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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: khards on Tuesday 11 February 14 01:00 GMT (UK)
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???
Thomas Harding B1766
D1850 age 84, Merton, Surrey, England (St Mary)
1790 residence - Westminster England age 24
1791 married ??
1796 residence Westminster
1841 residence -Mitcham, Surrey England age 75
i think he was married twice - first to Rebecca Seale = St Martins in the field
second wife Sarah ?
shows Parish of Mitcham 1841 census Thomas Harding 75
Sarah Harding 65
was he married twice and who are his parents ?
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Thomas Harding B1766 [is this estimate from 1841 census and age at death?]
D1850 age 84, Merton, Surrey, England (St Mary) [do you have any proof that this is your Thomas Harding? eg is he buried with wife/children?]
1790 residence - Westminster England age 24 [what is the source for this?]
1791 married ?? [what leads you to believe he married in 1791 if you don't have a wfe for him?]
1796 residence Westminster [what is the source for this?]
1841 residence -Mitcham, Surrey England age 75 [I found Thomas and Sarah in the 1841 census - neither are born in Surrey - do you know where either or both were born?]
i think he was married twice - first to Rebecca Seale = St Martins in the field [date and source? How do you know this is your Thomas?]
second wife Sarah ?
was he married twice and who are his parents ? [need some idea of where he was born in order to begin to look for his birth/baptism]
Sure you are looking at just the one Thomas Harding?
1841 census has 4 Thomas Hardings b in England in 1766 (only a rough guide as ages rounded in 1841). Likely there would have been more but some probably died before 1841.
Do you have children of the marriage/s? Do you have their birth/ baptisms? Anything that confirms the children have same father and different mothers? ( eg abode? Occupation?)
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Duplicate postings:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=677199.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=677208.
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Duplicate postings:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=677199.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=677208.
Thank you KGarrad. :)
As you probably now gather, khards, duplicate posts are discouraged. People can spend hours searching for the same information that you have already been given on a duplicate thread. :( Luckily these were discovered in time. ;)
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All the other duplicate postings are now locked, this is the only active one.
Please post replies and help here.
Thanks
Dawn
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For anyone looking at this, this earlier post seems to give some information leading back to Thomas who died in Merton
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=671385.msg5165209#msg5165209
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Thomas was born Westminster
I know this is my Thomas as there is also 5 other family tree's the same as mine in Ancestry.com, written by people whom i do not know but i can follow down right to my grandfather Alfred.
two of the tree's i found him to have 2 wives 1 wife Rebecca Seale and 1 wife with just Sarah written
Marriage to Rebecca in 1791 found in = Pallot's Marriage Index for England: 1780 - 1837
residence for 1796 and 1806 found = UK, Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1538-1893
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Thomas was born Westminster
I know this is my Thomas as there is also 5 other family tree's the same as mine in Ancestry.com, written by people whom i do not know but i can follow down right to my grandfather Alfred.
All that means is that someone has done a tree, not necessarily correctly and the other 4 have copied it. Have you verified the information with the appropriate documents, did you get the marriage cert as advised by ciderdrinker on your other thread.
I should stress that buying Thomas's marriage to Ellen Taylor would prove it one way or the other
Rosie
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I know this is my Thomas as there is also 5 other family tree's the same as mine in Ancestry.com, written by people whom i do not know but i can follow down right to my grandfather Alfred.
Have seen this happen before where mistakes are simply perpetuated.
As well as the other suggestions, you probably need to check everything to ensure the trees you found on Ancestry are correct. If someone has found the documentation to put the trees together, it must be out there for you to find too. :)
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Just checking a couple of things and wonder where you got this from?:
1790 residence - Westminster England age 24
residence for 1796 and 1806 found = UK, Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1538-1893
In the source quoted above I can see:
1790 - Parish Westminster - Thomas Harding - residence Hungerford Market - occupation Butcher
1796 - City of London - Thomas Harding - residence Harp Lane, Tower St - occupation Goldsmith
1801 - Westminster - Thomas Harding - 10 Tothill St - Pork Butcher
I suspect 1796 Thomas Harding may be a different man.
I can see the Pallots marriage for a Thomas Harding to Rebecca Seale. It might be worth chasing up the parish register in case there is any further snippet of information - Pallots is literally just the names written on a scrap of paper so of limited use.
In looking for a second marriage for Thomas to someone called Sarah after 1791 and before 1841, (place unknown) is there any way you can narrow down the dates at all? Births of children perhaps? Burial of Rebecca?
I looked at the marriages and Banns on Ancestry and over the years there are a number of Thomas Hardings marrying Sarahs - and of course they may not even have married in the London area. :-\
Do any of the online trees give more information about these people?
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Copied from your other post
It looks like their parents were Thomas Harding (1766-1850)who married Rebecca Searle(1767-1815) St Martin in the Fields 1791 (Pallots marriage index).
Children Maria 1794.Rosetta 1794-98,John Searle 1796 and Thomas 1799
But that's from an online tree and I haven't checked that out.
Ciderdrinker
Thomas Harding & Sarah, probably the ones you have found on census, are having children christened in Merstham as per familysearch
Thomas 1800
John 1802
Sarah 1805
Martha 1808
Batch Number P01411-1
Film number: 0599892 IT 6
ADDED
Thomas Harding
Spouse Sarah Miller
Event Date 25 June 1798
Merstham,Surrey
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From the marriage register St Martin in the Fields
11 Dec 1791
Thomas Harding & Rebecca Seale both of this parish married after banns.
Witnesses Edward Seale & John Taylor (the parish professional witness)
1841 census
Thomas Harding ShopKeeper 75 Not born in County
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Thanks Rosie, that answers some of my questions ... however ....
according to the above, Thomas's first wife Rebecca died in 1815 (where?)
...BUT ...
Thomas and Sarah's first child Thomas was born in 1800 in Merstham. :-\
Just noticed the marriages which were added. :)
Um ... Interesting ...
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Thomas & Rebecca appear to christen another Rosetta at St Margaret, Westminster 1801, born 1801. :) This is the same church that the first one was christened
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according to the above, Thomas's first wife Rebecca died in 1815 (where?)
...BUT ...
There is a burial in Westminster for a 48 year old Rebecca Harding in 1815, the same church where the children were christened. :)
How do we know that Thomas was bn 1766, he could have been a lot older than his wife.
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In case the Merton Thomas Harding is yours there is a will available to download for a small fee
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D3402
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I have found a living relative from the Harding tree and she is also stuck at Thomas. ??? She has his Death certificate.
Thomas was married to Rebecca Seale
From the marriage register St Martin in the Fields
11 Dec 1791
Thomas Harding & Rebecca Seale both of this parish married after banns.
Witnesses Edward Seale & John Taylor (the parish professional witness)
There is a burial in Westminster for a 48 year old Rebecca Harding in 1815, the same church where the children were christened.
Rebecca is buried at St Margaret's church, Westminster
also found
William Seal Harding born to a Thomas and Rebecca in 1792 in Pancras
is there any way of finding out Thomas's father?
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Hi
Ciderdrinker here.I got your message and will take a look.I'm on a Library computer that is running really slow and won't load certain websites so it may take a while.
So far got Rebecca's burial age 48 Tothill St 5.10.1815 Westminster St Margarets .This ties in with the butcher on the rate lists.He 's still there 1818.
There is a Will for the goldsmith Thomas Harding 17.3.1787 which lists amongst his children a son Thomas but no details of what he did for a living.(Have now checked this out and he was born 1751)
Possible marriage to Sarah - Sarah Biddick 3.9.1828 St Ann Soho
I think it's the first but need to get the websites to load and check things out.
Burial definitely age 84 6.2.1850 so born 1765/6
Will get back to you
Ciderdrinker
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Good Morning
Sorry not to get back to you earlier but the computers where really playing up and I just hadn't got all the research done.
Now I have got an answer for you ,but I would like to strike a note of caution.We are assuming that the 1841 census is correct and therefore Thomas Harding was born 1765/6 if however he died back in Westminster sometime after 1818 the last Poll entry I can find and before 1841 then all that is wrong.So you should look at the burials 1818-1841 at St Margaret s Westminster and check he didn't die there.
Anyway this is what I think is his family ,bear with me when I explain why because there are a lot of Hardings and this is a bit short on facts.The records for Westminster where the family came from aren't generally on line and I've had to go with partial indexes.
So those Westminster Voting lists are on London Lives webstite and your Thomas is on there 1790-1818.He also appears on there as a juror at the Westminster coroner's court:-
Thomas Harding Tothill St Chandler 1794
Now this suggests at the beginning he was supplying food etc to ships and boats.Now 26 is a little young to be amongst the super rich able to vote so i looked for someone doing the same job in the area who might be related.
Thomas Harding Victualler Long Acre St Martins in the Fields 1774-1816.
A victualler could be a publican but can also be a supplier of food to the Navy of Merchant ships.
He dies 1816 and is buried at Paddington St Mary 1.4.1816 age 69 Long Acre St Martin in the fields. His Will is proven at the Canterbury Court 4.1.1816(I can send you that if you pm me your email address).
He mentions his wife Sarah ,nephew Edward Robert Harding ,butcher Pheonix Alley Long Acre ,first cousin Richard plumber Whitechapel and Sarah Shoud wife of John pork butcher(turns out to be wife's niece ).Afraid no mention of his children because he leaves most things to his wife.
Sarah was buried at Paddington 2.6.1824 age 72 from Drury lane St Martins in the fields.(her Will mentions married sister Ann and her 5 children including Sarah Shoud).
I think this is Thomas's father and mother .There is a possible baptism at St Ann's Soho on familysearch.
Thomas Hardin born 30.9.1766 bap 11.11.1764 to Thomas and Nicholls Hardin.
I haven't seen the original but worth a look.
The nephew Edward Robert Harding is the son of Isaac and Martha Harding.Their children are all baptised at St Anne's Soho
Thomas Phillip 7/2/1781 ,bap 1.3.
Isaac 2/9/ and 24/9/1782
Edward Robert 12/4/1784 and 10.5.1784
Isaac 19.4.1787 and 11.6.1787.
The Isaac and Martha married at St George Hanover Square 10.1.1776(her maiden name Holder) and he was a pork butcher.On the Westminster 1780 voting list Newport Market.
He was also buried at St Mary Paddington 8.11.1810 from Martlebone age 57 ,so born 1753.
So we have 2 brothers
Thomas Harding 1747-1816 and Isaac 1753-1810.
I could speculate further but you NEED those records from Westminster archives.
Sorry not to be more definite ,I did my best.
Ciderdrinker