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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: spices on Friday 14 February 14 03:27 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find the emigration record for my husbands maternal 2nd Gt Grand Parents
Louis LESEBERG b 1826 at Salzgitter Germany Parents August LESEBERG and Sophia MARHEINE.
Married Caroline BRUNKE 1851 Salzgitter Germany. Parents Christopher BRUNKE & Magdaline FROST.
They had 3 children in Germany
Elizabeth 1851/52
Frederick 1853
Louis 1855 then there were 5 more children born in Australia.
sadly Frederick & Louis drowned in The Indigo Creek Victoria in 1867'
They would have emigrated between 1855 - 1858 as forth child August was born in Australia 1858.
I have found a Caroline LESEBERG arriving in Melbourne July 1857 on the Eagle Speed departing from Liverpool. HOWEVER the microfiche says she was 29 and a Spinster.
On Far North QLD pioneer & settlers reg there are other BRUNKE'S
BRUNKE Augusta b c1835 Salzgitter parents Carle & Magdalena FROST.
She came to Melbourne age 20 1855 on the Iserbrook
I think she might be Caroline's sister/ relation
Thanks Spices
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Hi Spices,
Had a look at the Qld Gazettes and other resources and I couldn't see any info on Louis Leseberg being in Queensland, a Heinrich Leseberg arrived in Qld in 1854.
There was outstanding mail being held at the Melbourne GPO in April 1858 for Louis.
Gerry
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Hi Spices,
Had a look at the Qld Gazettes and other resources and I couldn't see any info on Louis Leseberg being in Queensland, a Heinrich Leseberg arrived in Qld in 1854.
There was outstanding mail being held at the Melbourne GPO in April 1858 for Louis.
Gerry
Hi Spices,
Had a look at the Qld Gazettes and other resources and I couldn't see any info on Louis Leseberg being in Queensland, a Heinrich Leseberg arrived in Qld in 1854.
There was outstanding mail being held at the Melbourne GPO in April 1858 for Louis.
Gerry
Thanks Gerry, I don't think Louis arrived in QLD He lived 25yrs in Victoria. I noticed other arrivals with the ? same family links went there.
Died May 1880 age 54 - buried Barnawartha cemetery site unknown.
occupation Hotel Keeper.
Hotel The Farmers Arms area now known as Browns Plains.
The hotel was deprived of its licence on 31/12/1913 Carolyn was still listed as owner.
Carolyn died 1889 age 64 also buried Barnawartha cemetery. She lived in Victoria 32 years and was listed as housewife.
Gerry how did you find out about the outstanding mail?
I wonder if we can still claim it -- might answer some questions. ???
Interesting we still have Christmas lunch at The Farmers Arms .
Spices
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OOPS not sure what I did there ::)
Spices
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It was usual for the Colonial Governments to place in the Government Gazettes on a regular basis lists of names with outstanding mail being retained at the GPO. This can sometmes be an indicator when a person arrived in a Colony, but they also could just be on the move as well.
While researching my Victorian families yesterday I hd access to the Victorian Government Gazettes and did a global search on Louis Leseberg and the earliest reference was the April 1858 with outstanding mail.
Sad about the 14 and 15 year old boys drowing in Indigo Creek, did you get a copy of the inquest.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
My husbands aunt has a copy of the Inquest.
Caroline LESEBERG stated " on Saturday last the second instant between 3 & 4 o'clock I sent them to get some bark for baking, with Charles LESEBERG b 1861 Charles came back & said that Frederick & Louis had gone down for a swim and he thought they were drowned. I ran down to the creek but could see nothing of the deceased"
Sadly a 3rd child drowned.
Extract from the inquest into the death of August LESEBERG held October 22 1859 at Chiltern Victoria. From Louise LESEBERG
'The day before yesterday the 21st, in the afternoon, I was working near here, my child came to me, a short time after the child was missing. I looked for it, I thought it must be drowned in a water hole, I took a pole and got the body out of the hole I thought it was in ....... It was 17 months old.
He was born May 21 1858 D October 21 1859.
Spices
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I have been told that if unclaimed mail held at the GPO was from a Govt department there would be a record of this, possibly at PROV
Can anyone shed some light
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I have some new info which may help a RC help me with my search
Louis LESEBERG full name was
Johann Ludwig Adolph LESEBERG b July 1825 he was a musician in Salzgitter
he was married in the church Mariae Jakobi Salzgitter January 1851
The info that I now have Caroline BRUNKE mothers name Magdalene TROST not FROST
Her father Christoph BRUNKE was also a musician.
I do not know which state they emigrated into. They did go to Woolshed Vic.--near Beechworth
then to Browns Plains -near Rutherglen Vic.
Spices
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May I suggest that Caroline LESEBERG on the shipping list is likely your relative. There are no further records for a person of that name on the indexes other than the wife of Louis LESEBERG. Shipping lists are full of errors and as information was given orally most of the errors were caused by accents and illiteracy ie some people didn't know how to spell their names and many didn't know their true ages.
LESEBERG Caroline 29 years arrived July 1857 on the EAGLE SPEED Port B 128/007
There is also this record but I note there are LESEBERG's in NSW.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx
LESEBERG Mr, Mrs on the WARATAH P 8 Aug 1855 Origin Port Melbourne Sydney Morning Herald
According to the indexes, and mentioned by you, a child, August, was born at Woolshed, Vic in 1858.
Caroline's death registration in 1889 states she was 64 years ie born c1825. As her husband pre-deceased her in 1880 I wonder who was the informant and how accurate was the information. Her age would be on the birth certificates of children born in Victoria.
According to the indexes, and mentioned by you, a child, August, was born at Woolshed, Vic in 1858.
Do you have husband Louis' and Caroline's death certificates? The writing in the registers is at times, difficult to decipher and there may have simply been an error with Caroline's mother's maiden name.
Cando
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Wont help with arrivals but there are online wills in the VIC archives site for both Louis and Caroline.
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Just found several online trees for Louis LESEBERG and one states
Lived in Victoria for 25 yrs and was listed as "Hotel Keeper" at the time of his death
Perhaps you could contact the compilers of these trees or possibly you are one of them ;)
Cando
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Headstone's or MI's at Barnawartha Cemetery
Photos will be emailed on request. Wonderful service by Carol ;D
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Barnawartha.htm
LESEBERG Charlie, Elizabeth T
LESEBERG Frederick Joseph
LESEBERG Greta May
LESEBERG Keith Robert
LESEBERG Louis C, Ernestina Sarah
LESEBERG Louis C
LESEBERG Robert James
Cando
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Thank you Cando
Just found several online trees for Louis LESEBERG and one states
Lived in Victoria for 25 yrs and was listed as "Hotel Keeper" at the time of his death
Perhaps you could contact the compilers of these trees or possibly you are one of them ;)
Cando
The hotel was named The Farmers Arms and the building still stands. We have Christmas lunch there each year.
The other on line trees I have been in touch with some of the researchers. Many have taken the info from the research my husbands aunt did. She is in her 80's and has just returned home after 5 months rehab post fall.
She has purchased many of the certificates so will need to contact her. I do recall her saying she was not sure of their arrival.
Cando when I looked at the microfiche for the Eagle Speed there was no husband or children. I would not imagine Louis would come out with 3 children and Caroline coming out at another time.
Interesting the music gene has been passed down the generations HOWEVER missed my husband.
Cando have sent a PM
Spices
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There are many errors and omissions on passenger lists. My maternal gggrandfather kept a wonderfully detailed diary including many entries about his journey to Australia in 1853 however he and his brother's names are not on the passenger list of unassisted immigrants who arrived Melbourne. My paternal gggrandmother and her children are noted as born in Scotland [they weren't] and all their ages are incorrect and not just by a few years.
There are so few LESEBERG's in Australia and there is no other Caroline LESEBERG on the BDM indexes. It is possible that Louis and children have been indexed with a mistranscribed surname. I've read comments along the lines of there was not the interest in recording accurate information for unassisted passengers as they had paid their passage whereas fares for assisted immigratns were paid or were due by agents or third parties.
Even the following Act did not enforce accurate ship's manifests especially during the gold rush.
In 1852 the “Act to Regulate the Conveyance of Passengers to the Colony of Victoria” was passed. This law required that ships arriving from foreign and inter-colonial ports provide details on the passengers aboard as well as other particulars of the ship.
Cheers
Cando
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Thank you Cando I do appreciate your input.
Spices
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Just my two bob's worth ;D
I do understand your frustration when you can't tick all the boxes when researching your ancestors.
Cheers :)
Cando
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http://gazette.slv.vic.gov.au/
LESEBERG l Victoria Gazetted 5 Feb 1864 Gazette item sub title heading: Crown Grants Beechworth
LESEBERG L Beechworth Gazetted 20 Jan 1865 Gazette item sub title heading: Crown Grants
LESEBERG L Beechworth Gazetted 21 Jul 1865 Crown Grants
LESEBERG L Beechworth Gazetted 6 Feb 1867 Grants And Leases
LESEBERG L Beechworth Gazetted 30 Jul 1867 Crown Grants
LESEBERG L Receipts & Pay Office Beechworth Gazetted 24 July 1868 Gazette item sub title heading: Crown Grant & Leases
LESEBERG L Beechworth Gazetted 30 Jul 1869 Crown Grants and Leases
LESEBERG L Pay Office Beechworth Gazetted 21 Jul 1871 Crown Grants and Leases
LESEBERG L Beechworth Gazetted 26 Jan 1872 Gazette item sub title heading: Crown Grants and Leases Pay Office Beechworth
LESEBERG L Beechworth Gazetted 26 Jul 1872 Gazette item sub title heading: Crown Grants and Leases
LESEBERG L Beechworth Gazetted 24 Jan 1873 Gazette item sub title heading: Crown Grants and Leases
LESEBERG L Pay Office Beechworth Gazetted 18 Jul 1873 Gazette item sub title heading: Crown Grants and Leases
LESEBERG L Pay Office Beechworth Gazetted 29 Jan 1875 Gazette item sub title heading: Crown Grants
LESEBERG L Chiltern Gazetted 2 Apr 1875 Gazette item sub title heading: Applications for Licenses under Section 19 Approved
LESEBERG L Pay Office Beechworth Gazetted 23 Jul 1875 Gazette item sub title heading: Crown Grants
LESEBERG L Pay Office Beechworth Gazetted 28 Jan 1876 Crown Grants
LESEBERG Louis Victoria Gazetted 9 Oct 1863 Gazette item sub title heading: Title Deeds Beechworth
LESEBERG Louis. Victoria Gazetted 17 Nov 1863 Gazette item sub title heading: Title Deeds Beechworth
LESEBERG Louis Goormadda Gazetted 19 Dec 1879 Applications under Land Act Not Granted
Cando
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Wont help with arrivals but there are online wills in the VIC archives site for both Louis and Caroline.
Thank you giblet
I will try and weave my way around the PROV site and try to find the wills
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Index to Wills, Probate and Administration Records 1841-2009
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
You need to be patient when downloading the digitised files....very slow.
Cando
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Cando thank you so much for the link at PROV
I was asking my OH "how many acres are there now"
due to roads etc there is less land.
The Old Hotel does have 8 rooms which includes the bar, dining room and parlour.
The kitchen is detached and when I first went there they cooked in the open fire and had no running water.
Wow ;D ;D
Spices
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Hello Spices,
nice to find you here in this forum.
August Leseberg was an musician.
At the offical Website of the town Salzgitter you can find something about the history of the
Salzgitter Wandermusikanten.
https://www.salzgitter.de/stadtleben/kultur/stadtgeschichte/wandermusikanten.php
I tryed to translate it in english, hopefully it`s not to bad.
Traveling musicians (Klesmer)
The salzgitter traveling musicians, the Klesmer, were known in the 19-th century nearly all over the world. They played at prince's courts and in ruling houses just as in inns, on the street or in the campfires of the gold diggers in America and Australia.
Already before 1800 there were some musicians in Salzgitter Bad - after the Napoleonic time the number started to rise by leaps and bounds. The 'Klesmern' offered in times of economic need of a growing number impecunious Häuslinge, Tagelöhner and small craftsman a chance to earn money.
The first musicians united to harp chapels. The smallest occupation was a harp and violin, a flute or song sometimes arrived. Besides brass bands, at the beginning of quartets, after 1820 soon also formed bigger entertainment chapels. The repertoire was depending on skill and education state the musician and reached from home Rn and folk songs with the smaller street chapels up to potpourris and Ouvertüren with the big choirs.
The first salzgitter musicians of 1790 till 1812 travelled around merely the narrower native country or the Northwest-German space. These trips needed no special financing. Already in the next place could become 'geklesmert'. Also Denmark, Norway and Sweden were still reached on foot or by the level car. The chapel Dammeyer was the first one which moved in 1813 to Russia. Many other chapels followed them. Some played at the czar's court and the courts of other princes. Only the music ban after the murder of the czar in 1881 finished the concert activity of the salzgitter choirs in Russia.
The first oversea land which the salzgitter musicians travelled around since 1812 was Mexico. Mostly the east coast was the purpose, however, there were chapels which did not avoid the dangerous ship passage around cape horn to appear in the west of South America. But also North America and Australia belonged quite early to the destinations. Even China, Japan, India, Arabia and South Africa were travelled around. These destinations had to be planned overseas carefully and be prefinanced. Businesspeople of Salzgitter and above all banker Sievers spended the musicians with clothes and the necessary travel money from. As soon as profits had been won, one sent bigger sums to Salzgitter to pay off the debts and to support the all those at home.
Many of the salzgitter musicians had own language, the so-called Klesmersprache. Expressions from the Rotwelschen and the Flat-German interfered with foreign-language elements from the travelled around lands. It was no own language, but referred, primarily, to music, traveling, trade supervision, salary, food and drinking. Till 1890 this language was absolutely alive in Salzgitter, however, with the disappearance of the salzgitter Klesmer the language also fell into oblivion. By the amount of 'mechanical' music and the chances to earn money in the industry the number of the Klesmer had become meaningless at the latest after the First World War.
Nowadays to honor of the salzgitter traveling musicians the annual Klesmerfestival with ensembles takes place on the place Klesmer in Salzgitter Bad from all over the world.
regards
Joerg
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Thank you Joerg what a find.
You say AUGUST was a musician so does that mean father and son were both travelling musicians.
I will spend some time reading your information.
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Joerg why is it called
Salzgitter Bad What does the BAD stand for please
Spices
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The city of Salzgitter exists of seven places which consist of a total of 31 parts of town.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Salzgitter_subdivisions.svg
Salzgitter-Bad is one part in the south of Salzgitter.
Joerg