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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: coombs on Thursday 03 April 14 22:21 BST (UK)
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Hi my 4xgreat uncle George Brain is in the 1861 census in Aldershot, Surrey, aged 19, in the Her Majesty's 25th Regiment, the Kings own Borderers regiment. He is listed as Soldier, a Private. His age in 1861 is slightly out as I think he was born in late 1840 as in 1841 he was 7 months old and the census was taken in June 1841.
Not proven it yet as I have not sent off for the death cert but found a death in the Sep quarter of 1862 of a George Brain in the Greenwich district. I have a feeling this could be when he died as I cannot find him in any censuses after 1861.
If he died in service would he still appear in British Army service records at all? Is there a list of soldiers who died in the Army in the 1860s? Can anyone help please?
Thanks
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hi,,if he died in service,,i believe his army service records would have been destroyed,,,he does appear in the 1861 army index as being in Aldershot.
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As GB says before WW1 they would destroy the service records of men dying in service 20 years later. Also, most of the surviving records came from old pension files. From memory you had to serve two periods of ten years service to qualify for a pension in this period – it changes often during the 19th Century. If he left after ten years they again would not have kept his record.
The best way to proceed is to follow his service using the muster books in Kew. They are not online. I can however tell you that George Brain, regimental number 497, enlisted on 7th February 1860 in Dover. He was 18 years old, 5 foot 5.5 inches tall and a ‘volunteer from the Oxford Militia’. He received a £3 bounty and his ‘bringer’ – the man who recruited him – got 14s 6d. As a Private he earned one shilling a day.
The 2nd Battalion was only reformed in December 1859 when they decided to add second battalions for all single- battalion regiments up to the 25th Foot. They got large numbers of recruits for the Regulars from the Militia. In this period the Militia came under the Lord Lt of the county, so you should ask Oxford Record Office to see what they have.
The 25th Regiment were in Fulwood barracks, Preston until Qtr 2 1860, when they moved to Aldershot. Fulwood survives to this day - http://www.lancashireinfantrymuseum.org.uk/fulwoodbarracks/
In August 1861 the 25th moved to Shorncliffe. In May 1862 they were split between Edinburgh and Gosport, and sailed to Ceylon in July 1863. In December 1867 they moved to India. While the service companies were overseas they would have kept a Depot in the UK. For the 1871 Census the 2nd Bn Depot was with the 1st Battalion in Gosport.
You have to be aware that men enlisted in the regiment and not the battalion, so he may have been transferred to the 1st Battalion at some point. The muster books were also the paylists so the Paymaster will have recorded what happened to him when he leaves the 2nd Bn paylist. This could be because he deserted, died, was discharged having been sent to prison, given a medical discharge, purchased his discharge, moved to the 1st Bn, or transferred to another regiment.
Ken
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Thanks very much for the info. Yes muster rolls and pay lists would be my next bet. I may have to send off for that 1862 death cert to see if it is him. If it is not him then he may have died overseas or something or emigrated when he left the Army.
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I do not see the benefit of getting the death certificate. There was no obvious connection between the 25th Foot and Greenwich in 1862. So if it is the right man he is probably no longer serving. The death certificate will not confirm you have the right man except if the person notifying the death is a known relative.
Personally I would follow his army service until you have him leaving/dying etc.
Ken
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I sent off for the 1862 death cert anyway as it seemed very likely, just so I could eliminate it and it was that of a 1 month old baby so not the right George.
It can given me a new lead now and I can search rolls and later census records. He may have died abroad in service then or decided to stay abroad if he was discharged abroad.
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UPDATE
I paid a sub to FindMyPast and found a George Brain death, buried in Ceylon, India in May 1868 and it said Pte H.M 25th H or R O B. Could this be the Borderers? No age is given but it looks like if it is then it must be my George.
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In 1868 the 25th Regiment of Foot were also known as the KOB - King's Own Borderers. They added S to become the KSOB in the late 1880s after they were transferred to the Scottish establishment in 1881 to replace a Scottish regiment moved to the Irish establishment. So I think you have found him.
I only have the muster for the 1st Battalion and the 2nd Bn Depot (including my GGF) which were in Devonport in 1868.
Ken
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Thanks for clarifying.
in the GRO Indexes a George Brain wed in 1860-1867 in Ceylon, page 813, and I did a search and a lady on the same page was a Robina Dudley. A Robina Brain wed in 1868 in Bengal according to the GRO indexes. Does anyone have any Ceylon marriage records as I looked on FamilySearch and Robina Brain wed in November 1868 in Bengal, fathers name Robert Scott. I dont think they have Ceylon marriages yet.
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I have a confession to make. I forgot I have a list of deaths for the the 25th and #497 Private George Brain is listed as dying 8th May 1868.
There is also #374 Private Francis Brain discharged 23rd June 1869 from the 2nd Battalion.
Ken
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Thanks. Confirms I have found the right George Brain.
The burial record which I found yesterday says he was buried at St Mary's Shajehanpore, West Bengal.