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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: cricket2 on Saturday 25 January 14 23:54 GMT (UK)

Title: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: cricket2 on Saturday 25 January 14 23:54 GMT (UK)
HI All

I am doing so research into the middlesex regiment around 1896
to help a history group which I am a member
have found this and need a bit of help please
the times newspaper February 8Th 1900 births
Ross on 3rd Feb at Roslyn cottage newcastle co down the
wife of captain r.j. Ross 1st middlesex regiment a daughter
have found a piece on this
1896 the adjutant is a captain Robert James Ross
was a member of the 1st battalion staff of the "die hards" 1896
the regiment has just left England for s.a. would any one
know how to find more about capt Robert James Ross
I do not know where to start any advice would be great
then I can find out more information
can I just say this in nothing to do with my family
but its a piece to go in local history newsletter
john
ps just been sent this is this mrs ross?
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Sunday 26 January 14 05:31 GMT (UK)
John, I can tell you that Sylvia Mary Elsie Ross died September 1976, Surrey S.W registration district, so she didn't marry.
This request might be better off on the military board as they might be able to help you with his military records  :)

Jane
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: cricket2 on Sunday 26 January 14 09:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Jane

Thanks for your help and advice could somebody please move this to
a military board
john
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: km1971 on Sunday 26 January 14 13:30 GMT (UK)
Hi John

This is his first commission - http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/25619/pages/4132

= Seconded to India Staff Corps - http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/26031/pages/1329

= Made Adjutant of the Middlesex Regiment - http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/26544/pages/4867

= Promoted Captain - http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/26654/pages/4729

= Seconded for service on the Staff - http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27129/pages/6386

Regiments had two Regular battalions. On active service 3-4 battalions were formed into Brigades; 3-4 Brigades were formed into Divisions, Divisions into Corps and Corps into Armies. Brigades, divisions, corps and armies each a number of staff officers under the direct control of the unit commander.

He was awarded the Queens South Africa Medal on the medal roll of the 2nd Battalion of the Middlesex. He was at the battles of Belmont and Modder River, which you can google. In the remarks he says he also served with the South Africa Constabulary. On their medal roll he says he resigned from the SAC 12 December 1901. In the SAC (E Division) he held the local rank of Major.

He re-joined the Middlesex Regiment in 1902.

Hope that helps.

Ken

Added.. the 'staff' mentioned in the LG will not be the '1st battalion staff' from your article. Battalion staff comprised the Lt Colonel, the Adjutant, RSM and a few rank and file. Movements in and out of battalion staff were not posted on the LG. apart from the medical officer or chaplain.





Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: cricket2 on Sunday 26 January 14 14:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Km1971

Thanks so much for all your detailed help it is great
thanks for your time it just great ;D ;D ;D
if you do know anthing about his family life
it would be very helpfull but once again
thanks
regards john
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: km1971 on Sunday 26 January 14 15:27 GMT (UK)
Hi John

His DoB was 10 August 1865. Promoted Major February 1904. He served in 'S. China' from August 1904 to August 1908 - more Staff appointments. His family would have gone with him, so there may be children born out there.

Ken
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Monday 27 January 14 07:32 GMT (UK)
John, found his death & obituary in the Times, 28/12/1943,

25 December 1943 at Guildford.
Brigadier General Robert James Ross, C.B., C.M.G., late of the 57th, Middlesex regiment, formerly of Newcastle, county Down.  Funeral Shalford Parish church, Thursday December 30, 11am.

Obituary

Brigadier General Robert James Ross., C.B., C.M.G., entered the army in 1886 & served with distinction in the South African war & the last war, retiring in 1922.

Jane
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Monday 27 January 14 07:45 GMT (UK)
Probate records,

Robert James Ross of Friars Court Tilehouse road, Guildford died 25/12/1943.  Probate Llandudno 1 May to Frances Cecilia Caroline Ross, Widow.  Effects 172 pounds 2 shillings & 6 pence.

Now we have his wife's name & a hint that he might have been from Newcastle Co. Down!

Jane
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Monday 27 January 14 08:09 GMT (UK)
Probate records.

Frances Cecilia Caroline Ross of Friars Court Tilehouse road Pilgrims Way, Guildford, widow died 19/11/1955.  Probate London to Ralph Francis Patrick Ross member of the stock exchange & Sylvia Mary Elsie Ross, spinster.  Effects 2821 pounds 3 shillings & 1d.

Her death registration gives her a dob of 1866.  Another possible child with the mention of Ralph?

Jane
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Monday 27 January 14 08:24 GMT (UK)
There is a birth reg. for Ralph Francis P Ross Q3, 1903 Farnham but no sighting of him in 1911,

Jane
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Monday 27 January 14 15:47 GMT (UK)
From http://www.thepeerage.com/index.htm
Robert James Ross was the son of Lt-Col R. H. Ross.  He married Frances Cecilia Caroline KNOX, 7/7/1892 (doesn't say where  >:()  Frances C.C. Knox was the daughter of Vesey Edmund Knox & Margaret Clarissa Garrett,

Jane

Just found the marriage - Q3 1892, Downpatrick.  Vol 1 page 607
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: cricket2 on Monday 27 January 14 16:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Jane

Many Many Thanks great news you mention the name Garrett well in a big family  photo
it gives surnames eg Clay/Knox/Garrett/Leigh/Austin/Hobson/Crawley/Melville
so some where along the line I think they are linked Garrett fits in with the marriage
very nicely
john
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Monday 27 January 14 16:53 GMT (UK)
Just found the birth of Frances C.C. Knox.  Born 17/8/1866, Kilkeel, Down, Ireland.
So, I would imagine Robert James was born somewhere in county Down as well...still looking & for his father, R. H. Ross  :)

Jane
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: cricket2 on Tuesday 28 January 14 14:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Jane

Have found his and her gravestone

Brigadier General Robert James Ross C.B C.M.C. Died on Christmas Day 1943
Aged 79 Years
Frances Cecilia Caroline Ross Died 25Th Nov 1955 Aged 89 Years
Both Of Newcastle Co Down Ireland
John
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Tuesday 28 January 14 17:14 GMT (UK)
Well done John  :)
It would seem that both the Ross & Knox family's had Anglo-Irish heritage with a long tradition within the British Army!  I'm also wondering if there was a family tie with Brigadier General Robert Ross who burnt down the White House in 1812  :-\
Do you have all you need now for your article?
Jane
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: cricket2 on Tuesday 28 January 14 18:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Jane

Thanks for all your help
have found photo,s of Frances Cecilia Caroline Ross (Knox)
photo of gravestone of Frances/Robert looking for where they lived
ref your last post any help with that or any piece I can search for
would be a great help still no luck with photo of Robert James Ross
john
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Wednesday 29 January 14 10:04 GMT (UK)
When you say, 'where they lived' are you refering to Roslyn Cottage in Newcastle Co. Down or Friars Croft in Guildford?
You might find some links to help in Genuki Ireland http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/DOW/index.html

As for pictures of Robert James, I checked online at the National Portrait Gallery & they don't have anything on their index but it might be worthwhile contacting them.  Otherwise it would be a case of contacting a direct relative who might have some family pictures.  We only know of the son, Ralph Francis Patrick, so you need to find his children/grandchildren.  Try contacting his regiment, they might have something or the National Army Museum in Chelsea,

Jane

Jane
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: cricket2 on Friday 07 March 14 14:22 GMT (UK)
Hi All

Still trying to see if I can find any link to Robert Ross to Robert James Ross/Robert hill Ross
this is what I have found to add to this post
Robert Ross married Dec 2nd 1802 Catherhine Elizabeth Glascock she died in 1845
parish of St George Hanover Sq Westminster
they had several children some died in infancy but 2 Sons 1Dau survived
would anyone be able to help with finding the children please or any other
information on the family
thanks john
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Jane Masri on Friday 07 March 14 16:57 GMT (UK)
The register entry for the marriage gives her name as Elizabeth Catherine Glasscock & it was on 9/12/1802.
'The Peerage' gives the following information;
General Robert Ross s/o Major David Ross & Elizabeth F. Adderley.

Children of Robert & Elizabeth Catherine,
Andrew - born Rosstrevor (but no DOB) died 1822
Robert - born 1788 Rosstrevor (but that can't be right as they married in 1802)
David - born 1804 died 1866
Elizabeth born 3/5/1811 Bladensburg, USA, died 27/4/1827, Tuscany, Italy.

Jane
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: cricket2 on Friday 07 March 14 18:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Jane

Thanks for information great getting close ?
Found this do not know if you could add any other information on children
Andrew Ross 1766-1822 married Hannah Templin 1770-1819 had these children?
rebekah,w. templin Ross, Eliza Ross, Caroline Ross, Mary Ann Ross,1794-1877 Robert Ross,1795-1840
 Matilda e. Ross,
Robert James Ross, Robert James  Ross,1807-1861
could one of the children be the link rostrevor in county down keeps me thinking I could be close
have tryed to find a list of Ross which were born in rostrevor say from 1750 onwards
to give me a chance to find the missing link to my man Robert Hill Ross then to Robert James Ross
john
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Csharp on Wednesday 03 November 21 14:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Jane

Thanks for information great getting close ?
Found this do not know if you could add any other information on children
Andrew Ross 1766-1822 married Hannah Templin 1770-1819 had these children?
rebekah,w. templin Ross, Eliza Ross, Caroline Ross, Mary Ann Ross,1794-1877 Robert Ross,1795-1840
 Matilda e. Ross,
Robert James Ross, Robert James  Ross,1807-1861
could one of the children be the link rostrevor in county down keeps me thinking I could be close
have tryed to find a list of Ross which were born in rostrevor say from 1750 onwards
to give me a chance to find the missing link to my man Robert Hill Ross then to Robert James Ross
john
I think I may have more information on Ross family
Celeste
Title: Re: family birth in the london times newspaper
Post by: Csharp on Wednesday 03 November 21 17:52 GMT (UK)
I think I have more information on the Ross family