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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Cienna on Friday 31 January 14 11:30 GMT (UK)
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Please can someone help me with the death of Henry Mason believed to have died in Sorell, Tasmania, he was born around 1825 where unknown, don't know if he arrived as a convict or born in Tassie.
I have found no marriage date for him but I am led to believe he was in a partnership with Emeline Wiggins and the unison produced at least 5 children, the younger ones being sent to the New Town orphanage after the early death if their mother.
I would appreciate anything that may shed some light.
Thank You.
Cienna.
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Tasportal has his death as 1896 at Sorell. Tasportal is a good start in looking for information but not always reliable, and not necessarily comprehensive. There are a number of men with the same name listed but this is the one who seems to fit best.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=375801
From the same site:
Emeline WIGGINS
Marriage/Relationship: 1866 - SORELL,Tasmania (Henry MASON )
Children:
375990 MASON MARY JANE 1866
376004 MASON NANCY 1868
375870 MASON JOHN 1869
375981 MASON MARY ANN 1872
375920 MASON M 1873
Judith
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DOUGLAS, Henry
DOUGLAS, Ida
DOUGLAS, Susan
DOUGLAS, Thomas
Mother for the above children is Emmaline Wiggins and father noted as Charles Douglas
Dated 1 Sept 1864
http://www.orphanschool.org.au/listorphansmother.php
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Thank you Giblet, Emmaline did marry Charles Douglas but I have never found a place of death for him......any help there? thank you for the extra children for them also I only had Susan.
Regards
Cienna
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Australian Death Index has this:
Tasmania, 1896, Reg No 707
Henry MASON, 71,
Died: 8 Sep 1896
Registration Place: Port Sorell, Tasmania
Registration Number: 707
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
If the children found by Giblet are from the same mother, did she leave them in the orphanage then go on to have the children with Henry MASON ???
Edit to add: I note that they were not admitted to the orphanage in 1864, but seem to have been granted an allowance.
Judith
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From the Tasmanian TPI
Henry Mason died 8/9/1896 registered at Sorell (not Port Sorell ) aged 71.
RDG 707/1896
Johngirl
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Is this Emeline's death?
Tasmania, 1873, reg no 530
Emeline DOUGLAS, 36
Died: 6 Aug 1873
Registered: Port Sorell, Tasmania
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Emeline and Charles DOUGLAS were married in 1864
Tasmania 1864, reg no 663
Emmeline WIGGINS, Charles DOUGLAS
Marriage Date: 25 Jul 1864
Registration Place: Port Sorell, Tasmania
Emmeline was born 24 Jan 1837
Parents: Thomas Wiggins, Susannah Wiggins
Birth Place: Tasmania
There are a number of death records for Charles DOUGLAS but no way of knowing which is the right one.
Judith
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I'm totally confused now Judith, Emmaline died in Sorell 1873, the children to Henry Mason were born between 1866-1873, the youngest being born of that year....Emmaline passing August 6, due to complications of the birth of last child whom also died....August 2.
Now I have a date of marriage to Charles Douglas 1864, Susan their child was born 1858 at Longford, Tasmania, so the question is where do the other children fit in? well I have no idea, I think I will retire for the night and sleep on it if this problem will allow me to sleep.
Thank you for everything.
Ceinna
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Hmm
It sure is confusing as Tasportal shows only these two girls as being children of Emmeline and Charles, both girls born i n Longford:
99301 DOUGLAS MARY ANN SUSANAH 1858
99302 DOUGLAS SUSAN 1858
The name Susan fits with one of the children on the orphanage list, but no sign of Mary Ann Susanah.
Seems to me that possibly Emmeline and Charles did not formalise their relationship by marrying until some years after the children were born. Unfortunately the orphanage record doesn't give the ages of the children.
Judith
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I had some contact with a family member in Victoria she is a great grand daughter to Susan and she informed me Susan and Mary Ann Susanah were one and the same there was it would seem a bit of confusion with her birth, have since lost contact with her so unable to find out more, she said Susan was her only child with Charles whose name was James Charles Douglas so more confusion.
Will have to try and fit in the other children that Giblet sent to me, will more than likely find more confusion that's what family research does to us all.
Cienna.
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Charles Douglas
Birth Date 1836
Age 28
Name Emmeline Wiggins
Birth Date 1839
Age 25
Event Date 25 Jul 1864
Event Place Sorell, Tasmania, Australia
This doesnt help any but at least it might give us a bit of a idea of when Charles was born.
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Maybe Emmeline never married Henry Mason because she was still legally married to Charles Douglas. A thought is Charles might have taken off which is why Emmeline has orphange records for allowances for the kids.
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not admitted to Queens Orphan School, but 7/- week for 6mths - from Sorell
dated 1864 but what is interesting is that Ida's record is dated 25 Oct 1867. So was Ida born between 1864 and 1867?? ???
Ceinna, Can you post the kids names and dates of birth that Emmeline had with Henry Mason please?
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Thank you Giblet for all your input, I never gave it any thought that maybe Charles was still alive when Emeline hooked up with Henry....but if she did hook up with Henry and the first of their children was born 1866 then that would mean Charles would have been deceased for two years......I am totally lost on this family.
I didn't have the other children for Charles & Emeline only Susan so I have nothing to go on for them but thank you for sending them through.
Children for Henry & Emeline:
Rubina (b) 1866 Sorell
I also have a Mary Jane (b) 1866 (who is more than likely Rubina again a names change.)
Nancy (b) 1868 Sorell
John William (b) 1869 Sorell (d) 1873 Hobart
Mary Ann (b) 1872 Sorell (may be Emmaline Matilda)
Emmaline Matilda (b) 14872 Sorell (my g-great grandmother)
Male (b) 1873 Sorell (d) 1873)
There does seem to be a discrepancy with Mary Ann and Emmaline, I was told on entering the orphange Emmaline's name was changed to Mary Ann, there were as far a I know no twins born to the parents;
I need to get over all this confusion before I can continue my research.
Cienna
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DOUGLAS, Henry
DOUGLAS, Ida
DOUGLAS, Susan
DOUGLAS, Thomas
Wonder if a email to Tasmania state archives would be of any help. We know Susan was born 1858 but maybe the archives might have more information on their records, for the payments Ammeline got. Just seems strange that only one birth can be found and would be interesting if we could get hold of the ages of the other kids.
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Yes, I may have to take that trip to Archives and see what they are, I have only come across one Ida Douglas and the parents were not Charles and Emmeline.
Thank you for all your help Giblet.
Cienna
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Interesting to note that, according to the Australian Birth Index, there are 2 separate registrations in 1858 both showing mother as Emeline WIGGINS.
Susan Douglas
Birth Date: 9 Nov 1858
Father's Name: Charles Douglas
Mother's Name: Emeline Wiggins
Registration Year: 1858
Registration Place: Longford, Tasmania
Registration Number: 1446
Mary Ann Susanah Douglas
Birth Date: 19 Oct 1858
Father's Name: James Charles Douglas
Mother's Name: Emeline Wiggins
Registration Year: 1858
Registration Place: Longford, Tasmania
Registration Number: 1460
No help at all really, just interesting (if the index is correct). Judith
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According to the family of Susan living in Victoria, Mary Ann Susanah Douglas is not related to them just they don't know what happened there but they assure me Susan is the right one, I do have the info on both and still trying to work out who Mary Ann may have been.
Cienna
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Hi cienna!! I have stumbled across this thread as I am looking for the parents/birth of my great great grandmother Emmeline Mathilda Mason (married Frederick Bandy Williams), I have not been able to find anything at all about her before she married/had children/death (she died in Beechworth Victoria the mental hospital apparently) I am wondering if this is also your relative! I have come across Emeline wiggins thinking it was her but the dates weren't right but now that you guys are mentioning mary Anne could be emmeline is finally a lead for me! I am just wondering if you have had any luck finding anything out!
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Welcome to Rootschat Mikkles.
Is this the index entry for the death of your Emmeline?
Victoria, 1957 #23752
Emmaline Matilda WILLIAMS, 82
Born abt 1875
Died at Beechworth, Victoria
And this is one of her children? (with terrible mistranscriptions on the index I have access to!)
Victoria, 1972, 28684
Esseline Cordeli DAVEY, 66
Born abt 1906
Died at Heidelberg, Victoria
Father's name: Frede Williams
Mother's name: Emeline Matild Mason
There is quite a lot you can see by searching the Tasmanian LINC site
http://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names
Is this their marriage??
Tasmania, 1890, #574
Fredrick Williams, Emma Mason
16 Jul 1890 at Hobart, Tasmania
There is a public tree on-line which suggest that your Emmeline's parents were Henry MASON and Emmeline WIGGINS/DOUGLAS, and that she was born at Longley, Tasmania. However there is no documentary evidence shown for this information so it would need to be verified.
Have a hunt on the LINC site ans see if you can unravel a bit more.
Judith
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Hi Judith, thank you for the info I have most of her children's info and marriage but could never find her birth certificate or who her parents until coming across this chat it's the only thing I have seen but am going into linc to search the records on Tuesday so if I find anything I will post on here! Sounds like I'll have to search the orphan documents if emmeline wiggins/henry Mason are her parents I know she died at the mental hospital in Beechworth vic so she must of had a pretty hard life :( but am happy I'm on the right path by the sounds so thank you very much for you help! If you find anything on her birth and parents that would be great to let me know thank you :)
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Having a quick look on the LINC site I cannot see a birth for an Emmeline/Emmaline or an Emma Mason that fits. However, as I say, it wasn't an in-depth search.
Perhaps one of the children's birth certificates would have a little more information about their mother's origins - if the person giving the information had it correct.
The site below lists the information asked for when registering BMDs in all States.
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
As you can see Tasmanian birth registrations later than 1902 should have the parents' ages and places of birth.
Judith
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Hello, I don't know how far you have got in your research, however I hope that I can help. My son in law is a descendant
of Charles Douglas & Emmaline Wiggins. The story is a very confused one. They married at Sorell in 1864, he states his
name is Charles Douglas. They had four children, 3 if not the 4 were before the wedding. Only 1 child was registered,
Susan's birth was registered when she was 2 days old (11 Nov) by her father Charles Douglas. However her mother
re-registered her on the 3rd Dec. She re-named her Mary Ann Susannah, & stated the father was James Charles Douglas.
(I haven't found the Christening of any of these children). Emmaline leaves Charles shortly after the birth of Ida, & takes
up with Henry Mason. They have 6 children. William b.14 Oct 1865, Christened 15 May 1866 Page 77. Mary Jane b. 17
Nov 1866 (later Christened Robinia Johnston Mason, Christened 21 Aug 1867, page 80), & Robina in the Queen's orphanage).
Nancy b. 19 Apr 1868, Christened 9 Sep 1868 page 84. (I think her name was changed, something Lavender? but don't
have it in my computer), John Christened 6 Aug 1870, page 90. Mary Ann Christened 26 Dec 1872, page 99, name
changed to Emma Matilda. Baby boy, born & died 2 Aug 1873, & Emmaline died from debility 4 days after the birth of
the baby boy. There was a request for the (Douglas & Mason children to be admitted to the Queen's orphanage.
(I haven't got a who took over the care of the Douglas children, or who would have paid for their keep, so as not to be made
wards of the state. The Mason children were all admitted to the orphanage, & there is a lot of information regarding them.
Hope that this helps you, & if you discover anything relating to the Douglas children, I'd be ecstatic. Cheers Britt.
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Henry Douglas died in 1947. A big story and photo of him in the Newspaper with a photo of him as the last of the whalers. Henry is my son in law's 2x great grandfather. Also, apologies, I forgot to state that the page numbers for the Baptisms of the Mason children were the Church of England, Sorell. Cheers Britt.
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Just adding a link to obit for Henry DOUGLAS in 1947 (an old whaler) as mentioned by Britt
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article26389270 But there isn't a photo with this one :(
regards
Ros
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Here is a link to the headstone photo of Henry and Emma Jane Douglas who are buried at the Middleton Cemetery Tasmania.
http://www.gravesoftas.com.au/municipalities/Kingborough/Middleton%20Cemetery/2/Douglas%20Henry.jpg
Johngirl
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I'm sorry I got the wrong Henry. I've just realized that you are seeking Henry Mason's death, and I gave you Henry Douglas' death. Newspaper article & photo of Henry Douglas. "Oldest Link With Whaling Days Of Hobart Town"
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Tuesday 23 May 1944 p 6 Article Illustrated. Britt
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Thank you for the link to Henry & Emma's grave. I go to Tassie a lot, & have paid my respects at their grave. My own family on both mum & dad's side are from Tassie, back to the first fleet. Cheers Britt
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Hello, I don't know how far you have got in your research, however I hope that I can help. My son in law is a descendant
of Charles Douglas & Emmaline Wiggins. The story is a very confused one. They married at Sorell in 1864, he states his
name is Charles Douglas. They had four children, 3 if not the 4 were before the wedding. Only 1 child was registered,
Susan's birth was registered when she was 2 days old (11 Nov) by her father Charles Douglas. However her mother
re-registered her on the 3rd Dec. She re-named her Mary Ann Susannah, & stated the father was James Charles Douglas.
(I haven't found the Christening of any of these children). Emmaline leaves Charles shortly after the birth of Ida, & takes
up with Henry Mason. They have 6 children. William b.14 Oct 1865, Christened 15 May 1866 Page 77. Mary Jane b. 17
Nov 1866 (later Christened Robinia Johnston Mason, Christened 21 Aug 1867, page 80), & Robina in the Queen's orphanage).
Nancy b. 19 Apr 1868, Christened 9 Sep 1868 page 84. (I think her name was changed, something Lavender? but don't
have it in my computer), John Christened 6 Aug 1870, page 90. Mary Ann Christened 26 Dec 1872, page 99, name
changed to Emma Matilda. Baby boy, born & died 2 Aug 1873, & Emmaline died from debility 4 days after the birth of
the baby boy. There was a request for the (Douglas & Mason children to be admitted to the Queen's orphanage.
(I haven't got a clue who took over the care of the Douglas children, or who would have paid for their keep, so that they wouldn't be made wards of the state. The Mason children were all admitted to the orphanage, & there is a lot of information regarding them in the Queen's Orphanage records.
Hope that this helps you, & if you discover anything relating to the Douglas children, I'd be ecstatic. Cheers Britt.
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Oh my gosh you guys are amazing that you soo much for that infomation! I actually live 10 minutes away from Sorell and work there! I know the wiggins family are quite big in the Sorell area but never knew I would be related to them! I will have to go and have a look at the baptisms one time but the queens orphanage info is just so helpful, it has actually been on the news lately down here that they had found a grassed area to actually be a burial ground of children from the orphanage but it was all unmarked, I went to school at Ogilvie in Newtown and we used to all sit on the area :/ it would be interesting to know where emmelines brothers and sister all went to, do you guys know if there is a way we can find who looked after them afterwards? I wonder what happened to the father henry Mason why he couldn't look after them? It's just such a sad story :( I will let you know if I find anything else thank you all very much :)