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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: ghostgirl on Wednesday 12 February 14 06:44 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find any information on the above person. He was born in Esperance, Western Australia, in about 1892/3. He fought in WW1, then deserted before being discharged, thereby forfeiting his medals, any pay due to him, and his free passage to Australia.
In 1936, an "Application for a certificate of service to replace a lost discharge certificate" was sent to the Base Records Dept in Australia, from Robert Clateworthy, whose address was 445 Richards St (3rd Floor) Vancouver, BC, Canada.
I would like to know whether Robert married in Canada, when he died, and any other information about him as well, if possible, please.
Thanks
GG
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Hi GG,
Apart from the New York Passenger List - departing Dundee for New York arriving 23 June 1920 on the Sidlaw Range - can't seem to find any other entries so far even with spelling variation. Still looking though.
Maybe try playing around on this site - for a death registration:-
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Genealogy/BasicSearch
Family Search have British Columbia marriage up to 1932 and deaths to 1986
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list?page=1®ion=CANADA
Sandra
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Hi,
I am not seeing him in the Vancouver Directories for 1936 and 1937. You can search other years to see if there is any sign of him... the directories are free at this site.
http://www.vpl.ca/bccd/index.php
You can also search by address, so perhaps the address given on his form can provide some clues.
RK
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Thanks RunKitty and Sandra, I will check out those sites. I didn't have his passage to Canada either, so that's a good start!!
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You can also search by address, so perhaps the address given on his form can provide some clues.
Hi GG,
Don't know what you have found so far concerning the address at 445 Richards St. The city directories list a variety of commercial/business/light manufacturing enterprises at that location over the years. But in the 1920's at least, there was also a business listed as 'Richards Rooms' at 445 Richards. That establishment name doesn't show up around the dates you are interested in, but there could have still been a business renting rooms there under another name.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0y1d/
Doesn't really help much but just thought I'd pass it along.
sami
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Thank you Sami, that does help, in that it might explain why I am unable to find him - if he was just a boarder/lodger, in "Richard's Rooms" or similar, he would be quite hard to find! :)
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Hello ghostgirl,
After looking through tons of passenger lists I am thinking the passenger list that Sandra posted
could very well be your man. It is the only one that comes close .I could not make out the first name but middle initial is R
Clatworthy is not a very common name. The passenger list does give Esperance as place of birth.
Could be that he stayed in the US maybe coming into Canada sometime later.
Will poke around some more.
Lilybell
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Hi GG
Further checking on the above passenger list indicates that Robert was a L.O.C stowaway.
If you send me your email address I will forward the records onto you.
Not sure what L.O.C. stands for does anyone know.
Lilybell
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Went back to the passenger record for Robert and noticed that the notation beside his name was LPC which stands for Likely Public Charge.
Common cause of detention and grounds for exclusion/deportation.Immigrants were most likely considered a likely public charge if they had little money and no family,friends or prospects or if they were disabled in some way that would prevent them earning their own living.
The majority of LPC exclusions were overcome during the Special Inquiry process,usually when friends,family or some immigrant Aid organization came and vouched for the person or posted a bond for them.
Did some checking on US census records but no luck so do not know if he was deported from the US or came to Canada,or went back home. ??? ??? ???
Lilybell
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It says "deported" in the first columns. Wonder if that would send him back to Scotland (Dundee) where he embarked ?
Sandra
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Oh wow Lilybell, I will send you a message!!! Thanks so much - and Sandra, thanks to you too. This man would not have had much of an income, his background was not a solid one, to say the least. Could he have been in Canada until 1936 before being deported? This is great, thanks so much!
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Hi GG:
Came across Robert Clateworthy in a list of deserters on a another forum. As part of his service details it also lists that in addition to being known as Clatworthy he was also known as Clatsworthy. It made me wonder what other names he might have gone by. Did he have other first names that he used, or other surnames that he might have been likely to use?
Also wondering if the 1936 application was rejected or approved?
sami
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Hi Sami - in the correspondence from the war office in 1936, he was referred to has Chateworthy (although this was an error of the office, not Robert). His father had been called Clapworthy at one point as well, once again by someone else!! And the application in 1936 was refused as he had deserted. I haven't as yet found him using any other first name, just Robert.
I came across a document that had been transcribed as Clatsworthy, but in the original it was quite obviously Clateworthy - don't know if that is the same one you have seen - but it wouldn't surprise me if it was yet another one, as there seem to be so many variations!!
Lilybell, thanks for those documents - that's fantastic. I have a subscription for that site, but it doesn't cover Canada!
GG
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Hi GG
You are most welcome glad I could help.
Robert sounds like quite a character..with all those variations on his name makes searching a challenge. ::) ::) ::)Will keep looking.
Lilybell
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Meant to ask if you have a copy of his military file?
Lilybell
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Hi GG
Ran across a crews list for a Robert Clatsworthy on ship Dawn August 8,1904.
A****try is having issues but will send it on to you when the site is working.
Lilybell
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Hi GG:
Just adding the information from the list of deserters. I'm thinking you probably have this but thought I'd add it just in case:
CLATEWORTHY Robert 1699 Pte 10 LHR 11R Tos 2-16 to Dvr 1 sect/4 DAC 4-16 to Gnr 43Bty/11 FAB (1699a) 12-16 WIA 25-10-17 R/hand at Passendaele FGCM 25-1-19 AWol from 24-9-18 to 10-12-18 sentenced 12 months HL to No 10 Military Prison Dunkirk 2-19 deserted 14-5-19 F&B AKA Robert Clatsworthy or Clatworthy
sami
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Phew! You guys are wonderful!
I do have a copy of his military file. The reason I am researching him, is for a project we are doing to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of WW1. We are putting together the stories of all the men on our local honour roll, and he is one of them.
I would be surprised if that is him on the crew list, as he would have been quite young and was in Esperance until the war, as far as I know. But I wouldn't rule it out, nevertheless!
I have had a look on passenger lists/crew lists to see if he returned to Australis, but haven't found anything yet.
Thanks again
GG
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Hi GG
The crew list I forwarded on to you indicates the arrival port was Albany and departure port was Esperance..so it could be him.
A bit more information that I ran across. A cabin boy was the youngest crew member on board at age 16. However it was not uncommon for seamen to be as young as 16 and cabin boys were sometimes only 12 or 13. ??? ??? ???
Lilybell
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You're right Lilybell, he was from Esperance - however, it could be his father who was also Robert. And it was in 1904, interestingly, that he got in trouble for violence against his wife. I might be able to check out some local shipping records as well, to find out more about that one! Thanks again, this is all great - I wonder why I didn't come across that one myself as it is in Australia ???
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I have just noticed that on tha voyage in Nov 1904 Robert Clatsworthy had 3 children with him, in fact it looks like "3 ab children", which could be aboriginal, as Robert senior did have several children with his wife/partner, who was an aboriginal. And she had died earlier that year, which would explain why it's just him and the kids. One of those kids may be Robert Junior...
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The two Roberts (father and son) are part of my family ancestry....have some info on both but have been trying to locate the younger Robert.....I even have an Ellis Island certificate for when he passed thru USA ....if you are still involved in this line of inquiry please post back to this....
Cheers Ray
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Hi Ray
I am still vvery involved in this line of enquiry! I also have that Esllis Island certificate, but would really like to share info with you. I have learned more since my original post as well.
Cheers
GG
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G'Day GG....can't use PM as yet as I've insufficient posts....only recently come across this forum...previously tried Ancestry (huge waste of money), Genes Re-united (still a member), and I still have trees posted on both.....
Lost Robert Jr at Ellis Island and not sure if he was deported and left on SS Sidlaw Range....later found copy of letter 8 May 1936 from Vancouver, and contacted Veterans in Canada and tried other sources unsuccesfully....
Not too sure of Robert Snr after he was given 4 months hard labour in July 1904 for assaulting his wife in May 1903....Margaret died after she fell from a horse she was riding, this was in the month of May, but I don't know whether it was 1903 or 1904....
Reported in Northern Times (Carnarvon) Friday 1st August 1924
An employee on Dalgety Downs, named Robert Clatworthy, aged about 35 gears, was found lying in the bush on the station early on Friday morning last week, suffering from severe internal injuries caused by his horse falling with him. He was brought to the homestead and a telephone message despatched to Carnarvon for medical assistance.
The message was received by Dr. Hansted on Saturday morning, we understand; and he lett per motor driven by Mr, E. Williams about 11 o'clock, and arrived at Dalgety Downs at 3 a.m. on Sunday. It was too late, however to do anything for the unfortunate sufferer.
Age stated maybe incorrect, and we feel that this maybe Robert Snr....
Cheers Ray
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G'Day GG....further reading of these old news stories, I now believe that all incidences, the assault, the death of Margaret, and the sentencing of Robert, all occurred in 1904....
cheers Ray
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Hi again - I have sent you a pm, so maybe if you keep replying to me here you'll be able to pm me :) I saw that article too, and wondered if the age was wrong. One possible way to find out would be the death certificate I guess.
I know Robert senior was still living when Robert Jnr signed up for WWI, as he was listed as his next of kin.
The letters from Vancouver are in Robert Junior's service record. I also tried to contact the authorities over there with no luck! Can't even find out when he died. However I would be very surprised if he was able to raise the funds to return here himself.
Yep, you're right - Margaret Griffin died on 14 June 1904.
There is a file in the SRO in Perth relating to Robert junior's sister Lily, but you need permission from the Dept of Aboriginal Affairs to view it. She was the only surviving family member other than their Dad, therefore the most likely person Robert Jnr would have contacted, although as he couldn't read or write he'd have had to get someone else to do it for him. There was also his half brother James Griffin, but it doesn't seem that Robert contacted him either.
As you may know their other brother Joseph died in 1918 from the Spanish Influenza, contracted aboard the HMAT Boonah, which is another fascinating story in itself.
GG