RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: armagh20 on Saturday 01 February 14 21:41 GMT (UK)

Title: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Saturday 01 February 14 21:41 GMT (UK)
Looking details on  2804 Pte James Sands  4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers Born Newry age 28 died 4 9 1914 at Belfast

Son of Mrs Mary Ann Sands Chapel Lane Armagh, on how he died?

Can any one help?

Joe
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Sunday 02 February 14 10:05 GMT (UK)
I was looking details from local Armagh people that's why I put it in the Ireland section??
Thanks for you help
Joe
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 02 February 14 22:51 GMT (UK)
Hi - It got moved to Armed Forces but I have now moved it back to Armagh for you!

Milly
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Sunday 02 February 14 23:05 GMT (UK)
Thanks Milly
It may help me get more details
Joe
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: gaffy on Monday 03 February 14 06:12 GMT (UK)


I was going to say to send off for the civil registration record for his death, but when I looked at the obvious candidate with that name in familysearch,  his death was registered in the quarter before your James.  In the absence of an exact name match, the closest I could see dying in that quarter of 1914 was a John Sands:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRVY-4YQ

James' service record gives no indication other than to confirm the date of death and  possibly suggest that it was fairly sudden, for example, he was training up to August at Carrickfergus and was even up for being drunk one night about 1 - 2 weeks before his death.
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Monday 03 February 14 09:29 GMT (UK)
Hello Gaffy
That confirms what I know so far, but need a wee bit more details to confirm his Armagh connection
Many thanks
Joe
www.armaghwarmemorial.com 
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 03 February 14 10:30 GMT (UK)
For reference here's the link to CWGC page for James Sands-
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/661054/SANDS,%20J

Have you checked local papers (both before and after death date) to see if there was any mention of him?

If this is the correct family in 1911 there were siblings- have you tried tracing descendants to see if they have any details?
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Tullyhappy/Cullentrough/307148
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: kingskerswell on Monday 03 February 14 11:28 GMT (UK)
Hi,
   In 1877 Michael Sands married Mary Doran and according to Family Search they had a son, James, in 1879. Michael can be found in the 1901 census as a widower living with the Doran Family. In 1905 Michael Sands married Mary Rice. Both marriages took place in Mullaghglass Roman Catholic Church.

Regards
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Monday 03 February 14 20:04 GMT (UK)
Thanks aghadowey
I do not think that is the same family but I will try and check further. The local Armagh papers have nothing but I will try the Belfast ones.
Thank you
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Monday 03 February 14 20:20 GMT (UK)
Hello kingskerswell
In the 1901 census I have Michael widower living with his family no mention of Doran? is that a typo?
 "Michael can be found in the 1901 census as a widower living with the Doran Family"
Many thanks for your help

Joe
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: kingskerswell on Monday 03 February 14 21:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Joe,
         There are two men named Michael Sands living in Co. Armagh and both are widowers in the 1901 census. I seem to have picked the wrong one. Sorry for that.

Regards
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Monday 03 February 14 21:21 GMT (UK)
kingskerswell
it is very confusing, trying to get at the truth
Joe
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 03 February 14 21:52 GMT (UK)
Thanks aghadowey
I do not think that is the same family but I will try and check further. The local Armagh papers have nothing but I will try the Belfast ones.
Thank you

Why not same family?
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: rathmore on Saturday 08 February 14 11:58 GMT (UK)
James Sands born newry, co down, enlisted Dundalk, co. louth, Residence Newry,

in th Princess Victoria's Royal Irish Fusiliers 4th Battalion

death 1914 at home

have you been in touch with the Royal Irish Fusiliers?



Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Tuesday 02 June 15 21:40 BST (UK)
Thanks Rathmore I am a Volunteer with the Royal Irish Fusiliers Museum here in Armagh so I have access to what records there are Joe
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: HughDaly on Monday 01 January 18 22:24 GMT (UK)
I have a James Sands born between in the townland of Tormore outside of Newry, around 1886-1900
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 02 January 18 00:28 GMT (UK)
It looks like James is indexed as John Sands as Gaffy suspected back in 2014.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05297/4472910.pdf

4 Sept 1914 at the Military Hospital, John Sands, Solider died from a fracture to the base of the scull and cardiac syncope
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Tuesday 02 January 18 22:36 GMT (UK)
Thanks Hugh and Sinann
Looks like this is John Sands where is townland of Tormore? Will look into it and let you know.I have John Sands on the Roll of Co Armagh WW1 casualties which can be seen in the Royal Irish Fusiliers Museum in Armagh 
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 03 January 18 00:18 GMT (UK)
Possibly Turmore

1889 James Sands, father James mother Isabella Boyd
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02478/1920069.pdf
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 03 January 18 00:50 GMT (UK)
Hi,
   In 1877 Michael Sands married Mary Doran and according to Family Search they had a son, James, in 1879. Michael can be found in the 1901 census as a widower living with the Doran Family. In 1905 Michael Sands married Mary Rice. Both marriages took place in Mullaghglass Roman Catholic Church.

Regards
Think this James Sands died in 1907
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05525/4548789.pdf
Title: Re: James Sands 4th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers
Post by: armagh20 on Wednesday 03 January 18 22:08 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sinann