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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: Bridgebabe on Saturday 05 April 14 08:39 BST (UK)
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Helping a friend - Looking for any info. British subject married in Buenos Aires in 1904 at St Martin's Church, and then again (to same lady!) in registry office in UK in 1906. Was this a usual way to legalise the marriage within the UK ? Would love to find out how the man (a worsted overlooker at the time of marriage) went to Argentina, and if there was a British community there at that time. Any pointers appreciated - thank you
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hi
firstly can you give us the name and place and year of birth for the person , there may be a passenger record for him .
if you do a google search for brits in argentina numerous sites come up with info to help you , apparently it was british railway workers who first brought football to argentina also polo stems from brit involvement out there .
in the case of the marriage it could be that the lady would be of the roman catholic faith and he may have been a protestant in which case back then it would have been frowned on for her to marry outside of her rc faith , but a marriage in a registry office in eng follows no specific faith just a legal form of marriage , in effect they covered themselves by doing it twice for a legal reason .
regards
trevor
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He would have travelled by ship - and while he could have arrived at Buenos Aires, he could also have arrived at other ports - eg: via Santiago or Valparaiso in Chile, or Montevideo in Uruguay.
He may have gone there after answering a local advertisment for workers in South America, and in that case could have been part o a contingent of workers. Agents for large companies were in place in the UK, charged with finding and shipping workers to SA. Many shepherds, railway workers, industrial & ag labs ended up in Argentina that way. Sometimes they stayed having went with or had brought out their families later. Sometimes they made their 'fortune' and then went back home.
He certainly wouldn't have been an unusual figure there. There has been a large and active British community in Argentina since the 1800's - starting slowly as early as the first decade of that century and a great many from the mid 1800's onward. Very many Argentinians are "Anglo-Argentine" and many with very English surnames.
The farming community (cattle, sheep and wheat) was especially large; many sophisticated, entrepreneurial, big scale English Farmers. They were able to buy land much cheaper there. Some of these landowners remained in Argentina, with many descendants to this day. Some went back to the UK when they retired. There was also the railway, commerce (banking) and other industries as mentioned above.
I can't really answer the marriage question …. but I concur with Trevor - also, I think that in Argentina from 1886 onward, a civil ceremony was the legal one and the church ceremony was simply in the eyes of the Lord! So everyone had to at least marry in a civil ceremony (Germany, for example is like that today). Maybe your couple married in the UK to legalise the marriage (at least perhaps in the brides' eyes) - or it was something to do with (having) documents?
http://patbrit.org/eng/intro/pbdb.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Argentine
http://www.argbrit.org/
http://www.sabrits.co.uk/
And:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action
Cheers
AMBLY
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The man was Herbert Midgley b 24 Jul 1878 in Keighley Yorkshire and his wife (from British marriage cert was Ramona Miro b abt 1832. I have Herbert in 1891 census still living unmarried, with his widowed mother in Keighley and (at what seems a young age) a worsted spinning overlooker. On the marriage cert his occupation is worsted overlooker so probably went out to Argentina in connection with wool trade.
Thank you both very much for your help and sites to look at,
Brenda
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hi
I,ve been through both outgoing and incoming passenger records and can,t find him/them on either .
this doesn,t surprise me as passenger records are quite notorious for bad information or none at all some have full names some initial and surname and some with just surname only , so they may be there somewhere but as I say I can,t find them .
regards
trevor
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Hello - the second 'wedding' in 1906 was as far as my friend was able to get. Like you, no emigrant from UK or return with wife in ancestry's data. In the suggested links at the right hand side of the ancestry 1891 census page it mentions a Herbert Midgely in Canada WW1 Soldiers so will try to access that.
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to look through the records
Kind regards, Brenda
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The man was Herbert Midgley b 24 Jul 1878 in Keighley Yorkshire and his wife (from British marriage cert was Ramona Miro b abt 1832. I have Herbert in 1891 census still living unmarried, with his widowed mother in Keighley and (at what seems a young age) a worsted spinning overlooker.
I see the 1891 Census you mentioned : Herbert MIDGLEY age 15, Worsted Spinning Overlooker, b Keighley, his mother Elizabeth is a widow. In 1881, Herbert is aged 5, mother Elizabeth, a widow aged 35. In 1871, his father is shown as Benjamin MIDGLEY.
This Herbert is born around 1875/1876 not 1878? On the marriage cert for Herbert & Ramona, who is named as his father? Also, could you clarify Ramona's approximate year of birth?
Is it not known what became of the couple after 1906 UK marriage?
I did find this:
( Mr) MIDGLEY, Mariner
SS Liguria, Departed Liverpool 7th Feb 1901, bound for Valparaiso
Cabin Passenger
But for the Mariner part, the timing would fit? I take it Herbert has not been found in the UK Census in 1901 (or 1911).
Cheers
AMBLY
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Two children baptised same day: 18 May 1879, Parish of Keighley:
Parents Benjamin MIDGLEY, Woolsorter and Elizabeth, of South Street:
Herbert Benjamin MIDGLEY, born 24 Jul 1875
Elizabeth Ann MIDGLEY, born 3 April 1879
Cheers
AMBLY
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Back to the Census in 1891:
6 Eldon Place, Keighley
RG12 / Piece3537, Folio 115, Pg11
Head: Elizabeth MIDGLEY 45, widow
Son: William MIDGLEY 22, unm, Boll Maker
Dau: Emma J MIDGLEY 20, unm, Worsted Reeler
Son: John MIDGLEY 18, unm, Brass Mouldir
Son: Herbert MIDGLEY 15, unm, Worsted Spinning Overlooker
Dau: Elizabeth A MIDGLEY, 12, Worsted Spinner
ALL children Born Keighley
Here they are in 1901:
1891: 6 Eldon Street, Keighley
RG13/ Piece 4074, Folio 120, Pg5
Head: Susan MIDGLEY 55, widow, b Brompton, London
Son: William MIDGLEY 52, unm, Bolt Maker
Dau: Emma Jane MIDGLEY 30, unm, Worsted Warper
Son: Herbert MIDGLEY 25, unm, Worsted Overlooker
Dau: Eliz. Ann MIDGLEY, 21, unm, Worsted Twister
ALL children Born Keighley
Son William's age seems fairly clearly written, but there does appear to some 'over writing' on it = attempted correction?? Elizabeth is clearly written down as "Susan". Could be enumerator's error. But aside from that, it is clearly same family - and this puts Herbert still in the UK at the time of the 1901 Census and narrows down the period of time for his travel to Argentina.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Helping a friend - Looking for any info. British subject married in Buenos Aires in 1904 at St Martin's Church, and then again (to same lady!) in registry office in UK in 1906. Was this a usual way to legalise the marriage within the UK ?
This would come under the Foreign Marriage Act 1892 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/55-56/23/contents/enacted
Stan
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All marriages of British subjects contracted in foreign countries, according to to the forms required by the lex loci contractus * are recognised as valid marriages by the English Courts except in cases where the parties would not be competent, by the law of England, to contract a valid marriage. *"law of the place where the contract is made” "1868 Royal Commission on the Laws of Marriage"
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The modify Button has disappeared (for me in RC right now, anyway!)
Two children baptised same day: 18 May 1879, Parish of Keighley:
Parents Benjamin MIDGLEY, Woolsorter and Elizabeth, of South Street:
Herbert Benjamin MIDGLEY, born 24 Jul 1875
Elizabeth Ann MIDGLEY, born 3 April 1879
My typo - he was baptised as Herbert MIDGLEY - no middle name!
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hello Thanks to everyone for the information, and the researched detail. Herbert and wife Ramona were in Yorkshire for their marriage in 1906, but cannot find them in 1911. Will pass on all info to my friend.
Many thanks
Brenda
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The man was Herbert Midgley b 24 Jul 1878 in Keighley Yorkshire and his wife (from British marriage cert was Ramona Miro b abt 1832. I have Herbert in 1891 census still living unmarried, with his widowed mother in Keighley and (at what seems a young age) a worsted spinning overlooker. On the marriage cert his occupation is worsted overlooker so probably went out to Argentina in connection with wool trade.
Thank you both very much for your help and sites to look at,
Brenda
Hi, is the birth year correct for Ramona, she would have 46 years his senior
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Hi! I registered only to post here! Mi name is Dr. Javier Vaca from C. A. Boca Juniors of Buenos Aires (yes, football!), i work in the Comission of History. We have some info about Herbert "Heriberto" Midgley on our archives. He became member of the club in 1940, on his request for that we can read "Heriberto Midgley" "english", born july 24th 1875, married, adress: Caseros 983 (Buenos Aires City), 64 years old. According the inmigration data base of Argentina, he arrived in june 17th 1910 as Herbert Midgley, 34 years old, married, "spanish" (?) came from Barcelona aboard the "Prince Umberto".
Weel that's all, i hope can be useful.
Regards.
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Thank you so much for your reply and the info you have added. I have forwarded this to my friend and she would like to be in touch with you to share the info she has about Herbert and his family. Many thanks, Brenda
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My pleasure! If there is anything I can help, count with me!