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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: little alison on Monday 24 March 14 13:36 GMT (UK)
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I have a small piece, round and 8" across in total, of framed embroidery of roses, has come from my family, is obviously old, how old I don't know. The back is browned paper and is handwritten
“Murdock-McCrorie
Framer
Phone -19-598”
The frame is plaster (I think), painted gold and red with a plaster bow at the top.
The phone number does limit the date, but I have never found one like that.
It possibly isn't even Scottish, but......
Can anyone help?
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Could you possibly post a picture of both the front and back?
Whereabouts in Scotland might your family have been living?
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I can take pictures, but uploading them is another matter......can I put them on this thread?
Family in Glasgow, Dumbarton, Alloa in 19C - but after 1890 went all over the world.......
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Yes, you can post the pictures here. I can't find the instructions I was looking for on how to do this, but this might help:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=459330.0
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Phone -19-598”
Until the 1960s UK phone numbers had alphabetical letters as part of the number. So Dumbarton 1234 was DUM 1234, etc. So if this phone number has no letters and pre-dates 1960 it’s probably not a UK number.
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Hopefully I am getting some help in uploading two photos.
As I said I am not sure the item is Scottish - but the names certainly are!
I am asking my sister, who gave it me, if she knows any more about it.
I remember the old phone nos, which changed when I lived in London....this is why I wondered about the origin.
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Adding these two photos for little alison:
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Hi,
I don't think the first 2 are numbers 19.
I think they are initials.
Looby :)
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Blown up that section Looby now:
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I just posted and it hasn't appeared!
I said, thank you so much for this Monica, very quick.
I have another slightly clearer photo of the label, is it needed?
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That would help now. Why don't you email it to me?
Thinking also that the way the label is written, it may be a partnernship of a Murdock and a McCrorie rather than a man called Murdock McCrorie, which is what I was looking for!
Monica
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Sorry, lost internet connection for some time there ???
Now I'm not so sure about those first 2 numbers/initials.
I'm going to polish up my specs ;D
Looby
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Throwing in another spanner -
does it say McCrone or McCrorie.
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:-[ :-[
You have the name as McCrorie.
I must get new reading glasses!
Sorry
An embarrassed and myopic Looby
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I've sent the third pic to Monica.
I forgot to say that the sewing is protected by thin glass.
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i have been looking things up, and the sewing seems to be the type called needlepoint.
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Alison, this is the latest photo you sent:
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Does look like Phone 49-598 or 19-598...
Monica
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Thanks Monica.
But sorry, this isn't much clearer, is it?
What does everyone make of the whole thing?
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Until the 1960s UK phone numbers had alphabetical letters as part of the number. So Dumbarton 1234 was DUM 1234, etc. So if this phone number has no letters and pre-dates 1960 it’s probably not a UK number.
I wouldn't bet on that. It was quite common to see adverts in local shops etc with just the numbers. What would make me question the number is that it has too many digits!
Our home phone number when I was a child had just the town name and two digits. If you wanted to phone someone in Dumbarton you asked the operator to get you 'Dumbarton 1234' or whatever the number was.
The first big change was that our two-digit number was turned into a four-digit one. That made it possible to have automatic dialling, but I think you still had to ask the operator for long-distance numbers.
I had a friend who lived in Kirkcaldy, and the code for Kirkcaldy was OKY2 - which when dialling went all numeric became 0592. Many places got the code that corresponded to the abbreviation for the town name - Forfar got 307 and Forres got 309, Perth got 738, and so on. Later on, the initial 1 was added, and later still all numbers were converted to a five-digit code and six-digit number.
I don't think there was ever a time when numbers had just two digits followed by 3 digits.
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Nice to see the photos. :)
Yes, it's old, but I wouldn't hazard a guess at age as I think it would be difficult to estimate, as style of both the work and the frame probably covers several decades - fabric looks old as does back of frame but could be as recent as 1950's (as a really rough guesstimate). And of course the needlepoint may have been sewn years before it was framed. :-\
One of the experts on the photo dating board may be able to help though.
The first number looks like a 4 to me.
The only thing I am wondering as this appears to be a hand written label, is that this could have been a very small business as they did not have commercially printed labels. And so there may be no records online them as a business.
That doesn't help you of course.
I like it. It would look very nice on my bedroom wall. ;D
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Thanks for the opinions!
1950s seems way too new to me though. I am still waiting to hear from my sister as to where it came from....she may have clues she doesn't realise she has.
Now wondering if the actual writing style is any help.
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Sorry Alison, I wasn't suggesting that this WAS 1950's, but I've seen similar backing paper on frames from a similar era (just pointing out that it is not a dating clue).I've also seen similar embroidery patterns in my local haberdashery.
Unsure if writing would be a clue ...maybe. It's written in a neat copperplate style with pen and ink, but that style of writing is hard to date too as this is the style people often use as their 'neat' writing. (including my daughter just yesterday when experimenting with pen and ink ;))
I think your initial idea about date and place estimate via the phone number is still the best idea - it's just a matter of finding someone who can help.
Lets hope your sister can shed some light on it -it might make all the difference.
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I've been trying another tack.
If I google 'needlepoint framed round' I get a pair with very similar framing (minus the bow) in the Images- but can I find them on the site!!!! No.
Frustrating.
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Is it an auction site?
Sometimes images show up on Google search but because the auction for that item is over, the item can no longer be viewed on site. :-\
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It's something called Etsy.
My sister thinks the embroidery was in my father's house when we were clearing it after he died.
He was born in Scotland.....but he had married again, and it could have come from her....I don't somehow think he would have been very keen on it! Unless it was from his parents, but I don't recollect it in their house.
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I've now discovered that there were phone nos in America like this - two digits - three numbers.
(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_number)
Rural American nos before 1933? Or before 1920? (not very specific here)
Or New York nos after 1930.......
It could be 4S-598?
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I've thought of a very possible scenario.
The one person in the family who might have liked this, as far as I know, is my Irish grandmother. My father's mother.
Who had an older brother Robert Benjamin who emigrated to the US, to New York, and actually worked at Macy's. She married in 1904 when he had already moved to New York.
A wedding present?
Or a later present.....?
Doesn't help with the date much, but this is a possible origin.
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My sister thinks this could be right. Not definite of course....but without any more info I don't think we can get any further. Thanks for input, everyone!
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Hi Alison
Please don't think you are talking into the wilderness! It is just that people can't add anything new or relevant...which is why there are no new posts.
Great that you and your sister are working through possibilities. You also know the power of the internet ::) In the future, someone may pick up on this post via a search and tell you exactly what you need to know ;D
Monica :)
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Hi Alison,
Hope you get to the bottom of your mystery. As Monica says maybe someone will come along with more knowledge regards the Framers name and the phone no. as well as the needlepoint itself.
Good luck,
Looby :)
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Thanks all - I can live with what I have got....any more will be a bonus! Alison