RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: RedMystic on Monday 10 February 14 15:41 GMT (UK)
-
Hi Chatters,
First, I'll admit I'm no expert on ScotlandsPeople, but I have been searching for death records there in vain & wasting $, possibly because I'm not searching correctly. ??? ::) ;D
I'm hoping that you can give me some help on how to find death records for the children I've marked in bold. (I have figured out that I can't find birth records for them as the records are too old. ;))
Here is the 1841 census transcript for Garyfluich, South Uist.
Donald Macdonald 45
Jane Macdonald 35 (nee MacPherson)
Angus Macdonald 13
Peggy Macdonald 12
Marine Macdonald 9 (this should read Marion)
Mary Macdonald 4
Lauchlin Macdonald 2
Rachael Macdonald 6 Mo
And in 1851 for Ardnamona, south Uist Lauchlin and Rachael have disappeared, but I have one more child, Margaret, that I can't see by 1861.
Donald M Donald 56
Jane M Donald 47
Rodk M Donald 23
Angus M Donald 21
Margt M Donald 20
Marion M Donald 18
Mary M Donald 14
Margt M Donald 9
Ewen M Donald 7
Christian M Donald 5
Can someone please give me some help to determine what happened to: Lauchlin, Rachel, and Margaret? I'm not afraid to use my own SP credits, but I'm at my wit's end searching for these missing children.
Thanks in advance for any assistance that can be provided. :)
-
My next thought is that perhaps because Lauchlin and Rachel MAY have died before 1851, there are no records available? Is that a possibility? ??? :P
That shouldn't, however, be a problem for Margaret who, if she died, did so between 1851 & 1861 (unless she died before 1855) - is that correct logic? ::)
-
Nearly correct logic ;D
Official registration didn't start in Scotland till 1855 so assuming Lauchlin and Rachael died between 1841 and 1851 you are at the mercy of the parish registers. If Margaret also died before 1855 you have the same problem.
Scotlands People do have (most of) the old parish registers but I believe the death records are the least complete of the lot in that what is recorded is not necessarily the death but the rent of the cloth to cover the coffin at the funeral. The search for the parish records is a separate option to the "official" records on the web site.
I know you can sometimes trace deaths through cemetery records or headstone inscriptions but I wouldn't know the details for this area.
-
Thank you for such a quick response ITBookworm (love the handle, by-the-way).
On the cemetery front, I was in the Nunton cemetery (Benbecula) when I visited Scotland in 2011. I took photos of EVERY headstone (yes obsessive) so if anyone is looking for images, I have them. LOL However, it was after I came back that I learned that the mother of this family (Jane MacDonald (nee MacPherson)) was buried on North Uist. Heavy sigh - didn't go to any cemeteries there. (I've never figured out where father, Donald MacDonald) is buried. ::) >:( ;D Some of the surviving sons ended up in Torlum / Lionaceit by the end of the 1870s (hence the Nunton graveyard search). The bottomline is, I wouldn't know where to start looking for headstones for these babes & the damp weather does a real number on headstone durability.
You have, however, given me a possible lead re the parish records. I'll see if I can muddle my way through those. :P ;D
Thanks again.
-
South Uist had a predominately Catholic population whereas North Uist had a mainly Protestant population, I believe.
There are also Catholic Church BMD's to search on Scotlands People. Good luck with your research :)
Looby :)
-
Thank you loobylooayr.
The mother from this family was definitely Protestant. If the father was Catholic before their marriage (he was from S Uist / she from N Uist) he converted. So it likely means the children were brought up Protestant.
I can't say that for certain though. ::) ;D My gg grandfather (son of this couple) came to Canada in 1883 - Protestant. His sister came to Canada in 1884 - Catholic. :P
-
Just noticed that the family have 2 daughters called Margt (Margaret) one of 20 and one of 9. I wonder how often that happened ???
-
Funny you noticed that at it was to be my next request for assistance. ;D The elder daughter went by Peggy / Peigi / Margaret. I can't find her death date either. Any help would be great.
She married Angus MacDonald, likely before 1854. (Their first son was born & died in 1854 so I'm assuming they were married by then). I last see the family in Stoneybridge in 1881. A few of their sons were still there in 1891. I can't, for the life of me, find a death for Peggy / Peigi / Margaret Macdonald (nee MacDonald) with mother Jane MacPherson.
This is the family in 1881 Stoneybridge
Angus MacDonald 52
Margret MacDonald 49
Archibald MacDonald 24
John MacDonald 23
Marion MacDonald 14
Donald MacDonald 12
Christina MacDonald 7
Can anyone please help me with finding a death date for the mum in this family?
-
Yes, I only pointed that out re. Catholic records as something similar happened to me (although in Wigtownshire -lots of Irish immigrants :P ). :P
I had searched for births & marriages for years presuming the family to have been Protestant only to discover that 11 children were baptised in Catholic Church and six kept that faith when they married. The rest including my gg grandmother changed to Protestant when she married.
Looby :)
-
Do you know when Angus, her husband dies?Just wondering if he is a widower on his death cert. or if Margaret/Peggy is recorded as alive.
Looby :)
-
Sorry - I have NOTHING on Angus, net even his parents as I don't have a wedding record. :P He appears to be gone by 1891 as well.
-
I'm not having any luck so far finding Margaret.
Is there a possibility that the couple moved away by 1891. :-\ I know it seems unlikely given that the couple lived on South Uist all their lives but it's not impossible.
Another avenue to consider while trying to establish Margaret and Angus's dates of death is their children's marriage certs. It should be recorded if the parent/s are deceased by the time of the wedding. This could narrow your search
-
Thanks for the advice loobylooayr.
The best I can find is that 2nd son John married in 1883 & both parents were still alive at that point. I can't find marriage for the younger son, Donald, or for any of the daughters so I've drawn another blank.
Maybe, as you suggest, Angus and Margaret/Peggy moved away but one would think that the family that remained on Benbecula would have known something of them. They just don't. Two sons of Angus & Margaret/Peggy remained in Stoneybridge & died there early in the 1900s. Very strange. :-\ ::)
Oh well, perhaps I'll let the branch grow cold for another few months & something miraculous will pop out at me.
Thanks again. :)
-
I got an email this morning that ScotlandsPeople have added the 1885 valuation rolls on-line as of today. I haven't used these particularly but it might be worth a look to see who you can find? As far as I know it should show the property, who owns it and the head of the family currently resident. It probably won't list the children but you might be able find the parents.
-
Thank you ITBookworm, :)
These are the strangest people. I can't find deaths for Margaret/Peggy and husband Angus, but some of their children are equally invisible. ??? It's quite apparent that their sons Archibald (d 1919 in Stoneybridge; parents deceased) & John both married, had children & stayed in Stoneybridge. I can't find their son Donald after he was witness at his brother's 1883 marriage, but he could have departed I suppose.
However, the daughters all disappear between census periods with no apparent death records or marriage records on SP.
Jane b1862 (twin) not with family in 1881 census; no death or marriage apparent on SP
Margaret b1862 (twin) not with family in 1871 census; no death or marriage apparent on SP
Ann b1865 not with family in 1871 census; no death or marriage apparent on SP
Marion b1867 not with brothers in 1901 census; no death or marriage apparent on SP
Christy or Christina b1874; not with family in 1891 census; no death or marriage apparent on SP
I have to wonder, is there a problem with Stoneybridge records that so many are invisible? ??? ::) :P ;D
-
Funny you noticed that at it was to be my next request for assistance. ;D The elder daughter went by Peggy / Peigi / Margaret. I can't find her death date either. Any help would be great.
She married Angus MacDonald, likely before 1854. (Their first son was born & died in 1854 so I'm assuming they were married by then). I last see the family in Stoneybridge in 1881. A few of their sons were still there in 1891. I can't, for the life of me, find a death for Peggy / Peigi / Margaret Macdonald (nee MacDonald) with mother Jane MacPherson.
This is the family in 1881 Stoneybridge
Angus MacDonald 52
Margret MacDonald 49
Archibald MacDonald 24
John MacDonald 23
Marion MacDonald 14
Donald MacDonald 12
Christina MacDonald 7
Can anyone please help me with finding a death date for the mum in this family?
1891 Stoneybridge (wonder if this is son John above (23) now married) ? Naming pattern seems to fit :-/
John Macdonald Head M 33 Cottar South Uist Inverness-shire G&E
Peggy Macdonald Wife M 30 South Uist Inverness-shire G
John Macdonald Son 7 Scholar South Uist Inverness-shire G
Peggy Macdonald Dau 3 South Uist Inverness-shire G
Angus Macdonald Son 1 South Uist Inverness-shire
1891 - Could this be son Archibald above (24) ?
Archibald Macdonald Head M 35 Crofter South Uist Inverness-shire G
Ann Macdonald Wife M 30 South Uist Inverness-shire G
Marion Macdonald Sister U 24 General Servant South Uist Inverness-shire G
Margaret Macdonald Dau 10m South Uist Inverness-shire
Regards,
Anne Marie
-
Thank you very much for the look-up Anne Marie. :) I should have linked this post to the new one specifically for the children of Margaret/Peggy/Peigi MacDonald & Angus MacDonald. My apologies.
The couple appear to have had 15 children, but only 5 appear to have served to adulthood. I'm able to track sons Archibald & John as you so ably found :-*, but loose son Donald after 1884 (informant on father's death record), daughter Marion (with her brother Archibald in 1901 census), and daughter Christy (after 1889 when she witnessed her brother's marriage).
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=677400.0
-
The couple appear to have had 15 children, but only 5 appear to have served to adulthood. I'm able to track sons Archibald & John as you so ably found :-*, but loose son Donald after 1884 (informant on father's death record), daughter Marion (with her brother Archibald in 1901 census), and daughter Christy (after 1889 when she witnessed her brother's marriage).
Bornish - 1891 This may be Christina/Christy age 17 just along the road from Stoneybridge ? :-)
BORNISH
John Mackintosh Head U 32 R. C. Clergyman Lochaber Inverness-shire G&E Bornish Chapel
Jessie Mackintosh Sister U 25 Lochaber Inverness-shire G&E
Annie Mackintosh Sister U 27 Lochaber Inverness-shire G&E
Neil Mackinnon Visitor U 32 Phys & Surgeon Strath Inverness-shire G&E
Donald Macintyre Servant M 54 Farm Servant South Uist Inverness-shire G
Christina Macdonald Servant U 17 Housemaid South Uist Inverness-shire G&E
Roderick Macintyre Servant U 18 Farm Servant South Uist Inverness-shire G
Anne Marie
P.S. It's at Bornish Chapel which would be St. Mary's
-
Fantastic Anne Marie. Thank you. :-* I didn't know that Bornish was that close to Stoneybridge. I'll bet your right!!! :)
-
. one - handy wee tool :-)
-
1891 - Ardkenneth (Still within the Howmore reg. district)
May be Donald MacDonald (25) ?
Angus Macrae Head U 32 R.C. Clergyman Kiltarlity Inverness-shire G&E
Kate Macfarlane Servant U 27 Housekeeper South Uist Inverness-shire G
Marion Maclellan Servant U 27 Gen. Serv. Dom. South Uist Inverness-shire G
Donald Macdonald Servant 25 Ag. Lab. South Uist Inverness-shire G
Henry Fitzgerald Boarder 15 Scholar France G&E British Subject
Anne Marie
P.S. That will be St. Michael's
-
Thank you Anne Marie. :-*
I'm still searching for the record for John MacKintosh born Lochaber, clergyman of Bornish Chapel. You found him so he has to be here for me too! Sheesh! :P
-
Henry Fitzgerald would be an easier option I think ?
Sorry, wrong chapel :-)
-
1891 - Ardkenneth (Still within the Howmore reg. district)
May be Donald MacDonald (25) ?
I found the Ardkenneth record, no problem. ::) ;D Donald's age is off by a few years, but it's a definite possibility. Thanks again.
Back to looking for Christina's 1891 record as soon as the dog has her walk. Many thanks for your help. :)
-
Thanks very much once again Anne Marie. I came back from my walk with cobwebs blown out of my head & found Christina at Bornish. ::);D
-
Is that everyone accounted for now then ?
Just glad to be of help :-)
Anne Marie
-
Thanks very much for your directions. :)
Now I'll start working on trying to find marriages for Marion and Christy - looked already for marriages and/or deaths to no avail but I've bought more SP credits to give it another go. ;) ;D
I have figured out that one of John's sons died in France in 1914. :'( Is there a place to access free attestation papers and/or military papers for Scotland? ???
-
Mystic,
If you post details I will see if I can locate the attestation papers. No free sites for them I'm afraid. These might be of interest ?:
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic4204.html
http://www.snwm.org/
http://www.warmemorials.org/links-scotland/
I found a note of the marriage for Jane MacPherson of Paiblesgarry, North Uist & Donald MacDonald of Stilligarry, South Uist who were married 1825 in North Uist :-)
Update: Married 27 Jan 1825 in Kilmuir, N/Uist. Jane/Jean's father was Angus & Donald's father was Roderick.
It is possible if you search her death with letter "J" only, you might find her ?
Have you thought of putting a request up for someone to get a photo of the gravestone in the cemetery ?
Anne Marie
-
I forgot to post this:-
http://www.cwgc.org/
Anne Marie
-
Mystic,
If you post details I will see if I can locate the attestation papers. No free sites for them I'm afraid. These might be of interest ?:
I found a note of the marriage for Jane MacPherson of Paiblesgarry, North Uist & Donald MacDonald of Stilligarry, South Uist who were married 1825 in North Uist :-)
Update: Married 27 Jan 1825 in Kilmuir, N/Uist. Jane/Jean's father was Angus & Donald's father was Roderick.
It is possible if you search her death with letter "J" only, you might find her ?
Have you thought of putting a request up for someone to get a photo of the gravestone in the cemetery ?
Anne Marie
Thanks for the links Anne Marie. I'll look into those shortly. :)
The marriage for Jane MacPherson & Donald MacDonald is for the parents of Peggy/Margaret. You have nailed their fathers too. I have death records for both of them. Though I don't know where Donald was buried, I do know where Jane was. While she lived her entire married life on South Uist where Donald was from, her body was taken back to North Uist.
I haven't found a death date for daughter of Jane MacPherson / Doanld MacPherson: Margaret / Peggy. I do know that she was still alive at the time of her husband Angus MacDonald's death in Stoneybridge in 1884.
On the attestation papers front, I was hoping they were free like in Canada. ;) No such luck based on what you're saying. ;D I haven't had a chance to look at the links you've provided yet, but the attestation papers I'm interested in are for grandchild of Angus MacDonald & Margaret/Peggy Macdonald.:
Angus Macdonald b1890 - 21 Dec 1914 In France (he was son of John MacDonald & Margaret/Peggy MacInnes)
Thanks again for any help. Jan
-
Jan,
Angus' details are here:
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/856644/MacDONALD,%20ANGUS
MacDONALD, ANGUS
Rank: Private
Service No: 315055
Date of Death: 21/12/1914
Age: 24
Regiment/Service: Cameron Highlanders 1st Bn.
Panel Reference Panel 41 and 42.
Memorial LE TOURET MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of John and Peggy MacIrmes MacDonald, of Stoneybridge, South Uist.
Also this but can't locate his attestation papers.
Name: Angus Mcdonald
Birth Place: Stoneybridge, Inverness-shire
Residence: Stoneybridge
Death Date: 21 Dec 1914
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Inverness, Inverness-shire
Rank: Private
Regiment: Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders
Battalion: 1st Battalion
Number: 3/5055
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre
Is it possibly only survivors attestation papers are online ?
I once heard a lot of Army records were burned in a fire or something like that so it may be that the papers were burned ?
Anne Marie
-
Thanks again Anne Marie. :)
-
Hi all.
I'm popping back with an update.
Based on the research completed with your able assistance, the Benbecula Historical Society has found an elderly descendant of the Stoneybridge branch of the family. They have provided him with my research summary & will try to coordinate a response from the fellow. :) My fingers are crossed that I hear back from them in the not-to-distant future.
Thanks again to all for getting me this far down the path. I couldn't have done it without you. :)