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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: heilanlassie on Sunday 23 February 14 19:40 GMT (UK)
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My great-grandmother, Christina Mackenzie, is listed as the head of the house, 17 Pulteney Street, Ullapool, on the 1911 census.
She had been widowed in 1890 and was left with three children.
By 1911, two of the children were married and away from home, leaving her with only one son at home in 1911, and he was 29 years old.
On the census, Christina, aged 64, has a boarder living with her, Alexander Macrae, aged 59, single, speaking Gaelic and English - but the strange thing is that the census states that he was born in England, and is classed as a lunatic, and doesn't seem to have employment.
Why would my great-grandmother be taking in lunatic boarders? Surely she wouldn't have been that desperate for money........(and heaven knows there was enough lunacy in her family anyway, due to the inbreeding coming from Rhearabach / Scoraig :P :P :P)
On the valuation roll of 1895, Christina is living in the same house, and is described as a widow and a pauper.
I can't find her on the 1905 valuation roll, but in 1915 and 1920, she is shown as the proprietrix of number 17 Pulteney Street.
I have found a death record, in 1918, for an Alexander Macrae, aged 66 years, who died in Pulteney Street, a single pauper. He must have been illegitimate because only his father, Philip Macrae is mentioned on the death certificate. The death was registered by D Ross, Inspector of Poor.
I did hope that Alexander might have had a stash of cash under the mattress which he had left to Christina enabling her to buy number 17 8) 8) 8)
How could I find out where this Alexander Macrae came from? Why did someone born in England speak Gaelic? Why was my great-grandmother taking in boarders, especially lunatic ones? Was a financial incentive given by the Poor Board?
A total, intriguing mystery.
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Intriguing....
I wonder whether the lodger was born in England of Scottish parents - this might explain the fact that he was a Gaelic speaker. If so, his parents might only have been in England for a very short time. Have you searched for him on other censuses?
A "lunatic" was defined as someone 'sometimes of good and sound memory and understanding and sometimes not'. So not, perhaps, as bad as it sounds.
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Hi,
Have you viewed the original or is the Census result from a transcription somewhere?The reason I ask is that on Familysearch for instance some people have a place of birth Sunderland which in fact is Sutherland and this means they show up as being born in England. :-\
Also I agree with cati. Could be Alexander's parents were Scottish and Gaelic speakers. Or he'd lived in Scotland for years.
All I can add to the "lunatic" tag is - he was bilingual!
Looby :)
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No, the census is the original image, downloaded from Scotlands People.
The plot thickens though, as I have now found Alexander Macrae in the 1901 census.
This time he is living in Market Street, Ullapool and is classed as an imbecile, born in England, speaking Gaelic and English. He is 48 years old and is a cousin to the head of the household, who is:
Alexina Mackenzie, aged 76, single, born in Ullapool, a speaker of Gaelic and English.
Also in the house is a Thomas Mackenzie, aged 60, single, general labourer, born in Lochbroom, a Gaelic speaker.
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That's the 3rd time this has come up this week! ;D
As I said in other topics:
Some terms do have a formal definition in the UK although they are no longer used :
Term Idiot IQ 0 to 25 Modern term Severe learning disability
Imbecile 25 to 50 Moderate learning disability
Feeble minded 50 to 70 Mild learning disability
Those with an IQ of less than 50 usually need care throughout life and are unlikely to educable in the formal sense
I think "lunatic" was just an all-encompassing term?
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I have found a death record, in 1918, for an Alexander Macrae, aged 66 years, who died in Pulteney Street, a single pauper. He must have been illegitimate because only his father, Philip Macrae is mentioned on the death certificate. The death was registered by D Ross, Inspector of Poor.
That doesn't make much sense- if father is listed on death certificate then why do you think he was illegitimate. The most likely reason for no mother listed is that the informant didn't have that information.
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Alexander is also on the 1871 census at the same address as 1901 with place of birth Plymouth. Head of household is Lexy Mackenzie 40 domestic servant, Mary McRae mother 60 pauper and Roy McDonald 60 a lodger and pauper. In this census he is recorded as nephew rather than cousin.
Could the place of birth suggest a naval connection re father?
William
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I have found a death record, in 1918, for an Alexander Macrae, aged 66 years, who died in Pulteney Street, a single pauper. He must have been illegitimate because only his father, Philip Macrae is mentioned on the death certificate. The death was registered by D Ross, Inspector of Poor.
That doesn't make much sense- if father is listed on death certificate then why do you think he was illegitimate. The most likely reason for no mother listed is that the informant didn't have that information.
I would tend to agree with that. It could indicate that the informant on the death certificate knew Alexander's father's name but did not know/could not remember his mother's.
Alexander is staying with a cousin called MacKenzie in 1901. I realise MacKenzie is a common name especially in that area but could it be he was also related to Christina your great grandmother?
Looby :)
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I think "lunatic" was just an all-encompassing term?
The National Archive guide "Mental Health" suggests that a "lunatic" was (as I said in an earlier post) a person who was 'sometimes of good and sound memory and understanding and sometimes not'; the term "idiot" was used to describe 'natural fools from birth'. (their words, not mine).
Mental health issues were not as well understood as they are today: for example. epilepsy was regarded as a form of insanity.
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1891 census Alexander is again residing with Alexandrina McKenzie address Market Street. He is listed as cousin but is shown as an annuitant and born in England age 36. Cannot locate him in 1861 and 1881.
William
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I have found a death record, in 1918, for an Alexander Macrae, aged 66 years, who died in Pulteney Street, a single pauper. He must have been illegitimate because only his father, Philip Macrae is mentioned on the death certificate. The death was registered by D Ross, Inspector of Poor.
That doesn't make much sense- if father is listed on death certificate then why do you think he was illegitimate. The most likely reason for no mother listed is that the informant didn't have that information.
Apolgies - senior moment ( used to have blonde moments, but I'm too old for them now ::) ::) ::) )
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Still cannot find Alexander in 1861 but found Alexandrina/Lexy McKenzie living in Market Street with mother Mary McRae ( whose age has been transcribed as 80 here). Had to laugh... Alexandrina has been transcribed as Sexy McKenzie!
William
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Still cannot find Alexander in 1861 but found Alexandrina/Lexy McKenzie living in Market Street with mother Mary McRae ( whose age has been transcribed as 80 here). Had to laugh... Alexandrina has been transcribed as Sexy McKenzie!
William
Don't you just love these transcription errors :-* :-* :-*
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Still cannot find Alexander in 1861 but found Alexandrina/Lexy McKenzie living in Market Street with mother Mary McRae ( whose age has been transcribed as 80 here). Had to laugh... Alexandrina has been transcribed as Sexy McKenzie!
William
Don't you just love these transcription errors :-* :-* :-*
Love it ;D ;D
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Superb I have to look it up now ;D
As to why she took him in as a lodger, even if related, couldn't she just have been a kindly soul :)
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The 1881. census Market street, Lochbroom, Ross & crmarty.
Lexy Mc Kenzie, Head, Gen Ser. age 35 years, F. born Ullapool,
Alex Mc Rae, Boarder, Pauper, age 25 years, M. born England.
Regards,
Jonn.
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I'm getting more and more confused..........
In the 1871 census, Lexy Mackenzie, aged 40, unmarried, born 1831 in Ullapool, is the head of the house in Market Street, Ullapool.
Also in the house are:
Mary Macrae, aged 60, unmarried, born 1811 in Ulapool.
Alexander Macrae, aged 16, unmarried, born 1855 in Plymouth.
and a lodger.
I cannot find any record for a birth in Plymouth for an Alexander Macrae.
Harking back to the death record for Alexander Macrae, when it is stated that he was the son of a Philip Macrae, a deceased sailor.
I cannot find any record for a birth or death for a Philip Macrae.
I have however found an 1851 census record, in 43 George Street, East Stonehouse - which is an area of Plymouth.
On this census are:
Mary Ann Macrae, head, aged 49, seaman's wife - born in Thurlston, Devon.
Philip GA Macrae, son, aged 11 - born East Stonehouse, Devon.
If the Alexander Macrae that I am trying to find out more about was 66 years old, when he died in 1918, he must have been born about 1852, so Philip Macrae couldn't have been his father....but then there's the Plymouth connection??????
What on earth am I looking at? Where do I go from here?
I am totally confused.
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Hello Heilanlassie,
On 1851 Census, Mary Ann Macrae is listed as Head & Seaman's Wife. Not a widow so presumably hubby is away at sea. Could her husband be a Phillip Macrae, born Scotland? Their son Phillip is 11yrs old. Son Alexander born approx. 1yr after Census. Mary Ann either dies or can't cope with 'lunatic' son so he goes to live with Phillip Snr's family in Scotland?
Could be Lexie & Phillip Snr are siblings, both children of elderly Mary Macrae?
Lots of theories & checking to do. Good luck with you search.
Regards, Dod.
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Hello Heilanlassie,
On 1851 Census, Mary Ann Macrae is listed as Head & Seaman's Wife. Not a widow so presumably hubby is away at sea. Could her husband be a Phillip Macrae, born Scotland? Their son Phillip is 11yrs old. Son Alexander born approx. 1yr after Census. Mary Ann either dies or can't cope with 'lunatic' son so he goes to live with Phillip Snr's family in Scotland?
Could be Lexie & Phillip Snr are siblings, both children of elderly Mary Macrae?
Lots of theories & checking to do. Good luck with you search.
Regards, Dod.
I still have a Mary Macrae on the 1871 census, aged 60, an unmarried pauper, living in Market Street, Ullapool.
The head of the house is her daughter, Lexy Mackenzie, aged 40, an unmarried domestic servant.
Alexander Macrae is also living with them, aged 16 - born in Plymouth - nephew of the head of house (Lexy Mackenzie)
I can't find a birth record for a Philip Macrae, senior or junior, in Scotland.
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Hello Heilanlassie,
Found these on Family Search: Marriage 1847 Devon. Philip Mccree. Spouse: Mary Ann Howell.
Birth: Philip George Alexander Mccree. Registered Apr-May-Jun 1850. East Stonehouse, Devon.
Tracked down 1851 Census, East Stonehouse on An***try. Surname transcribed as Moher. (McCree quite difficult to read) Son, Philip G.A. McCree is 11m (months) not 11yrs, so name & age fit with the above birth.
Could this be your Alexander?
Regards, Dod.
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Hi again heilanlassie,
There is also a Philip Mcree - United Kingdom Merchant Navy Seaman Records 1835- 1941 on Family Search.
This Philip was born in Ross and Cromarty in 1807
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCQG-ZGP
Might be worth trying to view this record. I'm not sure where :-\ .Maybe one of the well known family history sites?
Looby :)
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Hello Heilanlassie,
Found these on Family Search: Marriage 1847 Devon. Philip Mccree. Spouse: Mary Ann Howell.
Birth: Philip George Alexander Mccree. Registered Apr-May-Jun 1850. East Stonehouse, Devon.
Tracked down 1851 Census, East Stonehouse on An***try. Surname transcribed as Moher. (McCree quite difficult to read) Son, Philip G.A. McCree is 11m (months) not 11yrs, so name & age fit with the above birth.
Could this be your Alexander?
Regards, Dod.
This information is absolutely amazing - however, it still doesn't help me to link Alexander into my family - as always, answers just throws up more questions ??? ??? ???
I have now found an 1861 census showing that the family are living in 41 Church Street, Stepney, but this census also shows that Philip McCree (snr) was born in Scotland.
Could it be that Philip McCree (snr) was a brother to my Mary McRae who is living in Market Street, Ullapool, in 1861, with her daughter, Lexy Mackenzie?
In 1871, Alexander joins Mary McRae and Lexy in Market Street, Ullapool.
Just a point of interest - I would imagine that the family would have been more comfortable calling Philip by one of his middle names, Alexander ::)
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Hi again heilanlassie,
There is also a Philip Mcree - United Kingdom Merchant Navy Seaman Records 1835- 1941 on Family Search.
This Philip was born in Ross and Cromarty in 1807
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCQG-ZGP
Might be worth trying to view this record. I'm not sure where :-\ .Maybe one of the well known family history sites?
Looby :)
Ah - so - Philip was born in Ross & Cromarty, that's the path I now have to follow.
Don't know where to find Merchant Navy records though. Can't see them on either a*****ry, or on F*** m* P***
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Hello Heilalassie,
Finding 1861 Census & Looby's Merchant Navy info has brought you several steps forward. A definite link between Ross-shire & Plymouth through Philip Snr. His place & approx. year of birth. Also alive 1861 so, if you can find his death, it should be a proper DC not just a Parish Entry with very little info. (Unless English Certificates are different)
When I suggested the link between Mary McCrae & Philip Snr, I was expecting him to be much younger so siblings sounds much better! (Birlin' in her grave comes to mind, poor woman) Also, given Mary Ann's age, not likely to have any more children after birth of Philip George Alexander so I think Philip Jnr. 1851 & 1861 may be Alexander 1871 onwards. Could be within the family he was known by middle name Alexander to distinguish him from his father.
Just have to find how all these people are related to each other (says I).
Good Luck with the rest of your search.
Regards, Dod.
PS. I have always said with my tree that every question answered leads to two more questions!
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Hello Heilalassie,
if you can find his death, it should be a proper DC not just a Parish Entry with very little info. (Unless English Certificates are different)
Yes! They are different!
https://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_176222.pdf
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Hello KGarrad,
Thankyou for that link re: English Death Certificates. Completely different from Scottish DCs which give parents names including maiden name of mother if known.
Regards, Dod.
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Well, well, cousin 'heilanlassie' :)
You've done well with results for wee Alex. I told you this was a great site for help and only NINE minutes until you got your first reply!
I've joined in to this to keep up to date with the progress.
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Well, well, cousin 'heilanlassie' :)
You've done well with results for wee Alex. I told you this was a great site for help and only NINE minutes until you got your first reply!
I've joined in to this to keep up to date with the progress.
Regards
Chiad Fhear
Hi cuz, yes this Forum is superb. So many helpful, friendly people.
Hopefully - with all heads together - we will solve the mystery of " the lunatic " living with my great-grandmother in 1911.
There MUST be a family connection - and I won't rest until I find it :-* :-* :-*
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Can I ask is your gggrandmother's maiden name McKenzie?
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Can I ask is your gggrandmother's maiden name McKenzie?
Yes :P :P :P
My grandmother was a Mackenzie, my great-grandmother was a Mackenzie, Christina - who married a Mackenzie, Duncan.
My great-great grandmother was a Mackenzie, Catherine - who married a Mackenzie, Kenneth.
Catherine's parents were Murdoch and Janet Mackenzie (my great-great-great grandparents)
Kenneth's parents were Alexander and Margaret Mackenzie (my great-great-great grandparents)
And they all came from Lochbroom ;) ;) ;)
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;D.
I actually meant Christina....I'm trying to link her with the Mcraes/Mcrees.
It's interesting that Mary Mcrae's unmarried daughter is Alexina/Lexy McKenzie.
As I said earlier the area was brimming with McKenzies but I wonder if that's where your link is ?
A connection between Lexy and Christina?
Looby :)
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;D.
I actually meant Christina....I'm trying to link her with the Mcraes/Mcrees.
It's interesting that Mary Mcrae's unmarried daughter is Alexina/Lexy McKenzie.
As I said earlier the area was brimming with McKenzies but I wonder if that's where your link is ?
A connection between Lexy and Christina?
Looby :)
If it's of any help ???
Christina's mother, Catherine (my great-great grandmother, 1816-1889), had a brother, Simon, 1816-? who went on to marry a Janet Macrae, 1821-?, in 1848.
According to my research (which I hope is correct) Janet Macrae's parents were Donald Macrae and Ann.
Janet had two brothers (that I have found so far) Alexander, 1808-? and Donald, 1821-?
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There are an awful lot of McKenzies and Mcraes in this story ;D
I've been trying to find Mary Mcrae and Alexandrina McKenzie on the 1841 Census and so far (and with a lot of variations on spellings and abbreviations for names ) I've had no joy. I wanted to see who they were living with.
Need to call it a day now,
Good luck,
Looby :)
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There are an awful lot of McKenzies and Mcraes in this story ;D
I've been trying to find Mary Mcrae and Alexandrina McKenzie on the 1841 Census and so far (and with a lot of variations on spellings and abbreviations for names ) I've had no joy. I wanted to see who they were living with.
Need to call it a day now,
Good luck,
Looby :)
Yes, it's quite easy to lose your day, just searching for possibilities.
Thanks for your help
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Hi
Just to say that the merchant navy records are on FindMyPast. Look in the education and work section. They have transcribed Philip McRee b 1807 as born in Cromarty, Ross and Cromarty in the free search but you would need to look at the complete record to see if this was correct.
William
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I haven't been idle ::) ::) ::)
I have, however, found some more information - but still can't find the possible family connection.
I now know that Philip George Alexander McCree / McRae was born on 16 April 1850, and baptised on 15 July 1850 in the Parish of Stoke Damerel, Devon.
I also know that Philip George Alexander's parents, Mary Ann Howell and Philip McCree were married on 27 September 1847 in the Parish of Stoke Damerel, Devon.
Mary Ann Howell was a widow, and her father was stated to be Richard Williams. Philip's father was stated to be Christopher McCree.
Now I need to find out details of Mary Ann Williams marriage to Howell, and ideally, I would also like to trace details of Christopher McCree, because they might help me find the link to my Mackenzie family.
I know that Philip McCree was born in Scotland, but I can't find him on an 1841 census - but there again, I don't know if he would have been living in Scotland or England.
I'm also presuming that Philip and Mary Ann must have both died sometime between 1861 and 1871, because Philip George Alexander appears in Ullapool on the 1871 census.
Please help me someone ??? ??? ???
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Hello again
The only marriage that I can find between Mary Ann Williams and a Howell is in Monmouth in 1842 to a Charles Howell.(29 Dec 1842). The transcription is on FindMyPast as are the banns. But of course she may have married before civil registration began. There are a fair number of marriages for Mary Ann Williams in the Devon marriages on FindMyPast.
Looking at the 1841 census there is in East Stonehouse William Howell 50 Mary Howell Elizabeth Howell 15.
There is then a death for a William Howell in Apr - Jun 1847. There is a marriage for a William Howell and Mary Williams 23 Aug 1825 in East Stonehouse and then a birth for Elizabeth Howell28 May 1826 with father William Howell, a private in the Royal Marines and mother Mary.
I have now looked at the merchant navy record mentioned in my previous post. It is conceivable that it could be for your man as the places of birth seem to be mainly by county and Cromarty may refer to the entire county and not the town. The record shows voyages between 1853 and 1857. The last voyage for this Philip seems to have been in 1854 and one of them was to Lisbon? Is it worth considering that he might have died at sea or overseas?
William
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Hello again
The only marriage that I can find between Mary Ann Williams and a Howell is in Monmouth in 1842 to a Charles Howell.(29 Dec 1842). The transcription is on FindMyPast as are the banns. But of course she may have married before civil registration began. There are a fair number of marriages for Mary Ann Williams in the Devon marriages on FindMyPast.
Looking at the 1841 census there is in East Stonehouse William Howell 50 Mary Howell Elizabeth Howell 15.
There is then a death for a William Howell in Apr - Jun 1847. There is a marriage for a William Howell and Mary Williams 23 Aug 1825 in East Stonehouse and then a birth for Elizabeth Howell28 May 1826 with father William Howell, a private in the Royal Marines and mother Mary.
I have now looked at the merchant navy record mentioned in my previous post. It is conceivable that it could be for your man as the places of birth seem to be mainly by county and Cromarty may refer to the entire county and not the town. The record shows voyages between 1853 and 1857. The last voyage for this Philip seems to have been in 1854 and one of them was to Lisbon? Is it worth considering that he might have died at sea or overseas?
William
It definitely says on the marriage certificate for Mary Ann Howell to Philip McCree, that her father's name is Richard Williams, and that Philip's father's name is Christopher McCree.
I shall have to do some more research into Philip's side of the family because he is where I might find the link to my Mackenzie's.
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Hi
In a garbled way I was trying to say that William Howell may have been Mary Ann's first husband! (I missed out her age in the 1841 census on my previous post - it is35 with birth year of 1806, ages rounded down in 1841. William Howell's occupation has a letter P which might stand for pensioner).
It does seem strange that there are no possible death records for either Philip or Mary Ann - running out of variations of McRae to try!
William
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Hi
In a garbled way I was trying to say that William Howell may have been Mary Ann's first husband! (I missed out her age in the 1841 census on my previous post - it is35 with birth year of 1806, ages rounded down in 1841. William Howell's occupation has a letter P which might stand for pensioner).
It does seem strange that there are no possible death records for either Philip or Mary Ann - running out of variations of McRae to try!
William
I know what you mean by variations of McRae :P :P :P
I have done a search on Sc*******Pe**** for birth records for Philip McCree (plus all variations!!!),
with a father named Christopher, but they all give place of birth as either Glenshiel or Kintail, which is the wrong area for my Mackenzie family.
To be perfectly honest - I just cannot imagine a baby being named Philip, back in the 1800s in the Lochbroom area of Ross & Cromarty ;) ;) ;)
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Just googled Lochbroom parish and found the Family Search Wiki. It states that the OPR births for Lochbroom only exist from 1810 until 1854 and that the whereabouts of the kirk session records is "unknown".
The google search also showed a site called Ross and Cromarty Roots with lots of headstone photos on it.
William
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Just googled Lochbroom parish and found the Family Search Wiki. It states that the OPR births for Lochbroom only exist from 1810 until 1854 and that the whereabouts of the kirk session records is "unknown".
The google search also showed a site called Ross and Cromarty Roots with lots of headstone photos on it.
William
Thanks for all your help, William. I just don't know where to turn now.
When it comes to www.rosscromartyroots.co.uk, if you look on the main page, under contributors and look for Carol Bell (me) - you will see a photo of a headstone for Mary Mackenzie, who was my great-grand-aunt. She died in 1877.
I found her headstone in the Bard Buie cemetery, Dundonnell, after a long hike. Her headstone had almost fallen flat and I lay under it (yes, stupid, when I look back) and took photos in sections which were then pieced together by a very clever person on this site.
I just love doing my family research, but can get very involved and frustrated when I can't get my questions answered.
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Just an update on this posting - still no solution though. Still can't find the family link.
Mary Macrae died on 05 January 1879, at the age of 91 years (not totally convinced on that). She died in Market Street, Ullapool, and the death was registered by her daughter, Alexandrina Mackenzie. Mary's parents were stated to be Farquhar Macrae and Ann Munro.
Alexandrina Mackenzie died on 10 April 1906, at the age of 67 years. She was stated to be illegitimate, and her mother was listed as Mary Macrae, deceased. Her father was (reputed) to be Kenneth Mackenzie, fisherman. Alexandrina's death was registered by Thomas Dawson, Red Row, Ullapool, who stated himself to be a " close relative ".
I then traced this Thomas Dawson, and discovered his death certificate which shows that he died on 14 July 1906, at the age of 59 years. He died at West Terrace, Ullapool. He was married to Annie Hatcher.
Thomas' parents were Benjamin Dawson and Isabella Macrae
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Is this the link?[/color]
Anybody got any ideas?