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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: KevinBattle on Tuesday 18 February 14 20:54 GMT (UK)
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Hello all, I'm not usually stupid, but I'm not too hot on Scottish searching, so asking for your help, please.
I'm helping a friend with his family tree and we got as far back as Thomas Gibbons born In Edinburgh or Stirling in March 1851 (3 weeks old in Scottish Census). His father William was serving with 93rd Foot (Sutherland H'ldrs). Mother Ellen (nee Emery b Dublin?) and elder brothers John b 1847 in Canada, as was James in 1848. It seems William and Ellen married whilst the 93rd were in Canada in 1844 at Second Congregational in Quebec.
That seems a little odd as the 93rd were apparently reputed to be the most devout Regiment in the British Army, even having its own communion plate, thus presumably William & Ellen would seem to be Catholics. So why a Congregational Church? Or am I confusing "congregation" with "Congregation"? .......
Back to the search
I think I have Williams father as George at Killiemuir marrying a Jean/Jane Mann in 1814. That union shows the following children:
James born about 1816; William "Peddie" (George apparently was a peddler?) born 1818; Alexander Smith b. 1820; George I born 1822 but died as infant; George II b 1824.
I think George/Jean link back to John Gibbons marrying Jean Brechin(e) in about 1773 with one child Alexander, then another marriage about 1782 to Isabel(l) Reid.
Can anyone add, amend or correct that for me?
A few questions, also, if I may...
The Sutherland Highlanders were said to be most like a clan and seem to have a very narrow recruitment, with many having one of only about a dozen surnames. Was one of them Gibbons? i can't square the Forfar area with recruits for the 93rd Foot.
The 93rd went to Canada in 1838, so a 20 year old would be prime for being recruited to bring them up to strength, but was William an "outsider"?
The family are all in Scotland in 1851 Census, but 1861 finds Ellen a widow in Plymouth with just John and Thomas. In the interval, the 93rd were in Crimea and on return were in Aldershot area prior to being shipped from Plymouth to China but diverted to help quell the Indian Mutiny. Could that be when/where William died? And why Plymouth and not back to Scotland? It was where the 93rd sailed from to the Crimea and where they returned and also for China/India but the 93rd didn't return until 1870. Did the family all go to Crimea as camp followers? I don't quite understand why the family would accompany William, unless they were all taken for a long deployment in China/India, but then how did she with young children make it back? And not only did she have the death of William but also son James along the way.
I think you can tell that I'm fascinated by trying to join the gaps between these 10 year "snapshots" of families. I hope you can add something more to this for us!
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Hello! I'm researching the same William Gibbons (I'm a descendant of his son John), and just came across this post from 8 years ago. Did you ever get any responses or get any further in your searches for your friend? Best wishes, Jackie
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Hello.. Small aside but father William Gibbons seems to have awarded medal for India Mutiny
https://www.dnw.co.uk/resources/medal-rolls/entry.php?medalroll_id=4&entry_id=19445
L for Lucknow I assume... more at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Mutiny_Medal
Hope this is of interest..
Rgds
Mark W
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Slight change with just L...
Rgds
Mark W
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Hello Jackie and MarkW78
Thank you for your information.
I'm always surprised at how long a post can go without response and then out of the blue something surfaces, so it's always worth putting info "out there" in the hope that in time others can add info that may not have been available back then.
I should have thought of medals, after all, I made the potential connection to the Indian Mutiny, just didn't think of any medal roll listing. It's my understanding that to be awarded the medal, I assume he'd had to survive?
I will pass this info on to my friend, who may now be more computer conversant to take this thread further himself. :)
Thank you both for responding, just like London buses!!
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Your most welcome...
Glad you liked,
Regards
Mark
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MarkW78 and KevinBattle
Thank you both so much for replying!
Mark - that medal information is great - I thought he had probably died before that, since his 2nd son was admitted to a school in Chelsea for 'orphans' of soldiers (even though his mother was still alive) in Oct 1856. Also, the 'remarks' that he 'transferred to 74th' gives another avenue to follow. Really useful - thank you.
Kevin - thank you for posting in the first place - and if your friend is interested in continuing the thread, that would be great.
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JackieSeares
Your most welcome... it caught my attention as my wife's great x 3 grandfather severed in the 78th Regiment of Foot from 1793 to 1817.. and he published his own biography in the 1840's.. LIFE by Roderick Innes Published 1844 Stonehaven
Good luck with your research...
all the best
Regards
Mark
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Some general background on the 93rd and 78th Regiments in the Indian Mutiny.
The 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders) Regiment of Foot was a Line Infantry Regiment of the British Army, raised in 1799. Under the Childers Reforms, it amalgamated with the 91st (Argyllshire Highlanders) Regiment of Foot to form the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. The regiment sailed for India in June 1857 to help suppress the Indian Rebellion. It arrived at Calcutta in September 1857 and was welcomed by General Sir Colin Campbell.
.... Lucknow.....
Under heavy enemy fire, the regiment, together with the 4th Punjab Infantry Regiment took part in the storming and capture of Sikandar Bagh, a walled garden fortification, on 16 November 1857. Six Victoria Crosses were awarded to members of the regiment for their service in this action. At daybreak on 17 November 1857 the Regimental colour was hoisted on top of a tower as a signal to the beleaguered garrison of the Residency at Lucknow.
On the night of 19 November 1857 the regiment provided covering fire as the evacuation of the Residency took place. The regiment then saw action again at the Second Battle of Cawnpore in December 1857.
The regiment also took part in the storming and capture of Kaiser Bagh in March 1858: a Victoria Cross was awarded to Lieutenant William McBean for his role in killing eleven rebels with his sword during the engagement. It went on to take part in the capture of the city of Bareilly in May 1858 and a skirmish at Russulpore in October 1858.
It was renamed the 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders) Regiment of Foot in 1861 before embarking for home in February 1870. The regiment disembarked at Burntisland in March 1870 and received new colours from the Duchess of Sutherland in August 1871. It moved to Curragh Camp in Ireland in May 1877 and to Gibraltar in January 1879.
The 78th (Highlanders) Regiment of Foot was a Highland Infantry Regiment of the Line, raised in 1793. Under the Childers Reforms it amalgamated with 72nd Regiment, Duke of Albany's Own Highlanders to form the Seaforth Highlanders in 1881. The regiment returned to India in May 1857 to help suppress the Indian Rebellion. It took part in the recapture of Cawnpore in July 1857 and then took part in the reinforcement of Lucknow strongly defending the residency until it was relieved in November 1857. The regiment won eight Victoria Crosses during the campaign and its role at Lucknow was commemorated by poets such as John Greenleaf Whittier and Alfred, Lord Tennyson. There is also a long "epic" by William McGonagall!! The regiment returned home in September 1859.
The Indian Mutiny Medal was a campaign medal approved in August 1858, for issue to officers and men of British and Indian units who served in operations in suppression of the Indian Mutiny. The medal was initially sanctioned for award to those troops who had been engaged in action against the mutineers.
Clasps: Lucknow: November 1857 - March 1858. Awarded to troops under command of Sir Colin Campbell who were engaged in final operations leading to the surrender of Lucknow and the clearing of the surrounding areas.
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Second part (Mods if too boring please delete)
Campbell had advanced cautiously and had captured Lucknow with few casualties, but by failing to prevent the rebels escaping, he was forced to spend much of the following summer and monsoon season clearing the rebels from the countryside of Oudh. As a result, his army suffered heavy casualties from heatstroke and other diseases.
Outram had also failed to protest his orders not to advance on 14 March, which had allowed most rebels to escape. Outram was Civil Commissioner for Oudh in addition to his military command, and may have allowed his hopes for pacification and reconciliation to override his soldier's instincts.
The Secundra Bagh is a high walled garden approximately 120 yards square, with parapets at each corner and a main entry gate arch on the southern wall. Campbell's column approached along a road that ran parallel to the eastern wall of the garden. The advancing column of infantry, cavalry and artillery had difficulty manoeuvering in the cramped village streets. They were afforded some protection from the intense fire raining down on them by a high road embankment that faced the garden. Musket fire came from loopholes in the Secundra Bagh and nearby fortified cottages, and cannon shot from the distant Kaisarbagh (the former King of Oudh's palace). Campbell positioned artillery to suppress this incoming fire. Heavy 18-pounder artillery was also hauled by rope and hand over the steep road embankment and placed within 60 yards of the enclosure. Although significant British casualties were sustained in these manoeuvres, the cannon fire breached the southeastern wall.
Elements of the Scottish 93rd Highlanders and 4th Punjab Infantry Regiment rushed forward. Finding the breach too small to accommodate the mass of troops, the Punjab Infantry moved to the left and overran the defences at the main garden gateway. Once inside, the Punjabis, many of whom were Sikhs, emptied their muskets and resorted to the bayonet. Sepoys responded with counter-attacks. Highlanders pouring in by the breach shouted, "Remember Cawnpore!" Gradually the din of battle waned. The dwindling force of defenders moved northward until retreat was no longer possible. The British numbered the sepoy dead at nearly 2,000.
By late noon, a detachment of the relief column led by Adrian Hope disengaged from the Secundra Bagh and moved towards the Shah Najaf. The Shah Najaf, a walled mosque, is the mausoleum of Ghazi-ud-Din Haider, the first king of Oudh in 1814. The defenders had heavily fortified this multi-story position. When the full force of the British column was brought to bear on the Shah Najaf, the sepoys responded with unrelenting musketry, cannon grape shot and supporting cannon fire from the Kaisarbagh, as well as oblique cannon fire from secured batteries north of the Gumti River. From heavily exposed positions, for three hours the British directed strong cannon fire on the stout walls of the Shah Najaf. The walls remained unscathed, the sepoy fire was unrelenting and British losses mounted. Additional British assaults failed, with heavy losses.
However, retiring from their exposed positions was deemed equally dangerous by the British command. Fifty Highlanders were dispatched to seek an alternate access route to the Shah Najaf. Discovering a breach in the wall on the opposite side of the fighting, sappers were brought forward to widen the breach. The small advance party pushed through the opening, crossed the courtyard and opened the main gates. Seeing the long sought opening, their comrades rushed forth into the Shah Najaf. Campbell made his headquarters in the Shah Najaf by nightfall.
Within the besieged Residency, Havelock and Outram completed their preparations to link up with Campbell's column. Positioned in the Chuttur Munzil, they executed their plan to blow open the outer walls of the garden once they could see that the Secundra Bagh was in Campbell's hands.
The Moti Mahal, the last major position that separated the two British forces, was cleared by charges from Campbell's column. Only an open space of 450 yards now separated the two forces. Outram, Havelock and some other officers ran across the space to confer with Campbell, before returning. Stubborn resistance continued as the sepoys defended their remaining positions, but repeated efforts by the British cleared these last pockets of resistance. The second relief column had reached the Residency.
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Final!!
Although Outram and Havelock both recommended storming the Kaisarbagh palace to secure the British position, Campbell knew that other rebel forces were threatening Cawnpore and other cities held by the British, and he ordered Lucknow to be abandoned. The evacuation began on 19 November. While Campbell's artillery bombarded the Kaisarbagh to deceive the rebels that an assault on it was imminent, canvas screens were erected to shield the open space from the rebels' view. The women, children and sick and wounded made their way to the Dilkusha Park under cover of these screens, some in a variety of carriages or on litters, others on foot. Over the next two days, Outram spiked his guns and withdrew after them.
At the Dilkusha Park, Havelock died (of a sudden attack of dysentery) on 24 November. The entire army and convoy now moved to the Alambagh. Campbell left Outram with 4,000 men to defend the Alambagh, while he himself moved with 3,000 men and most of the civilians to Cawnpore on 27 November. The first siege had lasted 87 days, the second siege a further 61.
The rebels were left in control of Lucknow over the following winter, but were prevented from undertaking any other operations by their own lack of unity and by Outram's hold on the Alambagh, which was easily defended. Campbell returned to retake Lucknow, with the attack starting on 6 March. By 21 March 1858 all fighting had ceased.
During the siege, the Union Jack had flown day and night (against the usual practice, which is to strike national flags at dusk), as it was nailed to the flagpole. After the British re-took control of Lucknow, by special dispensation (unique within the British Empire), the Union Jack was flown 24 hours a day on the Residency's flagpole, for the rest of the time the British held India. The day before India became independent, the flag was lowered, the flagpole cut down, and the base removed and cemented over, to prevent any other flag from ever being flown there.
The largest number of Victoria Crosses awarded in a single day was the 24 earned on 16 November, during the second relief, the bulk of these being for the assault on the Secundrabagh.
The Indian Mutiny Medal had three clasps relating to Lucknow:
Defence of Lucknow, awarded to the original defenders - 29 June to 22 November 1857 (rare);
Relief of Lucknow, awarded to the relief force - November 1857
Lucknow, awarded to troops in the final capture of Lucknow - November 1857.
Having served with the 93rd for so long, it is my interpretation that William had been wounded either during the assaults on Lucknow or the mopping up operations, and after recovering found himself posted to the 78th, perhaps as a faster way of returning to England....? But that's so as to try and fit to the time line....
Do either of you (or others!) have any other info to clarify?
Thanks
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Wow Mark - I bet it's a fascinating read - but that's so interesting that he published his own life story back in 1840 - it's becoming easier/more afforadable to do such things these days, but back then, I imagine it was no easy feat!
And thank you Kevin for the additional info about the regiments and the Indian Rebellion. My son has always loved military history and reads loads of books around it - but now having a family member who was part of it will make it all interesting to me, too. (My son is going to love all of this!)
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Sorry Kevin - I meant to say, I have no further info to add, as yet. I've not had to research military history before, so I'll need to find out what resources are available. I like your suggestion for why he might have switched to the 78th. (He's definitely dead by 1861, as his wife is a widow in that census - but maybe I need to look more into the school's admission policy to see if his son might have attended prior to his father's death anyway. Sadly, that son died aged 12, but that's another story.)
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Doh!
Re-reading, I don't know how I switched to the 78th Reg't when William had transferred to the 74th!! Ignore all the 78th info!..... :(
The 74th became the Highland Light Infantry..
The regiment embarked for India in 1854 and helped to suppress the Indian Rebellion in 1857 before returning home in 1864. It was deployed to Gibraltar in 1868, to Malta in 1872 and to the Straits Settlements in 1876. It went on to Hong Kong in 1878 before returning to the Straits Settlements in 1879 and returning home in 1880.
As part of the Cardwell Reforms of the 1870s, where single-battalion regiments were linked together to share a single depot and recruiting district in the United Kingdom, the 74th was linked with the 26th (Cameronian) Regiment of Foot, and assigned to district no. 59 at Hamilton Barracks. On 1 July 1881 the Childers Reforms came into effect and the regiment amalgamated with the 71st (Highland) Regiment of Foot to become the 2nd battalion, Highland Light Infantry.
Sorry!! Does this correction now fit better with the family's movements?
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No worries, thanks Kevin - I will look into it and see what I can come up with! Really appreciate all this extra info :-)
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Well... it's beginning to look as though there are 2x William Gibbons in the 93rd. William with service number '65' is the one who won the Lucknow medal and transferred to the 74th (there's a suitable record for a William Gibbons in the 74th, with a new service number, in 1861, by which time I know 'my' William is dead) - and then there's what I think is 'my' William with service number '1373' who appears in the British Army Records for 1841 and 1851, marries Ellen Emery in Canada in 1847, also won a couple of Crimean war medals, and dying in 1855. BUT it's not all clear cut, because the 1841 record shows him as 'deserting' and his original occupation as 'weaver' - and then there's a death of a William Gibbons, weaver, in Forfarshire in 1853 - which can't be 'my' William if he died in a conflict and left a widow in Plymouth! Oh the joys of family history research...!
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Yes, the (ahem) "joys" of Family research!!
Pity the internet hadn't been invented, so as to make things clearer..... :)
For what little help it may be, the Dix Noonan records have 33 entries for medals for various Gibbons, including 4 entries for William Gibbons, so plainly there must have been more than one...?
Gibbons, William 93rd Foot (Sutherland Highlanders) Private L
Gibbons, William 27th Foot (Inniskilling) Private
Gibbons, William 1 MF Private DL (presumably Defence of Lucknow clasp)
Gibbons, William 2nd Bn Rifle Brigade Private
https://www.dnw.co.uk/resources/medal-rolls/results.php?medalroll_id=4&Surname=Gibbons&Forenames=&Unit=&Rank=&Clasps=&action=Search
Don't know what unit MF is, nor the dates for these awards.
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Thanks Kevin - I will look into these. I've found a really interesting resource - a thesis written by a PhD student in the 1980s called A SOCIAL AND DOMESTIC HISTORY OF THE KILTED AND HIGHLAND BASED REGIMENTS OF FOOT, 1820-1920 - so I'm currently reading my way through all 500+ pages of that. It has a case study on the 93rd and lots of interesting information about how they recruited, lived, worked, fought, etc! Amazing what the internet can bring up - things have changed hugely from when I last researched my family history back in 2002.
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There's also a Volume 2!!
https://era.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/6864
I want to read the section on the 93rd as it seemed to have a large number of recruits with the same surname (clan?) recruitments... Although Gibbons didn't seem to be one of those.
It'll keep my mind off other issues any rate!
Regards, Kevin
My neighbour is quite happy and is considering wrestling with starting his travels through the internet to RootsChat!
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Wow - Volume 2 has some great photos. Certainly enjoying this! Looking forward to hearing from him, if your neighbour starts joining in :-)