RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: heatherrr on Friday 31 January 14 23:14 GMT (UK)
-
In different certificates/census trying to find my 3rd great grandfather, most have his name as Andrew, but in others he's listed as John.
I've looked for death certificates for both and can find neither.
Is John most likely his middle name or what he was known by?
Anyone else have Dias ancestry in Scotland?
-
There was a family in Cambusnethan parish (Lanarkshire) by the name of DYAS.
-
The 2005 electoral rolls for Scotland show some 28 with the surname Dias comprising individuals,
couples and larger family groups.
They appear in Aberdeenshire, Edinburgh, Fife, Glasgow, Inverness-shire & Renfrewshire.
I can provide details but only via Private Message (PM) if you have a specific location.
Mike.
-
I have no idea of any Dias that might be related now. The most recent Dias I have is my g-g-gran born in 1867. Trying to trace her family for my mum.
-
You might want to consider DEAS and include that spelling in your searches or if you are searching SP, use the 'wildcard' facility - typing in d*as which would cover most variants.
If you were to post more specific details there's a bigger possibility we could assist.
Anne
-
If you use Family Search (https://familysearch.org)
Type in Andrew Deas, residence Scotland
There's hundreds of them!
Anne :)
-
Thanks, my g-g-gran was Mary Dias (b. 1867 in Glasgow), her father is listed as Andrew Dias on her birth certificate but John Dias on her marriage, but all the other information matches.
I had a look on scotlandspeople and couldn't find him in anything further back than the 1851 census. I think his mothers name might be Mary too.
-
In the 1851 census he is 18, living with his mum and brother Joseph. His mum was born in Sutherland/Dornoch, but they were born in Glasgow. Would like to find her maiden name or his dads name.
-
On Mary's birth certificate what was her fathers occupation? What was her mother's name? If they were married it should state ***Dias m.s.***. If it doesn't then it would suggest they were not married. Have you managed to trace any of Mary's paternal line? If her uncle Joseph married, after 1855, for example then his marriage certificate would name the same parents as Andrew surely? Did you find Andrew & Joseph's mother's death certificate? It would state who her late husband was. She may be buried in the same lair as him as well.
flst
-
Name: Andrew Dias married a Margaret Stewart Or Smith on the 17 Jun 1853 at Barony, Lanark, Scotland.
Regards
Malky
-
Her dad was a hatter in her birth/marriage/death certificates. I couldn't find a birth or death for him or Joseph. I just know their mum was called Mary (from the 1851 census) but their father wasn't listed and she was under Dias.
I have another question/mystery once we get to her mum.
Her name was Margaret Stewart on her own birth certificate, and on Marys. But when I searched her marriage to Andrew the results page said her name was "Stewart or Smith", and on the actual marriage certificate it says Smith. Could she have been widowed/divorced before she married Andrew? Could I post the snippet of their marriage certificate?
-
Is this the Dias family in 1881:
Margaret Dias 50 Formerly Boot Binder
Joseph Dias 24 Journeyman Flesher https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQJD-HZC
Margaret Dias 22 Wincey Weaver https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQWH-Z4D
Isabella Dias 16 Boot Top Machinist In Factory https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQWH-BDD
Mary Dias 13 Message Girl In Confectionery https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQWC-CX4
Andrew Dias 10 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ5Y-ZGD
Address: 2 Market St, Glasgow Calton
A check of this census would help in confirming the marital status of Margaret Stewart Dias.
Two more children that don't show in 1881:
Jane 1853 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X1SS-KL6
Thomas 1862 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ51-R5C
...said her name was "Stewart or Smith", and on the actual marriage certificate it says Smith. Could she have been widowed/divorced before she married Andrew? Could I post the snippet of their marriage certificate?
This can often indicate an illegitimate birth, where people would later go by either reputed father's surname or mother's surname.
Monica
-
Were Mary's parents married? She may have been illegitimate. It was common for children to be registered under one surname & known by another. Or, even one of the surnames could have been a stepfather's! If she was married before, her status would appear as a widow, if she wasn't, she would be a spinster. Hope this helps. Speaking of marriages, were any of the witnesses family members?
flst.
-
Sorry, flst. I added to my post and we crossed over :P
Monica
-
This looks to be the family in 1871 - all born in Glasgow. Family surname mis transcribed as shown. Andrew Snr's age looks light too:
Andrew Teas 29 silk platter
Margaret Teas 39
Jane Teas 17
Joseph Teas 15
Margaret Teas 10
Isabella Teas 7
Mary Teas 4
Andrew Teas 1
Address: 2 Market St, Glasgow Calton
Odd about Andrew Snr's age. This looks to be the family in 1861 from what we have. How can Andrew be so young, marry and father from 1853 ::)
Andrew Dias 20 Silk Hatter
Margaret Dias 29
Jane Dias 7
Joseph Dias 4
Margaret Dias 2
Address: 4 Market St East, Glasgow Calton
This reference to Andrew Snr for 1871 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBPZ-B1Q - age more likely as showing on this link.
Monica
-
A small online tree for Mary's brother, Joseph McGill who married a Mary McGill in 1885, gives mother Margaret Stewart's death on Christmas Eve of 1912. Have you seen this? I can see it on SP in 1912 in Calton. Calton area seems to have been their base for many years from all these registrations. If you have seen it, what does it say regarding her parents' details (hopefully the informant knew the details)?
Monica
-
"Odd about Andrew Snr's age. This looks to be the family in 1861 from what we have. How can Andrew be so young, marry and father from 1853"
Some of the older children may not be Andrews, but have been given his surname. This may explain the Stewart or Smith. Margaret was more than likley married prior to the marriage to Andrew.
1901 census.
Margaret (Dias) Buchanan 38 (Head)
James Buchanan 14 (Son)
William Buchanan 17 (Son)
Margaret Dias 67 (Mother)
Joseph Dias 40 (Brother)
Isabella Dias 10 (Niece)
Regards
Malky
-
Margaret is still alive in 1901. She's staying with her daughter Margaret Buchanan, & family, & Joseph is there too, and another grandaughter at 5 King Street, Calton.
flst
-
Malky, I found a census reference for 1871:
This reference to Andrew Snr for 1871 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBPZ-B1Q - age more likely as showing on this link.
I think the two censuses we have for Andrew, 1861 & 1871, might have his age mistranscribed? But this is only the transcript. The originals are likely crystal clear ::)
Monica
Added: And there is this for 1861 as an alternative to Andrew Snr https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VB4Q-JJF
-
It's interesting that he is 20 in '61 and 10 years later, 29 in'71.
Regards
Malky
Added, I also note that there are 3 census entries in IGI, birth year, (1871)1832, (1861)1833 and (1841)1836.
-
;D My goodness, what is it about Andrew's age on the transcripts! From 1851 and the one you mentioned Heather:
Mary Dias 53 Cotton Yarn Winder b. Durnoch Sutherland
Joseph Dias 22 Hatter (app)
Andrew Dias 48 Hatter (app)...FreeCen show 18
Eliza Quin 9 lodger b. Ireland
Address: 35 King St Calton
-
A thought....from 1841...
All we have so far for Andrew is a brother Joseph and possibly a mother Mary.
There is this family from 1841 in Glasgow Chalmers (Calton) where Andrew and family seemed to live for many years. This entry is from www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl. The other transcript shows the family as Dicas.
Isabella Dias 40 b. Scotland
John Dias 20 Shoemaker Journeyman
David Dias 20 Cloth Lapper
Robert Dias 15 Potter Apprentice
Joseph Dias 10 Cloth Lapper
Andrew Dias 5
Address: Kingfield Row, Glasgow Chalmers
-
I had hoped we could find further details on Andrew's brother Joseph (marriage or death really to confirm parents' names). Saw this https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V5HT-MSD
Wondered where he ended up :-\
Monica
Added: maybe connected to this http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C8793799
-
Death, Joseph Dias, (73) Butcher, widower of Mary McGill, 2nd Christina Currie or Weir. March 9th 1930. Father, Andrew Dias, mother Margaret Stewart. 39 Glenlyon Street, Glasgow. Witness, daughter Isabella Scott.
Regards
Malky
-
~ that is certainly Heather's family :)
I am not sure where Andrew was referenced as John (was it Mary's marriage entry?) but elsewhere he certainly shows as Andrew I think.
Monica
-
Wow, thank you all for the help :D I'll have to go back and check it all out.
I have the birth certificate/notice for Margaret Stewart/Smith (b. 1831) and I know her parents are Thomas Stewart and Jane/Jean Swan, and she was their 2nd child.
;D My goodness, what is it about Andrew's age on the transcripts! From 1851 and the one you mentioned Heather:
Mary Dias 53 Cotton Yarn Winder b. Durnoch Sutherland
Joseph Dias 22 Hatter (app)
Andrew Dias 48 Hatter (app)...FreeCen show 18
Eliza Quin 9 lodger b. Ireland
Address: 35 King St Calton
That's what I have from the 1851 census, where Andrew is listed 18 the and son of Mary (53). Can find no mention of him earlier.
Its on her birth (which I only have a printed copy), and 1st marriage (to my g-g granddad) that he is mentioned as John..
Her marriage was in 1884.
-
Two more children that don't show in 1881:
Jane 1853 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X1SS-KL6
Thomas 1862 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ51-R5C
I have both a Thomas & Mary listed as their children too. Thomas died in 1863 when he was 1, and I have Jane as born in 1853, but no other info on her.
Margaret Stewart died in 1912.
Margaret Stewart
widow of Andrew Dias.
Her dad is listed here as Thomas Stewart also.
-
Death, Joseph Dias, (73) Butcher, widower of Mary McGill, 2nd Christina Currie or Weir. March 9th 1930. Father, Andrew Dias, mother Margaret Stewart. 39 Glenlyon Street, Glasgow. Witness, daughter Isabella Scott.
Regards
Malky
Thank you!
-
Death, Joseph Dias, (73) Butcher, widower of Mary McGill, 2nd Christina Currie or Weir. March 9th 1930. Father, Andrew Dias, mother Margaret Stewart. 39 Glenlyon Street, Glasgow. Witness, daughter Isabella Scott.
Regards
Malky
Thank you, does that mean he was married to Christina after he was widowed by Mary?
-
Yes. 1907 Christina Weir. Record on S.P.
Regards
Malky
-
Great, thanks.
-
Hello, my name is Haydn and I'm part of the Dias family in Dorset :) My Nan is very interested in the name history and so has compiled a massive family tree, her name is Laura, my grandad Robert Dias and great uncle John Dias. If you have Amy questions I'm more than happy to try and answer them!
-
Hey, thanks. I sent you a PM.
-
Hi, I can't reply to PM's at the moment, but I will ask my nan about it and will give you a follow up reply :) You can email me at (*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php[/color]
-
Thanks, since your email didn't show, just let me know on here?
-
I found a birth of an illegitimate child that I think could related. Born in 1911. Why would a birth be re-registered, from what looks to be many years apart?
-
Did the parents subsequently marry? Births were sometimes re-registered to give the person a "respectable" birth certificate, usually just before the person was married.
-
I'm not sure, can't find the 're-registered' birth, and no father is listed on the one where she's mentioned as illegitimate. Looks like I have more investigating to do :)
-
Heather, where is the snippet from that shows the re-registration in 1952? What are the words/letters on the left hand side?
Monica
-
It's a birth certificate from 1911, does that re-registration date look like 1952?
Here is the side bit rotated, is this the bit you were talking about?
-
Heather, where is the snippet from that shows the re-registration in 1952? What are the words/letters on the left hand side?
Monica
Sorry I just noticed that you mentioned 1952 here, just wasn't sure if it would make sense to be so much later than the actual birth.
-
Hi Heather
I read it as 1952, may not be '5' though. If not clear, you can email SP and they will provide you with an enhanced image section that should make it clearer, see www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=1210
Reading the side note, made me think that perhaps there may have been two registrations for the same birth maybe in 1911? Sometimes happened when birth took place, different to parent(s)' usual residence. Not sure for the reasons for the registration...hopefully someone can help in this respect.
This is a geneal map of areas in Glasgow which helps a lot in giving you an idea of where districts were www.douglasbrown.co.uk/glw74map.html - map is for the period 1874 to 1900. Your birth is for 1911 so not sure if there were any changes in districts around that time.
Monica
-
Thanks, Monica.
I'll email SP and try to find more relatives and connect the dots.
-
As has been said above, it used to be the case that a couple could raise an action at the Sheriff Court to re-register an illegitimate birth of a child after the parents married. To my knowledge this was still going on up towards the end of the 20th Century but pretty rare.
I actually read the date as 1932 at first glance which would make the child c.21 years and, therefor, possibly about to get married themselves?
-
I thought it was either 52 or 32. 32 would make more sense.
-
My wife Tammy (Frees) Koos is a granddaughter of Isabella (Dias) Scott. We're looking for some information about this family as well, specifically the wedding date for William Scott and Isabella. We have a lot of correspondence written by Isabella to her daughter Phyllis (Scott) Frees who relocated to the United States.
Haydn, I also sent you a PM.
-
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) I am so happy to find all of you. We are living in Windsor Canada area. My mom is who you are looking for she is 76 and still alive today. I have been researching our lineage for 20 years and so happy to find those that are asking the right questions. So yes my grandfather was a butcher I never met him I was born 73. My parents came to Canada with my siblings in the mid 60's. I have a sister and Brother and we all have many children nieces nephews etc.
My Auntie who is 80 we have alot of original documents also to help. I am hoping to come over to Scotland in the next year or so.
-
just a wee thought ... folks I know called DEAS have it pronounced JESS, so if you are searching Censuses where Scribes could have written phonetically you could also find a missing ancestor
-
LostScottishRite, is your mom a Henderson!?
-
My grandfather is Joseph Dias Horsburgh his sister is Margaret aka my mom says called her Peggy and her sister Margaret Stewart Horsburgh was named after his sister. The other two were never spoken of my mom says though she new one died before she was born. He also was a butcher died at 73 and was married to Mary Watson DOB 1899 Nov18 and passed DOD 1990 Jan23.
-
My mother dad is Joseph Dias Horsburgh her name is Doris Kirk Horsburgh (Marshall) ;D
-
We have two Joseph Dias in the family tree.
Joseph Dias the father was born 1856-10-07 and lived until 1930-03-09. He was a butcher.
Joseph Dias (his son) was born 1888-08-12 and died around 1918.
No record of Horsburgh in our tree.
Alexander and Margaret (Dias) Henderson are our known Canadian ancestors.
-
We have two Joseph Dias in the family tree.
Joseph Dias the father was born 1856-10-07 and lived until 1930-03-09. He was a butcher.
Joseph Dias (his son) was born 1888-08-12 and died around 1918.
No record of Horsburgh in our tree.
Alexander and Margaret (Dias) Henderson are our known Canadian ancestors.
The Horsburghs are closer to my side of our Dias ancestry :)
-
My mother dad is Joseph Dias Horsburgh her name is Doris Kirk Horsburgh (Marshall) ;D
I have sent you a PM. :)
-
My mother dad is Joseph Dias Horsburgh her name is Doris Kirk Horsburgh (Marshall) ;D
I’m Marian Horsburgh daughter in law. Her and your mum are sisters
Can’t work out how to message you
:)
-
Can’t work out how to message you
Welcome to RootsChat.
You will be able to use the PM (Personal Message) system once you have made 3 posts on the forums.
-
Can you see messages now?
Bryan (Doris Horsburgh/Marshall) I am her son in Canada.
-
I’m struggling to use the forum on my phone. Will load up the laptop later on.
Can’t seem to reply to your message yet.