RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: stevehyland on Wednesday 15 January 14 01:26 GMT (UK)
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My grandmother was born "illegitimately" in Belper in 1908.
Is it likely to be possible to track down a father's name?
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Sometimes yes, often no ...
Do you have her birth certificate? Presumably no father is named?
If she was baptised do you have the church record of this? May name 'reputed' father.
Did her mother marry and have more children? This man may have been father of your grandmother and any subsequent children. Difficult to prove though.
Does she have any middle names which may give a clue to who her father was?
DNA testing can sometimes be used to narrow down likely parentage. Complicated and not foolproof.
Of course, something to consider is that there would also be cases where even the mother may not know who the father of her baby is ....
Just a few thoughts - others with more experience on the subject may be able to assist further.
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Thanks for your quick response. I thought it might be difficult if not impossible...frustrating.
Father is not named in b/c, and no record of ch baptism (although there may have been one).
Mother married a year later and had two children who took their father's name. My g/mother's surname remained unchanged as her mother's maiden name. No middle names.
Rgds
Steve
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If mother married only a year later her husband may well be the father. Sometimes surnames changed, sometimes not, and sometimes both birth surname and 'adopted' surnames were used interchangeably.
Are you in touch with descendants of your grandmother's 'siblings'? I am wondering if DNA testing may be feasible in this case. You could always explain the scenario and ask the question on the DNA board:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=432.0
Are there any elderly relatives you can ask who may have heard talk in the family of her father's identity?
Are there any clues in her place of birth? Was she born at home or in a mother's home or some such place which may hold records?
Sorry I can't think of anything else to suggest.
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Thanks for that...I'll give it some thought.
Steve
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Just a thought ;) If you can somehow find out if they lived at the same address at the time of birth.
Also have you checked the 1911 census? Not sure if that would help any or not but maybae the first child might be noted as his child or a step child. Just another thought ;D
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Who registered the birth?
I have 3 certs all illegitimate all the same mother and the same man registered all the births.
Turns out due to a will she couldn't remarry. Some of the death certs of the children name the person who registered the birth as the father.
Just food for thought.
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Doesn't appear to have been mentioned so far but does she name her natural father on a marriage certificate? Supposing, of course, she subsequently married.
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Thanks to all for taking the time to respond to my question.
I'm reluctant to go down the DNA path, because it's (in my view at least, and for various reasons) unlikely that her "stepfather" was her biological father. Thus I'd be paying a fair bit of money to probably prove the negative, even if I could identify his relatives and convince them to collaborate with me from 13 000 miles away.
In relation to my grandmother's marriage certificate, that's an interesting issue. She travelled to Australia by ship alone aged 16-17. She married my grandfather who was about 13 years older about 5 years later. In the circumstances, it was unsurprising that she had a false name for her father and a false (older) age on her marriage certificate. That made even tracking her down difficult.
Again, many thanks to you all.
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What father's name did she give on her marriage certificate? You say she gave a false name? How sure are you that this is the case?
Do you have her immigration record? Often groups of males/females went to Australia to fill labouring or other positions, and sometimes a huge number were destined for the cane fields or wherever there was a need.
Might your grandmother have been part of such a group? Do you know if she was employed upon her arrival?
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On her marriage certificate, she used a misspelling of her stepfather's first name and her own surname (ie, not her stepfather's).
I have her immigration record. She came alone - remarkable for a 17 year old! (Her half-sister (by her mother and stepfather) followed two years later.) Her intended work listed in the immigration document was "domestic", but I'm not sure she had work planned or whether she was enticed by Australian advertising for workers in the UK.
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um, the misspelling of the names on her marriage certificate may not have been something she intentionally did to deceive, but was probably just what was written by the church official - (ie. their interpretation of what she said) - doubtful it would have been checked or spelled out by your grandmother.
I thought that if she had travelled with a group, there may have been records taken either in England or upon arrival in Australia ... :-\
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Perhaps you're right about her seeking to mislead, but I don't think so.
I keep in mind that this was the 1920s, and illegitimacy was considered very differently to what it is today. Creating a fictitious father's name avoided all sorts of questions and potential social stigma....and who was to know? There was no ability to check in those days.
I might add that she also added three years to her age (probably to bring her a little closer to my grandfather's age). In for a penny; in for a pound.....and again, there was no ability to check.
I have a photocopy of the original ship's manifest. It lists her as a single woman, travelling to Adelaide with a number of other young people (in their 20s) from the UK. I can find no names or addresses that might indicate any sort of relationship - even friendship because they come from different cities in the UK.
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Sorry Steve, I did not mean that she didn't fabricate a father's name for her marriage (I know this was not unusual), but I was only referring to the "misspellings' being unintentional. Apologies that I did not make this clearer.
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No need to apologise. I read your message as a helpful contribution to an exploration of possibilities - and I apologise if my response seemed a bit "direct" (blunt?). It wasn't meant to be anything other than my own mulling over the pros and cons of your ideas.
Take it as read: I very much appreciate all the feedback I've had on this issue. It may not have given me a definitive answer, but it ensures that no rock has been left unturned.
Steve
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Not at all blunt Steve. :)
It is very frustrating to have dead ends, especially related to illegitimacy and (almost) within living memory.