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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: scottishmartin on Saturday 11 January 14 15:57 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
Currently researching my family history and hit a bit of a roadblock. Here are the details of the issue:
I can't find her in the 1901 census for stirling but know she died in the Stirling Combination Poorhouse in 1904 of Phthisis Pulmonalis (Tuberculosis) - I've also heard that the workhouse may have been used as the local hospital in the time period she died there, so this might explain why she wasn't there in 1901. Does anyone know where I can get access to her papers from the poorhouse?
I can't find her birth certificate although I know her parents where James Stewart and Ann Stewart m.d Lynch.
She was married to James Ward (Coalminer) although I can't find their marriage certificate either!
The family appears to have moved to Fife after 1912 though, as the death and marriage of James and Mary's son Thomas Ward happened there. (I can't find Thomas's Birth cert either though it should be around 1887, given his age at death and marriage) - Thomas's marriage cert shows their residence to be 40 Upper Castlehill, Stirling, although they are not in the 1911 census under this address.
Any help would be much appreciated, let me know if you need clarification or more information.
Best Regards,
Martin
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From her death cert in 1904 do you have an approximate age for Mary Ward/Stewart?
Kay
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From her death cert in 1904 do you have an approximate age for Mary Ward/Stewart?
Kay
Sorry, yes the death cert states an age of 35 at time of death (4 Nov 1904) by my reckoning that would put her birth year as 1869.
Best Regards,
Martin
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Mmm! Have you found any of them in a census?
Kay
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Mmm! Have you found any of them in a census?
Kay
I haven't been able to find any concrete record of any of them in the census. I have been trying to find at least Thomas or James Ward in the 1911 census just before Thomas gets married in 1912 in Stirling. Both Thomas and James occupation in 1912 (from Thomas's marriage cert) is Coal Miner, I wanted to search by that but ancestry only goes up to 1901 census for Scotland and Scotland's People doesn't seem to provide that function.
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The index on Scotland's People lists Mary as Mary Stewart Ward so maybe the couple never married. As you say the list allows limited search criteria.
In 1901 the only James and Mary Ward I can see (with James a coal miner) are living at New Cumnock, Ayrshire, as below but there is no Thomas and the age of Mary is out
Edit and in 1891 they had no Thomas
WARD, James 38 Coal Miner b Irvine, Ayrshire
WARD, Mary 37 bIrvine, Ayrshire
WARD, John G 10 b Irvine, Ayrshire
WARD, Jeanie H 8 b Irvine, Ayrshire
WARD, James 6 New Cumnock, Ayrshire
WARD, Mary H 3 b New Cumnock, Ayrshire
WARD, John Brother Married 34 Coal Miner b Irvine
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I wonder if Mary's parents could have been from Ireland, which is why there is no marriage for them in Scotland? Just a thought
Kay
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I wonder if Mary's parents could have been from Ireland, which is why there is no marriage for them in Scotland? Just a thought
Kay
Never thought about it that way, I know James son Thomas married a Sarah McVeigh - I believe there is an Irish connection to Sarah's family.
I think you may be right with James and Mary not being married, As in 1913 I found a marriage cert for a James Ward and Sarah Lamb in Lochgelly, Fife. I also found a death cert for James Ward in 1923 which states married to Sarah Jane Lamb. The key parts to this are that the death cert has him as a Builders Labourer in 1923 and living in Scoonie, Fife. In his son Thomas's death cert in 1959 it has Jame's occupation as Labourer and Thomas also died in Scoonie,Fife. Think this might be them?
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It's certainly a possibilty. When was James born based on the death and marriage cert? Presumably the death cert also names his parents
Kay
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It's certainly a possibilty. When was James born based on the death and marriage cert? Presumably the death cert also names his parents
Kay
It has James age at death of 53, which would make the birth around 1870. It lists his parents as John Ward (General Labourer) and Catherine McIntyre. The same parents are on the marriage cert between James and Sarah.
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But it doesn't seem to help finding this James pre his marriage!!
Kay
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Scotlands People has the death of a Catherine Ward in 1927 age 65 in Renfrew with other names listed as Mcintyre. However too young
Kay
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The Stirling Workhouse records are held by the Stirling Archives according to the workhouse site, but looking through the Stirling Archives site I can't see a specific reference to these records on their site.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Stirling/
Kay
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Presumably you have death record for Mary. Was death notified by a family member and does record give their details?
From some of the suggestions above, family may all have come from Ireland and possibly was not all together at times of censuses. Also there may well have been a number of relocations - several new pits opened in the Stirling area in the 1890's / 1900's and in my own family a number of mineworkers later moved to Fife from Stirling.
Possible family (mother not listed) in 1901 census (Ancestry) in Hamilton has father James Ward (aged 45) Colliery Stocker, and son Thomas (15) Colliery Labourer (both born in Ireland). There are 2 other children, Essie (Jessie?) aged 17 and James aged 12 - again listed as born in Ireland. Mother could have been back in Ireland or in hospital if already poorly? There are a couple of Mary Wards who might be candidates but ages / birthplaces not entirely consistent.
Regards
Sandy
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The Stirling Workhouse records are held by the Stirling Archives according to the workhouse site, but looking through the Stirling Archives site I can't see a specific reference to these records on their site.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Stirling/
Kay
Thanks Kay, I have sent off an email to the Stirling archives, so hopefully get some information on Mary's admittance etc... in a wee bit.
Presumably you have death record for Mary. Was death notified by a family member and does record give their details?
From some of the suggestions above, family may all have come from Ireland and possibly was not all together at times of censuses. Also there may well have been a number of relocations - several new pits opened in the Stirling area in the 1890's / 1900's and in my own family a number of mineworkers later moved to Fife from Stirling.
Possible family (mother not listed) in 1901 census (Ancestry) in Hamilton has father James Ward (aged 45) Colliery Stocker, and son Thomas (15) Colliery Labourer (both born in Ireland). There are 2 other children, Essie (Jessie?) aged 17 and James aged 12 - again listed as born in Ireland. Mother could have been back in Ireland or in hospital if already poorly? There are a couple of Mary Wards who might be candidates but ages / birthplaces not entirely consistent.
Regards
Sandy
Thanks Sandy, On Mary's death cert it shows Donald MacMillan (Poorhouse Governor) as the informant, no family is mentioned. I looked up the poorhouse in the census for 1901 and couldn't find Mary. Hopefully if I can get my hands on Mary's admission records for the poorhouse, it may outline family details etc...
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After contacting the archives at Stirling council today, they searched the parish records for poor relief and couldn't find any record of Mary. The archivist also informed me that the hospital records don't exist. :(
I did spot that they have (Combination Infectious Diseases Hospital minutes & ledger 1900 - 1948) on their website, so i've just sent back another email to see if that might contain anything - not holding out much hope for it though!
I guess the next step would be to trace the Irish passenger lists to see if they came across or went back at any point.
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I may be wrong but I don't think any records were kept of passengers travelling within the British Isles. At the time it would have been all within the UK
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime/archive/faq.aspx
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Looking at the family that SandyMcJ found in 1901 in 1911 the father James was still living in Hamilton with his married daughter Essie and son in law listed as John Ward. This time James is listed as a widower, but previously in 1901 he is listed as married. He also has a son Patrick aged 4 by another married woman Mary Keane
There is a Thomas Ward age 26 in living as a lodger in Ballengry West Fife (not far from Lochgelly) and working as a coal miner. His birth place is listed as Cavan Ireland
Edit - Just in case there is a connection RootsIreland has a baptism of a Thomas Ward born 15 Sept 1886 at Gallonboy Kingscourt CoCavan RC with parents listed as James Ward and Mary Ward with sponsers Peter Lynch and Essy Ward. There are baptisms for parents with the same names in Cavan for James 1889, John 1891, Bridget 1885 and Esther 1883. I can't see a death in Scotlands People for a Mary Ward mdn name Ward.
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I may be wrong but I don't think any records were kept of passengers travelling within the British Isles. At the time it would have been all within the UK
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime/archive/faq.aspx
Ah, ofcourse - I was forgetting for a minute that Ireland used to be part of the UK.
Apologies for the delayed response, I've not had a chance to do any research for a few months - at present i'm looking to see if I can find a MI for Mary Ward m.d Stewart - I know she died in the Stirling Combination Poorhouse in Nov 1904, so would expect a burial nearby (however given it was the poorhouse she may have a paupers grave - therefore no stone!). I know nothing about James and can't find a definite link to him in a census.
Any help tracing Mary's burial might help, alternatively any help tracing Jame's death/burial would be helpful (He was still living in 1912 when his son Thomas married in Stirling and was recorded as deceased when Thomas died in 1959 in Scoonie, Fife).
Best Regards,
Martin
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Martin
May be worth trying Stirling Archives again for Mary's burial. They do have records of burials from this era but I'm not sure if they would include burials in common plots.
Sandy