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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: Dougs123 on Saturday 18 January 14 20:28 GMT (UK)
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Duncan Sinclair Darroch was born 31 Jan 1874 in the farm steading called Kilian or St. Johns 4 miles west of Inveraray. His mother is given as Mary Darroch. Father is not listed. Mary Darroch is listed at French Farland as a servant with her birth place as Inveraray.
Duncan became Duncan Campbell, does anyone know if he was adopted.
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Hi there and welcome to Rootschat
Have you looked for Duncan aged approx 6 or 7 on the 1881 Census. This should tell you who he was living with at that time.
I don't think there was any kind of formal adoption at this period. Babies would be raised by others (relatives, friends, neighbours) without any legal paperwork.
When did Duncan change his name to Campbell? Campbell could be his natural father's surname. Not unusual for children born out of wedlock to use and be known by their father's name although it wasn't on the birth cert.
Equally his mother could have married a Mr Campbell and Duncan may have taken his stepdad's name. :)
Finding him on the 1881 and 1891 Censuses would be a good start :)
Looby :)
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Thanks, I can not find Duncan on 1881, 1891 census but I got him as Duncan Campbell on.1901 in Renfrew. He later married jean mcneill . On his marriage he lists his father as Archibald Campbell, however if he was given the middle name of Sinclair I would have thought the father would also be a Sinclair.
I have spent weeks trying to find Duncan on 1881, and 1891 census, trying various surnames Campbell, Darroch andSinclair with no luck.
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Hi again,
There is a boy of the name Duncan Campbell approx.year of birth 1874 at Urquhart Invernesshire . This boy is born in Argyllshire https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KM66-MP1
Maybe you've ruled him out already. I don't have access to the original Census, but I think he may be with a family of Campbells :-\
The middle name Sinclair could be a nod to his natural father's surname but the Scots were very keen on calling their children after grandparents, so Sinclair could be a family name from Mary Darroch's side.
Have you found Mary with her family on earlier Censuses? What are their names (if you have)? Quite often grandparents reared their illegitimate grandchildren .
Looby :) :)
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This could be a longshot but ....trial and error on a free search on Scotlands People has led to me finding a marriage of a Mary Darroch to a Hugh Dawson at Inveraray in 1878.
There is a Mary Dawson on the 1881 Census at Lochgilphead, Argyll https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KMKG-RBX
there is also a Duncan Dawson https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KMKG-RBF
Could this be your boy using his stepfather's surname??
Looby :)
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Looby, just filling in with what you found from 1881:
Hugh Dawson 33 fisherman, b. Ardrishaig, Argyll
Mary Dawson 31 b. Kilean G, Argyll
Duncan Dawson 6 b. Kilean G, Argyll
John McNeil 16 nephew b. Glasgow
Hugh Dawson 63 father, formerly fisherman b. Lochgilphd G, Argyll
Maria Dawson 60 mother b. Kilbrandon G, Argyll
Address: Thomsons Land 4th Floor, Lochgilphead, South Knapdale
Good find I think for a possible marriage for Duncan's mother very likely ;)
Monica
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Yes that's looking quite positive for Duncan (born Darroch) living with his mother and stepfather in 1881. :)
Could be that Duncan's natural father was an Archibald Campbell and that for some reason he decided at some point in his life to revert to using his surname. Proving his parentage would not be easy. Kirk Session records perhaps??
Think I've found Mary Darroch/Dawson's death in 1923 in Lochgilphead aged 78. That would give Dougs123 her parents names - I've a suspicion her father was a Duncan Darroch hence her son's first name. Still haven't fathomed out where the Sinclair came from ;D
Looby :)
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That should all help Looby :)
1891, and there are some possibilities for Duncan such as:
Duncan Campell, 17, farm servant b. Inverary at Dalchenna Farm.
Monica
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Please confirn , Killian G. Is Killian Glasary. If so, I do not now how you found this but this is fantastic.So
Duncan Sinclair Darroch > Duncan Dawson > Duncan Campbell
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Regarding of illegitimate children, is it correct to say that if the child was accepted by the father then the surname of the child would be the same as the fathers, unless the father of the child was already married elsewhere and in this case only the middle name would be that of the father.
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Hi Dougs 123,
I have no idea if that G stands for Glassary. Maybe Monica will know.
I found the marriage of Mary Darroch on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, using my Miss Marple skills ;D
I just keyed her name into the search and looked for a marriage in Argyll between the years of Duncan's birth and the next Census. When I got a hit I started going through the alphabet looking for a natch to the groom's name. Sounds really time consuming ::) but to be honest it didn't take me long.
Then I searched on FamilySearch for Mary Dawson in Argyll on 1881. Then I looked for a Duncan Dawson, making the assumption that Duncan Darroch took his stepfather's name when the couple married. Maybe Duncan never liked this arrangement :D. Because from the info found by Monica it looks like he changed by 1891 to Campbell and you yourself have proof of that with the 1901 and his marriage.
It wasn't unusual for illegitimate children at the time to be known by their father's surname even though it was not on the birth certificate. So Campbell may well have been Duncan's biological father's name and Archibald could well have been his first name. Then again it may have been a name Duncan made up to look "respectable" when he married. Did he call a son Archibald?
Do you have Duncan's death cert? Does that give parents names (although of course that info is only as good as the knowledge of the person who provided it)?
But to conclude ...yes I think Duncan Darroch became Duncan Dawson became Duncan Campbell.
Maybe Mary's death in 1923 would be worth looking at, see who registered it and it will give you her parents names.
Looby :)
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Regarding of illegitimate children, is it correct to say that if the child was accepted by the father then the surname of the child would be the same as the fathers, unless the father of the child was already married elsewhere and in this case only the middle name would be that of the father.
Sorry our last posts clashed.
A father's name could only be recorded on a birth certificate of an illegitimate child if he was present at the registration, I believe. But often children were known and called by their fathers' names if he accepted them or if their father's name was common knowledge in their community- and that can cause confusion on Census searches!
I don't know that the applies to married men who fathered a baby with an unwed girl :-\ And I'm not sure about the middle name being the father's in that case. I tend to find that middle names are grandparents names/ other relatives name/ even the minister's name (in the case of the devout :)). Maybe someone else will know the answer to that one.
Certainly the name Sinclair must have meant something to Mary Darroch for her to use it.
Looby :)
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Jean McNeill's mother was Mary Dawson ?
Duncan Campbell and Jean McNeill"s 5 children were
Neill, Ian Douglas, Mrytle Helen, Jean (Sheena}, Margaret.
I am descended from Ian Douglas Campbell, hence my name Douglas
Duncan became a mechanical engineer specialising in electrical motors for ship building at Clydebank.
I never found Duncan's death, it was too complicated to find, was I looking for a Darroch, Campbell, Sinclair, and now a Dawson? It would be for the registra to determine.
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Sounds like you are making lots of headway now with Looby's help :)
Sometimes to try and find a married man's death, it can help to look for the wife's first as married women's deaths are registered in Scotland under both their maiden and married surnames, which helps when narrowing down options.
Have you considered looking at the marriage cert for Mary Darroch and Hugh Dawson to see what shows for her parents details? Will give you something to compare also with that death that Looby has mentioned as a good possibilitity for Mary Darroch/Dawson.
Who were the witnesses to Duncan and Jean's marriage?
Monica
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Witnesses on marriage were
Allan McGregor
And
???? Livingston
The father on marriage is Archibald Campbell quarrier
Mother Mary Campbell, ms Darroch.
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So, the names don't necessarily connect as yet to the names you are so far seeing.
Have you been able as yet to confirm Mary Darroch's parents yet?
Monica
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Hi Dougs123,
Mary Dawson was Duncan Sinclair Darroch/ Campbell's mother, I believe.
You should have Jean McNeill's parents names on her marriage cert to Duncan.
Duncan Campbell on marriage has given his father's name as Archibald Campbell (quarrier).This could be correct but equally it could be fictional name made up to give him respectability i.e a legal father. Duncan would not have been the first or the last to do that :)
Also giving his mother's name as Mary Campbell ms Darroch. Either the registrar presumed that his parents were married and erroneously made Mary a Campbell or Duncan was economical with the truth again or maybe Mary and Archibald Campbell did marry and we haven't found the record yet.
As Monica recommends look at Mary Darroch and Hugh Dawson's marriage record and see if Mary was a widow or spinister.
Looby
Post amended as I'd gave Duncan the wrong forename earlier. Ooops!
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I'll do a search later today after I've checked the info I've already got on archive. Looby has opened up this problem, I'll check Mary Darroch/Dawson's death on Scotlandspeople.
I have a birth on archive of Mary Darroch born 1841 to Daniel Darroch and Ann Altridge, I am now in a position I can prove or disprove this. Many many thanks.
Regarding what Duncan changed his name to Campbell, I now believe again that Duncan knew who his father was as he refers to him as a quarrier, I just need to track down the correct Archibald Campbell, and find out what the Sinclair connection was. I know the Campbell's of Auchendrain were married into the Sinclairs, but which ones?
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Found this entry for Mary Darroch in 1861 I think. It is the mention of the farm where Duncan is born in 1874 that also connects well:
Archibald Cameron 79 crofter
Dugald Cameron 41
Catherine Mckenzie 37
Donald Cameron 11
Malcolm Mckenzie 1
Kenneth Mckenzie 3 Months
Duncan Mckenzie 37
Mary Darroch 15, domestic servant b. Inveraray, Argyllshire
Address: French Farlane, Inveraray
I will try and find her in 1871...
Monica
Added: 1871: A Mary Daroch, 25, general servant b. Inveray working at Crogan Farm in Skipness with the Thomson family. Back at French Farlane, the Camerons and McKenzies still show there.
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:-\ Can't make this 1891 census entry out...any thoughts?!
Hugh Dawson 44 fisherman b. Ardrishaig, Argyllshire
Mary Dawson 38 wife, farm servant b. Inveraray, Argyllshire
Duncan Sinclair 8 Under Guardianship b. Southall, Argyllshire
Robert Dawson 4 Under Guardianship b. Ardrishaig, Argyllshire
Address: 52 Lochnell St, Lochgilphead
These transcripts should certainly be checked against the original image on SP.
Monica
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And following that, from 1901:
Hugh Dawson 53 Fisherman (herring), b. Ardrishaig, Argyllshire
Mary Dawson 49 b. inverary, Argyllshire
Christina McDonald 73 mother in law, b. inverary, Argyllshire
Duncan Sinclair 18 adopted son, Fisherman (herring), born Colintraive, Argyllshire (SP have this birth I think registered in the parish of Inverchaolain).
Robert Dawson 14 Adopted Son b. b. Ardrishaig, Argyllshire
Address: 23 Union Street, Lochgilphead
Monica
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Back again :)
So this boy Duncan Sinclair aged 8 in 1891 is not the same boy as Duncan Dawson aged 6 in 1881.
Dougs123 has his/her Duncan Campbell in Renfrew in 1901 and at some date (I can't see :-\) marrying Jean McNeill. This can't be the same person as Duncan Sinclair aged 18 adopted son of Mary and Hugh Dawson on the 1901 Census.
My this is a bit of a mystery,
Looby :)
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Had a read back through the thread to refresh my memory.
To sum up so far-
Duncan Sinclair Darroch is born 31 Jan 1874 to Mary Darroch - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYBJ-95P
A Mary Darroch marries a Hugh Dawson at Inverary 1878 (still to be confirmed on Scot People).
1881 Census -A Mary Dawson and Hugh Dawson are living at Lochgilphead with a 6 year old Duncan Dawson (son, but obviously born before above marriage)
1891 Census -Mary Dawson and Hugh Dawson are still in Lochgilphead with 2 boys Duncan Sinclair aged 8 and Robert Dawson aged 4. The boys are recorded as Under Guardianship.
1901 Census- Mary Dawson and Hugh Dawson at Lochgilphead with 2 adopted sons names as above aged 18 and 14.
1891- Census- A 17 year old Duncan Campbell is a farm servant at Dalchenna Farm
and per Dougs123 info-
1901 Census - Duncan Campbell at Renfrew
He marries Jean McNeill and gives his parents as Archibald Campbell (quarrier) and Mary Campbell maiden name Darroch.
We don't have the date or location of that marriage Dougs123. Could you post it please. :)
Just posted this to group info together,
Looby :)
Amended Census date as per Monica's next post
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Great summary Looby ;D Gets confusing for sure with all the boys we are seeing!
Dougs' Duncan in 1901 here:
Duncan Campbell 26 Electrical Engrs Labourer b. Killcan, argyleshire
Jeanie Campbell 30 b. Glasgow
Myrtle H Campbell 3 b. Glasgow
Mary D Campbell 1 b. C'bank, dumbtnsh
Kenneth Macdonald 40 boarder, house joiner b. Gairloch, rossshire
Address: 3, Bruce St, Clydebank
Monica
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Duncan Campbell marries Jean McNeill, 1st Jan 1899 @ Greenock
Killcan is wrongly transcribed, it should be Killian, however on 1911 birthplace is Inveraray. That's how I found Duncan Sinclair Darroch's birth cert.
Just to clarify, I was missing Duncan on both 1881 and 1891 census, I was calling it the missing years. I do not know what happened between Duncan being born in Killian and getting married in 1899
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Just to clarify, I was missing Duncan on both 1881 and 1891 census, I was calling it the missing years. I do not know what happened between Duncan being born in Killian and getting married in 1899
Hopefully a lot of possibilities in the posts above for you to follow up on regarding the missing years...You will probably have to dip in to SP now for further details, or a visit to one of the main genealogy centres to let you view the same material.
Monica
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It's a little bit intriguing that Mary Darroch has a son Duncan Sinclair Darroch. And the Mary Dawson (nee Darroch) adopts a boy called Duncan Sinclair a few years later.
Hope you get to the bottom of the mystery Dougs123.
Keep us informed...good luck,
Looby :)
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I am very greatful for all the help
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Is it a possibility
Mary Darroch born about 1846 at Killian nr Inveraray, her mother is Christina McDonald.
Mary Darroch age 15 living at French Farland as servant, according to 1861 census.
Mary Darroch living Crogan Farm in Skipness on 1871 census.
Duncan Sinclair Darroch born 1874 @ Killian, mother Mary Darroch would be 29.
Afterwards Mary Darroch marries Hugh Dawson and move to Lochgilphead with Duncan, now called Duncan Dawson on 1881 census aged 6.
The natural father Archibald Campbell quarrier is unhappy with this arrangement and takes his son back to Inveraray. Duncan is brought up as a Campbell somewhere near Inveraray. He shows as labourer at Dalchenna Farm Inveraray 1891 census aged 17.
Duncan Campbell marries Jean McNeill, 1st Jan 1899 @ Greenock and shows on 1901 at census at Clydebank.
1901 Census- Mary Dawson and Hugh Dawson at Lochgilphead, adopt other children to replace Duncan
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What age is Mary Darroch on her marriage to Hugh Dawson?
That date of birth 1846 roughly corresponds with the age of Mary Dawson (age 78) at time of the death I found in 1923 at Lochgilphead.
I don't know about Archibald Campbell popping up and removing Duncan from Mary. As his mother and only registered parent even in those times I don't know if he could. I would think it more likely that Duncan lived with mum until a teenager 13/14? when it was common to start work. And naturally in that area many young people ended up in employment on farms which meant them staying at the farm location. My own g-g grandmother was a dairy maid in her teens living on a farm 15 miles from home in rural Ayrshire around the same era.
But then again who knows?? Anything is possible :)
Looby :)
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Looby, I would be more keen on your second approach really. No reason so far to think that Archibald Campbell, if his details are correct, had anything to do with young Duncan in later years really. There are a couple of possibilities in Argyll in the right age range for an Archibald Campbell, quarrier, although from what we have so far, not sure how we can move that further for now...
Breathing in here....think we cannot move on much more without the details from the marriage for a Mary Darroch to Hugh Dawson.
Monica
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Just got death cert for Mary Dawson, 23rd Jan 1923 district of Lochgilphead
Mary Dawson, widow of Hugh Dawson, fisherman
Paterson Street, Lochgilphead
Father Neil Darroch, mariner
Mother Christina Sinclair, afterwards McDonald, both deceased
Duncan Sinclair, cousin, present
???
Birth cert
Duncan Sinclair Darroch, illegitimate
Born 31st Jan 1874, Killean near Inveraray,
Mother, Mary Darroch, Home maid Domestic
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Hi Dougs 123,
Was just reading back through the thread to refresh my memory.
I am so pleased that your certificates have cleared up Duncan Darroch's maternal line.
Mary Darroch/ Dawson was his mother :D
Looby
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If Mary's death entry is to be believed, she had a cousin Duncan Sinclair who was present at her death (and registered it?).
Her mother's maiden name was Sinclair which solves the mystery of where Duncan Darroch/Dawson/ Campbell 's middle name came from.
Christina Sinclair must have been widowed . Neil Darroch's death could well be after 1855 so the certificate could be on SP.
Then she became a Christina McDonald- a second marriage?- https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTKX-PMC
She is showing on the 1901 Census entry posted by Monica -
Christina McDonald age 73 Mother-in-law born Inverary, Argyll
Looby
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Death cert for Christina MacDonald widow of John MacDonald farm servant
12th Dec 1904, Lochgilphead, age 80
Father John Sinclair
Mother Isabella Sinclair, ms Clark, both deceased
Mary Dawson daughter present
Is Kenneth MacDonald border on census a descendent of John MacDonald and Christina?
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Kenneth MacDonald the boarder on the Census has given his place of birth as Gairloch, Ross-shire and his age if accurate means he was born circa 1861.
John MacDonald and Christina Sinclair marry in Kilmartin Argyll in 1866.
Although not impossible, I don't think he is descended from them. I think it is just co-incidence that a man with this surname is lodging with Duncan Campbell and family although I suppose he could be distantly related .
I found this birth in Gairloch which could be him https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQXC-5VV.
If you wanted to find out if there was a connection you would have to check out John MacDonald's ancestry.
Looby :)
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The biggest issue remains who is the father of Duncan.
Am I correct the only way to find this is through parish records? If so which church, where are the records kept.
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Hi Dougs123,
Unfortunately that is a question you may never resolve satisfactorily :-\
Duncan's birth certificate has no father listed. The name you have is from his marriage certificate (and he could have made that up, many people did to make them look "respectable" , or he could have the wrong information, or he could be right :) ).
Surviving Scottish Kirk Sessions Records are not available to search online. They can be searched on computer at the National Archives - www.nas.gov.uk/about/101101.asp Information can be found on this link, although at the moment the website is having problems and is down! Certain Scotlands People Centres around Scotland also have access, I believe, to the Kirk Session Records. There might be something relating to Mary Darroch in them - maybe Parish of Inverary.
I'm not from Argyll, so I'm not sure what Church I'm afraid.
Same applies to christening records. There could be a record at the Parish church. But again like his birth certificate his father might not be named.
Good luck with your research,
Looby :)
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What's the saying, don't dig to deep?
Jane MacNeils parents were Dugald MacNeil and Mary Dawson. There maybe more but I have they had 3 children John MacNeil born 1864, Helen, and Jane at Milton, Glasgow.
On the census provided by Monica there is a John MacNeil nephew born 1865 in Glasgow. I seems likely that Jane's mother Mary Dawson was the sister to Hugh Dawson, Duncan's adopted father, making them legally first cousins. They however no blood relation, and truly step cousins, but this may have caused some issue if true.
However I still believe Duncan knew his father to be Archibald Campbell, he moved back to Inverary and established his name as Duncan Campbell, it would not have been accepted in this small community for this not to be true. Duncan could have easily just accepted Dawson as his surname if he wanted to appear ligitimate, he choose a more risky approach and changed his name again to Campbell, his father must have accepted him for this to happen. I even think the community near Killean knew what happened and may have persueded him to change his name.
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Hi again,
That's interesting that you think Duncan was related (step cousin) to his wife Jean McNeil . You could prove that if you found both Hugh Dawson and Mary Dawson's (Jean's mum) death certificate or marriage certs. I suppose in small communities, marriages to fairly close relatives would be fairly common.
Re Duncan's name change to Campbell and his reputed father Archibald Campbell, I think you have to look at what you know. Here I go, sounding like a party pooper ::) Sorry! ::)
Duncan was born to an unwed Mary Darroch - no father is listed on his birth cert. His father's name would have been recorded on the certificate if he had been present at the time of registration.
It is true that children could be known by their father's surname when the identity of the father was well known. But so far you don't know that this happened with Duncan.
Duncan is next recorded with his step father's name Dawson on 1881 Census.
By 1891 he is working away from home (not unusual at 17/18) as a Farm Labourer in Inverary as Duncan Campbell. Then he marries as Duncan Campbell in 1899 naming Archibald Campbell , quarrier as his father and his mother as Mary Campbell m.s. Darroch - this was not completely true as Mary was never married to Duncan's father.
He then continues to use the name Campbell.You are right to say that Duncan may have known who his father was and that he was an Archibald Campbell. He may have personally known him or he may never have met him. There is no proof either way.
Duncan may have always been known as Campbell and the family recorded him as Dawson on the Census just to keep the names all the same. But I'm guessing!
I could guess at other reasons he changed his name from Dawson to Campbell ( a family fall out :-\, to differentiate between himself and his younger adopted brother Duncan Sinclair Dawson :-\). You will probably never know unfortunately , likewise you don't know his father accepted him in adulthood. And it's doubtful people in the community of Kilean would've persuaded Duncan to change his name - then again we'll never know :)
Tracing and identifying Archibald Campbell will not be easy, as mentioned earlier Kirk Session Minutes could help and you would be best to look at the 1871 Census for Archibald's in the area.
Lastly I am still intrigued that Mary and Hugh Dawson adopted a Duncan Sinclair (as well as a Robert Dawson). Monica in reply 20 said that this Duncan's birth is on SP. Wonder who his parents were?? Another can of worms perhaps ;D.
Looby :)