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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: charlatan_s63 on Monday 03 February 14 17:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi, sorry this is a bit long but here goes.
I've been tracing my family history for just over a year but its my own surname 'Shaw' which is proving most difficult. Here's what I know as fact so far.
Grandfather - Jack Shaw [1924 - 1976]
Gt Grandfather - Samuel Shaw, 57 at death in 1949 so born c.1892 but this differs from his age given on his marriage certificate.
2xGt Grandfather - Richard Shaw, occupation miner.
I also found out that Samuel is buried in an unmarked grave in Bolton on Dearne, along with 'Richard Lewis' (father in law) who died in 1944 & 'George Henry Shaw' (Brother) who died in 1947.
So knowing the above I search the census and find a family with:
Richard Shaw [head] b.1862
Emily Taylor Shaw [wife]
Richard Shaw [son]
Sarah Shaw [daughter]
Benjamin Shaw [son]
Samuel Shaw [son] b.1892
George Shaw [son] b.1896
Hurbert Shaw [son]
Emily Shaw [daughter]
My next step was to order the Marriage certificate for Richard & Emily in order to find out Richard's Father name, but when the cert arrived for Richard / Emily dated 1888 it states 'illegitimate' for the grooms father. Hoping that this wasn't then end of the line, I went further back through the census and found a record in 1871 in Rowley Regis with the following:
Esther Shaw - age 39 & widowed
William shaw - age 18
Sally - age 14
Henry - age 12
Richard - age 10
George - age 6
Leah - age 1
then going back to 1861 I find the following record in Rowley Regis.
Henry Shaw - age 28 [head] - I think Henry may have died around 1865.
Esther - age 29 [Wife]
William - age 8
Sarah (not Sally) - age 4
Henry - age 2
Could this possibly be my Ancestors, and if Henry was Richards father then why put him as Illegitimate on the marriage document. ??? ???
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The census entries do look a good possibility for a match. Sally was a variant of the name Sarah.
It could be that Richard really was illegitimate (Henry having died or left the family before his conception) or that he mistakenly thought he was (Henry having died so early in his childhood that he never really knew him).
This looks the most likely birth registration for Richard:
Richard Shaw, Mar qtr 1862 Dudley 6c 8. (This birth is also indexed on WestmidlandsBMD under Rowley Regis subdistrict).
Why do you think Henry may have died "around 1865"? Have you traced a possible death for him on FreeBMD and/or www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk?
Added: Ah - I see that there are two Rowley Regis deaths for a Henry Shaw, in 1865 and 1866 respectively - so perhaps that's the source?
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Hi,
Henry was on the 1861 census but not 1871, where Esther Shaw is listed as widowed. So with Richard being born c.1862 i searched for deaths of Henry between 1862 / 1871 and found the one you mentioned above.
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If I were you, my next step would be to either order Richard's birth cert or, if possible, look up his baptism record. The birth cert may list Henry as the father and in that case it may be that Richard had no recollection of his dad having been so young when he died. If the cert shows no father at least you will know for sure. It would be worth following up as (unless I am mistaken in reading your details) Leah, born circa 1870 certainly isn't Henry's if he died in 1865/6 but she still apparently has the surname "Shaw".
Amy
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It's likely that I have henrys death wrong all I know is he was on the 1861 census but then on the following one Esther was listed as widowed. There are another 2 death entries in 1870 for a Henry Shaw that I can see on freebmd
1. Henry Shaw age 34 Stafford 6b 5, birth c.1836
2. Henry Shaw age 51 Wolstanton 6b 100, birth c.1819
but niether of these match up with the census in 1861 which give his age at 28, so probably born 1833
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I'd go for Richard's birth cert then. See what that throws up.
Amy
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Thanks for the advice trelawn1984 Ill try and locate the birth for richard Shaw .
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There is a Henry Shaw married Esther Round
Dudley St Thomas 1852
On the West Midlands BMD site
Chris
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Thanks for that chrissie, the maiden name might help me. I'll make a note for when my birth cert arrives :)
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Hi all,
I have now received a birth certificate for Richard Shaw [2x gt grandfather] born 1862, which lists his father as Henry Shaw and mother Esther Round just like mentioned above. The birth was in Rowley Regis, Stafford.
I'm getting myself in a right muddle now ??? Is this the same Richard who is listed as illegitimate on his marriage certificate?
Have I even got the right marriage for Richard Shaw :-\ I'm pretty sure that I have the correct Samuel Shaw [gt grandfather] as he is buried with a George Henry Shaw [brother, confirmed by his death certificate where Samuel was the informant] and Richard Lewis [father in law]. Samuel was married to Mary Alice Lewis.
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Something I've found often works when you're thinking there may be more than one possibility for a given name, is trace all the possibles and their families up and down the censuses to eliminate ones that are not the right one. I set out a grid with columns and at the side put the census years, and it's a lot easier than it sounds. often when you see several possibilities set out over the years, it leaps straight out at you which line is the right one.
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In 1891 and 1901, Richard names his birthplace as Cradley Heath. Cradley is in Stourbridge district, unlike Rowley Regis, which is in Dudley registration district.
If you are searching for Richard Shaw born in Rowley Regis, born c1862, you will find one who moved to Oldham and married Lucy Thomas. He is also a coal miner (just to complicate things), but it's possible that he is the son of Henry and Esther. He appears in 1891, but he may be the Richard Shaw whose death was registered in Oldham district in 1894 aged 32. Lucy is a widow in 1901.
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Now I am confused and doubting I have the right Richard :-\
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It looks as though you have it right as far back as Richard Shaw who married Emily Taylor.
Referring to my last post, I don't think that this man is the son of Henry and Esther.
Sometimes you will find children in a household using the surname of their mother's husband, even though they were born before the marriage, and are probably not his children.
Taking this into account, I searched 1871 and 1881 for a Richard born in Cradley Heath c1862, and found this one:
1881 census
Wallace Street, Kingswinford
William Homer head 40 labourer (Iron Works) Quarry Bank, Staffs.
Mary Ann Homer wife 40
Richard Homer son 18 Coal miner Cradley Heath, Staffs
Benjamin Homer son 16
Annie Homer daur 14
Sylvia Homer daur 11
Joseph Homer son 5
William Homer son 1
Mary Ann and all the children except William born at Cradley Heath.
This family in 1871 is not an exact match, but I suspect it's the same one.
Corngreaves Road, Rowley Regis
William Homer head 35 Chain maker Dudley, Worcs.
Mary Ann Homer wife 36
Richard Homer son 10
Benjamin Homer son 6
Nancy Homer daur 3
Silvia Homer daur 3m
All the family except William born in Rowley Regis.
The names of the children are a good match (Nancy being a pet name for Ann).
http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/ shows a marriage at St Mary, Kingswinford of William Homer and Mary A Shaw in 1864.
I can't find Mary Ann Shaw with any certainty in earlier censuses, nor a definite birth record for Richard, but I think this family is worth investigating further.
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Just noticed that the 1901 census page with Richard and Emily Taylor Shaw's household in Brierley Hill also shows William and Mary Ann Homer with their two youngest children, Joseph and William, presumably living not very far away.