton&cid=1-24-10-11&kw=john%20dormer#1-24-10-11 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=008-clayton&cid=1-24-10-11&kw=john%20dormer#1-24-10-11)
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I'm not sure that would be the right area but thanks for that anyway. Back in those days, I don't think a brewer would be quite the same as we know them today. There were no pubs but you could brew the beer/ale in your own house an sell it in the front room! I don't know if you needed a license so it might be difficult to track this one down.
Any further information on Denham and the inhabitants would be most interesting. Thank you Shepherdess
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" There were no pubs . . . . . "
Ye Olde Fighting Cocks, St Albans, Hertfordshire. Considered to be the oldest pub in Britain (8th century) by the Guinness Book of Records. Claim disputed by . . . . .
". . . . . brew the beer/ale in your own house an sell it in the front room!" = "Beer/Alehouse"
Buckinghamshire Sessions Records: Volume 1. 1678 to 1694
MIDSUMMER SESSION, 1691.
James Fish of Great Marlow, brewer, fined 13s. 4d. for selling a barrel of ale and a barrel of the best beer to William Hopkins, an unlicensed alehouse keeper.
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Booze...always with issues, from the begining of brewing ;D
Struggle getting any leads for John Dormer, brewer or not. However, thought this would fit maybe for Charlotte Chandler's christening? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/ND4Y-H6G
Monica
Added: Some online trees for the Chandler family in Denham, give mother Mary's maiden name as Kedge. Marriage 1764.
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The one thing to remember about Denham is that it is on the borders of Bucks, Herts and Middx.
:)
The one thing to remember about Denham is that it is on the outskirts of Aylesbury(Quainton). Bucks
;D
There are a number of "Dormer" families in that second area . . . . .
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I know John died young but i can't find any more children, I'm sure there must have been some.
as the census that shows Charlotte on her own there is also a dormer listed - her neice - if I remember rightly. that will be worth following up. Again very many thanks - shepherdess
Just to try and piece together a little better what we have in London so far.
From 1861, this is the possible entry we had for Charlotte Perry/Dormer with a niece:
Frederick J Shroll 28 police constable
Sarah M Shroll 25
Sarah Fleet 64
Eliza Mosely 12
Anne Price 8
Charlotte Perry 43, lodger, dressmaker, b. Denham
Emma Dormer 18, niece, house servant, b. Portland, Middlesex
RG 9/80/20/35
I thought this Emma might be the daughter of Charles showing here in 1851 in Chelsea:
Charles Dormer 29, Ostler, b. Denham
Caroline Dormer 30 b. Brenchley, Kent
Emma Dormer 8 b. Paddington
HO107/1474/192/3
Another family that you may want to follow up further on is one headed up by a Thomas from Denham. From 1851 Paddington:
Thomas Dormer 30, tailor, b. Denham
Mary Dormer 33
Francis Dormer 7
Mary Dormer 5
Charles Dormer 10 Months
HO107/1467/555/60
Monica
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Charles Dormer, a widower and an Ostler by occupation (matching 1851) married a Caroline Underdown on 29 August 1847 at the parish church of St Marylebone. Witnesses to the marriage were a Thomas Dormer and a Mary Ann Dormer (who I think we also have now in Paddington in 1851).
Emma born therefore from first marriage?
Father John Dormer, now showing as a Porter and not showing as deceased on this entry.
A third marriage for Charles in Marylebone in 24 July 1853, marrying an Ann Woolford. Charles now showing as a Porter (this is what Henry was doing also at this time?). Same details for father John as above. Can't see family names for witnesses this time round (or not that we would recognise for now).
A possible burial entry for this Charles on 1 Mar 1854 in Chelsea St Luke at the age of 33. Pure supposition, this may be why daughter Emma showed with aunt Charlotte in 1861?
Monica
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Not had time to check all this through yet but it seems very logical. Mum's 100th birthday to day and she's just received the card and telegram from the queen so I'm afraid all this will be on the back burner this weekend as we're just about to start partying!! Thanks to you al l- Shepherdess
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WOW :D Many special happy returns to her. Have a great day :)
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The entire Dormer lineage is posted in a book on Google books called The History, Description and Antiquities of the Prebendal Church of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Thame, by Frederick Lee.
Congrats to your Mum!! Quite a milestone.
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Many t hanks for all your good birthday wishes - we had a great day. Back to the real world now. I've had a look at Frederick Lee's book listing. Before I go down that line can you tell me is it all in Latin?!! I know the great and the good will be there but will it have my lowly dormers included? It would be great to think it would. It would be fascinating to get an overall picture of this very diverse family. Many thanks for the information It has been greatly appreciated. I'll get to grips with all the other information given and get back soon. Shepherdess
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It's in English. No idea if it will solve your genealogy brick walls but it's a treasure trove of information on this family!
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I've given myself a new years treat and downloaded Frederick Lee's book and as I suspected my lowly Dormers aren't included. However, this is a fabulous book and everybody interested in Dormers or other notable families in Bucks should read it. There's lots that is difficult to read - Elizabethan English - but the amount of detail that is in there is wonderful. Thanks for your recommendation Larkspur!
A sorry sort of life poor Charles Dormer had. I'm going to find his first wife if I can and as you say, Emma was most probably the product of this marriage. I've looked for him when he was married to Ann Wolford but he must have died so soon after the marriage that its not surprising. I'll go on searching.
If anyone turns up anything further back re John's parentage It would be helpful. Regards, Shepherdess