RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: sandyjose on Tuesday 04 February 14 18:32 GMT (UK)
-
Is there anywhere you can find records for births and marriages before registration started? Also do churches have records of funerals,I know few churches had graveyards so would a service be held in a church prior to burial or was usually just a graveside service.
-
Not enough specific info to be helpful. start with Ros Davies Co Down website part of Rootsweb its free, look up churches [in Co Down] If you know your civil parish its easy thereafter open up s few and you will see ros has got the information on church records i.e. BM burials etc under each church. Not all records have survived. You might be surprised how many are on familysearch.com
-
Thanks for your reply.Do you mean,I haven't given enough detail? I have tried Ros Davis'site,I go back every so often to see if there are any updates.I have also looked at Family Search and anywhere else that might have info.What I'd like to find is my great x3 grandad's birth,marriage and death.He was James Gunning,a farmer in Co Down(I think) he must have been born in the 1780s,he married Jane Stewart approx 1807,his first son Samuel was born 1808,Where or when he or Jane died I haven't a clue.His son William was my great x2 grandad,I know he was born in 1823 but not where.I know his wife was Mary Snodden,but not where they married their first son was also Samuel born 1848.I don't know where William or Mary died or when,William was a Shoemaker.William's son Thomas was my great grandad,born in 1855,probably in Newtownards,I have his marriage and his death. I contacted 1st Presbyterian Church and they sent me a list of all the baptisms and marriages for members of my family,but nothing for either William or James,it was probably too far back.I would love info about James and William but I've run out of places to look.
-
In general, Presbyterian churches do not keep burial records (if they do it's probably only recently and sometimes not even a map of the graveyard exists). Presbyterians were often buried in Church of Ireland burying ground (because they had to pay tithes they were allowed burial there and many Presbyterian churches did not have their own ground) but they are not always recorded in the C. of I. burial register and any old headstones may not have been kept in place after a family stopped using the plot.
There's lots of information about Presbyterian records in ANTRIM RESOURCES at the top of the board and on PRONI's website www.proni.gov.uk
For the period you are looking at the mourners would have taken the body from the house to the churchyard (it's only in recent times that church funerals have become common).
-
Thanks for expanding your interest. I cant guide you to church records further, except to ask did you search the Cof I records in Newtownards, as well as the other presbyterian churches in the parish. Then I wondered about farmers who stay for many generations. {The Gunnings at Drumawhey in Newtownards had caught my attention.} Then I spotted a Gunning Whitla marriage in Newtownards. I have a Gracey Whitla/Whitley connection in Comber and Newtownards. I will check out my limited Whilta research and come back to you.
Have you looked at Genes Reunited if you are not a member, There are 18 matches for Gunning in Co Down before 1838. one or more of these tree owners might have uncovered some data related or unrelated to your line
Have you tried the free index for http://www.ancestryireland.com/ It has a Samuel son of James born Co Antrim1820 they also mention 5 entries in the Index to 1796 Flaxgrowers Bounty List, which I looked up elsewhere but no Gunning in Co Antrim or Down.
The same applies to http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie. It widens the search using the variant Guning. {I am uncertain about the Tithes for Co Down being complete}
Using www.lennonwylie.co.uk
In 1820 Custom House Quay Daniel Gunning, Clerk of Permits [Included because it’s a unique job}.
In 1843 There is a Gunning cabinet maker in Donaghadee but no Gunning in Newtownards
In 1852 there is a Robert Gunning living in Craigavad in Holywood parish
Have you tried the local history unit in the Library section of the SE Education and library Board Ballynahinch who are developing an index to Co Down journals and newspapers.
I wanted to get a feel of the distribution of the name so I used Griffiths valuation about 1860s which I am sure you know about, and found these parish locations for Gunning, so although scattered and not focused into one small area, the majority live around the Ards peninsula, all of which means to me they have probably lived there from before 1700.
ARDQUIN, BALLYPHILIP, BANGOR, CASTLEBOY, COMBER [I have encountered some references posted as Newtown Ards District], DONAGHADEE, GREY ABBEY, HOLYWOOD
MAGHERADROOL, NEWTOWN ARDS [I have encountered Donaghadee items posted as within Newtownards district. But not the reverse ]. SAINTFIELD
They also leased property in ARDQUIN, BALLYPHILIP, DONAGHADEE, HOLYWOOD
and MAGHERADROOL. Showing the family surname was more successful than many others
While I am in Griffiths the map section would show the homesteads boundaries. This is based upon the 1st rev of the 1st edition of the OS about 1860s, but the 1st edition 1830ish exists . Copy of town lands in SE library at Ballynahinch
In 1876 Landowners of Ireland, James was the only Gunning landowner in Co Down listed at Ballygrainey which is either in Bangor or Holywood civil parishes
PRONI has Probate of the Will of Eleanor Mary Gunning late of Drumawhey County Down Spinster who died 19 June 1904 granted at Belfast to Andrew Gunning Grocer etc Another will refers to a Gunning living in Balliggan Balliggin Inishargy 21; 62/65 4km SW of Ballywalter; I stopped looking therafter
So that’s my contribution apart from the Whitlal/Whitley marriage which if I find I will come back to you. Lets hope you break through the brickwalls
JimG
-
Did you know about Conlig
Ros Davies website has
Miss Mary SNODDEN SNOWDEN . Bangor & Newtownards wife of William Gunning of Conlig ; mother of Sarah b. 29 Jun & bpt. 7 Aug 1853 & David b. 6 Feb & bpt. 5 jun 1858 & Henry b. 27 jun & bpt. 10 Sep 1860 at 1st Newtownards Presbyterian Church PR
-
Many thanks for all the research you have done.Conlig is where I believe William Gunning lived before he married.James,I believe was a farmer,whether it was in Co Down,I'm not quite sure.Andrew Gunning,James' son was also a farmer,whether he farmed the same place as his father I don't know.
James had 4 sons Samuel who went to Glasgow,where he had a cab company,James,he also went to Glasgow,he was a labourer,,he returned to Ireland after his wife,Agnes ,died.William,my great x2 grandad stayed in Newtownards,working as a bootmaker.I have seen that he went to Glasgow but I can't find him on any census there.Andrew,I've already mentioned.
William had 5 sons,Samuel, I don't know much about,I think he went to Scotland,James,after marrying in Glasgow he went to New Zealand,Thomas,my great grandad he was a shoe maker,,he also went to New Zealand,leaving his family behind.(there's more to Thomas's story but I won't bore you)David,he stayed in Newtownards,he was a shoemaker until his death in 1921.Lastly there's Henry who I don't know anything about.
Thomas' son William James was my grandad and his son William McMillan(after his mother) was my father.
I have looked on many sites to find more information but,so far I,ve not found anything more,Any help or suggestions you have are very welcome
-
I have just gone back over the posts and I realize I haven't really answered the post that Ballyaltkilligan posted. Drumawhey seems to be where the family lived at some point.Yes I have looked on Genes Reunited,I am not a member but I can see anything that might be relevant.Re:flax growers,I doubt if that would apply as my ancestors weren't weavers,another branch of my family were.
The cabinate maker in Donaghadee,could well be related,as I know nothing about my great x3 grandad James,he could have had brothers who had sons,there's certainly a lot of Gunnings around Co Down,Co Antrim and Co Armagh I would think they originally came to Ireland with the Plantations in the 1600s.
I have a membership to Ancestry,but like many sites most of their records are from when registration began,getting back before registration began seems to be difficult.
-
Have you tried the index to marriages 1808-1845 for 1st Presbyterian Church, Bangor as their clergy helped start Conlig Presbyterian Church in 1845/46. Ros Davies gives details of the1st Presbyterian Church, Bangorin Main St., in Corporation townland in the south of TownBangor, [which helped start ] Conlig church to suit the expanding population.
Records in PRONI MIC1P/23; CR/3/4 - Baptisms, 1852-88 and 1895-1923; marriages, 1808- 1932; index to marriages, 1808-45; title deeds and leases, 1696-1868. No graveyard but memorials available; email me for a look-up;North of Ireland FHS http://www.nifhs.org has Baptisms 1839-1923; Marriages 1808-1932.
I am starting to assume you live in Glasgow and may never have visited Conlig. Its two and half miles eachway between Bangor and Newtownards. About 3 miles from Drumawhey From Belfast I cycled to the area in my early teens about 1949 with a chum and a hammer in my back pack as I had heard it was an old lead mine, and we decided to go mining! I believe the mine area is known as Whitespots. We soon got tired looking around at a rather drab, untidy overgrown place with some small brambles and weeds etc. I had rested my bike on a boulder that was about 2 foot square . I moved my bike onto the ground and sat on the boulder, chatting about girls. We decided to go home, I picked my hammer out and gave the boulder a smash in disappointment with the whole place. The boulder split apart with the two halves giving blinding flashes as the galena silver mirrored crystals caught the sun. We thought we had gone into fantasy land. It was dazzling for a few exciting seconds after I calmed down, I couldn’t pick up even a half of the boulder it was so heavy. I think I hunted for diamonds thinking they might be within it. The image stays with me. I ended up only knocking off a little corner and a day or two later made my first crystal radio set. Five years later I passed my year 2 Geology at university but failed at everything else and stupidly left university. They are planning to open part of this surface of the mine, as a tourist spot with a new shaft to the old mine. It’s close to the Somme museum.
Back to familyhistory, someone suggested to me the church minutes books might contain mention of a death or even burial of some of the congregation. As might just the estate papers of the area which is the Clandeboy Estate, perhaps naming their cobbler.
If I was following up GenesReunited, I would encourage you to contact the tree owners that contain Gunning in Co Down, in order of priority 1. Graham who knows Portaferry Gunnings back to 1755. 2. Helen who knows Gunnings in Co Down from 1804. Both of these and indeed the other Co Down contributors may have kept Gunning facts that isn’t their family.
Back in Griffiths, I notice Gunnion in Conlig townland as distinct to the Village itself, and would be worrying about a hearing or transcription error and then its possible another Gunning to your list. When I looked up your William Gunning he has a house office yard and small garden but his valuation is seven times higher than all his village neighbours! Outside the village in the townland its different with higher valuations. So I ask you why was his property so valued. I didnt look it up in the map section, which might give clues or worth a visit! ?
Is it time to admit that Gracey 'means' Cobbler in Scotland
Anyway in the meantime keep slugging at finding all possible pre-registration records JimG
-
Hi Jim,Thank you so much for all your work on my Gunnings. Yes I live in Glasgow and no I haven,t been to Ireland,I would very much like to visit,it depends on my health but if I can I'll try to get there this year I will.I love your story ,off to find treasure,and then finding it,just not in the way you expected.As for making a crystal radio set,I wouldn't know where to start,one of my cousins did geology at Glasgow uni,he then worked at Kelvingrove Museum and Art gallery until he retired.
My Dad regularly went to Ards as he had aunts and uncles there also a pile of cousins.These were all from his mother's side.She was Janet McMillan,born 1878 in Ards,her father was James,he was a weaver and her mother was Jane Belshaw.My dad's mother died in 1928,but he went to see his relatives as Janet had 6 siblings.I think there would have been some Gunnings in Ards but he never mentioned them.David Gunning,my dad's great uncle,was a shoe maker in Ards till he died in 1921,he had a large family but I don't know what happened to them.I did come across a Frank Gunning who lives in Conlig,his wife is Helen,no idea if he's related.
Up until Janet died she visited Ards and she took some of her offspring with her,I don't think she knew that her mother-in-law,Annie Gunning,nee McCafferty was still there.When her husband,William James died in 1920,she went to the parish for help as she had 6 kids and ,apart the eldest,James,who was 15,no-one was old enough to work.On the application she says that both her in-laws are in New Zealand!I found that Annie remarried in 1818 to John White in Ards,on the previous census she put that she was a widow!
There is one mystery I would loved solved,Annie(a)had 3 children before she married Thomas in 1877 in the Presbyterian Church in Greenwell St.William James(my grandad)in 1873,Easter(Esther) 1874 and Mary 1876.My grandad was baptized at the Greenwell st church,the other 2 I don't know where,on the 1881 census for Glasgow Easter isn't there.I have looked and looked but I can find no trace of her!
I'd like to know when Annie died but as it's after 1922 there don't seem to be any Ulster Records on line.
Why William had an expensive house, I've no idea.where was it? how did you find it?
I didn't know that Gracey,means a cobbler,I saw something in Ayrshire,where all cobblers had a face on the outside wall near the front door,there's still one house with this sign.
Nearly 2 years ago I contacted 1st Presbyterian Church to ask if they have records of BMD and I gave them the names I was interested in.The minister,Gordon,got back to me and said no bother.It transpired that an elderly man,John,is in charge of the parish records,Well the PC broke down,John said he'd sent me the records,which he hadn't,and so it went on for a year.Eventually,Gorden sent me a print out of all the records for my kin for Baptisms and marriages,which he could have done at the beginning.I'm not complaining,I thought it was funny but I was disappointed at just a print out as when I requested a marriage entry from another church I got a copy of the entry in the book.Gordon said that if I wanted the originals I would have to go in person having made an appointment first.
I won't bore you any more! I'll investigate the sites you have given me and see what I can find.
Thanks again Susan
-
from Griffiths Valuation Record Information
Tenant
Family Name 1 GUNNING
Forename 1 WILLIAM
Landlord
Family Name 2 ADAIR
Forename 2 JAMES
Location
County DOWN
Barony ARDS, LOWER
Union NEWTOWN ARDS
Parish BANGOR
Townland CONLIG
Place Name CONLIG, VILLAGE OF
Place Type OTHER
Publication Details
Position on Page 41
Printing Date 1863
Act 15&16
Sheet Number 2,6
Map Reference 30 43
Its this last line that’s all important Its in the plot area 30 within the townland of Conligwhich must have another map showing subdivision 43. I have gone on to Griffiths valuation website. I can find Conlig and see the rough shape of terraced houses etc at full magnification. So I think its only viewable on some other map which will show subdivision 43 . can any one help Susan please
-
Thanks for finding that info,I don't know where you can find a map of properties but there must be one somewhere.You probably know more about where to look than I do but I will see what I can do.
-
I must apologize for not getting back to anyone before now.I spent most of April in hospital,prior to that I didn't realize how ill I was but I wasn't taking things in.I have now made a note of all the sites that have been suggested and I will work through them to see what I can find.Hopefully I can fill in a few gaps.Will report back soon.
-
Hi Jim,Today I was looking at Genes Reunited and I saw both Helen and Graham have records that could be relevant to my family.However I can't send them messages without subscribing.I haven't got round to looking at other sites you suggested yet.I looked for other names in my family in Ards ie Belshaw,there were a few,McCafferty a couple,McRobert one and McMillan two.
I'll look at the other sites and see what I find.Susan
-
hi Susan, Because you are or meant to be recuperating, I recap below your family tree. Is this correct enough. Any clues where the townland relatives lived should help. At the moment all I have is the Conlig link, and possibly Newtownards but no address as yet noted by you. Staying on Conlig and back to Griffiths valuation where a William Gunning is listed with a special house , the most highly valued inside Conlig village. The Griffiths map doesn’t have the scale to show the individual house within the compact village, one might guess that if was a a shoe or bootmaker his premise might include workshop areas. Or if he is a descendant of a successful farmer it could be a farmhouse building on the outer edge of the village, the only possible connection here is about ½ a mile away is 2 acres of land owned by a William Gunnion with no buildings on it. I sense that Gunnion and Gunning are connected as they always crop up in the same area. Its how you say it and hear it etc. so it could be the same person. Other info about Griffiths valuation it has additions available at PRONI and you should be able to trace what happens to the house.
rechecking Wm G in Conlig ie bangor parish records in Griffiths the map reference 30 43 means within the village itself Map ref 14 is William Gunnion leasing from Margaret Duff two acres in the townland Its position is on an easterly corner squeezed between Balloo townland in Bangor parish and Drumirk townland in Newtownards parish
You mention across a Frank Gunning who lives in Conlig ,his wife is Helen, no idea if he's related. get writing to them with your tree if you wish. I couldn’t find any Gunning living in Conlig via the BT white pages for residents. Someone who has been on the net and remembers Conlig well is Ron ballard see www.rootschat.com/forum/index. php?topic=481603.msg3403203#msg3403203 You could try a message on Rootschat under Conlig heading asking him to help or perhaps try a private message.
1.James Gunning x3 grandad,a farmer babt 1780s,m Jane Stewart approx 1807,
more info wanted?? How do know about James
children
1.2 Samuel was born 1808, went to Glasow more info wanted??
1.3 James no b date went to Glasgow and returned after his wife Agnes died
1.4 Andrew no b date a farmer location unknown
1.5 William x2 grandad,b 1823 shoemaker m Mary Snodden, or Snowden m 1848 or before suggest search for Snodden background ie location
William definitely of Conlig ie first location so far , but he stayed in Newtownards?? area? He also visited Glasgow remember Gunnion variant spelling and local parish is Bangor! His house is valued at £7
Children
1.5.1 Samuel born 1848. more info wanted?? Went to Scotland
1.5.2 James married in glasgow then NZ Must have influenced Thomas or viceversa re NZ
1.5.3 Sarah1853
1.5.4.Thomas was my great or x1 grandad, born in 1855,probably in Newtownards,I have his marriage and his death. I contacted 1st Presbyterian Church and they sent me a list of all the baptisms and marriages for members of my family, but nothing for either William or James Are there townlands or addresses mentioned Thomas went to NZ leaving Janet and family behind
children
1.5.4.1 William James Your granddad m Janet McMillan
1.5.4.1.1 William McMillan Gunning your father
1.5.5 David 1858 stayed
1.5.6 Henry 1860 no info at all
Other things found on the map includes there is Presbyterian meeting house in Conlig and Baptists and a national school back to ros davies.
Conlig Presbyterian Church
2km S of Bangor ,in the village
This congregation was an offshoot of 1st Bangor as the population was expanding. The first minister 24 Feb 1846. , built 1848 and serviced the lead miners in the area.
Records from 1845; PRONI MIC1P/94- Baptisms, 1845-1919; marriages, 1850-1935; committee minutes, 1848-1937; session and committee minutes, with lists of communicants, 1848- 1956; on MIC1P/230/6- Marriage notices, 1845-1941.
graveyard attached, only one pre- 1900 gravestone for John Sinclair in UHF Vol 17; email me for a gravestone look-up
For images of conlig try http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=conlig&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=777&bih=525
Must stop now JimG
-
Hi Jim,Many thanks for your interest and giving me further places to research.I found out about James Gunning though a distant cousin who now lives in Tasmania.Her great x2 grandad was Samuel Gunning brother of William my great x2 grandad.Another lady who contacted me is Great granddaughter of James Gunning,brother of Thomas,who went to NZ after marrying Jessie Hill in Glasgow.
James and Jane's children
Samuel b 1808,he went to Glasgow to start a cab co which was carried on by his son.His 1st wife was Mary McCulloch,when she died he married Harriet Dobbin
Eliza 1810 she married Robert McGimpsey in 1848 and died in 1904
James 1814,he married Agnes McClutcheon1845,they went to Glasgow where he was a labourer. Agnes died in Glasgow and is buried with a daughter Elizabeth,in the Glasgow Necropolis.James went back to Ards,he died in 1896 and he's buried in Movilla.
Andrew 1820 he married Jane Mcwhirk 1849,he was a farmer,they had 10 children,not sure when Jane died,Andrew died 1902,I think he's buried in Ards in Movilla.
Agnes 1825,she married John Downey 1851,she died the same year,childbirth?
Sarah 1827,she married John McIllian 1847 no more info
William 1823,married Mary Snodden ? died ?Their children.
Samuel 1848 married Catherine McKenna1868 they went to Glasgow,no more info.
Sarah 1853 married James Gregory 1872,died 1873 childbirth.
James 1854 married Jessie Hill in Glasgow 172 left for NZ James died 1911
Thomas 1856,married Anna McCafferty 1877 went to NZ,married Mary Brown 1902,died 1925 Dunedin.
David 1858 married Marta Grey 1877,worked as a shoemaker till his death 1921
Henry 1860 married a Lizzie? no more info
That is all the info I have on the Gunning Family except for my grandad and his sister.
Does that answer any of your questions?
I looked on the Griffith Valuations and saw that William's house is bigger than the others,how can I find out what happened to it? I can't work out what the address would have been.
I will look at Gunnion,I have come across other family members whose names were mis spelt.
Will get back to you soon Susan
-
Susan, I haven’t searched these revision notes for Griffiths before, but the {Map}references as listed for Wm Gunning was 30:43 ie 30 for the village followed by property ref 43 so I get started
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/val12b.htm
then I chose the first conlig village revision which was 1883 to 1893, this opened a window with a contents page which showed Conlig village was p126 to p136
Current PRONI Reference: VAL/12/B/23/7G (1883 - 1893)
Conlig starts on p126 and I am looking for ref 30;43 I find 43 and 44 are now combined Landlord is still James Adair, the previous tenant is not Gunning but Samuel Gill and he has been crossed out and replaced with John Nicholl the description says Public added in red, then then House shop office and small garden, I think the word SHOP is the past connection to WmGunning business, so that avenue is closed off ie Wm Gunning must have died , moved etc between 1863 and 1883. I am inclined to think his house must have been on the east side of the village on the main road.
I looked for Gunnion outside the village at No 14 its first revision was in 1871 and found the first additional note had that name crossed out and someone called “Jane Cass? Takes over and the land lord changes to Lowry who owns a lot so that’s that closed off.
Summing up: I feel disappointed at these revision books, and am having one last look at Griffiths original no no more clues
Overall conclusions If William and Mary died in Conlig, they may have been buried there in the presbyterian church but no mention found by me of a graveyard, and often Presbyterians were buried in the nearest Cof I that might be Newtownards but strictly should be Bangor. Ros Davies says there is a graveyard at Conlig PC but only one pre 1900 tombstone recorded, The church needs to be asked if there is a burial book, nearby is the Conlig Baptist church but without graveyard. Its Wm Gunning birthplace and ancestors that seem to be illusive. Other than perhaps a mention in some landlords estate papers I don’t where else to look.
I think that is me exhausted! I must hope others will join in to help you onwards,
so its goodbye JimG
-
Many thanks for all your help,I know William was dead by 1877 as it says deceased on Thomas' marriage entry. You have done so much in tracing my family,it gives me an idea of their lives.If you come across anything in the future,let me know.Take care Susan
-
Hello Sandy. Eliza Gunning I had also come across in my search for details on My G-G Grandfather Robert McGimpsey. It is very difficult to find any details that can be confirmed on him but it appears he married three times & I think Eliza was wife No.2 Do you have any more details?
Note: In most search sites Roberts surname is spelt Mcjimpsey. It became McGimpsey with his son David,s family.
Cheers, David McGimpsey
-
Hi David,Eliza Gunning and Robert McGimpsey married in 1848,Eliza was 38 so she could have been his last wife as she lived until 1904. I don't know if there were any children between them or who Robert was married to before.I will try and find out.Eliza was my great x2 grandad,William's sister.
Do you know if they stayed in Ireland or came to Glasgow as at least 2 of Eliza's brothers did?
I'll get back to you with whatever I find.
Take care Susan
-
Hi,
Not sure if this helps but I can find the marriage of Robert McGimpsey to Elizabeth GUNNION in St. Marks Church of Ireland, Newtownards on 4 Nov 1848. The fathers' names were Thomas McGimpsey and James Gunnion.
Regards
-
Thanks that shows the exact date of the marriage.Gunning often gets mispelt,I will see what I can find,been answering e-mails but finished now.
-
Hi David,I've been looking for Robert McGimpsey and so far I have found that Robert was born abt 1826,that would make Eliza older than I thought as I don't think there would be 16 years difference in their ages.They married in 1848,as you said.I next have Robert on the 1911 census,in Co Down(need to look again to see where)he is a widower,living with 4 children,William 32,Andrew 24,Charlotte 22 and Hugh 19. Seems he died in 1912,aged 84.
I can't find Robert and Eliza on the 1901 census,which is strange as Eliza died in 1904.I'll keep looking,maybe they were on their hols when the census was taken!!!
What was your father's name and your grandad? Sometimes it's easier to work backwards.Where abouts in the world are you? I'm in Glasgow,I've found some relatives though the males in my tree but not through a female but sadly most of them died in childbirth as happened with Eliza's 2 sisters Agnes and Sarah.
Will get back to you soon Susan
.
-
Good morning Susan. So great to get your reply. There are a lot of Robert Mcjimpsey (McGimpsey) recorded in Northern Ireland. I am sure there was a lot of drifting back & forth between there & Scotland. I live in New Zealand. Born & raised here.
Father:--Samuel Robert. Born in New Zealand.
Grandfather:-- Robert John. Born 17/02/1871. Came to New Zealand from Donaghadee Northern Ireland with his sister Eleanor & brother David. Another sister Sarah stayed behind.
Great Grandfather:-- David John born 1838. Married Catherine Copland 12/11/1859. Settled in Donaghadee.
Great Great Grandfather:-- Robert Mcjimpsey (McGimpsey) of Drumawhey Northern Ireland
The family church was Ballyblack 1st Presbyterian.
Cheers,
David
-
Hi,It seems that New Zealand attracted a couple of my ancestors.Eliza's father was James Gunning a farmer. There ware 3 girls,Eliza,Agnes and Sarah,both the later died in childbirth.There were 4 boys,Samuel,James Andrew and William.William was my great x2 grandad.He had 5 sons and 1 daughter who also died in childbirth.Drumawhey is where William lived,he was a shoemaker.His son James 1854-1912,married in Glasgow then went to New Zealand where he also worked as a shoe maker,He had about 10 children,My great grandad,Thomas 1856-1925,also a shoe maker,was a bit of a character.His wife had 3 children before they married in 1877,by 1881 the family were living in Glasgow,minus 1 child that I don't know what happened to .Thomas,also went to New Zealand,leaving his family behind in Scotland.I think it would have been sometime in the 1880s as he's on the censuses for Dunedin and also on the Glasgow census but I think his wife said he was there to"save face".In 1901 he married again,he died in 1925.
I found Robert on the 1911 census for Ireland with 4 of his children,he was a widower.I can't find him on the 1901 census which is strange.He was a farmer near Donaghadee.As far as I can see he only married once,the dates for Eliza must be wrong,another thing I'll check.
There's a possibility that Eliza wasn't James' daughter but the daughter of another Gunning.I had the name McGimpsey for her long before I knew about you.
I've made a note of your relatives,if thre's anything I can help with researching just let me know.
Where in NZ are you? Keep in touch.
Take care Susan
-
Wow. Interesting stuff. Here is some info for you:--
Thomas Begg Gunning
Age 70
Died 3rd August 1925
Last address 48 Bay View Road Dunedin
Cemetery Andersons Bay
Block 97 plot 51
Native of Ireland--Years in New Zealand 36
Buried in same plot:-- Mary Gunning Age 85 Died 8th July 1948
As you say we still don't know for sure if Eliza and my g-g Robert were married. This info I have sent you may be of help to find the answer.
Cheers, David
I live in Christchurch.
-
Thanks David for the info,it's a pity the grave doesn't have a headstone.I think Thomas' wife Mary,had a daughter from a previous marriage,might be an idea to try and trace her family.Would be just out of interest as they are not related at all.
Robert and Eliza were married in 1848 at a Church of Ireland Church,don't know why there as they were Presbyterians? I'll see if I can find anything else of interest.
Susan
-
Hi,
It was usual to get married in the brides church and then to follow the husband's religion so the bride may have been Church of Ireland and after marriage followed her husband's religion.
Regards
-
Hi Susan,
Eliza was born c1810. Father was James Gunning. Go to Microsoft search engine Bing. Enter name Eliza Gunning. Lots of info.
Cheers,
David
-
In doing the family tree I have found that up to the mid 1800.s the spelling of surnames could vary.
In the case of my g-g grandfather we have Gimpsey & Jimpsey & McGimpsey. His wife surname varied between Gunnion & Gunning. However I have now been able to sort things out. Robert McGimpsey was born 1808. Eiza Gunnion 1810. They married in a civil ceremony 4th November 1848. Eliza died 18th January 1903. I have not been able to confirm yet when Robert died. There is recorded family prior to the marriage & yet to sort out if the mother was Eliza or someone else.
Regards,
David
-
JimG. In the chats you have had with Susan you were informed James Gunning married Jane Stewart & that there daughter Eliza married Robert McGimpsey in 1848. Robert was my g g grandfather and this was his second marriage. A nephew of his, also named Robert arrived in New Zealand 1893 and became my grandfather.
David McGimpsey
(*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
-
David
The world is small, I was intrigued with your phrase ‘became my grandfather’.
that nephew the Robert McGimpsey you mention, that arrived in New Zealand, later lived as an Engineer in Otiake Otago..{Omarama is in the Waitaki District, in the historic Province of Otago South Island New Zealand.} he appears to been unmarried and without children, he made his Will while under military service in 27 August 1914 died about 20 September 1916 He is buried at Buried at BULLS ROAD CEMETERY, FLERSLocation: Somme, France Number of casualties: 475 Cemetery/memorial reference: III. F. 23.
with further information Aged 23 New Zealand Engineers Son of James and Elizabeth J. McGimpsey, of Otioke, Oamaru, New Zealand. see https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/193865/mcgimpsey,-robert/.. he is further commemorated inhis published letters
At the time of his death he was a Sapper No4/427 in the New Zealand Expeditionary Force.
The probate was completed 15th June 1918 he left everything to a Thomas McGimpsey, youngest son of James McGimpsey a farmer also in Omarama is in the Waitaki District, in the historic Province of Otago
see family search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-892C-8G4B?i=140&cc=1865481
changing to more recent time I dont know if you have seen
in 28 July 2008 Ian Robert McGimpsey started a query for his ancestry New Zealand McGimpseys he left this email, and had replies
My GGF was James McGimpsey (Born 1850 Co Down, Ireland Died 25 Feb 1921 [was also in WW1 NZ Infantry] Otiake, North Otago, New Zealand). Married 4 Feb 1885 Otiake, North Otago to Eliza Jane McCone Born 12 Nov 1868 Carrickfergus, Co Antrim, Ireland.
My GF was William James (B 31Dec1885 Otiake, North Otago D 10Oct1970 Owaka, South Otago) M 8Apr1909 Kurow, North Otago to Robina Mary Irvine (B 26Jan1892 D May1953).
My Father Robert McGimpsey (B Oamaru, North Otago 12Mar1915 D Oamaru 4Jul2006)M Margaret Lindsay Fullerton (B 13Jan1918) I am Ian Robert McGimpsey (B 15Sep1955 Kurow, North Otago).
lest we forget
-
I needed to look up my geography. Drumawhy [Drumawhey] townland is the northern of three townlands stretching eastwards within Newtownards civil parish with a road going through it towards Millisle, there is another road going to Donaghadee above this road. its adjoining townland in the next parish ie Donaghadee is Ballyhay. see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/MAPS/NewtownardsTownlands.htm ; http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/MAPS/DonaghadeeTownlands.htm ; and http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/MAPS/CoDownParishes.htm
Sadly Newtownards tithes records except for Ballyskeaugh townland appear to be missing from http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/newtownards-parish.php#.Wg_wsLacb9M. ie I cant find any tithe entry for Drumawhy.
However Donaghadee tithes do exist
see http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/donaghadee-parish.php#.Wg_yZbacb9M
Magimpsey, John Townland: Ballyhay Year: 1834
Magimpsey, John Townland: Ballyvester Year: 1834
Magimpsey, Josh. Townland: Ballyraer Year: 1834
Magimpsey, Wm. Townland: Sloanestown Year: 1834
McGimpsy, John Townland: Ballyhay Year: 1834
So Your Great Great Great Grandfather:--could be John McGimpsy or Magimpsey from the entry in the Tithes Applotment Books 1823-1837 based upon the work of the Irish Genealogy Hub. The relevant original books are in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) Belfast
A volunteer looker upper named jaykim see www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=68312.0
might look up the one line entry in the original
I went back to Griffiths 1863 map ref 34 and 35 in Ballyhay is for John McJempsey no 34 Cottiers house and land 5 acres and house valued at ten shillings pa. No35 House office and land has 15 acres and house valued at £1 ten shillings pa above average using patience you can look up the map see plots 34&35 and then switch to modern google for ballyhay road, switch to satellite and compare existing buildings to what was on old unusually I could find street scenes of road. Still interesting the cattle or sheep are there.
hoping something is new for you