RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Oxfordshire => England => Oxfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: annevicary on Sunday 26 January 14 03:13 GMT (UK)
-
I am looking for the birth record of my great great grandmother Lucy Mary Ann Bidmead born abt 1855 in Banbury Oxfordshire. The first record I have of her is the birth certificate of her illegitimate daughter Catherine Eleanor Bidmead dated Sep 1874. At this time Lucy is in Marylebone London. I am hoping to trace Lucy Mary Ann Bidmead's parents. I am having no luck on Ancestry.com.au or on the FreeBMD site.
-
Hello and Welcome to Rootschat.
Did Lucy marry? if so, marriage cert.will give her fathers name.
Jackie
-
Welcome to rootschat :)
Is this the family in 1891 living Wadhurst, Sussex
Lucy Marriott 36 bn Banbury, Oxfordshire
Kate E Marriott 16 bn Marylebone, London
Charles E Marriott 10 bn Paddington, London
Maud E Marriott 7 bn Clerkenwell, London
Beatrice E Marriott 6 bn Borough, London
Algeron C Marriott 4 bn Wadhurst, Sussex
Florence L Marriott 1 bn Wadhurst, Sussex
-
Marriage at St Mark, Notting Hill
18 June 1876
Charles Marriott Bachelor Bricklayer
s/o John Joseph Marriott Bricklayer
Mary Ann Bidmeade Spinster
d/o Samuel Bidmeade Chair Turner [?]
Both of full age. Both give the same address, 9 [-] Street (Sorry I can't read the name)
Witnessess: Onesiphorus Cox
Elizabeth Cox[X]
Onesiphorus Cox married Elizabeth Bidmead at St Mark, Notting Hill 25 December 1873
Elizabeth's father is shown as David Bidmead, farrier furrier. Witnesses are Lucy Bidmead and John Gill.
In 1881 Elizabeth names her birthplace as High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire.
-
The only Bidmead record around that time in Banbury St May's registers is a marriage
1858 3rd August
George Johnson (x) 35 wid of Calthorpe Lane son of William lab
to
Catherine Bidmead 34 of Calthorpe lane daughter of David, furrier
There are no baptisms or burials for Bidmeads for 10 years either side of this marriage
However checking with familysearch, there is a baptism of a Catherine Bidmead in 1824 at SAINT MARYS STREET WESLEYAN,CHEPPING WYCOMBE,BUCKINGHAM the daughter of David and Lucy
So if Elizabeth was born in Wycombe the daughter of David Bidmead and Catherine was born there daughter of David & Lucy I am thinking they could be sisters. Perhaps Catherine had Lucy Mary Ann in about 1855 before her marriage to George Johnson, she may not have registered the birth!
DebbieG
-
I've changed David Bidmead's occupation to furrier in my previous post, which I think is now correct.
From:
https://familysearch.org/search
Chipping Wycombe, Buckinghamshire
Baptism 30 August 1830
Betsy Bidmead
d/o David & Lucy Bidmead
I think this is probably Elizabeth Bidmead who married Onesiphorus Cox - she is aged 50 in 1881.
David and Lucy Bidmead also baptised children named Isaac Bidmead, Charles Bidmead and John Swan Bidmead (David Bidmead married Lucy Swan 20 July 1820, Wycombe)
Before her marriage to George Jonson, Catherine Bidmead spent several years with a man named Henry Garthwaite, but seems not to have married him. A daughter-in-law (ie step-daughter), named Mary Ann Garthwaite who appears in the 1861 census with Catherine and George aged 7 is possibly the same person as Lucy Mary Garthwaite, whose birth was registered in Banbury district in 1853. She may be the person you are looking for.
(If you would like full census details for 1851 and 1861 I can do them tomorrow, but it's getting a bit late here :) )
-
Thank you
You have found Lucy Mary Ann's marriage to Charles Marriott. Obviously the reason I could not find it was her first name Lucy was not recorded. The Kate Marriott on the cencus is her illegitimate daughter Catherine Eleanour Bidmead. The Elizabeth Bidmead you found maybe her cousin rather than her sister if they have different dads. Now I know her father is Samuel Bidmeade - chair turner I maybe able to trace more of the family.
-
Ohh nice spot on the relationship with Henry Garthwaite, Galium :)
From the registers of St Mary's, Banbury
burial
15 May 1853 Henry John Garthwaite of Calthorpe Lane aged 33
baptisms
1853 May 25th George son of Henry John & Catherine Garthwaite of Calthorpe Lane French Polisher
1853 May 25th Thomsine Elizabeth daughter of Henry John & Catherine Garthwaite of Calthorpe Lane French Polisher
1853 May 25th Samuel Robert son of Henry John & Catherine Garthwaite of Calthorpe Lane French Polisher
1853 July 4th Lucy Mary daughter of Henry John & Catherine Garthwaite of Calthorpe Lane French Polisher
It looks as though Catherine had the children baptised (after the death of Henry) and registered as Garthwaite even though she and Henry John weren't married, and later they reverted to the name Bidmead I can see a likly George & Samuel Bidmead in later census (they were both Chimney sweeps). They both give their place of birth as Banbury. I think it very likly that the Lucy Mary above is the one you are looking for annevicary and that the father Samuel Bidmead on her marriage registration is made up useing her brothers name (I have seen this sort of thing before).
-
1841 census
Newland, High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire
David Bidmead 50 MS [Male Servant] born in county
Lucy Bidmead 50 " "
Catherine Bidmead 15 " "
Charles Bidmead 15 " "
Betsy Bidmead 10 " "
John Bidmead 5 " "
There is also a Louisa Bidmead aged 15 employed as a servant in the household of James Furness in High Wycombe.
[In the 1841 census, ages of anyone over the age of 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5]
I can't see a baptism for Louisa, but a Louisa Bidmead married James Hawes at St John, Notting Hill on 25 December 1852. Her father is David Bidmead, furrier. In later censuses this couple show their birthplace as High Wycombe.
1851 census
Oxford Road, Chipping Wycombe, Buckinghamshire
Henry Garthwaite head M 29 French Polisher Surrey, Lambeth
Catherine Garthwaite wife M 27 Staffordshire, Bilston*
Samuel Garthwaite son 2 " "
George Garthwaite son 10m " "
Elizabeth Garthwaite daur 1m Bucks, Wycombe
*I think this is an enumerator's error. Also the reversal of George and Elizabeth's details, as other records indicate that Elizabeth is the elder..
1861 census
Calthorpe Lane, Banbury, Oxfordshire
George Johnson head 29 M drover Northants, Newnham
Catherine Johnson wife 26 M Bucks, High Wycombe
Samuel Garthwaite S-i-L 12 chimney sweep Staffs, Bilston
Elizabeth Gathwaite D-i-L 11 Staffs, Bilston
George Garthwaite S-i-L 10 Staffs, Bilston
Mary Ann Garthwaite D-i-L 7 Oxon, Banbury
James Johnson son 2 Oxon, Banbury
Sarah Anne Johnson daur 1m Oxon, Banbury
Samuel is possibly the Robert Garthwaite* whose birth was registered in Wolverhampton district in 1848. There is an Elizabeth Garthwaite in Dec q 1849, and George Garthwaite in Dec q 1850, both in Wolverhampton district (which includes Bilston).
Samuel Robert* Bidmead, chimney sweep who appears in later censuses giving his birthplace as Banbury had a daughter named Lucy Mary Ann, born in Banbury district in 1873.
George Bidmead, chimney sweep who appears in later censuses giving his birthplace as Banbury also had a daughter named Lucy Mary Ann, born in 1874.
-
Thank you for all this info. I have been searching those records and I have sent away for Lucy Mary Garthwaite's birth certificate to see if it sheds anymore light on the subject. If she is the same person it's very strange then that she put Samuel Beadmeade - chair turner as her father on her marriage banns. Obviously she is related to Elizabeth Bidmead but how I am still not sure, could be a niece or her daughter, I just don't know.
-
Galium you had a question mark after "chair turner". This is what I found as a discription of the profession. A chair turner turned the legs & spindles used in chair making often turned of rough "bodgers" - lathes - as a cottage industry - common in Buckinghamshire.
-
Thanks. The writing in the marriage register wasn't clear, which is why I wasn't sure if I had transcribed correctly.
I suspect, as Debbie pointed out, that Samuel Bidmead was a fiction. This wasn't unusual for someone who didn't know the true answer when it came to filling in the father's details in the marriage register. Catherine's Bidmead's daughter by Henry Garthwaite would never have known her father, and quite possibly did not know his name or what he did for a living. It might well have been something that wasn't talked about.
In 1851, Lucy Bidmead, widow of David was living in Chipping Wycombe in a neighbourhood which the census page suggests was populated by people involved in chair making in various ways - although the Bidmeads themselves do not seem to have been. Perhaps there is some connection with this and Lucy Mary Ann's choice of occupation for her father.
I've been trying to find Catherine and Lucy Mary Ann in 1871, but no luck so far.
-
Thank you Galium.
The info certainly seems to follow through and I will at this point put Catherine as Lucy Mary Ann's mother. :)
-
Further to Lucy Mary Ann Bidmead - after marrying Charles Marriott in 1876 and living with him in London while he did bricklaying she decided in the mid to late 1880's to move to the country with her kids and caretake large houses, first Buckhurst Manor in Wadhurst, Sussex and in the late 1890's Chichister House Surbiton, Surrey. In the meantime Charles Marriott seems to spend most of his time in London bricklaying. By 1911 Lucy has moved to Abbott's Hall Farm Stanford Le Hope, Essex with her son Algernon and daughter Hilda. On the 1911 cencus it says that Algernon is the godson of the owner assisting as farm bailiff.
If there anyway to find out who owned Abbotts Hall Farm in 1911 and before that?
-
I'm not sure, but I think it may have belonged to the Blyth family - who seem to have been important in Stanford-le-Hope around that time. The Blyths lived at Hassingbrook/Hassenbrook Hall, and it looks as if Abbots Hall Farm belonged to the estate.
This page from Kelly's directory for Essex 1914 shows Samuel Blyth as the current occupant of Hassenbrook Hall, and Algernon Marriott as the occupant of Abbotts Hall Farm
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0xuk/
More information here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0xul/
-
I have found the owners of Hassenbrook Hall. John Blyth 1851-1887 - Founder of Blyth & Squier's Brewery, Thomas Worrin Blyth 1887-1902, John Squier 1902-1957. Samuel Blyth may have been leasing off John Squier. I have also discovered that my extended family married into the Squier family.
-
Further to ownership of Abbotts Hall. When the Hassenbrook estate was broken up John Blyth bought Hassenbrook, James Farmer bought Abbotts Hall and gave copyhold to John Blyth for a while, which I presume is like leasehold, and Cabborns to John Mayes. Cabborns was another part of the Hassenbrook estate and went on to be called the Manor House Standford Le Hope.
James Farmer is the father of Lucy Mary Ann Bidmead's last 3 children even though they were baptised under her husband's name. James Farmer left Abbotts Hall to Lucy's son Algernon Cromwell Marriott when he died in 1912. James Farmer is therefore the godfather mentioned on the 1911 census.
-
I have recently received a copy of Lucy Mary Ann Marriott nee Bidmead's will and in it she lists as beneficiaries all her living children and one of those children I had not come across before. Her name is Madeline De Vere Johnson. I have found the death certificate of Madeline De Vere Johnson otherwise known as Lizzy De Vere Johnson dated 22 Mar 1931 and she is listed as a spinster and domestic help 59 Clarence Rd, New Windsor. I have also found Madeline Johnson living with Lucy's Aunt Louisa Hawes nee Bidmead as her adopted daughter in 1881 and 1891 and as Lizzie Johnson her niece in 1901 (obviously by that time she had been told who her birth mother was). She is listed as being born about 1872 in Woodstock in 1881 and 1891 and Banbury in 1901. I have been trying to find her birth certificate but have had no luck so far. I sent away for a certificate of a Lizzy Johnson born 1972 in Woodstock but it was the wrong person. I would like some help with finding the birth certificate it might shed some light on why she keeps changing her name.
-
Have you found her in 1911?
-
No I have not found her in 1911