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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Fermanagh => Topic started by: bob.mac on Wednesday 15 January 14 01:22 GMT (UK)
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Have a marriage of James Slevin to Sarah Kirwan in Co.Fermanagh. Father of bride was John Kirwan and of groom Thomas Slevin. Witness to marriage were James Keown & Ellen McElroy. Addresses on MC is given as Carnamuala for James and Carluagh for Sarah.Not sure when marriage took place as cant find paper work, but first child born in 1913. Question is i cant find Sarah on 1901 census nor any Kirwan in 1911 census living in Fermanagh. Sarah aged 12 at 1901. James and Sarah had children , the first in 1913, address given on BC as Boghill. Remaining children at Stranafely and Lismalore.
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The marriage took place in November 1911 in Brookeborough RC Church.
I haven't seen the marriage certificate but I suspect that the address for James (Carnamuala) might be the townland of Cornamucklagh.
Turning to the subject of your query, I also suspect that Sarah's address (Carluagh) is actually the townland of Corlough. Assuming this, the following 1911 census record is a reasonable fit:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Brookeborough/Corlough/521822/
Edited to add: And the same family in the townland of Carrickpolin in the 1901 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Fermanagh/Grogey/Carrickpolin/1356643/
The detail here would point to a John Kirwin who married Mary Anne McGin in Brookeborough RC Church in June 1880.
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Thank you gaffy, much appreciated.
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Hi Bob! I think we should connect, I believe my great grandmother Mary Frances is Sarah's sister.
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Kerri,
When you have made another two posts you will be able to contact Bob using the personal message system. Just click on the little "page" beneath Bob's name.
Regards
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Thank you for that knowledge! It was very exciting to see Bob's info because the marriage details match for Sarah's parents and the Mary on the census he posted links quite closely for the birth info we have for my great grandmother.
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James Slevin and Sarah Kirwan are my Grandparents. I am the daughter of their
son Thomas. I have photographs of them all if anyone is interested.
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Hi Gaffy,
The 1911 census is definitely Sarah Kirwan's family, despite the incorrect spelling of the family name.
I know this for certain because I met many of her siblings (my father's aunts and uncles), including
Teresa, Thomas and Annie, all who emigrated to Glasgow, Scotland.
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Slev, did your grandmother or the siblings you met ever talk about their sibling Mary Frances (Minnie), who was on the 1901 census, but out of the house by 1911? She is my great grandmother.
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Hi Kerri,
Well, we used to visit an old lady in Fermanagh who my father called Auntie Minnie. I was very young and did not realise that she might be related to Auntie Annie, Tess and Uncle Tom, but it is very possible! She lived with a family, who seemed to be either her son and his wife, or her daughter and husband, and they had one son that I used to play with. This would have been in the early 60's which, going by the Census would put Minnie in her mid 70's. What were your parents and grandparent's names on Minnie's side of your family?
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My great grandmother came to Canada and married Robert Grant, a railroad man from County Down. Their only daughter was Mary Margaret, but she went by Jean. She married Leslie Holland and they had two daughters, Patricia and Barbara. Barbara is my mother.
My grandmother had told us there was a falling out of some sort between her mother and the family and she was put out of the house. But we unfortunately did not start asking about Minnie until my grandmother's health started to decline, so we don't have a lot of details.
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Unfortunately, not the same Minnie. The lady I met must have been on the Slevin side of the family. The only one of my Grandmother Sarah's siblings that I met who had children who would be still alive was Annie, and, as she was the baby of the family, she possibly never met Minnie and would not have known anything about her to pass on to her children.....
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Thank you. Do you have any information on their parents, John and Mary Ann?
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No, unfortunately, none. I never met my Grandmother Sarah, as she died before I was born.
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... The detail here would point to a John Kirwin who married Mary Anne McGin in Brookeborough RC Church in June 1880 ...
Correction to my previous post, birth details for John and Mary Anne Kirwan's children point to her maiden name being McGirr rather than McGin.
At the time of the 1880 marriage, John Kirwan lived in "Carricknapolin" (the townland of Carrickpolin in the civil parish of Aghalurcher), his father James was a farmer, Mary Anne McGirr lived in Corlough, the daughter of James McGirr, also a farmer. This is the marriage in the church register, in Aghavea RC parish, a dispensation was obtained and an Edward McGirr was one of the witnesses (right page, 4th entry down):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632784#page/34/mode/1up
This is a possibility for Mary Anne's parents in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Fermanagh/Brookeboro/Coreough/1355808/
Same folk in 1911: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Brookeborough/Tullynagowan/521903/
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Thanks! I have seen both before. That does appear to be a pretty good potential match for her family.
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Using Alice McGirr as a possible lead (born approx. 1867-1871 based on the 1901/1911 census returns) to work back to the parents of potential sister Mary Anne McGirr (who married John Kirwan), the closest I can find is one born on 13 October 1865 to farmer James McGirr and Mary Anne Fleming, the address was Corlough. There were also the following children born to a couple with these same names with the same Corlough address: unnamed in 1869; Susan in 1870; Teresa in 1874. I realise "Mary Anne" doesn't tally with the "Margaret" McGirr in the 1901 census return, so just for noting until this can be ruled in or out.
Edited to add: Also, a 27 year old Susan McGirr living in Corlough in 1899 (the same Susan born in 1870?) married a William McDonagh in Brookborough RC Church in that year, her father was a farmer called James McGirr and a Mary Kirwan was a witness. Looks like her in 1901 / 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Fermanagh/Deerpark/Lismalore/1356561/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Deerpark/Lismalore/522533/
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Hi Gaffy,
The 1911 census is definitely Sarah Kirwan's family, despite the incorrect spelling of the family name.
I know this for certain because I met many of her siblings (my father's aunts and uncles), including
Teresa, Thomas and Annie, all who emigrated to Glasgow, Scotland.
Sorry Slev, just realised that I hadn't acknowledged your post, thank you, I've tried to add my tuppenceworth on Sarah's mother's McGirr side :)
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Hi Slev, Gaffy.
My G/Grandfather was Patrick Slevin brother of James Slevin.
As far as i've been able to ascertain Patrick was the oldest ( b.1881 ). Then there was Allan (b.1883 ) , think he may have died early as cannot find any mention in census. James (b.1886) came next followed by Mary Jane (b.1888 ). The following were also siblings Thomas (b.1891 ), Joseph (b.1893), Margaret Anne (b.1894 ),Catherine (b.1896 ) & finally Francis (b.1901 ).
Parents of Patrick & James were Thomas Slevin & Mary Jane Meehan. Mary Jane Meehan died i believe before 1911 census & Thomas remarried in 1910 to Marianne ( Mary Ann) Halpin in 1910.
Patrick moved to Glasgow in 1900/1901 & up until now i assumed everyone else remained in Fermanagh.
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... As far as i've been able to ascertain Patrick was the oldest ( b.1881 ). Then there was Allan (b.1883 ) , think he may have died early as cannot find any mention in census. James (b.1886) came next followed by Mary Jane (b.1888 ). The following were also siblings Thomas (b.1891 ), Joseph (b.1893), Margaret Anne (b.1894 ),Catherine (b.1896 ) & finally Francis (b.1901 ).
Parents of Patrick & James were Thomas Slevin & Mary Jane Meehan. ...
GRONI lists the following births with father Slevin/mother Meehan (Enniskillen district):
Patrick 30 July 1881
ELLEN (female) 18 Sept.1883
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB4P-RMC
James 22 June 1886
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Thanks aghadowey.
Sure i got info off IFHF, must have been transcript error. Either that or i should have gone to speck savers. lol
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Hi aghadowey,
Have tried searching Ellen Slevin in 1901 census, but have had no luck finding her. Did though do a search for marriage & came across 2 possibles or 2 of same marriage at different time of year & different church. Is this possible ?
Both 1906. 1st in May to Thomas Gilroy age 22yrs & entered as Labourer. Living in Derryadd. Father : John Gilroy ( labourer ).
Ellen is entered as living in Breakey, Lisbellaw age 22yrs & Servant. Father :Thomas Slevin ( Labourer ) Lisnaskea registrars office.
2nd in August to Thomas Gilroy sage 22yrs & entered as Farmer. Living in Derryadd. Father : John Gilroy ( Farmer Decd )
Ellen is entered as living in Mulnadoran, No age given & occupation given as Lady. Father : Thomas Slevin ( Living )
Newtonbutler R.C. Chapel.
On checking 1901 census for Thomas, he is living with mother in Derryadd as a Agricultural labourer & Mother : Margaret age 74yrs is entered as not married.
Also in 1901 census Thomas Slevin ( Father ) was living in Mulnadoran.
On checking 1911 census Thomas & Ellen are found residing in Lisbellaw Town with 2 children.
However Thomas is aged 37 yrs & Ellen26 yrs, both been married 5 yrs. ( age could be an error ? )
Other coincidence 1st child named Maggie Jane ( 3yrs )..possibly after both grandmothers. 2nd child Cathleen ( 2mths ).
Is it possible both marriages are of the same ppl & what is the probability that Ellen is the Ellen i am looking for. Not sure how else to be certain this is her ? Any ideas or thoughts ?
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Where did you get the 2 marriage records from? The actual certificates, church records or transcriptions?
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Hi Aaghadowey,
IFHF.
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Hi aghadowey,
transcriptions.
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GRONI show the marriage in their index as 16 May 1906- Thomas Gilroy & Ellen Slavin
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What of the August marriage ? There is a lot of similarities between both with the exception of witnesses & place of marriage.
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According to what you've posted the 1st wedding was registry office and 2nd a church ceremony so it might be that the 2nd one will only be found in church records.
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Good point.
Thanks.