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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Corbeliere on Sunday 02 March 14 14:18 GMT (UK)
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Hi Rootschat.
I am new to the forum but have done a couple of weeks searching my tree on Ancestry.
I have a date of birth for my great great grandfather, he was born in 1829 in Paddington according to the 1841 census. His name was Alfred Windeler.
In that census he was at 'Church Fields Academy' in Greenwich, aged 12.
Unfortunately I can't find any other info' prior to the census, like parents, birth, etc.
I can't find any info' about the academy either but I am looking into that.
Does anyone know if birth records would exist for Paddington at that time and if so, how do I proceed from here.
Many thanks. Les.
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Hello & welcome to rootschat :)
The surname sounds a little german [though obviously would have been entered phoneticallyso could have been Windle, Windale etc], so perhaps he was NOT actually born in Paddington. Institutions did not always know the places of birth of their 'inmates' or the child themselves did not know exactly. Doesn't mean to say the combined might of rootschatters won't find him for you though.
There might be baptism records for Paddington churches on various websites - it looks as though you have already tried ancestry?
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Hi, welcome to Rootschat.
Is he the Alfred Windeler who moved to Lancashire? If so he appears in later censuses with his wife Sarah Jane and gives his as birth Paddington. Another way to find his father would be to find his marriage to Sarah Jane and hope that the certificate gives his father's name.
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I can't find any info' about the academy either but I am looking into that.
Welcome to RootsChat.
The Academy could be The Green Coat School, endowed in 1672, for the maintenance, clothing and instruction of 20 poor boys, was situated in Church Fields Greenwich, "Greenwich; its history, antiquities, improvements, and public buildings 1834" http://www.rootschat.com/links/0y95/
Stan
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A posting here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0y96/
suggests the archives of The Green Coat School may be kept by The Draper's Company & gives a website address. Stan's link shows that 'the management of the school is vested in The Draper's Company' in 1834.
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Thanks for the help so far folks, a wonderful response.
Yes, the name is German, from the Niedersachsen area. Possibly Bremen.
Alfred did indeed move up north to Chorlton Manchester and married Sarah Jane Chorley. I will continue to look for more info' on their marriage.
Interesting comment about the Drapers company as one of the Windeler's was a Tailor/Draper in London.
Onwards and upwards.
Many thanks. Les.
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Hi Les,
I've had a look for a Baptismal entry for your Alfred on the FindMyPast Site, - but nothing that seems to fit... Likewise on the LDS Site. (The LDS Site has his Birth as Paddington, 1830).
Your best bet is per Groom's suggestion, - & to obtain the Marriage Cert, which should give his Father's name and Occupation.
Best of luck, Romilly.
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Thanks Romilly.
I seem to be going round in circles trying to find a marriage certificate but will keep at it.
Regards. Les.
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Just a thought - Alfred and Sarah Jane do a fair amount of wandering around the country. ;D
1851 - Alfred is in Manchester, a boarder - 21 and unmarried - I haven't looked for Sarah Jane Chorley.
1861 - Alfred and Sarah J, plus James (2) are in Cornwall - James born Newcastle on Tyne - registered Newcastle T,10b, page 67 in March quarter 1859
As I cannot see any marriage in FreeBMD between 1851 and 1861 in England and Wales - could they have married in Scotland? :-\
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Hi BumbleB.
You are right about them travelling around. I never thought about Scotland but I did think about Ireland.
I will see what your suggestion turns up.
Many thanks. Les.
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I've now found Sarah Jane at home in Hulme - and almost within spitting distance of Alfred ;D
66 Erskine Street, Hulme (page 18 of 55 - where Alfred is page 7 at 4 Cedar Street, Hulme)
James Chorley - 40 - Engraver to Calico Printers and Beer Retailer - born Warrington
Elizabeth - 39 - born Greenfield, Flintshire
Sarah J - 17 - Sempstress, born Manchester
Catherine - 15 - ditto
Mary A - 12 Sempstress born Salford
William E - 8 - born Liverpool
Elizabeth 2 - born Manchester
Added: I've now found the reference HO107/2221 folio 117 page 17
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Hi again.
Yes, that's them.
I have searched all of the marriage info' for all of the world on the Ancestry site but have had no luck.
I wonder, as their child James was aged 2 during the 1861 census when they lived in Cornwall, did they get married in that area.
Regards. Les.
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I looked on SP too, found nothing. They might have taken the opportunity of wandering around to NOT get married ;) - cheaper that way & no-one would know.
Sounding a bit pessimistic I know, but if Alfred was taken into the Green Coat School he may have been an orphan or illegitimate, and not known who his father was to name on a marriage certificate anyway.
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His birth was registered in Newcastle on Tyne - which gave me the idea of the possibility of Scotland. I've had a quick look on Scotlands People and there don't appear to be any matches for either Chorley or Windeler.
Perhaps, like so many others, they never got round to getting married. :-\
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Thanks Josey and BumbleB.
I hadn't thought about them not being married. I must be old fashioned!
In the 1841 census there were 3 other 'Windeler' families in London by the look of it.
I have tried to cross reference them but without luck so far.
Thanks again. Les.
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I hadn't thought about them not being married. I must be old fashioned!
It was actually pretty common!
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Yes, - it was more common than you might think!
I spent years looking for a Marriage for my GreatGrandparents, - but there wasn't one, - my GreatGrandmother just called herself by her 'husband's' name. And of course, nobody 'checks' when a Birth is registered, - and so the children are registered with the 'husband's' name...
Romilly :)
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Maybe a long shot considering James was born in Newcastle on Tyne, but, there is a groom missing from this entry.
Sarah Chorley
Date of Registration:
Jul-Aug-Sep 1859
Registration district:
Williton
Inferred County:
Somerset
Volume Number:
5c
Page Number:
521
Records on Page:
Name
Sarah Chorley
George Langdon
Mary Ann Poole
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Thanks.
It makes sense I suppose. Makes it difficult to track back the family roots though.
Still, it filled today with detective work.
Cheers. Les.
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Thanks Jaywit.
Sarah would have been about 25 then so probably an age at which she would marry.
Regards. Les.
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Heres one of their childrens christenings from Lancs opc
Kate Windeler
26th March 1863
St James.Birch in Rusholme
Abode-Park Grove
Parents-Alfred (occ-Bricklayer ) and Sarah Jane
Welsh Lady
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Thank you welsh lady.
I have Kate on my tree but the dob was a year out so I will update my info'.
Alfred and Sarah had 5 children in all.
Regards. Les.
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Youre welcome.
Check out Lancs opc site Sarah Jane Chorleys christening is on there to
Welsh lady
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OK. Thanks again.
Les.
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I have Kate on my tree but the dob was a year out so I will update my info'.
Dont forget that was the Christening Welsh Lady gave you, not the birth.
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Thanks groom.
I had her being born after she was christened so at least I have the year right I think.
Regards. Les.
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Hi
This Sarah Chorley married George Langdon 20 Aug 1859 Sampford Brett
claire
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I thought it was a long shot ;D but at least it can be discounted.
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Les Have you noticed in 1891 that Alfred and Sarah J appear to be living apart although within a few doors of each other? Sarah is with daughter Kate Ingram and Alfred ( Windle ) is a boarder a few doors away ( on the same page )
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Thanks jaywit.
No, I hadn't noticed that, although they did have a son also named Alfred.
I will have a look.
Regards. Les.
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What you've got isn't a dead end, yet. You've a lot to check up and around, some good help from people here, and good material to work with. You seem to have got a long way if you've only been working on it a few weeks, especially.
I took a couple of years to work back to a very similar sounding dead end, in 1860s - and I've never broken past it in the last 5 or so years. You will probably get through yours.
Follow up those leads you've been given, you'll be amazed where they take you. Look for brothers and sisters of your main quarry at each generation, and trace them back too - it's amazing how one will provide one detail, another will give you another snippet of information, put them together carefully - and CROSS CHECK always before accepting things as gospel.
Early on I let an "of course this must be the one..." lead me up a blind alley, until information garnered that way made me look at that person again, and - no, he was a cousin of "my" man.
And don't believe what you may see on trees available on Anc*stry!! There are some lovely howlers on ones that I've seen linked to some of my people - people marrying before they were born, producing children from 18 right through to 67 - including several who lived through to adulthood apparently with the same first names(!) popping up with a different wife, age, birthplace and job in a totally different area of the country in one census only, then resuming their previous identity - and all recorded as "Fact"!
You're in the early stages of what I assure you everyone on here will tell you is a fascinating, absorbing interest, in the course of which you will learn a great deal about more than your family tree. Happy hunting!
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Excellent advice ;D
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Yes, very well put & supportive. I would add that it's important to keep a secure note of the reference for each item of information.
And yes, many of us have probably made the same mistake, I certainly have.
Josey
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Thanks for all of the kind words and advice.
I will definitely persevere.
I usually only get Sundays to do research as I am fully occupied renovating an 800 year old place that I own in France. Oddly enough, I have the family tree of the previous owners going back those 800 years with one family owning it for 500 years. Amazing.
Best wishes. Les.
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Well, then, that tree gives you something to aim for! You could always see if it checks out without any "fairytales" in there, too, if you feel short of fun things to do when you get "restorer's cramp". Seriously, you'll get the best help possible from kind people on this site.
When you feel your head is about to bang itself on wall - put it to people here. they (almost) never fail to sort you out, without making you feel too dim - even when you realise you have been! Keep working on it.
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Les Have you noticed in 1891 that Alfred and Sarah J appear to be living apart although within a few doors of each other? Sarah is with daughter Kate Ingram and Alfred ( Windle ) is a boarder a few doors away ( on the same page )
Hi jaywit.
I have had a look at that and found that it is Alfred the son who is boarding.
I don't know what happened to the Alfred, Sarah's husband, in the 1891 Census as I have his death as Jan 1893.
More searching then.
Regards. Les.
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Maybe a long shot considering James was born in Newcastle on Tyne, but, there is a groom missing from this entry.
Sarah Chorley
Date of Registration:
Jul-Aug-Sep 1859
Registration district:
Williton
Inferred County:
Somerset
Volume Number:
5c
Page Number:
521
Sarah Chorley
George Langdon
Mary Ann Poole
Not so much as a groom missing,but the fact that Mary Ann Poole should read page 527.
I have informed Free BMD of the error.
Carol