RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Strapper77 on Saturday 05 April 14 00:57 BST (UK)

Title: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Saturday 05 April 14 00:57 BST (UK)
Hi,
I'm new to this so please near with me!
I'm seeking any information about my Pop, Reginald Howard Claybrook.  I googled his name and a link to your page came up http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=395446.0
I would love to know the identity of his father.  It is somewhat of a mystery to our family.  He was born to Elma Marion Claybrook 02/11/1915 or 1917 (his army records have 2 different dates) and was raised by her parents with their other children.  I'm guessing that having a child out of wedlock in the early 1900's was frowned upon.
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: giblet on Saturday 05 April 14 09:54 BST (UK)
Hi,

I have come across where the mother is single yet has included the father's name in the child's name. Not saying this has happened in this case but it could be something to look into.

His age at death was 59 in 1977.
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: giblet on Saturday 05 April 14 10:00 BST (UK)
South Australia birth index

1917   8A/361   CLAYBROOK   Reginald Howard      Elma Marion CLAYBROOK   Norwood

http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Saturday 05 April 14 10:01 BST (UK)
Oh, I never thought of that.  There's been no father named anywhere.  His grandparents have been listed as his parents.
Yes, he died when my mum was pregnant with me!  I never had the chance to meet him :(
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: giblet on Saturday 05 April 14 10:09 BST (UK)
Also you can check through Trove, the aussie newspapers [free] as sometimes the woman took the man to court for maintenance and it gets a mention at times in the papers.

 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper

Been the WW1 era his father might have been in the military and not a local fella.
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Saturday 05 April 14 10:11 BST (UK)
That's what we've always said about his father.  Perhaps a soldier either Australian or otherwise.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: giblet on Saturday 05 April 14 10:35 BST (UK)
Do you have his birth cert.? If so is there a occupation for Elma?
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: giblet on Saturday 05 April 14 11:41 BST (UK)
So we know the name Howard is in the family so not from his father.

1897   608/367 CLAYBROOK   Arthur Howard   
father Arthur Henry CLAYBROOK   
mother Harriet Ann MILLER   
district  Hindmarsh
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Saturday 05 April 14 14:04 BST (UK)
No birth certificate for him.  I'll have to see if I can find one.  His mother, Elma, was only 16 apparently when she had him.  I don't know that there would be an occupation?
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Neil Todd on Saturday 05 April 14 20:34 BST (UK)
A possibility for a father!!
A birth of a son to a married man
Reginald Norman HOWARD Father Reginald James HOWARD Mother Olive Amelia HOWLETT at Adelaide ref #1918 28A/214

Neil
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Sunday 06 April 14 00:10 BST (UK)
His mother was Elma Marion Claybrook though?
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 00:15 BST (UK)
South Australia birth index

1917   8A/361   CLAYBROOK   Reginald Howard      Elma Marion CLAYBROOK   Norwood

http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html

A little more on my resource

Birth Reg
CLAYBROOK Reginald Howard
2 Nov 1917
Father Unrecorded   Mother Elma Marion CLAYBROOK
At Rose Park   Nor 8A/361

Births at Rose Park may have been at the Queen Victoria Hospital [for women].  Unmarried women were admitted for the first time in 1917.

There was also a Reginald John HOWARD in SA.  Reginald and Howard were popular given names in that era and may have nothing to do with the name of the father.

Information on SA birth certificates in 1917.
    Date and Place of Birth
    Name
    Father's name, Age, Occupation, Residence, Birthplace
    Mother's name, Age, Residence, Birthplace
    Year of parents Marriage
    Number of Issue Living and Deceased
    Informant

You can purchase transcripts of certificates in South Australia which is far cheaper than a certified certificate and the information should be the same.  I wrote the linked post some time ago.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=280572.msg1367795#msg1367795

From one of the transcribers
The work is undertaken by using the filmed district registrars' certificates and you should check the availability of certificates before ordering. The District Registrar Birth Death and Marriage duplicate certificate is identical to the 'original' held in the Principal Registry. There are examples of District Registrar Birth Death and Marriage duplicate certificate being the only example available as the Principal Registry never received their copy!


Cando
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 00:21 BST (UK)
Elma married and had a further five children to 1928.  Do you want the birth registrations of these children?  If so, I will pm them.

Cando
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 00:53 BST (UK)
No birth certificate for him.  I'll have to see if I can find one.  His mother, Elma, was only 16 apparently when she had him.  I don't know that there would be an occupation?

Elma was 18 years 11 month in Oct 1917.

Birth
CLAYBROOK Elma Marion
2 Oct 1898
Father Arthur Henry CLAYBROOK  Mother Harriet Ann MILLER
At Brompton  Hin 628/240

Elma had an elder brother named Howard who died in 1911
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ys0/

The Advertiser 29 Jun 1906
Harriet Claybrook and Ethel Francis were each charged, on the information of Inspector Houlgrave of the State Children's Department with having received into their care a child under the age of 2 years, while not being licensed foster mothers.
Claybrook was fined 1 and Francis 16/.

Elma's mother gave birth to her youngest child in 1916.

Cando

Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Sunday 06 April 14 00:58 BST (UK)
Wow, there's heaps of info!  Thank you.

On my Pop's army records it states his birth year being 1915

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=6469078
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Neil Todd on Sunday 06 April 14 01:08 BST (UK)
If Howard was already in the family nameing pattern then forget about my first post, Reg's dad could be anyone. ???

He probab;y put his age up for the army or didn't know correct year, more likely. Odd that Grandmother is fined for fostering family? Is this the same child Cando do you think. ???

Neil

Modified.....DOH...1906, just ignore me :-[ ;D
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Sunday 06 April 14 01:10 BST (UK)
Elma married and had a further five children to 1928.  Do you want the birth registrations of these children?  If so, I will pm them.

Cando

Please feel free to PM me any information!  Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 01:10 BST (UK)
People were not always honest with their ages and it is possible he made an error.  Quite often when the enlistee was asked his age and then his dob and errors were made by the person filling out the forms.  I have three dob's for one of my relatives who served in WW2.  The date and month were correct but the years were all wrong. I understand from surviving family members they were simply errors.

It may be worth getting a copy of the file.

WW2 summary has same date which would have been taken from the info on the NAA site
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=748188

Who are his parents on his marriage certificate?  It is possible he thought or possibly told his grandparents were his parents considering his grandmother had children young children when he born however can't dispute the birth registration with his mother named.

CLAYBROOK   Reginald H   
STRATTON   Betty M
District  Perth   1949  Reg#391

Cando   
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Sunday 06 April 14 01:11 BST (UK)
If Howard was already in the family nameing pattern then forget about my first post, Reg's dad could be anyone. ???

He probab;y put his age up for the army or didn't know correct year, more likely. Odd that Grandmother is fined for fostering family? Is this the same child Cando do you think. ???

Neil

Modified.....DOH...1906, just ignore me :-[ ;D

Haha now you can understand our frustration!
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 01:30 BST (UK)
 
That's what we've always said about his father.  Perhaps a soldier either Australian or otherwise.  Thank you.

Certainly a possibility and perhaps he was KIA.  Elma didn't marry until 1921.

It would appear the surname has been spelt both GULYRD and GULYARD
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=gulyrd
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=gulyard

Marriage
GULYRD Leonard  29 years  Status single  Father Dominico GULYRD
CLAYBROOK Elma Marion  22  Status single  Father Arthur Henry CLAYBROOK
10 Sep 1921
At St Pauls Church Port Adelaide  PtA S 288/744

Death in Victoria

GULYRD Leonard
Father Gagliardi Domi  Mother Lucia  UNKNOWN
At Melbourne  76 years  1966  Reg#4098

You can purchase Victorian certificates online [$20] and immediately download
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

I note that in a number of birth notices that Emma Marion is named Marion and she is named as NOK [sister] on Reginald war service file which has been digitised.  Parents dead!!  All rather odd when his parents were still living in Perth at the time he enlisted. Marion was legally his NOK anyway.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=6469078&S=2&T=R
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=6469078&S=4&T=P

Cando

Edit to add links


Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 02:01 BST (UK)
You possibly have this information.  Certainly understandable that Arthur and Harriet were noted as parents if they were living in WA by 1925 and possibly took Reginald with them.

Deaths in WA
CLAYBROOK Arthur Henry  81 years
Father William Mother Polly
District Perth  1956  Reg#2005

Cremation record and ashes scattered
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KC00011081
   
CLAYBROOK Harriett Ann  79 years
Father George  Mother Marion
District Perth 1955  Reg#802   

Cremation Record and ashes taken
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KC00009465

Australian Electoral Roll
1925
CLAYBROOK Arthur Henry  Guildford Road  Bayswater  Florist
CLAYBROOK Harriett Ann  Guildford Road  Bayswater  HD

1931
CLAYBROOK Arthur Henry 17 Cross Street Swanbourne  Flower maker
CLAYBROOK Harriett Ann 17 Cross Street  Swanbourne  HD

1936, 1937, 1943, 1949, 1954
CLAYBROOK Arthur Henry 13 Lynton Street, Swanbourne  Labourer
CLAYBROOK Harriett Ann  13 Lynton Street, Swanbourne  HD

Cando



Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Sunday 06 April 14 04:20 BST (UK)
Did you also notice in his army records that he's signed his name as R Howard?  The whole thing is odd.
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 05:00 BST (UK)
I think there was confusion all around.  Differing dates, names, strike outs as well.  It suggests to me that the clerk was firing questions at him when he first gave the surname....or was it the surname by which he was known...if so how could Marion GULYARD be his "sister".  I do wonder if he ever knew his true origins.    His birth date was obviously questioned as it is correct in later documentation.  There are more documents in the file post 1971 and noted in 2002. Documents cannot be released within 30 years so it may be worth purchasing the file.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=6469078&S=15&T=P

Cando
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Sunday 06 April 14 11:17 BST (UK)
Yeah the whole thing is odd.  Just wish we knew!!  I don't know if he knew...
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 14:06 BST (UK)
What is it you wish you knew?

Cando
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Strapper77 on Sunday 06 April 14 14:23 BST (UK)
Who his actual father was.
Title: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Reg Claybrook on Monday 05 May 14 07:41 BST (UK)
Its a mystery about wether the old man knew who his real parents were.
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 05 May 14 07:52 BST (UK)
Well speak of the family and who should POP up but Reginald himself.

Welcome to Rootschat Reg  ;D

I am sure Strapper will be along to connect with you, should be some reunion ;D
You attached my post re the birth in Adelaide, was there a reason?

Neil ;)
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: CHERAN on Tuesday 05 May 15 00:51 BST (UK)
Strapper

I can't shed any light on who Reginald Howard Claybrook's father was but your "Gran" Harriet is the daughter of my Great Great Gran and sister of my Great Gran so if you contact me through Pm I am happy to send on my research and I do have a couple photos especially one of Harriet...

Cheran
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: CHERAN on Friday 12 April 19 06:43 BST (UK)
Its a mystery about wether the old man knew who his real parents were.

Hi Reg

I have been working on the Gulyrd(Gulyard) family (alias GAGLIARDI)  looks like he is the son of Domineco GAGLIARDI and his mother Lucia Rosa Bellfemni  I have most of Leon's (Len) family  wondered if you anyone knew much about Elma Marion and his daughters.... (won't post there names as they could possible be still alive)

Also looking for some information re Alexander George Claybrook.... seems like a bit of mystery meant to have been born in 1910/1911  I can't find birth for him anywhere at the moment but he died in 1948 and is recorded as being a brother in the death notices for all the Claybrook's...

Cheran
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Becca63 on Wednesday 08 May 19 07:23 BST (UK)
Yeah, I have noticed that Alexander has a "brother" Angus, also born in 1911.  This family is VERY confusing and from what I can see, all secrets were taken to the grave. 
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: CHERAN on Friday 10 May 19 07:38 BST (UK)
I haven't still been able to trace a birth for Alexander but I will check State Records in the next couple of weeks because I believe they have some info on children who were maybe fostered. 

I am sorry I am not much more help for you...

let me know if you want me to add in more details  particularly if you want the info re his Mother!


Cheran
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Delk on Saturday 11 May 19 09:38 BST (UK)
Hi everone
Alexanders headsone says he was 37 in jan 1948 when he died. His  birthday was in May i think which means he would have been 38 in the year of his death which makes his year of birth 1910 not 11. So doesnt confict with angus in 1911.
This family takes a lot of working out.
Delk
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: CHERAN on Saturday 11 May 19 11:45 BST (UK)
But still no birth record that i can find sadly

Cheran
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Delk on Saturday 11 May 19 13:16 BST (UK)
Hi Cheran
He would be a Claybrook due to his daughter & my mother-in-law being 1st cousins by DNA
Title: Re: Reginald Howard Claybrook
Post by: Delk on Sunday 12 May 19 07:14 BST (UK)
Does anybody kniw what brought the Claybrook family to western Australia from Adelaide. Plus why and at what age Harold was when he left home.
Thanks.
Delk