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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: armagh20 on Saturday 01 February 14 21:41 GMT (UK)
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Looking details on 2804 Pte James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers Born Newry age 28 died 4 9 1914 at Belfast
Son of Mrs Mary Ann Sands Chapel Lane Armagh, on how he died?
Can any one help?
Joe
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I was looking details from local Armagh people that's why I put it in the Ireland section??
Thanks for you help
Joe
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Hi - It got moved to Armed Forces but I have now moved it back to Armagh for you!
Milly
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Thanks Milly
It may help me get more details
Joe
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I was going to say to send off for the civil registration record for his death, but when I looked at the obvious candidate with that name in familysearch, his death was registered in the quarter before your James. In the absence of an exact name match, the closest I could see dying in that quarter of 1914 was a John Sands:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRVY-4YQ
James' service record gives no indication other than to confirm the date of death and possibly suggest that it was fairly sudden, for example, he was training up to August at Carrickfergus and was even up for being drunk one night about 1 - 2 weeks before his death.
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Hello Gaffy
That confirms what I know so far, but need a wee bit more details to confirm his Armagh connection
Many thanks
Joe
www.armaghwarmemorial.com
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For reference here's the link to CWGC page for James Sands-
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/661054/SANDS,%20J
Have you checked local papers (both before and after death date) to see if there was any mention of him?
If this is the correct family in 1911 there were siblings- have you tried tracing descendants to see if they have any details?
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Tullyhappy/Cullentrough/307148
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Hi,
In 1877 Michael Sands married Mary Doran and according to Family Search they had a son, James, in 1879. Michael can be found in the 1901 census as a widower living with the Doran Family. In 1905 Michael Sands married Mary Rice. Both marriages took place in Mullaghglass Roman Catholic Church.
Regards
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Thanks aghadowey
I do not think that is the same family but I will try and check further. The local Armagh papers have nothing but I will try the Belfast ones.
Thank you
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Hello kingskerswell
In the 1901 census I have Michael widower living with his family no mention of Doran? is that a typo?
"Michael can be found in the 1901 census as a widower living with the Doran Family"
Many thanks for your help
Joe
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Hi Joe,
There are two men named Michael Sands living in Co. Armagh and both are widowers in the 1901 census. I seem to have picked the wrong one. Sorry for that.
Regards
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kingskerswell
it is very confusing, trying to get at the truth
Joe
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Thanks aghadowey
I do not think that is the same family but I will try and check further. The local Armagh papers have nothing but I will try the Belfast ones.
Thank you
Why not same family?
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James Sands born newry, co down, enlisted Dundalk, co. louth, Residence Newry,
in th Princess Victoria's Royal Irish Fusiliers 4th Battalion
death 1914 at home
have you been in touch with the Royal Irish Fusiliers?
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Thanks Rathmore I am a Volunteer with the Royal Irish Fusiliers Museum here in Armagh so I have access to what records there are Joe
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I have a James Sands born between in the townland of Tormore outside of Newry, around 1886-1900
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It looks like James is indexed as John Sands as Gaffy suspected back in 2014.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05297/4472910.pdf
4 Sept 1914 at the Military Hospital, John Sands, Solider died from a fracture to the base of the scull and cardiac syncope
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Thanks Hugh and Sinann
Looks like this is John Sands where is townland of Tormore? Will look into it and let you know.I have John Sands on the Roll of Co Armagh WW1 casualties which can be seen in the Royal Irish Fusiliers Museum in Armagh
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Possibly Turmore
1889 James Sands, father James mother Isabella Boyd
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02478/1920069.pdf
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Hi,
In 1877 Michael Sands married Mary Doran and according to Family Search they had a son, James, in 1879. Michael can be found in the 1901 census as a widower living with the Doran Family. In 1905 Michael Sands married Mary Rice. Both marriages took place in Mullaghglass Roman Catholic Church.
Regards
Think this James Sands died in 1907
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05525/4548789.pdf
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Thanks Sinann