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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: Jomot on Thursday 17 April 14 02:58 BST (UK)
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I've been searching for the family of my 'missing' ancestor Ann Davies born c1848 for some time and am pretty sure I've finally found them living in Bedwellty, Monmouthshire in 1851.
As well as Ann and her parents James & Margaret plus assorted other children are twins Ruth & Rhoda, born 1850. I had hoped to find the family still together in 1861 but have instead found Rhoda aged 11 as a House Servant to the Marsh MORGAN family in Manmoel, Ebbw Vale and Ruth as a general servant to the Howells family in Hengoed, Gelligaer. (Marsh was a transcription error - have now viewed the original and its definitely Morgan).
I had already found Ann Davies, a house servant aged 13 in Moss Row, Aberdare, Glamorgan in 1861 (the same street her future husband was also living on) - but until I discovered Ruth & Rhoda I had nothing to confirm it was the 'right' Ann Davies or any clue as to where she came from other than her fathers name & occupation.
However, 11 & 13 seems extremely young to be split up and working as house servants. I'm assuming that both parents must have died - or one died and the other couldn't look after all the children (next on the 'to do' list to check out) - but I'm hoping that someone can give me some ideas as to what other records I might be able to find and where to look.
I'm guessing they may have gone into the workhouse for a period so will contact the records office to see if they can do some searches for me, but I'm not sure about what specific records I'd need them to look at or whether there are likely to be any other records that might give some insight as to what happened & who placed them with the various families etc.
Can anyone help me out please?
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I can't comment specifically on your family, but to be working as servants or in other jobs at ages 11 and 13 is not unusual.
If I were you I would be looking for the parents and other siblings on the 1861 and later censuses. Unless you know otherwise, you should not assume that they are orphaned or have been in the workhouse just because the family are not together. I would search for younger siblings in the censuses as they are more likely to be with parents or other relatives.
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However, 11 & 13 seems extremely young to be split up and working as house servants.
Hi there,
I have two ancestors who travelled from England to Australia in 1850s, brothers.... one was 13 and one was 10, brothers. The voyage took four months, under sail... Neither of the boys could read or write. Their parents and their other siblings remained in England, until a yet younger brother came out to New South Wales (Australia) many years later.
Yes, that's Half way around the world, 13 and 10, nearly 11 .... and two children by 21st century standards... But they came in the 1850s, so in my family, we needed to open our 1850s eyes to start to understand the family structures, ties, obligations, responsibilities, duties.
"My" 13 year old was noted in the 1851 census as a House Servant, when he was 10. He was with a merchant and that merchant's family in a neighbouring village to his parents, and siblings. An older brother was in a different village again (12 in 1851 census). An older sister (15) was also no longer living at home with her parents either.
So I can support Ruskie's comments about it not being at all unusal to be working as servants at ages 11 and 13.
Cheers, JM
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Child labour; http://eh.net/encyclopedia/child-labor-during-the-british-industrial-revolution/
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Just looking at the family in 1851, I see father James is a Collier (pauper). Living next door is an older Davies couple, Benjamin and Elizabeth who may be of an age to be parents of James. Do you know if this couple are related to your James?
Twins Rhoda and Ruth are the youngest in 1851, though Margaret is only 31 so likely to have had more children.
If the family dispersed the names are so common that you may have trouble finding them. Birth place as Bedwelty is probably your best chance, though if they were servants even this pob may not be noted.
With so many children as James as a Collier (pauper), the children were probably encouraged to leave home and work to bring some money home, and he would have fewer mouths to feed.
I will look again later when I have some more time, to see if I can find the family members in 1861.
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I have records of young children whose father had died being apprenticed, one to become a housekeeper. It was arranged by the equivalent of the poor house. They had been returned to the village they were born in. Sounds like very cheap labour to me.
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My half 4th g.g.uncle John had the misfortune to lose his mother when he was aged 1-2, his father re-married and produced another son. Then his father died and his stepmother re-married, meaning that John aged 5 was living with two adults, neither of whom were his parents. In 1853, John aged 8 was apprenticed in husbandry as a "poor child". So there was nothing unusual in children working in those days. It is only today that we've come to believe that children are incapable of doing anything for themselves or anybody else until they're at least 25. ::)
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You can see from my link at #3 that there was nothing unusual about this.
It could have been worse than domestic servant; http://www.museumwales.ac.uk/rhagor/article/children_down_mines/
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youngtug, the experiences of children all those years ago was horrendous, but I think society has gone totally the other way now and children aren't streetwise and many seem incapable of thinking for themselves.
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http://www.pobronson.com/factbook/pages/204.html
More about children working on this link
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I too have a girl of 11 in North Yorkshire in my tree working away from home as a "nurse". Years ago my aunt said she'd visited her father's family in Norfolk and remembered one of his cousins was a teacher - I found her aged 12 in the Norfolk census noted as a "pupil teacher".
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Thank you all for your replies. I have come across children being apprenticed at very young ages before but only before the wider introduction of the workhouse - 1860's just seemed quite late for it still to be the case, but perhaps not.
I know James was deceased by the time Ann married in 1868 so finding out what happened to him & Margaret is the next job on the list.
Nothing like getting ahead of yourself when you're excited after a long-awaited 'find' ;)
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Does James' occupation on Ann's marriage certificate tie in with him being a Collier (pauper) in 1851?
Just asking as I noticed when I looked briefly at likely families in 1851 that there was more than one with similar names, dates and places of birth. (Another way to confirm family of course is by the twins - if you know that your Ann had twin sisters).
By rights James should also be around for the 1861 - have you found him in 1861?
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On Ann's marriage certificate in 1868 her father is stated as James Davies (Deceased), Collier. The witnesses are Henry's father and someone called David Williams. Ann was 8 months pregnant at the time and given that Henry deserted her not that many years later I don't think he was a happy participant! I haven't yet found either James or Margaret in 1861.
Unfortunately I cant say 100% that the twins are her sisters but after Ann moved to England she had a 'lodger' called Edwin Howell living with her from at least 1881 until his death in 1893. I know its tenuous, but in 1861 Ruth was a general servant to the Howells family in Hengoed. In the same year Edwin Howell is found with his parents & siblings in Aberdare (he was originally from Haverfordwest) so I was also going to see if I could find a link between the two Howells families.
Also tenuous I know, but Ann went on to name two of her children James and Margaret, and another two were named Elizabeth & David (the same names as the two eldest Davies children in the 1851 household).
UPDATE: I've also amended the original post as the family Rhoda was living with was called Morgan (not Marsh), and to add to the coincidences Ann's future husband was a Morgan.