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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: swinno on Thursday 03 April 14 17:25 BST (UK)
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Hi,
In the GRO indexes I find a Robert Whitaker Sinnerton PICKLES,registered 1914.
Sub District Bacup Reg at Preston. Reg District Haslingden.
His mother was Rebecca Sinnerton born Glasgow 1892.
I cannot find any entry for a marriage, or even the Bap.
She is shown in the 1911 Census in Burnley as adopted living with the Cook family.
Rebecca emigrated to Canada in 1925 stated no relationship.
Can anyone see Rebecca's marriage or indeed the Bap for her son Robert?
Thanks
bswinno.
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Hi,
In the GRO indexes I find a Robert Whitaker Sinnerton PICKLES,registered 1914.
Sub District Bacup Reg at Preston. Reg District Haslingden.
His mother was Rebecca Sinnerton born Glasgow 1892.
I cannot find any entry for a marriage, or even the Bap.
I presume that there was no father mentioned on the birth certificate :-\
Rosie
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I don't have the birth certificate
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Hi Swino,
If you don't have the birth certificate why are you assuming the sub-district is Bacup? HASLINGDEN REGISTRATION DISTRICT has 7 sub-districts: Accrington, Bacup, Edenfield, Haslingden, Newchurch, Rawtenstall, Rossendale which cover quite a lot of parishes. It could be any one of these unless you have other information which you didn't post.
I think You need to order the birth cert to get the fathers name.
Peter
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The birth registration is also on the Lancashire BMD index - which shows the sub-district.
As it is indexed under PICKLES with Mmn SINNERTON, but is not also indexed under SINNERTON, I would take it that the details were given to the registrar as though the parents were married; and the father's name is shown on the certificate.
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Apparently Rebecca did marry again over in Canada to a person named Phipps.
On her application form for the crossing into America. It does state age of first marriage.
It was given as age 20 so this would have been about 1912.
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Apparently Rebecca did marry again over in Canada to a person named Phipps.
On her application form for the crossing into America. It does state age of first marriage.
It was given as age 20 so this would have been about 1912.
On the 1925 Canadian Passenger list it gives her as widowed and her mother's name as Mrs Milligan, 10 Forest Street, Mile End, GLasgow.
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1930 US Census: Queens, New York.
Archibald W Phipps, born 1898, England Parents born England.
Rebecca Phipps, born 1898, born Scotland Parents born Scotland.
Sonia, daughter, age 10, born England. Father born England, mother born Scotland.
George, son, age 9 born England. Father born England mother born Scotland.
Harold Hockedy, brother in law.
Immigration year 1927.
1940 Census alters Rebecca's birth year to 1893.
Possible death for Rebecca.
Rebecca Phipps b 10 Jan 1892, d Oct 1986 last address given as 14580 Webster, Monroe, New York, USA
Still can't find a UK marriage yet :-\
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Curious. I don't think Rebecca is the mother of Sonia and George.
Archibald Phipps married Alfreda Ada Condy in Plymouth in 1919, and the births of the two children plus one other show Mmn as Condy. Alfreda Ada Condy was born in Plymouth.
Alfreda A Phipps died in Halifax, Yorkshire in 1952. There doesn't seem to be a divorce record listed on the National Archives site:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/divorce.htm
although there could have been one later than 1937, of course.
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Thanks all for the replies,
I see there are Phipps family trees on line mapping out some of the
information already given. Still cannot find a marriage for Rebecca. It
looks like one never took place. Even looking under the different names
found so far. No result. I also cannot find one for her second given marriage
when she was in America.
I see that Rebecca was living back in Scotland in 1925. On the ships passenger list when she
emigrated it gives address 1 Kirkstyle Cott. Old Monkland. This is the area her family were living.
I am assuming that husband/partner Pickles died WW1 but cannot prove this without
a christian name. Like wise son Robert Whitaker Sinnerton Pickles. where did he end up?
Where did the Whitaker name come from?
Intriguing indeed,the search goes on.
Thanks
bswinno
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Looks like Robert Whittaker Sinnerton Pickles went to Canada in 1929
Robert Pickles age 15 arrived Quebec 27 May 1929 aboard the Athenia from Glasgow
Other details:he was born in Bacup. Sponsored by E.S.A. to do farming. Going to Cosser Farm, Lower Gagetown N.B. There are a few other boys going to this farm.
He named his grandfather as Mr John Milligan, 10 Forrest St Glasgow.
Also said neither he nor any member of his family had been to Canada.
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Cosser Farm Lower Gagetown New Brunswick
Dr. George Carter Cossar started a training farm for young men, between 15 and 20 years of age, near Stirling, Scotland.
Then in 1910,he purchased a farm in New Brunswick, near Lower Gagetown. The farm was called Cossar Farm, Receiving Home and Distributing Centre for Scotch Lads, bringing Scottish boys from difficult financial circumstances to his farm where they lived and learned Canadian farming practices. In 1928, the farm was signed over to the New Brunswick government for use of boys coming to Canada under the Empire Settlement Act.
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Wow,
Now that's very interesting I was about to check further passenger lists later
tonight, great find.
Also gives a Christian name for his grandfather. Milligan was in fact the second marriage
for Elizabeth Sinnerton nee McCord,the grandmother, and the address again is the third time it has shown up.
In fact we know know that his mother Rebecca had passed through Canada on her way to
America. I will now look to see if he followed.
Thanks
bswinno.
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Did you find Robert going to America?
Sorry if I'm duplicating :-\
Robert Pickles age 32 arrived 28 Sep 1946 Vanceboro, Maine, USA, b 13 Mar 1914 Waterford, England
Arrival Contact: Mother Mrs. Rebecca Phipp
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Well I found Robert Pickles.
Port of arrival Vanceboro, Maine, USA on 28 Sep 1946.
His visa was issued in Ottawa and valid until 30 /3/1948.
All the visa is difficult to read.
DOB given 13 Mar 1914 Waterford, England.
Occupation Farmer.
Mother Mrs. Rebecca Phipp.
Looks like he stayed as he died Nassau, New York Dec 1978.
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Yes our messages crossed
thanks
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Says Robert was visiting while in the army. He was five foot ten, black hair and brown eyes, medium complexion. Never arrested or deported.
Is a bit difficult to read isn't it? :-\
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Yes I got the visiting and description part after my last message.
Going to look and see if I can find his baptism to prove fathers name.
It now says that he was born in Waterford.
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It now says that he was born in Waterford.
Suspect that should have been Waterfoot, nr Bacup. (yes I have seen the original typed as Waterford)
Mo
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Archibald travelled over to North America a couple of times
31 August 1923 - Archibald Phipps, plater of 2 commercial Row, Plymouth departs Southampton for Quebec and Montreal
23 June 1929 - arrive Plymouth from New York with Harold Hockedy and his family. Both men are chauffeurs. Address 6 Barbican, Plymouth
Aug 29 1929 - Archibald and Harold depart Southampton for New York. address 6 Barbican, Plymouth
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for info harold is married to Archibald's sister Catherine
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Here is Archibald crossing from Canada to Us in 1927 - says married to Alfreda
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XG7V-GWP
Sonia and George Phipps appear to have travelled over alone in October 1929.
I'm intrigued as to how Plymouth based Archibald met Scottish Rebecca!
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Thanks everyone,
Some great finds in the replies.
No joy with a bap for Robert too late for the church records on line.
Yes interesting Maybel how did a Scottish girl meet Archibald from Plymouth?
Rebecca was in Burnley for the 1911 Census. That's probably were she met
? Pickles. West Lancashire name.
bswinno.
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Do let us know if you get the birth certificate. Perhaps I am being extra nosey but I have 'Pickles' in Bacup. :)
Rosie
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Rosie,
I had no luck with parish registers for any Baptism for Robert PICKLES.
As l am not directly descended from this line l am hesitant to purchase
the birth certificate. But l must admit l am curious about if there was a
named father.
bwinno
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On www.fultonhistory.com, there is an obituary for Rebecca Phipps. If you do a search for the exact phrase Rebecca W. Phipps, it should come up.
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What a very interesting site, It is a new one to me.
I was able to look at some New York Swinnerton's and Swenarton's
Thanks for the link.
It does look now that Rebecca did not marry ? PICKLES.
Also so far I have not found the marriage to Archibald Phipps.
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You're welcome.
I see Rebecca & Archibald's burials listed here -http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nygreen2/pleasant_valley_cemetery.htm
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There is no marriage of Alfreda Phipps or Condy in England and Wales after Alfreda's marriage to Archibald.
However there is a birth registered in Lambeth district in 1925 indexed under Phipps and Hill with Mmn Condy. There two more Hill births in Lambeth district in 1927 and 1929 with Mmn Condy (but no corresponding Hill/Condy marriage), and also a Phipps birth in Wakefield in 1931 with Mmn Condy.
This tends to suggest that there was no divorce
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to swimo i am replying to inquiry about robert whitaker sinnerton pickles, i am bob's step nephew. uncle bob immigrated from canada to long island, new york. his mother rebecca married my mother father. bob came to live with my parents till 1977 and then he lived with me, my wife and our children till he passed dec 1978. he was a great guy and my children really loved him. i wish i had your private email address so i can tell u more and i have family photos of bob i could share with you. i will not ask you personal questions on this forum but i can tell you are very intested in finding out more. i hope u will read this post.....g
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to swinno, i hope you will see my last post. i do not know when your first inquiry was posted, if it was a long time ago. i do have info on robert whitaker sinnerton pickles, my step-uncle who we called uncle bob. i have pictures of uncle bob and his mother rebecca who we called nana. she had beautiful snowy white hair and a beautiful scottish accent. she was my mothers stepmother but they never called her anything but mother. i guess on this forum u cant post me your email address so i can contact you. if u are directly related to bob, i can tell u that u do have half relatives that live in the u.s. g
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Hello, Swinno.
I know this is a very old thread, but I am attacking it from the Archibald William Phipps angle.
So I will await a response before I go into details.
Dave Gosling
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gbyrne and dgj145 - swinnow appears to have been online quite recently on 29 September 2021 so will hopefully receive your messages. If either of you post on the thread 3 times, you should then have the option to Personal Message(PM) swinnow using the icon below their name. Good luck and don't forget to post an update as we are all interested in seeing people's journeys to find their roots. Kit
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Hi Guys yes I am still here. How can I help?
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Hello, Swinno.
I know this is a very old thread, but I am attacking it from the Archibald William Phipps angle.
So I will await a response before I go into details.
Dave Gosling
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Hello, Well hopefully we can help each other :)
I have a Archibald William Phipps b. 1898 in Plymouth and married Alfreda Ada Condy (1899-1952) on the 3rd February 1919 in Plymouth. It is a long and confusing life that Archibald appears to have lead.
I have attached a file for you to read. Archibald eventually left for Canada and tried many times to enter the USA. He eventually did and married Rebecca Pickles/Sinnerton - though i cannot find a marriage certificate - he was apparently still married to Alfreda. Hopefully after you read the attached file, we can cross refer. i believe that the Catherine he refers to has his Sister is in fact his niece, she married Harold Hockedy. Catherine seems to have lived with her Grandparents - Archibald's parents and he may well have grown up with her and regarded her as a sister. Anyhow I will let you read the attached - take care Dave Gosling. *Not sure how we can do this more privately.
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Unable to send the file - not sure how to send it now - disappointingly
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Not sure what you're trying to send but you have both now posted 3 times so you should be able to PM one another and share personal email addresses should you wish.
Kit
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I have just sent Swinno and gbyrne a private message, with my e-mail address, hope to hear from them, soon.