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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Tim Brayshaw on Friday 14 March 14 11:39 GMT (UK)
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sgf28 was kind enough to help me research a family that didn't belong to me, so now i have found a trail for the correct ones.
Mary Ellen Shepherd b1840, Sheffield.
I found their 1841 census record. The father is down as Josh Shepherd, and Mary Ellen is just down as Ellen and in Sheffield. (Her birth in 1840 was registered from Upper Allen Street which is also a match)
Her parents are called Joseph Shepherd (John Joseph on her marriage certificate) and Mary nee Holden.
I can't find a 1851 or 1861 census hit for Mary Ellen or the parents for that matter. I have tried many variations search in the past 30 minutes or so with no luck.
When Mary Ellen Shepherd married in 1864 she was living on Devonshire Street.
I am just hoping to push this line back on both sides, so trying to find accurate birth dates for her parents and such.
I think i've found the right family this time ;)
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Hi
There is a Helen Sheppard living at 255 Upper Allen Street in 1851 with mother Mary,widow and others including Marys mother Elizabeth Hallett.
HO107/2339 869/46
If you think this might be your Ellen then she is living with her Grandmother Elizabeth in 1861.
Cathy
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In 1861 Ellen is living with her grandmother Elizabeth Hallett RG09 piece 3485 folio 91 page 49
Living at Court Upper Allen St, Sheffield and listed as a house servant
Kay
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Hi
There is a Helen Sheppard living at 255 Upper Allen Street in 1851 with mother Mary,widow and others including Marys mother Elizabeth Hallett.
HO107/2339 869/46
If you think this might be your Ellen then she is living with her Grandmother Elizabeth in 1861.
Cathy
Thank you for your help! Well that is odd. Looks like a definite match however my birth certificate says her mother's maiden name was Holden. Hallett seems like a little distance from that name unless she remarried or something.
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In 1861 Ellen is living with her grandmother Elizabeth Hallett RG09 piece 3485 folio 91 page 49
Living at Court Upper Allen St, Sheffield and listed as a house servant
Kay
Many Thanks! This seems to be coming together quite nicely.
So Joseph's death between 1841-1851, and Mary Holden's mother having a Hallett as a surname. I'm going to look at Mary Ellen's birth certificate again and see if i can make Hallett out of the writing.
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Just a note...on Mary Ellen Shepherd's marriage certificate her father is down as a metalsmith John Joseph Shepherd, but it doesn't say he is deceased. But if her mother was a widow in 1851 and she married in 1864 surely it would be marked on the marriage certificate?
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hi
it appears to be the same family as in 1841, neighbours names are similar and son John was a metal smith like his possible father.
Marriage certificates did nt always specify whether father was alive or deceased unfortunately.
Cathy :)
did wonder about Hallett perhaps Elizabeth remarried.
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In 1841 Census
Same page (well opposite) in Allen Street, as Mary, Joseph, Ellen etc , there is George and Elizabeth Allott both 60 .
Cathy
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hi
it appears to be the same family as in 1841, neighbours names are similar and son John was a metal smith like his possible father.
Marriage certificates did nt always specify whether father was alive or deceased unfortunately.
Cathy :)
did wonder about Hallett perhaps Elizabeth remarried.
I would agree that it's the same family, im just surprised they lived in the same house if not the same street for 20 years or so. Elizabeth must have died between 1861-1864 when Mary Ellen got married as she was living on Devonshire Street and no longer with her grandmother. Not that i can find a death for an Elizabeth Hallett at that time however.
It's rather a hard one to research. I can't push the father any further back Joseph Shepherd because there is no baptism around 1811 to find his parents. It seems Joseph Shepherd and Mary were married before the registration period so won't be able to find his father's name from there, or hers.
Mary Holden doesn't seem to exist there either in 1811 for a birth/baptism from what i can see.
What a mystery!
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Just a note...on Mary Ellen Shepherd's marriage certificate her father is down as a metalsmith John Joseph Shepherd, but it doesn't say he is deceased. But if her mother was a widow in 1851 and she married in 1864 surely it would be marked on the marriage certificate?
A couple of points here:
Did the registrar ask if her father was dead or alive?
And/or did Mary volunteer the information?
Absence of the word "deceased" unfortunately doesn't mean anything! ;D ::)
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Just a note...on Mary Ellen Shepherd's marriage certificate her father is down as a metalsmith John Joseph Shepherd, but it doesn't say he is deceased. But if her mother was a widow in 1851 and she married in 1864 surely it would be marked on the marriage certificate?
A couple of points here:
Did the registrar ask if her father was dead or alive?
And/or did Mary volunteer the information?
Absence of the word "deceased" unfortunately doesn't mean anything! ;D ::)
True enough, im just used to seeing 'Deceased' on the marriage certificates i have ordered, if it is the case. Maybe my family are just morbid people who usually offer that information voluntarily ;)
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I know this is reviving an old topic, but i have come back to this side of my family tree and wondering if any fresh eyes could break through this brick wall.
We were left unable to find out;
Baptism for Mary Holden b1811 in Sheffield
- Possible find on familysearch
Name: Mary Holden
14 Apr 1811
CATHEDRAL SAINT PETER,SHEFFIELD,YORK,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 24 Mar 1811
Father's Name: Samuel Holden
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Why her mother was Elizabeth Hallett and not Holden - even though we can't find her marriage to a Hallett. Or a death for that matter when she was 83 in 1861, Sheffield.
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There is a marriage between May 1830 and July 1831 at SS Peter & Paul Sheffield (later cathedral) for Joseph SHEPHERD and Mary HOLDEN.
(This is from the index compiled by S&DFHS)
Angela
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There is a marriage between May 1830 and July 1831 at SS Peter & Paul Sheffield (later cathedral) for Joseph SHEPHERD and Mary HOLDEN.
(This is from the index compiled by S&DFHS)
Angela
Thank you for your reply, is it possible to review this online? Or is this only viewable at a records office?
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There's a NBI for an Elizabeth Allott on 7 May 1863 aged 86 (birth 1777), Crookes St Thomas, Sheffield
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There's a NBI for an Elizabeth Allott on 7 May 1863 aged 86 (birth 1777), Crookes St Thomas, Sheffield
Nicely found, definitely seems to fit in. I have been looking for a while now for what must have been her second marriage to someone called Allott from when she was a Holden.
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The Mary Holden baptism referred to in reply #11 has Samuel's occupation as "opticion" (sic)
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The Mary Holden baptism referred to in reply #11 has Samuel's occupation as "opticion" (sic)
That's a nice revelation. I'm a Manager of an opticians. Which site would I have to view to see the parish register image?
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If this is your ancestor, what a coincidence! FindMyPast has started to upload the Yorkshire Parish records, and has some of the Bishop's Transcripts for Sheffield.
There's also a NB1 burial for a Samuel Holden 7 Dec 1818 aged 43 at Sheffield St Peter St Paul.
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If this is your ancestor, what a coincidence! FindMyPast has started to upload the Yorkshire Parish records, and has some of the Bishop's Transcripts for Sheffield.
There's also a NB1 burial for a Samuel Holden 7 Dec 1818 aged 43 at Sheffield St Peter St Paul.
I've just found that one as well, but I'm not sure what to think about it. I haven't got any hard evidence about his time of birth or anything. Whereas i knew Mary Holden was born 1811 in Sheffield, her record is more than likely.
I guess with the time this is at, i can't get any more details.
If this is Mary's father's death, then her mother Elizabeth would have married again between 1818-1841 where she turns up as an Allott. Haven't found that record just yet however.
Would Samuel Holden the Optician be in any Trade Directory with an occupation like that?
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His birth would be circa 1775 and Elizabeth 1777 so "a potential". Would be good to find an Elizabeth Holden marrying a George Allot though.
Worth searching the Directory databases on Sheffield Indexers and Sheffield Records Online.
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This is the extra information given in the burial register.
HOLDEN Samuel 7 Dec 1818 aged 43 of Sheffield,Bailey Lane, Occupation:brass turner. SS Peter & Paul (Cathedral)
Angela
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This is the extra information given in the burial register.
HOLDEN Samuel 7 Dec 1818 aged 43 of Sheffield,Bailey Lane, Occupation:brass turner. SS Peter & Paul (Cathedral)
Angela
Probably not the same man then. Going from an Optician to a Brass Turner, is a bit of a leap.
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I wouldn't dismiss totally. I have an ancestor in Sheffield and their occupation on census returns changed from "optician" to "glass grinder" and vice versa throughout all the census returns. I assumed he was an optical instrument maker. On this basis, Samuel Holden could have been a brass turner making optical instruments.