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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Buteshire => Topic started by: Sue Graham on Saturday 05 April 14 13:10 BST (UK)

Title: Arran
Post by: Sue Graham on Saturday 05 April 14 13:10 BST (UK)
Am I posting in the right place (newbie!) ?
I'm trying to find information about a house near Whiting Bay, Arran called Shawfield.   My son has moved into it and is having problems finding it's age and history.  He has a photo from c1900, but little apart from this.  Thanks for any help.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: rosie17 on Saturday 05 April 14 13:13 BST (UK)
You could google it and see what information comes up  :)
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 05 April 14 16:25 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat, Sue  :)

If he can go to a local history library, he should be able to access valuation rolls for the property working back to the year hopefully it was built. If he gets in to the late 1800s with the property, he might be able to find further details on the census (up to 1911 currently).

Monica  :)

PS: It might not always have been called Shawfields. Might also have had a street name and number.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Saturday 05 April 14 16:39 BST (UK)
ADDED: And a warm welcome from me too.  :)

When the website reopens on Monday, I should be able to access the Register of Sasines property search sheet for you, which will give names & dates of all owners from the time it was split off from the Arran estate.

Josey

PS - Monica - who are your current gorgeous girls?  ;)
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 05 April 14 16:50 BST (UK)
who are your current gorgeous girls?  ;)

My mum and her best friend Menenes (Mercedes). I have scanned a trillion photos in the last 6 months for my side and my husband, all from round the world. Have been in scan heaven  ;D

Monica

PS: Thanks Josey for any help you bring to Sue  ;)
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Saturday 05 April 14 17:04 BST (UK)
Sue, when you have made 2 more posts I will send you a personal message [pm] with some information. I assume this is the house to the west of a house called [or formerly called] 'Alma'?

Josey

ADDED: Take a look at the scanned archive OS maps at http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/ and the georeferenced ones [which have a sliding overlay of google satellite images] at http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore. Put Whiting Bay in the search field. Select the 25 inch to the mile maps for greater detail. There is a  house on the site in the OS 1843 - 1882 series.
 
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: Bkilpatrick on Sunday 02 September 18 07:51 BST (UK)
Hi, my great grandfathers death certifcate gave his usual address as shawfield whiting bay, could this be the same place
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: pharmaT on Sunday 02 September 18 08:57 BST (UK)
He could try viewing the 1901 and 1911 census on Scotland's people.  That would tell him a little about who lived in the house.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 07 September 18 20:37 BST (UK)
Maybe the owner made his money at the "Dugs!"......Shawfield!  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: q98 on Saturday 08 September 18 11:21 BST (UK)
Maybe the owner made his money at the "Dugs!"......Shawfield!  ;D

Skoosh.

Well done Skoosh, only a "duggie man" would get that one! My Dad's best dog raced as Queeqeg at the Ayrshire tracks.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Monday 17 September 18 09:31 BST (UK)
Hi - another Newbie to RootsChat but long term family searcher.
A similar request to this one. Corrie - My brothers & I have all been taken, at different times in the 50's & 60's, to see a cousin to our aunt, living on the A841. We all can identify the house but not the cousin. Anyone know how we can find out who this was? The house is just passed the inlet and has a garden on the opposite side of the road. On Google maps it is at present with a balck door & brown picket fence. It has a slightly lower roof than the neighbours on either side.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Monday 17 September 18 14:16 BST (UK)
A warm welcome to rootschat  :).

When you have made 2 more posts [just reply to this twice] you can send me your email address by personal message[click the text icon under my name]. I can then send you an image of some mapping I did in Corrie which, if you know the name of the house, can lead you to identifying its owners.  However, there are no houses which as far as I know had title to any land on the beach side of the road.

ADDED: I am sure there is a good reason that the original poster of this thread never got back to thank anyone for their efforts on her behalf!!
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Monday 17 September 18 14:24 BST (UK)
Thank you for that. If you look on Google maps you will see across the road from the cottages there are some gardens which I exactly how I remember it from 1963. We all have pictures of the house but have no real knowledge of this cousin other than her name being Jenny(Jennie). Of course in Scotland this could also be Janet, Jean, or Jane! I cannot find a number shown.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 17 September 18 14:27 BST (UK)
Welcome from me too  :)

Any idea on cousin's age at the time (from the 1950s and 60s)?

Any key surnames that could help others searching?

Monica
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Monday 17 September 18 14:29 BST (UK)
And if you know the name of the house....but no names of living people as you no doubt know.

PS Ahh now I have it.....yes, about 5 cottages with garden originally over the road & several others at a later date. Only names I can see are Briar Cottage, Ty-canol & Fuschia Bank.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Monday 17 September 18 14:45 BST (UK)
My aunt was born in 1898 & I guess this cousin would be around the same time. The surnames that might link would be Aitchison, Whitelaw, Blane, Miller but it could be something else.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Monday 17 September 18 14:50 BST (UK)
Looking at this map I would think that those named are a likely bet as particularly one looks to open onto wild ground at the back. The house was very small & when Jenny had both back & front doors open the sheep would wonder through from one side to the other.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Monday 17 September 18 14:55 BST (UK)
Found another few with gardens over the road, to the north of previous post. When you say 'just past the inlet' - how far away can you remember? And north or south?
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Monday 17 September 18 15:13 BST (UK)
I do have a photo but I think it is in the loft! From the inlet it is a couple of hundred yards. Looking at Google Earth the brick wall for the gardens opposite starts opposite the bigger cottage next door & proceeds along passed the red brick cottage & one other.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Monday 17 September 18 15:21 BST (UK)
Sorry I didn't answer your other question - north of the inlet.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Monday 17 September 18 15:24 BST (UK)
Only about a hundred yards south of the church
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Monday 17 September 18 16:27 BST (UK)
Then it must be one of these. None of those names you gave seem to have been the original feuars. I cannot give the original names on this public forum as they were only feued in the 1940-60s. If you can relate the google map street view to one of the numbers on the map, personal message me with your email address  & I can send the name/s. However, before they were feued they would have been rented out by the estate to tenants and I do not have any of those names. The tenant was not always the person who bought the feu.

ADDED: Ahh 1225 has one of your names with 'ar' rather than 'er'....I think we have nailed it. 1225 was called 'Graham Cottage' in 1961 when it was feued to a Janet.....
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Monday 17 September 18 16:46 BST (UK)
Is this it?
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Monday 17 September 18 18:03 BST (UK)
Yes
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 17 September 18 18:50 BST (UK)
Great result! Well done Josey  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Monday 17 September 18 22:15 BST (UK)
Have pm'd hopeless24 with name of original feuar of cottage in 1961.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Tuesday 18 September 18 08:58 BST (UK)
Many thanks for your help. Could you please explain to a southerner the term feuar & how the system works?
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Tuesday 18 September 18 11:46 BST (UK)
Ahh - the feudal system, which operated in Scotland till 2004.

A long story but short story is - a form of land tenure whereby an estate owner ['feudal superior'] grants a perpetual right to a tenement of land, with or without house, to someone [the 'feuar'] in return for originally military service later commuted to a financial payment ['feu duty']. The superior could retain certain rights if he wished eg type of building, mineral rights underneath the soil, maintenance of a common area & these were detailed in a [chronological order of historical terms] Feu Charter, Feu Contract or Feu Disposition. Up to a certain date the superior had to be informed of change of ownership whether it was by inheritance or purchase but this was mainly to keep track of who was due to pay the annual money. No new feus could be created after 2004 - Scotland retaining the feudal system for centuries longer than any other European country. Apart from leases all new land tenure is now outright, like English freehold.

A comparison to English land tenure could be called a perpetual lease.   

That's a very simple overview which I & others here could expand on at length  ;D. There's a bit here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_property_law
but try an online search too.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Tuesday 18 September 18 12:10 BST (UK)
Dark ages! OK that sounds as I had thought. Thanks again
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Tuesday 18 September 18 15:15 BST (UK)
I now have the marriage certificate that confirms the names you found.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: josey on Tuesday 18 September 18 16:07 BST (UK)
Fantastic - so you think that is your relly? If you know she has died we can mention her name here.
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: bscott75 on Friday 23 November 18 17:40 GMT (UK)
There is a Facebook page: Whiting Bay Memories. Maybe if you joined you can ask about the house?
Title: Re: Arran
Post by: hopeless24 on Monday 26 November 18 09:12 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the info. I'll check it out although I'm not on Facebook.