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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: mickmack1942 on Sunday 02 March 14 15:05 GMT (UK)
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Can any one help please, I poss have a William F Cox bn 1827 India, living in the civil parish of
Row/Rhu Dunbartonshire, the Ancestry info gives it as RD Row, ED 9A, H.SCh 44, I need to know
if he was a widower, as I am trying to find the death of his wife Anna Maria and narrow the time to
look for her death, as there seem to be a few Anna's Cox's about.
regards ...mick
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Hi Mick
It says he is 'unm' - unmarried.
Could be an error but the enumerator is using 'widow' to describe his sister Eliza who's living there so the word is clearly known to him ;) .
Thanks
Ruth
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Mick, do you have a maiden surname for wife Anna Maria? If she died in Scotland, you can search with both married and maiden surnames which can make it easier to search.
Did William and Anna Maria have a son William L Cox, born c. 1855 in Madras and studying in Fife in 1871?
Monica
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Old post here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=55571.0
Mentions William F Cox remarrying, although does't make sense with both years quoted being 1857:
On September 27 1857 at St Thomas's, Braddan, Isle of Man he married Anna Maria Daniel. This lady was Robert's mother. William Frederick married again, Eugenie Ugna Cannon in 1857. A year earlier their son John Frederick had been born.
This is corrected later in the next post by Lesanne.
Also adding this further link with further info, if you haven't come across it as yet www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=591054.0
Monica
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Just going to post an item when all that other info appeared, very interesting, any way William F was married to Anna Maria Daniel (s) on the IOMan in 1857 and he then went on to marry a Eugenia Ugna Cannon in Lambeth London in 1878, it would seem that the William F in Rhu in Scotland is my man, as was picked up the sister Eliza at the same address, but why unmarr is
puzzle, but there again the census's are an enigma, its the info between the lines, looking at all
the work some others have done need closer inspection, there might be some good info there,
another point did Anna die in Scotland or India , I cannot find a good match for the death, or perhaps she did not die there marriage broke up and that would be a fair reason for him to be
unmarr, a bit of a sore point.
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I can't see a likely death for her in Scotland between 1857-1877 :-\
Was there only one child from the marriage? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGZD-3K3 Where was son Robert for 1871?
Monica
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Hi Monica, yes that's all I got alas, as I said poss the marriage broke up and they went there own ways, there are to many Anna Maria's dyeing in this period and as they moved about a lot, will have to put it on the back burner like a great many others, many thanks to all for your help..mick
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On the Scottish side, re death, as I mentioned earlier, unlikely (but never say 100% ::)) that Anna Maria died there. You can search with both her surnames (Cox and Daniel) leaving out first names if need be, and nothing showed.
Hard one for you at this point.
Monica
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I don't have access England/Wales records but where was he in 1861 Census?
Don
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Hi Don,
They got marr on the IOMan in 1857, had Robert William in 1858 in India, so assuming they were there in the 1861c, I have no idea if the 1861c was taken that far out, perhaps some one knows, if the Will Fred in Scotland is mine, it seems likely, in the 1871c and was remarr in Lambeth London in 1878 poss reg office, as he was a Lt Col in the army at retirement there should be some were a fair bit of info about him, but were I know not...mick
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Not sure if this helps you with placing location of W F (first year indicated is that of the relevant issue of the London Gazette):
1862: To be Captains: William Frederick Cox. Dated 27th April, 1858
www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/22621/pages/2231
1865: Captain William Frederick Cox, Royal Artillery.
Dated 7th June, 1864.
www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/22986/pages/3357
1868: Captain (local Major) William Frederick Cox, Royal
Bengal Artillery, to be Major, in succession to
.Lieutenant-General William Henry Marshall,
Bengal Infantry, deceased. Dated 30th January,
1868.
www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/23419/pages/4832
Monica
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WOW Monica.....
Now that's fantastic, that fills a few gaps in W F's life, I guessed that there mast be some info
out there about him retiring as in the scot census of him being a Lt Col in 1871, but it still does
not explain the marr status, he was probably involved with the India Mutiny, as I said before
his army record must be some where, its probably in Kew.
Thanks Monica..............mick
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Working with my son's notebook as mine is in for a service...so struggling a bit here (not complaining though, glad to be online at all :P).
DIVORCE :o in 1862. Very unusual for the times and may go a long way to explaining why W F considered himself 'unmarried' maybe? Specially as it was WF who applied for it (but in those times, that does not mean the same as in later years or today)....although, maybe seeing mention of a co-respondent ::) would make me think that perhaps Anna Maria may have been having an affair :-X
Divorce Court File: C112. Appellant: William Frederick Cox. Respondent: Anna Maria Cox. Co-respondent: [...] Doyne. Type: Husband's petition [hx].
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C7971131
Mike, these papers are not available to download as they are not digitised and would require you to contact them to arrange for a copy set to be sent to you or for someone to visit TNA.
Likely there will be army papers for him at Kew. Senior officiers papers don't normally show on the online catalogue so hard to get the references for him this way.
Will, have you tried searching for this?
Monica
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OK....a bit if a chance here...but just tried searching for an "anna maria" and "doyne"...and wow, there may be something to follow up (how I don't know yet).
Have a look at this info here http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cmricha/fam4315.html
Needs more work for sure and early days...
Monica
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The Doyne and Daniel family links show here www.thepeerage.com/p38364.htm
Not surprisingly, none of the online research I can see (like a/try trees etc) make any mention of first marriage for Anna Maria. She married in 1857 and likely first marriage only lasted a little time...before divorce etc. She was young etc...maybe nothing was ever made of her first marriage with her second family?
From other trees (not much detail on them unfortunately), her death is given as:
Anne Maria (Nanny) Daniel/David born about 1836 and d. 1916 in St George Hanover Square, London, England (vol. 1a/pg 407). I know, I don't get the Nanny or David from that...hopefully all will become clear ::) at some point.
Her second husband:
Richard Vigors Doyne Birth 19 Oct 1824 in Old Leighlin, County Carlow, Ireland and Death 1 Jan 1897 in London, Middlesex, England
Mordaunt Berners Doyne born about 1864 in Calcutta, India and Death 9 May 1913 in Greater London, London, Middlesex, England
Monica
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Whilst WF was an 'unmarried man' up North in 1871...at the same time in 1871 in London is this entry at St George Hanover Square:
Richard Doyne 46 Barrister at Law b. Ireland
Nannie Doyne 29 b. Ireland
Winifred Doyne 9 b. at sea (from online tree...At Sea, Sulawesi Tengah, Indonesia)
Mordaunt Doyne 7 b,. Bangal...couldn't figure out sex from name :P...it was son :D
...and full house of 6 servants
The girls liked to marry young (and boy in this case ::)):
Winifred in 1881 in Essex:
SIR Philip M. Sir Payne 22 Baronett b. Sussex Hastings
Winifred Payne 19 wife b, At Sea
Sophy Macmehy 13 cousin
....and six staff
Monica
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One is a bit perplexed, so the oddity of unmarr in the 71c is explained due to the divorce, by saying
unmarried saves a lot of awkward questions and answers, will look into getting a copy of this event
if not to expensive, might be cheaper to go to Kew and look up other stuff to boot, I have Anna being bp in Spitalfields London 1.10.1837, the fathers name is the same as on the marriage cert
when Anna marr WF ,so every reason to believe this is mine, according to the Peerage site Anna Marr in 1861ish some thing to look into, if my Anna 1837 is correct and was marr in 1857, its a bit tight
but there again just the other day I had a girl marr at 16 ! so what do I know, life was short and hard, I am gobsmacked with all the info you all have found, this is becoming a bit complicated
in FS there's a marr for a Richard vigors to a Nanny Daniel in India 13.2.1864 ..(Nanny ) ! why nanny, its the dates that are confusing the issue.
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The Anna bp I found in Spitalfields with father William Henry Daniel, he listed himself as a painter ?
by the way, this Nanny was supposedly born in Ireland, just did some digging on FS they have found only one Anna, that's the one in Spitalfields 1837 , so a bit betwixt an between.
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Did any one get/see good detail of the IOM marr in 1857 was Anna's father listed as a painter.
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mick, I am back. My laptop is now feeling spanking new and quick! Sheer joy ;D
Re that 1857 marriage in IOM, I thought the second post here had great detail www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=591054.0
William H Daniel (or Daniels) was Irish born magistrate + landed proprietor - living at 31 Derby Square Douglas in 1861 - I think in 1857 he had rented Derby Castle (later turned into a dancehall - see www.manxnotebook.com under Douglas) and in 1863 possibly at Oakhill (also see manxnotebook) - all his children were Irish born - not on Island in 1851 - no burial on Island and family appears to have removed by 1871
Suspect groom had no connection with IoM
On the same thread, there was also:
Marriage no. 8 / 22nd Sept . 1857 St Thomas , Douglas part of Braddan parish.
"William Frederick Cox / of full age/ Bachelor / Captain in Bengal Artillery/ Finch Road, Douglas//Father Thomas Cox/
Lieut. Colonel//
Anna Marie Daniel /Minor / Spinster / Derby Castle,Onchan/ Father William Henry Daniel / Esquire--"
Signed in presence of Maxwell Fleming / Mila Daniel / Sam Pollock JP / Mary Smyth Coltor
Vicar---- Samuel Simpson
Where did the London birth possibility come in for Anna Maria?
I do think from all the sources above that your Anna Maria was Irish born and fitting what we have in the divorce papers and connections to Doyne.
Marriage entry will be interesting that you have found: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGFB-XNS
I am wondering whether for propriety sake the marriage year was quoted as earlier than it actually was? The divorce papers that we have at TNA were not until 1862. Maybe Winifred was born (at sea - Sulawesi Tengah, Indonesia) in 1861/2 before parents Anna Maria/Nanny and Richard Doyne married?
Monica
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Hi Monica.
By the time you start putting loads of junk files etc on your machine that will slow it down....
but any way to other things, I found Anna's bp in the east end, but she is not in the BMD being that close to the start of things is not really an issue, from another direction if Anna was born in
Ireland and bp over here is a bit of a step to far, why, born in Ireland bp in London and then to the IOM, why not there, the Anna I found in London is that mine, is it just a coincidence that the names were the same for her father as the Irish family, because the occupation of the London papa was recorded as a painter not a magistrate, weird or what, Have we got the name of Anna's mother in all this the one in London was Mary Ann.
When Anna got marr she was listed as a minor the way I see that is she was under 21, did we find Anna with Doyne in any census in all this, that might give idea of her age give or take, there's so much info here trying to disseminate it all, lots of links to other avenues, I confused.
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Just googled the name Naunce it seem genuine but no origin, I have to think that the London Anna is just a coincidence, by all that's coming out about this family I'll have to go back to basics and rebuild her early life, if I can find it that is, would like to get a look at the divorce papers though a bit long winded to get copies, could be interesting.
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mick, daft question at this stage...what is your connection to this lot?! Helps with placement, facts etc.
Monica
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Re 'Nanny', my favourite first name site in the world is this one www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=nanny
Nanny to Anna Maria makes sense to me... ;)
Monica
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Morning Monica.
Relationship to all this..mm ..let me think, my wife's mother was a Pringle who marr a Whithead,
a Whitehead marr a Toonie Cox who's father was Robert William Cox, bn India, his father was William
Frederick Cox who is/was the instigator for all this research, so if I have it right its my wife's great-great grandfather, the name oddities in this family might stem from there life in India, that site for name meanings looks useful, I'll make note of it, will have a go at finding the divorce papers also the assizes issue with the Cannon girl in Berkshire, that turned up in a NZ newspaper? 1903,
any way many thanks for all your help, regards.....mick
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This request has been completed thanks to all...mick
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Have a look for blanc (username). From memory... They were with the same Cox line as Toonie.
:) Lesanne
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=55571.msg223175#msg223175
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Morn Lesanne
Well that's some more info for the picture of this family, the user 'blanc' seems familiar I think
that's the wife's cousin he was closer to Toonie and working on there side of things, but any way
many thanks for picking up on that item,
regards....mick