RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Revolution on Sunday 20 April 14 06:46 BST (UK)
-
Hi
I have been trying to trace my great great grandmother Agnes McMahon time in Aramac, Ipswich and Rockhampton, Queensland. On all her childrens birth certificates she stated she was born in Aramac around 1881 although I have not been able to find a birth certificate on the Queensland BDM website nor confirmation of a birthplace.
In 1899 she had the first of her 5 children. They are
1899 Kevin Hamilton McMahon born in Lady Bowen Hospital, Brisbane,
1901 Ellen May McMahon in Pine St North Ipswich,
1903 William Frederick McMahon in Brisbane Street, Ipswich,
1905 Vivian Promethues McMahon in Brisbane Street, Ipswich
1911 in Rockhampton, Queensland she had Eileen McMahon who I think died after 7 months.
All children had the word illegitimate written on their certificates.
I havent been able to find anything out about her. On ancestry there is someone with the name Agnes McMahon who was a female servant but little else in 1905 on the electoral role. I cant find her parents names and do not know if she took on that name to indicate her boyfriends name or whether she was seeing a married man or one of the other options. I havent been able to find any marriage nor any ancestor who may have kept information about her.
Does anyone have suggestions about how I might find out more about Agnes?
-
Could this be her birth? (Ellen also a daughters name, although Ellen was quite a common name)
QLD BDM
11/9/1880 C4129 Maria Agnes McMahon; Father - Michael; Mother - Ellen Dwyer
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Hi cupoflife
I havent come across Maria Agnes McMahon in any of her childrens birth certificates. I notice there are deaths for Agnes McMahon in 1935 and 1936 with the one that stands out being the one where only her fathers name is listed as Reilly McMahon. Thats not to say she didnt change her name or just refer to herself with a derivative of her name.
There is also a marriage in 1937 for an Agnes to Arthur James Clark but she would have been about 56 at this time
-
What happens later in this family please...does Agnes marry....do you have death details for her?
Do you have a marriage certificate for one of the children...with names of parents?
There is William Wallace McMAHON b. 1896 - /Agnes McMAHON.
Is this a child to your Agnes...a very young Agnes?
Do you have any later information about the children...did they maintain the family name McMAHON?
-
Children's marriage/death certificates or marriage/death notices on TROVE/newspapers, may help narrow down her death.
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
The marriage certificates are ones to be ordered so I dont know how long that takes. There are no historical images like with the birth certificates.
Assuming this info is correct:
Kevin Hamilton McMahon married to Ivy Isabel Margaret Fowler 13 Dec 1926 in Queensland, Australia
Ellen May McMahon married Thomas Philip Smith 26 Nov 1919 in Ipswich,Queensland, Australia
I cant find marriages for the other children - assuming they survived to adulthood.
-
Could this be her William Frederick?
Death: 11/3/1951 C1235 William Frederick McMahon; Father -; Mother- Agnes Maria McMahon
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Marriage:
29/6/1925 C2325 William Frederick McMahon and Millicent Fullelove
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
The name Prometheus is most unusual.
He was a Greek hero god.
There was an English steamer which frequented Eastern Australian ports in 1890's and early 1900's named Prometheus.
There was a visit to Brisbane by the Prometheus in 1905. ;D
Sue
-
Could this be Vivian Promethues McMahon? (have not seen one of these before)
Title: Ex Boy 1st Class, Vivian P McMahon http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yyd/
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Maybe start with this marriage certificate
Ellen May McMahon m. Thomas Philip Smith 26 Nov 1919 in Ipswich, Queensland, Australia
Ellen May b. 1901 would need permission of parent/s to marry, so would be good opportunity to see if Agnes is alive.
Ellen May SMITH d. 1947 parents - / Agnes McMAHON
Courier Mail 28 June 1947 Tipper Creek via Fernvale buried Ipswich Cemetery
-
Vivian McMahon (mentions death of brother W.F. McMahon) http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/118400798
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Hi cupoflife.
The Agnes Maria McMahon and Agnes McMahon both feature on the same 1905 census so they are different people.
I saw the marriage for Millient Fullelove but couldnt positively link it to William Frederick as there was a William who died in 1910. The one who died in 1951 was Agnes Maria.
Curiously theres a William McMahon who died in 1910 aged 6 months whose mother is Agnes McMahon.
-
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/118400798?searchTerm="Vivian McMahon"&searchLimits=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||l-textSearchScope=*ignore*%7C*ignore*|||fromdd|||frommm|||fromyyyy|||todd|||tomm|||toyyyy|||l-word=*ignore*%7C*ignore*|||sortby
Queensland Times (Ipswich) Thursday 25 June 1953
Could this interesting story about a boy (and later adult) name Vivian McMahon be your chap?
The dates are right. ;D
He was 48 when telling this tale
Sue
-
This may be Vivian McMAHON on the 1958 Electoral Roll
McMAHON, Vivian, 81 Frederick St. Toowong. No occ
McMAHON, Lily as above HD
Sue
-
Vivian McMahon (mentions death of brother W.F. McMahon) http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/118400798
cheers :)
cupoflife
Sorry cupoflife, but as your link gave no indication of year, or its subject matter, I did not realise it was the same as mine.
Sometimes a small clue as to the nature of a finding helps us all along. ;D
Sue
-
It would have helped if I checked his birth certificate rather than assuming he was a she!
A fascinating story about Vivian McMahon. Me thinks he could well be prone to good story telling... ;D
-
I was struck by the co-incidence of his having a ship's middle name and then becoming a seafarer. ;D
Did you note he says he was raised on a mixed farm with few racehorses. Interesting.
Sue
-
Its interesting I thought it was a typo "Promethues" but the uncertain lettering was struck out and they again used ues instead of eus for the middle name.
I did note that and that he was staying with his niece. I dont have that info available- Mrs R F Bright.
I hav ordered
Historical Marriage Certificate, 1919/C3079: Ellen May McMahon and Thomas Philip Smith
-
Not sure but maybe......
1954 E Roll
18 Dacre St. Toowong
BRIGHT, Robert L. Labourer
BRIGHT, Clarice Agnes. HD
Sue
-
A fascinating story about Vivian McMahon. Me thinks he could well be prone to good story telling... ;D.
Engagement notice SMH 30 Aug1952
"McMAHON—HULME-MOIR The Engagement is announced of Louisa Beryl only daughter of Mrs V B Hulme-Moir, of Willoughby, to Vivian McMahon, in Korea, younger son of the late Mr and Mrs McMahon, of Queensland." http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yye/
Marriage must not have taken place as Louisa Beryl Hulme-Moir died Sept 1989
http://www.heavenaddress.com/Louisa-Beryl-Hulme-Moir/130099/
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
A fascinating story about Vivian McMahon. Me thinks he could well be prone to good story telling... ;D.
Engagement notice SMH 30 Aug1952
"McMAHON—HULME-MOIR The Engagement is announced of Louisa Beryl only daughter of Mrs V B Hulme-Moir, of Willoughby, to Vivian McMahon, in Korea, younger son of the late Mr and Mrs McMahon, of Queensland." http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yye/
Marriage must not have taken place as Louisa Beryl Hulme-Moir died Sept 1989
http://www.heavenaddress.com/Louisa-Beryl-Hulme-Moir/130099/
cheers :)
cupoflife
The mention of a Mr McMAHON is interesting. Usually if he did not exist, he would not be not mentioned.
Anyway, both Mr and Mrs deceased by 1952.
EDIT- Maybe it could be read he was deceased but she was in QLD
Sue
-
Perhaps it was a cover-up by Vivian to hide his illegitimate background.
-
Hi cupoflife.
The Agnes Maria McMahon and Agnes McMahon both feature on the same 1905 census so they are different people.
I saw the marriage for Millient Fullelove but couldnt positively link it to William Frederick as there was a William who died in 1910. The one who died in 1951 was Agnes Maria.
I think the 1951 death William Frederick McMahon is your line as Mrs M. McMahon and Mrs R.J. Bright mentioned.
William Frederick McMahon funeral notice Courier Mail 13 Mar 1951 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/50103372
McMAHON.—The Relatives and Friends of Mrs M. McMahon, and Billy, Mr. and Mrs. R. J. Bright and Family, are invited to attend the Funeral of her beloved Husband, their Father. Father-in-law. and Grandfather, William Frederick McMahon. of 21 Bank Rd. Graceville to move from Alex. Gow's Funeral Chapel, Petrie Bight, Tomorrow (Wednesday) Afternoon, at 2 o'clock, for the Crematorium, Mt. Thompson. Service 1.45 p.m.
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Hi,
A maybe.
1903 Electoral Roll.
Agnes McMahon
Brisbane Street, Ipswich
Domestic Servant.
Gerry
-
A picture of Vivian in 1951
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49005457?searchTerm=%22vivian%20mcmahon%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=vivian+mcmahon|||anyWords|||notWords|||l-textSearchScope=*ignore*|*ignore*|||fromdd|||frommm|||fromyyyy|||todd|||tomm|||toyyyy|||l-word=*ignore*|*ignore*|||sortby
-
There is also a marriage in 1937 for an Agnes to Arthur James Clark but she would have been about 56 at this time
People do marry when aged in their fifties - I would not discount this without any evidence :)
-
A possibility:
National Archives of Australia - WWI attestation papers 1915 for John James McMahon b.c. 1886 Aramac, NOK Miss Agnes Mary McMahon, sister, Rockhampton.
Qld Historical Births - 1886 C27 John James McMahon F: John James M: Mary McMahon
and also: 1884 C25 Agnes Mary McMahon F: John James M: Mary McMahon
Christine.
-
Vivian McMahon (mentions death of brother W.F. McMahon) http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/118400798
cheers :)
cupoflife
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0019884/
http://www.thefilmcsa.com/frcaf19jahol.html
...and a bit on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV8EeND-rBY
Debra :)
-
Vivian told a few porkies... 9yrs younger & an alias ;D
http://www.koreanroll.gov.au/veteran.aspx?id=1219937
-
I think the 1951 death William Frederick McMahon is your line as Mrs M. McMahon and Mrs R.J. Bright mentioned.
William Frederick McMahon funeral notice Courier Mail 13 Mar 1951 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/50103372
McMAHON.—The Relatives and Friends of Mrs M. McMahon, and Billy, Mr. and Mrs. R. J. Bright and Family, are invited to attend the Funeral of her beloved Husband, their Father. Father-in-law. and Grandfather, William Frederick McMahon. of 21 Bank Rd. Graceville to move from Alex. Gow's Funeral Chapel, Petrie Bight, Tomorrow (Wednesday) Afternoon, at 2 o'clock, for the Crematorium, Mt. Thompson. Service 1.45 p.m.
cheers :)
cupoflife
Im not sure this is the right person. The QL BDM gives me 1951 C1235 William Frederick McMahon - Mother: Agnes Maria McMahon
So we have the middle name Maria which seperates the women. Im guessing this also rules out Millicent Fullelove as his spouse - marriage 1925?
-
1899 Kevin Hamilton McMahon born in Lady Bowen Hospital, Brisbane,
1901 Ellen May McMahon in Pine St North Ipswich,
1903 William Frederick McMahon in Brisbane Street, Ipswich,
1905 Vivian Promethues McMahon in Brisbane Street, Ipswich
1911 in Rockhampton, Queensland she had Eileen McMahon who I think died after 7 months.
Prefix B = Brisbane event C = Country event
Birth
1896/B58844
McMAHON William Wallace Mother Agnes McMAHON
Possible death
1897/B30119
McMAHON William Wyllie Mother Agnes McMAHON
Born Queensland aged 1 year
Birth
1899/B64879
McMAHON Kevin Hamilton Mother Agnes McMAHON
Death
1969/B9611
McMAHON Kevin Hamilton Mother Agnes McMAHON
Birth
1901/C5718
McMAHON Ellen May Mother Agnes McMAHON
Died 1947 as Ellen May SMITH. [Posted by Wivenhoe]
1903/C5246
McMAHON William Frederick Mother Agnes McMAHON
Possible death
1951/C1235
McMAHON William Frederick Mother Agnes Maria McMAHON
1905/C5685
McMAHON Vivian Promethues Agnes McMAHON
Perhaps the birth of this child was not registered and is may not be your Agnes and there was already a son Wm. F. Perhaps she called the earlier Wm by his second given name Frederick.
Death
1910/C3060
McMAHON William Mother Agnes McMAHON
Born Queensland aged 6 months.
Birth
1911/C10086
McMAHON Eileen Mother Agnes McMAHON
Death
1911/C3661
McMAHON Eileen Mother Agnes McMAHON
Born Queensland aged 7 months.
Birth
1884/C25
McMAHON Agnes Mary
Father John James Mother Mary McMAHON
Marriage
1913/C3065
TUSTAIN Frederick Thomas
McMAHON Agnes Mary Francis
This couple on the electoral roll at Rockhampton from 1913 until his death in 1922.
Birth
1914/C11700
TUSTAIN Frederick William
Father Frederick Thomas Mother Agnes Mary Francis McMAHON
Australian Electoral Roll
1913
TUSTAIN Frederick Thomas Cnr Alma & Stanley Street, Rockhampton Labourer
1919
TUSTAIN Agnes Mary Frances 267 Alma Street, Rockhampton Dressmaker
Death - Haven't seen the F prefix before.
1922/F8911
TUSTAIN Frederick Thomas
Father William Mother Elizabeth MATHEWS
1936
TUSTAIN Agnes Mary Frances 336 Bolstover Road Rockhampton HD
TUSTAIN Frederick William 336 Bostover Road Rockhampton Labourer
1937, 1943
TUSTAIN Agnes Mary Frances 281 East Street, Rockhampton HD
1943 - unable to bring up image. Ancestry is not functioning well for me tonight.
TUSTAIN Frederick William
TUSTAIN Madge
Death
1970/C7449
TUSTAIN Agnes Mary Frances
Father John James Mother Mary McMAHON
South Rockhampton Cemetery
SRC TUSTAIN Kelsen 10 months M Sunday, 1 February 1920 RC 33X 4595 Gastro enteritis
North Rockhampton Cemetery
TUSTAIN Agnes Mary Frances F 86 Sunday, 29 November 1970 Monday, 30 November 1970 RC C L 56
TUSTAIN Frederick William (ASHES) M 85 Thursday, 22 July 1999 Saturday, 14 August 1999 28 4 36
TUSTAIN Madge F 83 Sunday, 11 August 2002 Wednesday, 14 August 2002 CATHOLIC 28 4 36
All very speculative and it was the mentions of Rockhampton that made me wonder about this Agnes.
Cando
-
There is a family tree on Ancestry which indicates that Kevin was adopted at birth by William and Margaret CREECH and changed his surname back to McMAHON when he was about 21.
Did Agnes raise any of the children? They certainly knew she was their mother.
Cando, 'F' stands for WW1 deaths and most in Queensland were registered in 1922.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=6040976
Debra :)
-
I think the 1951 death William Frederick McMahon is your line as Mrs M. McMahon and Mrs R.J. Bright mentioned.
William Frederick McMahon funeral notice Courier Mail 13 Mar 1951 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/50103372
McMAHON.—The Relatives and Friends of Mrs M. McMahon, and Billy, Mr. and Mrs. R. J. Bright and Family, are invited to attend the Funeral of her beloved Husband, their Father. Father-in-law. and Grandfather, William Frederick McMahon. of 21 Bank Rd. Graceville to move from Alex. Gow's Funeral Chapel, Petrie Bight, Tomorrow (Wednesday) Afternoon, at 2 o'clock, for the Crematorium, Mt. Thompson. Service 1.45 p.m.
cheers :)
cupoflife
Im not sure this is the right person. The QL BDM gives me 1951 C1235 William Frederick McMahon - Mother: Agnes Maria McMahon
So we have the middle name Maria which seperates the women. Im guessing this also rules out Millicent Fullelove as his spouse - marriage 1925?
Allow me to explain the connection:
Mrs BRIGHT is Vivian McMahon's niece (1953 article http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/118400798)
Vivian's brother is named as W.F. McMahon, so this must be William Frederick.
Mrs BRIGHT is also named in the 13/3/1951 funeral notice of William Frederick McMahon (of Bank Road Graceville), so this must be William's only daughter Gloria Felicity BRIGHT (see engagement/marriage link below) and William Frederick McMahon's wife is named as Mrs M. McMahon (so this must be Millicent Fullelove who he married on 29/6/1925)
BRIGHT-McMAHON engagement 1946 - http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/98380896
Gloria Felicity McMahon, only daughter of Mr & Mrs W.F. McMahon of Bank Road Graceville, to Raymond Joseph BRIGHT, only son of Mr & Mrs H. Bright ...
Also 'Bank Road Graceville' in both the engagement and funeral notice indicates this is the same man.
BRIGHT-McMAHON marriage 1947 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49660490
"with Glenda FALLELOVE as flower girl" (so again a connection to Millicent)
Therefore Agnes Maria McMahon looks like your line. As the funeral notice is 2 days after this death.
Death: 11/3/1951 C1235 William Frederick McMahon; Father -; Mother- Agnes Maria McMahon
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
There is a family tree on Ancestry which indicates that Kevin was adopted at birth by William and Margaret CREECH and changed his surname back to McMAHON when he was about 21.
Did Agnes raise any of the children? They certainly knew she was their mother.
Cando, 'F' stands for WW1 deaths and most in Queensland were registered in 1922.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=6040976
Debra :)
Hi Dundee
I just found the info on ancestry - thats the first Ive heard of an adoption! Kevin would have one of two younger males in the household along with William (snr) and 6 sisters.
I dont know if she did raise any of the children. If she was working as a female servant I doubt she would have been able to hold down a job without help.
-
A fascinating story about Vivian McMahon. Me thinks he could well be prone to good story telling... ;D.
Engagement notice SMH 30 Aug1952
"McMAHON—HULME-MOIR The Engagement is announced of Louisa Beryl only daughter of Mrs V B Hulme-Moir, of Willoughby, to Vivian McMahon, in Korea, younger son of the late Mr and Mrs McMahon, of Queensland." http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yye/
Marriage must not have taken place as Louisa Beryl Hulme-Moir died Sept 1989
http://www.heavenaddress.com/Louisa-Beryl-Hulme-Moir/130099/
cheers :)
cupoflife
Interesting - so he was in the Koran war under an alias probably because of his age then only lasted a month. Perhaps the shame of it killed off his marriage plans.
-
Hi,
A maybe.
1903 Electoral Roll.
Agnes McMahon
Brisbane Street, Ipswich
Domestic Servant.
Gerry
In 1905 there was Agnes McMahon (domestic servant) and Agnes Marie McMahon (domestic duties) - both of Brisbane street, Ipswich
-
Engagement notice SMH 30 Aug1952
"McMAHON—HULME-MOIR The Engagement is announced of Louisa Beryl only daughter of Mrs V B Hulme-Moir, of Willoughby, to Vivian McMahon, in Korea, younger son of the late Mr and Mrs McMahon, of Queensland." http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yye/
Marriage must not have taken place as Louisa Beryl Hulme-Moir died Sept 1989
http://www.heavenaddress.com/Louisa-Beryl-Hulme-Moir/130099/
The Korean war service gives the following dates of service:
Start of service
4 October 1952
End of Service
7 November 1952
So it looks like he was in Korea and getting engaged before the official start of his war service.
Regards
jennaya
-
I have been trying to trace my great great grandmother Agnes McMahon time in Aramac, Ipswich and Rockhampton, Queensland. On all her childrens birth certificates she stated she was born in Aramac around 1881 although I have not been able to find a birth certificate on the Queensland BDM website nor confirmation of a birthplace.
Could you please type up ALL the information on the birth certificates please and I think the 1911 birth in Rockhampton is vital to validate the research that Agnes may have married in Rockhampton and had one child and a possible second one in 1920.
It is necessary to purchase the 1913 marriage certificate to compare the bride's signature with those on the birth certificates you hold. It would also give you her place of birth.
Not everyone enrolled to vote and if Agnes Mary was not born until 1884 then she should would not have been eligible to vote in 1903 only in 1905 if she turned 21 before close of rolls prior to election day in that year.
Australian Electoral Roll
1908
McMAHON Agnes Mary 267 Alma Street, Rockhampton Dressmaker
McMAHON John James 267 Alma Street, Rockhampton Labourer
McMAHON Mary 267 Alma Street, Rockhampton Home duties.
1913
TUSTAIN Frederick Thomas Cnr Alma & Stanley Street, Rockhampton Labourer
1919
TUSTAIN Agnes Mary Frances 267 Alma Street, Rockhampton Dressmaker
Cando
Edited to highlight the addresses as they are the same as the illegitimate birth to Agnes Mary McMAHON in 1911.
-
Do you know if the Brisbane Street, Ipswich address was an institution?
It would appear that the Salvation Army had homes for unmarried mothers in Rockhampton and ?Ipswich. I understand they also had homes for the children of these unmarried women.
Cando
Edit to add info.
-
It appears that Vivian Promethues MCMAHON did marry Lil(l)y Elizabeth (nee BAVISTER, formerly HUGHES). Sue found them on the ERoll in Reply #14.
Passenger list from the UK to Sydney 1959 - their birth dates prove them to be the correct couple:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yyn/
Lily Elizabeth BAVISTER b. 19 Aug 1907 Parents: Edwin BAVISTER & Mary Elizabeth BUCKENHAM #009271.
Her first marriage was 15 Dec 1928 was to Harold Gleeson HUGHES #003338
She died Lilly Elizabeth MCMAHON 5 Aug 1976 Parents: Edwin BAVISTER & Mary Elizabeth BUCKENHAM #B71171
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yyo/
-
Birth certificate info:
Kevin Hamilton McMahon
Lady Bowen Hospital, Wickham Terrace, Brisbane
Born: 6 October 1899
Mother: Agnes McMahon, 19 years old from Aramac, Queensland
Certified in writing by Agnes McMahon, mother, Breakfast Creek
Registrar signed it 25 October 1899
There is a BD date of 1969
There are miscellaneous other dates 6 April 1935, 26 Sept 88, 17 Nov 1994, .19.26
Ellen May McMahon
Pine Street, North Ipswich
Born: 5 May 1901
Living Years: Kevin Hamilton 1 10/12
Mother: Agnes McMahon, 20 years old from Aramac, Queensland
Certified in writing by Agnes McMahon, mother, Pine Street, North Ipswich
Registrar signed it 13 May 1901
BD 12359/47, other date 20 Nov 1863
William Frederick McMahon
Brisbane Street, Ipswich
Born: 3 August 1903
Living Years: Kevin Hamilton 3, Ellen May 2
Mother: Agnes McMahon, 23 years old from Aramac, Queensland
Certified in writing by Agnes McMahon, mother, Brisbane Street, Ipswich
Registrar signed it 30 Sep 1903
Dates: 1/6/38, 15 Jun 1951
Vivian Promethues McMahon
Brisbane Street, Ipswich
Born: 10 Jul 1905
Living Years: Kevin Hamilton 5, Ellen May 4, William Frederick 2
Mother: Agnes McMahon, 24 years old from Aramac, Queensland
Certified in writing by Agnes McMahon, mother, Brisbane Street, Ipswich
Registrar signed it 3 Aug 1905
Dates: BM 1954, 21 Jan 1987
Eileen McMahon
Womens Hospital, West Street, Rockhampton
Born: 12 April 1911
Mother: Agnes McMahon, 24 years old from Aramac, Queensland
Certified in writing by Agnes McMahon, mother, Alma Street, Rockhampton
Registrar signed it 18 April 1911
-
There is a family tree on Ancestry which indicates that Kevin was adopted at birth by William and Margaret CREECH and changed his surname back to McMAHON when he was about 21.
Debra :)
There is circumstantial evidence to support this.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114584733?searchTerm="kevin creech"&searchLimits=l-textSearchScope=*ignore*%7C*ignore*|||l-word=*ignore*%7C*ignore*
1911 Kevin CREECH, a schoolboy recited something at a function to mark Arbor Day at Cloyna School July 1911.
There are no further BMD records in the name Kevin CREECH in QLD, including birth.
A couple named William CREECH and Margaret Mary (nee TYRELL) had a number of chn in the 1890’s in QLD and a few infant and early deaths too.
W. Creech was on the committee of the school as noted in this article.
A death notice for William CREECH in 1919 notes a family of daughters and one son, but does not name them.
Sue
-
Thank you. :)
Eileen McMahon
Womens Hospital, West Street, Rockhampton
Born: 12 April 1911
Mother: Agnes McMahon, 24 years old from Aramac, Queensland
Certified in writing by Agnes McMahon, mother, Alma Street, Rockhampton
Registrar signed it 18 April 1911
Are the signatures of the mothers on all the birth certificates identical?
Address of the mother on the 1911 birth certificate is the same on the electoral roll for Agnes Mary McMAHON and Agnes Mary TUSTAIN
Something not quite right here with the ages.
19 years in 1899
20 years in 1901
23 years in 1903
24 years in 1905
24 years in 1911
No previous births noted on the 1911 birth registration.
Marriage
1883
McMAHON John James
McMAHON Mary
8 Nov 1883
Births to John James McMAHON and Mary McMAHON nee McMAHON. I'm having internet problems today and the Qld BDM site is very slow and so is the subscription based website.
1884
McMAHON Agnes Mary
1886
McMAHON John James
1888
McMAHON Elizabeth Kate
1892
McMAHON Margaret Ann
1896
McMAHON Eileen Maud
Cando
-
Agreed the 1911 birth doesnt convincingly match the previous ones. Perhaps by this stage all kids were adopted and she sought a fresh start?
Perhaps the registrar didnt ask the information.
These I do not believe are the signatures of the mother but are the writing of the registrar or the nurse attendee.
-
I am a bit confused about the signatures as you have written Certified in writing by Agnes McMahon....... Do you have a copy of the original certificate or something transcribed from the registers by Qld bdm staff? I am not at all familiar with Qld bdm's but if the birth was registered by the mother then the mother's signature should appear HOWEVER if the birth was registered by hospital staff then naturally the staff member's signature would appear. I am only speaking from experience with Victorian birth certificates.
It would be certainly a co-incidence to have two Agnes Mary McMAHON's born in Aramac c1881-1884 and living in Rockhampton and Ipswich and having illegitimate children.
I did wonder if Agnes Mary was in a home for unmarried mothers. Perhaps her parents didn't know what was happening in Ipswich.
Bit of a blow not having signatures to compare :(.
Cando
-
The first child was born in hospital, with the mother shown at a different address.
The next three Ipswich births show the mother at the same address as the birth address. Perhaps this was a home for unmarried mothers. The Queensland State Library may be able to assist with this.
Regards
Jennaya
-
I have re-read this thread.
It looks to me like Agnes had her 5 children and then married Frederick Tustain. He then went to WW1 and was killed (the F prefix on his 1922 death registration)
Agnes then had a child "Kelson" who died aged 10months in 1920. This child's death registration C1118 shows Agnes Mary Frances TUSTAIN as the mother but no father.
-
F.T.Tustain killed in action 23/10/1916.
Inform Mrs A.M.F. Tustain
NOK Mrs Tustain, cr Denman & Murray Sts, Rockhampton
The above info from National Archives war service records
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=6040976
Regards
Jennaya
-
I can't find a previous marriage in Qld for Frederick Tustain to explain why he wasn't married to Agnes earlier.
-
Would Agnes have changed her name?
There is a marriage of Agnes McMahon in 1927 to Arthur Edward O'Toole and another in 1937 to Arthur James Clark.
-
Yes, I think there is a possibility that she remarried. There was no reason not to as her husband was deceased.
-
I was also wondering if Agnes was married prior to her marriage to Tustain, but can't find any real possibilities in Qld.
-
Probably worth noting again that in reply #21, regarding the brief engagement of Vivian McMAHON, it is noted he is referred to as son of Mr and Mrs McMAHON.
No mention of the name TUSTIAN.
We know Vivian as a fanciful character and this could explain the choice of wording about his parentage, but it may actually be that she was still using the surname MCMAHON.
Sue
-
A letter from the trenches
www.rootschat.com/links/0yyz/
And another one giving info about his brothers
www.rootschat.com/links/0yz0/
Letter of sympathy to his family
www.rootschat.com/links/0yz1/
Theft from Mrs Tustain
www.rootschat.com/links/0yz2/
And more on the theft
www.rootschat.com/links/0yz3/
In memorium
www.rootschat.com/links/0yz4/
Moderator Comment: Long links shrunk using RootsChat Shrink Link (http://www.rootschat.com/links/)
-
Probably worth noting again that in reply #21, regarding the brief engagement of Vivian McMAHON, it is noted he is referred to as son of Mr and Mrs McMAHON.
No mention of the name TUSTIAN.
We know Vivian as a fanciful character and this could explain the choice of wording about his parentage, but it may actually be that she was still using the surname MCMAHON.
Sue
Its hard to know what to make of this. The fiancee's family would have put the notice in the paper. Had they met Vivian, given that the engagement was in Korea? Could it be an assumption by them that his parents were Mr and Mrs McMahon, as Vivian used McMahon as a surname? Could Vivian have let them assume this? Back in those days illegitimacy was frowned on.
-
I just ordered the William Wallace certificate. Its decidedly different to the other ones. I find it odd that someone would go from Victoria to Queensland to have a baby.
Could this still be the same Agnes McMahon but using falsified details or is Agnes McMahon just a common name?
3 August 1896
Boundary Street, Spring Hill (Brisbane)
William Wallace McMahon - present
Agnes McMahon - 21 Years, Melbourne, Victoria
Certified by Agnes McMahon, Boundary Street, Spring Hill
Certified 31 August 1896
-
This is very confusing - not sure what is going on.
A search of National Archives Records show 2 Tustain's in WW11
A Frederick William born 1914 at Rockhampton (Could this be another child born after the marriage?)
There is another female who may still be alive. Born at Rockhampton with NOK Agnes Tustain. This child was born many years after the husbands death in WW1.
-
I just ordered the William Wallace certificate. Its decidedly different to the other ones. I find it odd that someone would go from Victoria to Queensland to have a baby.
Could this still be the same Agnes McMahon but using falsified details or is Agnes McMahon just a common name?
3 August 1896
Boundary Street, Spring Hill (Brisbane)
William Wallace McMahon - present
Agnes McMahon - 21 Years, Melbourne, Victoria
Certified by Agnes McMahon, Boundary Street, Spring Hill
Certified 31 August 1896
Was there a father shown on this certificate?
-
I just ordered the William Wallace certificate. Its decidedly different to the other ones. I find it odd that someone would go from Victoria to Queensland to have a baby.
Could this still be the same Agnes McMahon but using falsified details or is Agnes McMahon just a common name?
3 August 1896
Boundary Street, Spring Hill (Brisbane)
William Wallace McMahon - present
Agnes McMahon - 21 Years, Melbourne, Victoria
Certified by Agnes McMahon, Boundary Street, Spring Hill
Certified 31 August 1896
He died aged one year. Perhaps you will need the death certificate (it's getting expensive LOL)
-
I have re-read this thread.
It looks to me like Agnes had her 5 children and then married Frederick Tustain. He then went to WW1 and was killed (the F prefix on his 1922 death registration)
Agnes then had a child "Kelson" who died aged 10months in 1920. This child's death registration C1118 shows Agnes Mary Frances TUSTAIN as the mother but no father.
I posted the Kelson's burial details previously.
I suspect that Agnes had chn after her husband was killed. There are many TUSTAIN snips on the Rockhampton newspapers. I didn't bother shrinking the links and posting as every TUSTAIN mentioned is this family.
The common fact with the birth certificates that the OP has sent me is Agnes McMAHON born Aramac Qld in the early 1880's.
How many Agnes [Mary] McMAHON's were born at Aramac 1881-1884?
Cando
-
I just ordered the William Wallace certificate. Its decidedly different to the other ones. I find it odd that someone would go from Victoria to Queensland to have a baby.
Could this still be the same Agnes McMahon but using falsified details or is Agnes McMahon just a common name?
3 August 1896
Boundary Street, Spring Hill (Brisbane)
William Wallace McMahon - present
Agnes McMahon - 21 Years, Melbourne, Victoria
Certified by Agnes McMahon, Boundary Street, Spring Hill
Certified 31 August 1896
He died aged one year. Perhaps you will need the death certificate (it's getting expensive LOL)
The death is on the thread. I think this certificate is unnecessary.
People were mobile and families moved for work.
As the mother doesn't actually sign the register there is no way of validating any information. Pity.
Cando
-
Yes expensive and this will be the final ones I order for a while.
Eileen McMahon
Died 7 December 1911
Corner Alma and Stanley Streets, Rockhampton
7 months and 26 days
Mother Agnes McMahon
Adopted mother Ethel Burton
Corner Alma and Stanley Streets, Rockhampton
Registrar signed 8 Dec 1911
William McMahon
Died 15 Sep 1910
Alma, Rockhampton
Aged 6 months and 3 days
Mother Agnes McMahon
Certified in writing by grandmother Mary McMahon, Alma Street, Rockhampton
Certified 15 Sep 1910
William Wyllie McMahon
Died 7 Nov 1897
Hale Street, Petrie Terrace, Brisbane
Aged 1 year 3 months, 6 days
Mother Agnes McMahon
Certified in writing by Agnes McMahon, mother, National Hotel, Petries Bight
Registrar Certified 10 Nov 1897
Born Brisbane
-
Eileen McMahon
Died 7 December 1911
Corner Alma and Stanley Streets, Rockhampton
7 months and 26 days
Mother Agnes McMahon
Adopted mother Ethel Burton
Corner Alma and Stanley Streets, Rockhampton
Registrar signed 8 Dec 1911
William McMahon
Died 15 Sep 1910
Alma, Rockhampton
Aged 6 months and 3 days
Mother Agnes McMahon
Certified in writing by grandmother Mary McMahon, Alma Street, Rockhampton
Certified 15 Sep 1910
Birth
1884/C25
McMAHON Agnes Mary
Father John James Mother Mary McMAHON
Marriage
1913/C3065
TUSTAIN Frederick Thomas
McMAHON Agnes Mary Francis
Australian Electoral Roll
1908
McMAHON Agnes Mary 267 Alma Street, Rockhampton Dressmaker
McMAHON John James 267 Alma Street, Rockhampton Labourer
McMAHON Mary 267 Alma Street, Rockhampton Home duties.
1913
TUSTAIN Frederick Thomas Cnr Alma & Stanley Street, Rockhampton Labourer
1919
TUSTAIN Agnes Mary Frances 267 Alma Street, Rockhampton Dressmaker
Cando
-
I just ordered the William Wallace certificate. Its decidedly different to the other ones. I find it odd that someone would go from Victoria to Queensland to have a baby.
Could this still be the same Agnes McMahon but using falsified details or is Agnes McMahon just a common name?
3 August 1896
Boundary Street, Spring Hill (Brisbane)
William Wallace McMahon - present
Agnes McMahon - 21 Years, Melbourne, Victoria
Certified by Agnes McMahon, Boundary Street, Spring Hill
Certified 31 August 1896
He died aged one year. Perhaps you will need the death certificate (it's getting expensive LOL)
The death is on the thread. I think this certificate is unnecessary.
People were mobile and families moved for work.
As the mother doesn't actually sign the register there is no way of validating any information. Pity.
Cando
Hi Cando
I was just wondering whether the info on the death cert re the mothers place of birth was the same as on the birth certificate. Could she have given incorrect info on the birth cert (eg making herself of adult age). Could it show adoption info?
Regards
Jennaya
-
Adoptions were of an informal nature in Australia until c1925-29 depending on which State. Legislation was passed in these years in the various states. Can't recall the exact information off hand.
People were not always honest with information about themselves or others on certificates especially with illegitimate births. I am not aware of any requirement for the mother or informant of the deceased to state their own place of birth or their age.
The Agnes McMAHON the mother of chn born between 1899 and 1911 was born Aramac Queensland. Of course there could be two but you would need to buy several certificates to find the second Agnes. Assumption that Agnes Mary McMAHON whose brother enlisted in WW1, born Aramac and named his sister Agnes Mary McMAHON of Rockhampton who was possibly also born at Aramac, as his NOK may be incorrect but I think it needs to be considered as a strong possibility.
All we do is find the info and then the OP has to use it as he/she thinks appropriate :)
Cheers
Cando
-
This is very confusing - not sure what is going on.
A search of National Archives Records show 2 Tustain's in WW11
A Frederick William born 1914 at Rockhampton (Could this be another child born after the marriage?)
There is another female who may still be alive. Born at Rockhampton with NOK Agnes Tustain. This child was born many years after the husbands death in WW1.
This birth was posted earlier in the thread. As I mentioned there were numerous mentions of TUSTAIN chn including Frederick, in the Rockhampton newspapers and they were before Frederick William TUSTAIN married Madge....and I can't remember her surname. Mentioned in the death of her mother in the death notices in the Rockhampton Newspapers.
Probably need to make notes as there is a lot of info on the thread about the family and extended family :)
Cando
-
Just a comment...
The information about Agnes's place of birth would be on her birth and marriage certificates.
Cando
-
Assuming the certificate could be found. Theres not a lot of options on the QLD BDM
-
Are you completely dismissing Agnes Mary McMAHON who lived at Rockhampton from your research now?
Cando
-
Hi cerberuscoins
I hadn't been able to find which birth either, but with Cando's posting of John James and Mary on the Rockhampton electoral rolls at the sames address as Agnes, I think her birth is 1884 C25 with parent's John James and Mary. The C denotes a country area birth as opposed to Brisbane.
I think this would also make her a bit young to be the mother of William Wallace.
Regards
Jennaya
-
William Wyllie McMahon
Died 7 Nov 1897
Hale Street, Petrie Terrace, Brisbane
Aged 1 year 3 months, 6 days
Mother Agnes McMahon
Certified in writing by Agnes McMahon, mother, National Hotel, Petries Bight
Registrar Certified 10 Nov 1897
Born Brisbane
William Wylie MCMAHON is buried with Agnes MCCARTNEY:
https://online.brisbane.qld.gov.au/cemeteries/cemeteries_step3.jsp?mapdisplay=188113
-
I havent ruled our Agnes Mary McMahon just yet.
If its plausible that she gave birth to 4-5 kids with no father its also plausible (although unlikely) she could have been a 13 year old giving birth.
Were all QLD births registered?
The 1884 Agnes and the 1887 Agnes will be the next certificates to be ordered. It will take a while for me to get them.
The 1894 and 1897 Agnes options may help determine if the Rockhampton Agnes is a different person.
Any other Agnes to pursue? What about the one born in Victoria?
-
This is the National Hotel, Petries Bight in 1890 where the mother listed her residence at the time of the birth of William Wylie McMahon
http://www.yourbrisbanepastandpresent.com/2010/02/national-hotel.html
From Merlins link this Agnes was born in 1850.
-
This is an impressive building!!
-
Only really two possibilities...well in my opinion ::).....your mention of Rockhampton may have created a red herring ;D
Prefix B = Brisbane event C = Country event
Birth
1884/C25
McMAHON Agnes Mary
Father John James Mother Mary McMAHON
Marriage
1913/C3065
TUSTAIN Frederick Thomas
McMAHON Agnes Mary Francis
Death
1970/C7449
TUSTAIN Agnes Mary Frances
Father John James Mother Mary McMAHON
South Rockhampton Cemetery
SRC TUSTAIN Kelsen 10 months M Sunday, 1 February 1920 RC 33X 4595 Gastro enteritis
North Rockhampton Cemetery
TUSTAIN Agnes Mary Frances F 86 Sunday, 29 November 1970 Monday, 30 November 1970 RC C L 56
TUSTAIN Frederick William (ASHES) M 85 Thursday, 22 July 1999 Saturday, 14 August 1999 28 4 36
TUSTAIN Madge F 83 Sunday, 11 August 2002 Wednesday, 14 August 2002 CATHOLIC 28 4 36
OR
An online tree states that the parents of Maria Agnes McMAHON were married at Amarac however they did not have a son John James. Mother Ellen DWYER died in 1884 and Michael remarried in 1900 to Agnes Mary HOWARD.
Electoral Roll
1903 Capricornia/Calliope
McMAHON Agnes Mary Calliope HD
McMAHON Michael East Stowe GladstoneCarpenter
1905
McMAHON Agnes Mary Targinnie HD
McMAHON Michael Targinnie Carpenter
1908
McMAHON Agnes Mary Glenlyon Street Gladstone HD
McMAHON Michael Glenlyon Street Gladstone Carpenter
1925
McMAHON Agnes Mary Auckland Villa, Tank Street, Brisbane HD
McMAHON Michael Tank Street, Brisbane Miner
Birth from 1st marriage
1880/C4129
McMAHON Maria Agnes
Father Michael McMAHON Mother Ellen DWYER
Born 11 Sep 1880
Married 3 Sep 1907 and is shown in index as Agnes Monica
1907/C1579
MARTIN George William
McMAHON Agnes Monica
Australian Electoral Roll
1908
MARTIN Agnes Maria Thomas Street, Ipswich HD
MARTIN George William Thomas Street, Ipswich Moulder
1913
MARTIN Agnes Moria Musgrave Street, Bundanba HD
MARTIN George William Musgrave Street, Bundanba Moulder
1925
MARTIN Agnes Maria Frederick Street, Newtown, Ipswich HD
MARTIN George William Frederick Street, Newtown, Ipswich Ironmoulder
1936, 1937
MARTIN Agnes Maria Nitram, 21 Frederick Street, Newtown, Ipswich HD
MARTIN Esme Edith 21 Frederick Street, East Ipswich Nurse
MARTIN George William Nitram, 21 Frederick Street, Newtown, Ipswich Iron Moulder
1943, 1954
MARTIN George William Nitram, 21 Frederick Street, Newtown, Ipswich Iron Moulder
Deaths
1941/B052778
MARTIN Maria Agnes
Father Michael McMAHON Mother Ellen DWYER
Died 16 Jul 1941
1959/B033155
MARTIN George William
3 Aug 1959
Father William Mannering Mother Elizabeth HEWSON
I have probably created more confusion.
All very speculative.
Cando
-
Known as Agnes Maria in the electoral roll and funeral notice.
Courier Mail 17 Jul 1941
MARTIN. — The Relatives and Friends of Mr.G. W. Martin and Family are invited to at tend the Funeral of his beloved Wife and their Mother, Agnes Maria Martin, to leave her late residence, 21 Frederick Street, East Ipswich, at 3.16 This (Thursday) Afternoon, for the Crematorium, Mt. Thompson.
Cando
-
Thank you for all the info. There is a LOT to consider!
Next step is for me to find the newspaper marriage notice of my ancestor (I have ordered the certificate):
Thomas Philip Smith
Ellen May McMahon
26 Nov 1919 in Ipswich
- Once I am flush with funds to look at the certificates.
- I will also see if I can find some of the living McMahon children or their descendants and see if they have family stories about the McMahon line.
-
Known as Agnes Maria in the electoral roll and funeral notice.
Courier Mail 17 Jul 1941
MARTIN. — The Relatives and Friends of Mr.G. W. Martin and Family are invited to at tend the Funeral of his beloved Wife and their Mother, Agnes Maria Martin, to leave her late residence, 21 Frederick Street, East Ipswich, at 3.16 This (Thursday) Afternoon, for the Crematorium, Mt. Thompson.
Cando
I would go with this Agnes, one that Cando has as a possibility. This ties in with Reply #34 and the mother named on BDM death of son (11/3/1951 C1235 William Frederick McMahon; Father -; Mother- Agnes Maria McMahon)
Birth: 11/9/1880 C4129 Maria Agnes McMahon; Father - Michael; Mother - Ellen Dwyer
Marriage 3/9/1907 C1579 Agnes Monica McMahon and George William Martin
Death: 16/7/1941 B52778 Maria Agnes Martin; Father-Michael McMahon; Mother-Ellen Dwyer
Notices include other names that may be from this marriage? or husbands previous children?
However the 1942 'In Memoriam' has a notice "Inserted by her loving son Bill"
In Memoriam 16/7/1942 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/113965772
In Memoriam 16/7/1945 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114607552
In Memoriam16/7/1947 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/118389810
In Memoriam 16/7/1952 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/122034965
Can find at least one child of this marriage:
Birth 16/10/1913 C7194 Esme Elizabeth Martin; Father-George William; Mother-Agnes Morica McMahon
Marriage 23/12/1939 C4600 Esme Elizabeth Martin and Henry Richard Bruce
Death 18/10/1982 8129 Esme Elizabeth Bruce; Father-George William Martin; Mother-Agnes Maria McMahon
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Hi cupoflife and Cando
William Frederick McMahon death certificate named Agnes Maria McMahon as his mother - no father. He was born in Ipswich, Queensland in 1903 so this certainly fits for the right person.
Wouldnt his mothers married name (if she married) be reflected on that document?
-
I think the death certificate asks for mother's maiden name - not 100% sure though.
-
Thanks Jennaya..you are right.... ;D
-
Hi cupoflife and Cando
William Frederick McMahon death certificate named Agnes Maria McMahon as his mother - no father. He was born in Ipswich, Queensland in 1903 so this certainly fits for the right person.
Wouldnt his mothers married name (if she married) be reflected on that document?
Do you have the death certificate or are you quoting from the INDEX? If the index states his mother as Agnes Maria McMAHON and no father, that is what will be on the certificate.
Agnes Maria's brother Michael was born 3 Sep 1882 at Aramac and baptised 28 Oct 1883 at St Mary's Catholic Church, Ipswich.
I suggest you have a search of the parish records for possibly baptisms of Agnes's illegitimate children. Perhaps St Mary's at Ipswich may be a good place to start.
Agnes's brother's funeral notice
Queensland Times 23 Apr 1946
McMAHON Relatives and Friends of Mrs.M.J. McMAHON and FAMILY 10 Dorling-street, are Invited to attend the Funeral of her dearly beloved Husband, their Father, Father-In-law and Grandfather. MICHAEL JOHN McMAHON. to leave St. Mary’s Church. THIS (TUESDAY) AFTERNOON at 2 o’clock for the Ipswich Cemetery.
Agnes and George MARTIN had two children Esme and a son who was born after 1914 limit of births in Qld.
I don't have time at the moment to do any research.
Cheers
Cando
-
Hi Cando
Quoting the certificate.
Ive just emailed the Church about possible baptisms as a starting point.
Regards
-
Son of Agnes and George:
Marriage: 16/12/1939 C4584 Hewson Mannering Martin and Alison May Tait
Death: 25/11/1984 57822 Hewson Mannering Martin; Father-George William; Mother-Agnes Maria McMahon
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Death of George (husband of Agnes)
3/8/1959 B33155 George William Martin; Father-William Mannering; Mother-Elizabeth Hewson
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Marriage of Hewson Mannering Martin and Alison May Tait
Queensland Times (Ipswich) 29Dec1939
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114173022
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Esme's wedding notice names her bridesmaids as Lorna SMITH & Gloria MCMAHON.
Perhaps they might be familiar to you?
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article122081103
-
Lorna Smith is my grandmother!
-
You might like to use the Trove newspaper site to search the name Gloria McMAHON.
Sue
EDIT
Just to ensure against privacy problems, the death of Hewson
1984 57822 Hewson Mannering MARTIN
Parents George William & Agnes Maria McMAHON
-
Coming of Age Party for Esme Martin (many names mentioned)
Queensland Times 20Oct1934
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/118557757
3 cousins (Duggan, Bruce, Fullelove) invited to be attendants at Gloria McManhon's wedding
Sunday Mail (Brisbane) 16Nov1947 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/98312832
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Coming of Age Party for Esme Martin (many names mentioned)
Queensland Times 20Oct1934
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/118557757
3 cousins (Duggan, Bruce, Fullelove) invited to be attendants at Gloria McManhon's wedding
Sunday Mail (Brisbane) 16Nov1947 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/98312832
cheers :)
cupoflife
Just to clarify for Cerberus (following a PM from him) ;D Gloria is marrying R J BRIGHT.
Adding- per Reply #33 from cupoflife
Sue
-
Hi Cando
Quoting the certificate.
Ive just emailed the Church about possible baptisms as a starting point.
Regards
I suggest you contact this organization.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yzr/
Current publications
https://www.gsq.org.au/images/documents/Catholic_Parish_Records.pdf
Cando
-
Hi Cando
Ive just contacted the genealogical society as well.
Regards
-
Just be aware that research by genealogical societies involves fees.
Cando
-
Hi
The Qld Microfishe Births go to 1919.
Birth.
Kelson McMahon
M: Agnes Mary Frances Tustain
F: nil
Reg: 1919/B055701.
Gerry
-
Luckily I don't gamble as I would have bet on the Rockampton Agnes who married Tustain, but it doesn't look that way now.
I do now think that there were 3 Agnes McMahons having illegitimate children.
1. The Agnes who was from Victoria and the mother of William Wallace. She died as Agnes McCartney and was buried with her son. Modified: the Agnes Mccartney who died in 1932 was aged 82 so too old to be the mother
2. Agnes who was the mother of Kevin Hamilton, Ellen May, William Frederick and Vivian Promethues. She subsequently married George Martin and went on to have more children.
3. Agnes who was the mother of William b. 1910 and Eileen b. 1911. She subsequently married Mr Trustain and went on to have more children.
To the question of "How many Agnes McMahon's were born in Aramac and having illegitimate children?" reminds me of a family from my childhood, 3 brothers each gave one of their daughters the same christian name. The girls were all at school together!
Regards
Jennaya
-
I certainly am leaning towards option 2 being the correct one. Some great work by everyone to find as much as you have.
Apart from having ordered the marriage certificate for Ellen May McMahon and Thomas Smith and
Contacting the St Marys Church about the baptisms of Agnes children and
Contacting the QLD Genealogical society about the baptisms of Agnes children
What should I put on my shortlist to order or research? Is there any benefit in getting death certificates of Agnes and George Martin?
-
I think the death certificates could be worthwhile. However, they are only as accurate as the knowledge of the person giving the information. Perhaps it would be better to get the certificate of the person (Agnes or George) who died first as the other would be the informant. Possibly would know more than the children.
Regards
Jennaya
-
Now that would have been the easy option but they have made the journey difficult
Only Esme and Hewson mentioned as the children on the certificate.
Name as the QLD BDM indicates Maria Agnes Martin.
-
Only Esme and Hewson mentioned as the children on the certificate.
Agnes Maria's death certificate should have a column listing issue of the marriage [to George William MARTIN] both living and deceased at the time of her death. Only children of that marriage should be listed. I certainly wouldn't expect to find illegitimate children listed.
Why are you still questioning the parentage of the illegitimate children born at Ipswich and Brisbane to Agnes McMAHON born 1880 Aramac, whose parents married at Aramac and this same Agnes married George MARTIN and whose daughter's marriage news report mentioned your grandmother?
Esme's wedding notice names her bridesmaids as Lorna SMITH & Gloria MCMAHON.
Perhaps they might be familiar to you?
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article122081103
Merlin
Lorna Smith is my grandmother!
cerberuscoins
And Ellen May SMITH nee McMAHON was the illegitimate dau of Agnes McMAHON born c1880 Aramac with parents Michael McMAHON and Ellen DWYER. It's all on the thread. Perhaps you should chart all the information :)
Cando
-
Hi Cando
I charted it yesterday and it all makes sense. I guess I was just hoping to see her other kids on there :-) but understand why they arent
Also her name changes - Agnes Maria McMahon, Marie Agnes McMahon (plus otherspelling variants) and Agnes McMahon.
While she was giving birth to her 4 children she altered her name with the first birth she was probably sent away to Brisbane by her family?
If Im looking for Vivian McMahons death notice is Trove the best place to do that?
Thanks
-
Agnes may have been sent to Brisbane by her family for the first birth, however it's still possible that her future husband (George Martin) was the father of all the children. This is only conjecture, but the births are spaced every 2 years, in the normal pattern for the era. There may have been some reason for them not to marry until after the birth of Vivian.
-
If Im looking for Vivian McMahons death notice is Trove the best place to do that?
Thanks
That depends on where and when he died. Before 1955, Trove is a possibility. Because he has travelled the world, he may not have died in Australia. (Correct me if his death has already been located - this thread is quite long now)
Regards
Jennaya
-
Agnes may have been sent to Brisbane by her family for the first birth, however it's still possible that her future husband (George Martin) was the father of all the children. This is only conjecture, but the births are spaced every 2 years, in the normal pattern for the era. There may have been some reason for them not to marry until after the birth of Vivian.
Let's try and deal with facts. We have no proof that George was the father of all the children. They are not mentioned on Agnes Maria's death certificate and IF her husband was the father I would think they would be acknowledged as "their children" whether born before or after the marriage.
In 1899 Agnes McMAHON, 19, born Amarac was of Breakfast Creek not Ipswich when she certified in writing the information on the birth registration of Kevin Hamilton McMAHON. In 1903 Agnes' father Michael and step mother, Agnes Mary were living in Gladstone. There are some earlier rolls for Qld but I don't have access to them. I referred to church homes for unmarried mothers in Ipswich earlier in the thread, perhaps these should be followed up.
Name does not change. Maria Agnes was her registered given name on her birth and death notices however on the electoral rolls she chose to enrol as Agnes Maria. I would suggest that Agnes Monica was possibly a mistranscription. I would suggest she chose to be known as Agnes. It is not unusual to only see a parent's first given name on registrations and indexes.
I think you are waiting for a marriage cert for Ellen.
Cando
-
This may be Vivian McMAHON on the 1958 Electoral Roll
McMAHON, Vivian, 81 Frederick St. Toowong. No occ
McMAHON, Lily as above HD
Sue
If this is Vivian he would have died after 1955 so his death would not be found on Trove. I have found this death for a Lily McMahon aged 77yrs in 1961.
https://online.brisbane.qld.gov.au/cemeteries/cemeteries_step2.jsp?surname=mcmahon&firstname=&cemtry_cd=&start_row=181
-
If this is Vivian he would have died after 1955 so his death would not be found on Trove. I have found this death for a Lily McMahon aged 77yrs in 1961.
https://online.brisbane.qld.gov.au/cemeteries/cemeteries_step2.jsp?surname=mcmahon&firstname=&cemtry_cd=&start_row=181
This is not her...
I gave her birth, 1st marriage & death details back in reply #40 perhaps you should read them.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=684549.msg5289030#msg5289030
-
Sorry Merlin, I did read back through previous posts, but obviously missed it. I will be much more careful in future.
-
If Im looking for Vivian McMahons death notice is Trove the best place to do that?
Thanks
Vivian McMAHON only appears once on the electoral Roll (as given in 1958)
In 1951 he returned from overseas on ship New Australia according to this item (previously posted by Jennaya)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0z15/
He and Lilly (nee BAVISTER and listed as McMAHON) returned from a visit to England in 1959 (listed by Merlin) where their last address had been in Norfolk, but they had registered to vote in 1958, so not a very long trip perhaps.
Lily and her first husband were divorced in 1945 and by the 1954 Electoral Roll Lilly Elizabeth HUGHES is at Frederick St. Toowong doing HD’s. No street number is listed. There is another of the surname at a similar address who may or may not be relevant.
In 1963 and 1968, the E Roll shows Lilly McMAHON at 81 Frederick Street, Toowong. Vivian is not listed.
Sue
-
Hi everyone
1. I got the marriage certificate for Ellen May McMahon and Thomas Philip Smith today.
Ellens mother listed as Agnes Maria McMahon - no father listed. Ellen was living at Ellenborough Street, Ipsiwch and was aged 18 years. They were married in St Marys Church, Ipswich on 26 Nov 1918 (a typo as it took place in 1919).
*Edit* to add the witnesses. David Hecksher and Agnes Martin
2. I spoke to another family member about Kevin Hamilton McMahon and the link mentioned earlier about him being raised by the Creech family. They advised that Kevin was fostered not adopted. When the Creech mother died they listed Kevin as their foster son on her death certificate. He lived with the Creechs all his life so the fostering wasnt for a few months or years. They dont know how Agnes knew the Creech family. They havent found a link
-
Hi everyone
2. I spoke to another family member about Kevin Hamilton McMahon and the link mentioned earlier about him being raised by the Creech family. They advised that Kevin was fostered not adopted. When the Creech mother died they listed Kevin as their foster son on her death certificate. He lived with the Creechs all his life so the fostering wasnt for a few months or years. They dont know how Agnes knew the Creech family. They havent found a link
There was little to differentiate the two terms -foster/adopt-in those times.
Laws regarding legal adoption appeared in Victoria in 1928
http://prov.vic.gov.au/research/adoption-and-wardship
Sue
-
Hi Cerberus coins
It's good that you were able to find out about Kevin Hamilton. The brick wall is slowly being chipped away.
Regards
Jennaya
-
Hi
I heard from the genealogical society today:
Unfortunately there were no records for your family in St. Mary's Ipswich baptism index. However I did find in the marriage index records marriage records for:
William Frederick McMahon to Millicent Fullelove
Kevin Hamilton McMahon to Ivy Margaret Fowler
Ellen May McMahon to Thomas Philip Smith
Is there any benefit in ordering copies of these records - would they differ from the marriage certificates from the QLD BDM?
-
They were married in St Marys Church, Ipswich on 26 Nov 1918 (a typo as it took place in 1919).
Have you considered the parish record in Nov 1918 is correct and the marriage was registered in 1919. ;)
1919/ C3079
McMAHON Ellen May
SMITH Thomas Philip
Cando
-
Hi Cando
I think the registration took place 3 days after the event but will look into it when I get home.
-
Hi All
Just a quick update. In case there was any doubt I have received confirmation (by a daughter of one of Agnes children) that Kevin, Ellen, William and Vivian were all adopted/fostered out and were the children of Agnes Maria McMahon. Agnes Maria as she was known to the family after they found out she was their biological mother was quite involved in their lives.
I havent been able to find Vivian McMahons death nor any of the other childrens foster parents.
One of our family who I have gotten in contact with since you all helped me find the linkages has suggested:
There is a reference of Vivian crossing from Liverpool England to New York on the "Adriatic" 29 May 1926. He states that he was an American national and that his last address was with a Mrs J Ryan of Peak Crossing near Ipswich Brisbane.
Through the voting rolls I found at Peak Crossing a John Ryan and wife Bridget Frances. This couple were married in 1885 and had daughters Margaret b 19 Jan 1891 and Eileen Josephine b 10 Oct 1891. They would be the right age to foster/adopt a child b 1905.
Apart from this info there are two other records for a Vivian McMahon travelling - another in 1926 working on board as a trimmer and another in 1956 going from Germany to the USA.
I havent found any death record for the USA or UK or any state in Australia. I ordered his wifes death certificate which lists him as her second husband. She had 4 kids to her first husband but none to him.
-
It was noted somewhere in this very interesting thread (I think) that the death certificate of Mrs CREECH listed Kevin (nee MCMAHON) as her foster son.
Here is the death of Bridget RYAN.
Yr1956 REG B12842 Bridget Francis RYAN
Parents Joseph NEMETH Anne DOYLE** late Buxton
Is it worth opening the wallet again? :-\
Sue
ADDING- It was Reply #109 that mentioned it ;D
-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0z6q/
Hi
You need to read this to learn a good deal more about Vivian MCMAHON ::) .
He changed his name while living with the RYAN family to Michael RYAN and was with them until he was about 15. He then began his travels as per the previous lengthy newspaper article about him under his correct name.
Sue
-
The 1934 obituary of John RYAN of Rockton makes no mention of his foster son among children.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0z6r/
-
Hi,
Michael Ryan was listed a pupil at the Peak Crossing State School 1910.
Gerry
-
Hi Sue and Gerry
I never found that article in my searches - fascinating!
IN light of the article - Do you think its worth getting the mothers death certificate?
That would be two of the four childrens adoptive parents found.
Much appreciated
-
Hi Sue and Gerry
I never found that article in my searches - fascinating!
IN light of the article - Do you think its worth getting the mothers death certificate?
That would be two of the four childrens adoptive parents found.
Much appreciated
It's a difficult one ::)
As I say, there was no mention of the boy in John's obituary and it may be the case that Bridget also does not claim him in 1956.
Too hard for me to advise!
Sue
-
Ive got some other certificates ordered over a week ago that havent turned up so will wait for those to arrive then order this one. Sadly these are the postal kind and not the instant download type.
If Vivian McMahon returned home and there is no trace of him in the various states death databases then he may have gone back overseas leaving his wife behind. I had hoped that he would have been buried with his wife.
The article which referred to Vivian McMahon says he was adopted when he was 2-3 years old. Am I to assume that Agnes may have had for for that time or did they have orphanages during that period?
My next steps are to find Ellen May McMahon and William Frederick McMahons adoptive parents.
Thanks again!
-
Could his (Vivian) death have been registered under his adoptive name of Michael Ryan?
-
Not that I could find in QLD. I havent checked the other states though.
-
Hi,
Vivian was found on the 1958 Commonwealth Electoral Roll. This was an era when there were both the Commonwealth and State Electoral Rolls and the State Rolls which ended some time in the 1960s I think were annotated by an Electoral Office Official when someone didn't vote, or died etc.
I might be going to the Qld State archives this week and if I do I'll have a check on the State Rolls for 1958 onwards to see if Vivian is on the roll and maybe with annotations.
I'll also look at the Peak Downs School Index.
Gerry
l
-
My next steps are to find Ellen May McMahon and William Frederick McMahons adoptive parents.
Thanks again!
Looking at any possible link between the witness on Ellen May MCMAHON’s marriage certificate named David HECKSCHER as being in some way a member of an adoptive family for Ellen May MCMAHON does not produce anything decisive.
David’s parents were Benjamin and Annie (nee CLANCY) and he was born in 1888 (#C4023) He did not marry until 1947.
He had a brother named John Joseph HECKSCHER who married in 1900 to Catherine LEDDY (#C935) There were 2 children, but their boy died aged about 6 (#C1686) in 1906.
I was tempted to think this sad loss may have made them candidates as adoptive parents in the right time frame, but I cannot see further connection.
The engagement of their remaining child Rosalind refers to her as their only child in1937 and John HECKSCHER's death and funeral notices 1938 makes no mention of her either.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/39749231?searchTerm="heckscher" +toowong&searchLimits=l-textSearchScope=*ignore*%7C*ignore*|||l-word=*ignore*%7C*ignore*
::) ::)
-
Hi Gerry
Thank you.
Sparret - I contacted two people on ancestry who have that family in their tress. They don't look well researched so I dont know how much info they will have
-
No mention of Vivian in Lilly's funeral notice, but will PM notices as there are many other names. Address in funeral notice may assist other Rootschatters helping.
Funeral notice: Albany Creek Crematorium, Aspley
Lilly Elizabeth McMahon-Courier Mail Sat7thAug1976 page67
McMahon, Mrs Lilly Elizabeth, 657 Gympie Road Lawnton (late of 81 Frederick Street Toowong) ...
QLD Death: 5/8/1976 B71171 Lilly Elizabeth McMahon; Father-Edwin Bavister; Mother-Mary Elizabeth Buckenham
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
The Peak Mountain (Crossing) State School Register has the following for Michael Ryan.
He was Roman Catholic and he was enrolled in grade 1 on 4th October 1910 and his residence was Rockton and occupation of parent was a farmer. Date of leaving school was 12/19.
Gerry
-
Thanks for that Gerry!
Cupoflife: Im trying to contact some of the Bavister descendants to see if they remember Lilly and what happened to her second husband.
I had a look at the Toowong and Albany Creek cemetery lists in case she was buried there but didnt find anything. She may have just been cremated and her ashes spread elsewhere.
-
Hi,
Vivian McMahon was on the 1959 & 1961 Commonwealth Electoral Rolls at 1 Frederick St Toowong but not on the 1963 roll.
Gerry
-
Thanks Gerry - thats the latest record of him that Ive seen. So after 1961 hes?
The only descendant who Ive found said she saw a photo of Vivian during his time in in Hollywood on set and another family member who confirmed he was in the foreign legion all those years ago.
Ive ordered this certificate. Yr1956 REG B12842 Bridget Francis RYAN. Hopefully here in the enxt two weeks.
-
Update
I received some information about Vivian. He did die in Queensland in 1987. Sadly according to the QLD BDM I cant order his death certificate because 1984 is the cutoff year. Does anyone know they still be ordered if they are past this date?
He was in WWII enrolled as Michael Ryan.
In the Korean War as we have seen he enlisted as Vivian McMahon and ended up changing his name to Jefferson Munroe and kept that name until he died. In Korea he was medically discharged as a result of being wounded.
There is an official commemoration for him in the Garden of Remembrance for Korea.
Sidenote: I havent heard from other members Ive contacted about potential adoptive parents for the Ellen McMahon
-
Also received Bridget Francis Ryan death certificate
Living children Eileen Josephine and one female deceased.
Informant Eileen Josephine Dwyer
-
Hi cerberuscoins,
Could you please enlighten us as to what name Vivian was going by at the time of his death? What name is his death registered under? Do you have a date of death? Wonder if there was an article or at least a notice in the newspaper? Hope he had a grand send off as he seemed to love the limelight :)
-
The information I received said he changed his name to Munroe Jefferson and died in 1987 - I think it was January.
I received a phonecall and was madly trying to write down the info while parked on the side of the road.
It fits with the previously posted link to this:
http://www.koreanroll.gov.au/veteran.aspx?id=1219937
Where would I search for Queensland newspapers if they arent on Trove?
-
And he was meant to have married another woman.
-
http://www.australiancemeteries.com/qld/ipswich/columbarium_gndata.htm
24 January 1987
-
MMmmm...
Using the name by 1963 ;)
Electoral Roll 1963
611 Brunswick St. New Farm. Brisbane
JEFFERSON, Munroe. No Occ
No others of the surname share the address.
Sue
-
CourierMail27Jan1987pg10-Funeral notice
JEFFERSON, Munroe of 3 Vernon Street, Eastern Heights, Ipswich.
The Relatives and Friends of Mrs Amelia Jefferson, are respectfully invited to attend the Funeral Service for her dearly loved Husband, Munroe Jefferson, to be held at 2.45 o'clock, this Tuesday afternoon, in the West Chapel of Mt Thompson Crematorium. No Flowers by Request. Donations in lieu to the Queensland Cancer Fund.
-
Brilliant - thank you cupoflife
-
Not sure if this Trove article has been mentioned before.
=exactPhrase=vivian+mcmahon|||anyWords|||notWords|||l-textSearchScope=*ignore*|*ignore*|||fromdd|||frommm|||fromyyyy|||todd|||tomm|||toyyyy|||l-word=*ignore*|*ignore*|||sortby
In 1953 he is described as a 48 year old bachelor
-
Hi Jennaya
That link didnt work for me
Regards
-
I'll try again - I have problems with links
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/98274742?searchTerm=korea%20AND%20%22vivian%20mcmahon%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=vivian+mcmahon|||anyWords|||notWords|||l-textSearchScope=*ignore*|*ignore*|||fromdd|||frommm|||fromyyyy|||todd|||tomm|||toyyyy|||l-word=*ignore*|*ignore*|||sortby
-
I think it worked this time.
-
That worked. I did see this one in an earlier post.
He actually got his birth year correct for the story. Its certainly not for his WWII or Korean service.
Ive tried searching USA records for his enlistment on ancestry but not had any luck but perhaps havent tried all his known aliases.
-
Could this be Vivian Promethues McMahon? (have not seen one of these before)
Title: Ex Boy 1st Class, Vivian P McMahon http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yyd/
cheers :)
cupoflife
Hi Cupoflife
I just got the file today - it was Vivian!
He was in the Navy in 1923 before being discharged SNLR then tried to reapply in 1924 but got refused. He then enlisted using a friends birth certificate in late 1924, got discovered on another Naval boat before being discharged.
It makes for a great read!
Still no luck finding William or Ellens adoptive parents and still no response form the Catholic Church about any information that may relate to their adoptions.
-
Thanks for the update :)
Researching your McMahon family sure has been entertaining, none more so than the very colourful Mr Vivian Promethues McMahon/ Michael Ryan/ Munroe Jefferson and..?? finding that he enlisted using a friends birth certificate ;D ;D ;D
-
And Claude Felix Barlow!
-
Looks like Claude Felix Barlow was a colourful character too ;D
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=%22Claude+Felix+Barlow%22
-
A man of many alcoholic drinks ;D
Thank you for the links!
-
Michael O'Ryan (Vivian McMahon) married Rowena Lavinia ?
He stated they married in Port Vila, New Hebrides
She stated she had two children but I cant find if they were his or not. She was living in NSW in 1981
-
O'RYAN, Rowena, death 08May1994, age 80, late of Gladesville, formerly of Vanuatu and New Caledonia, Sydney Morning Herald 10MAY1994
Will PM notices
-
What a character :D
www.naa.gov.au (digital copy online)
Title: O'RYAN MICHAEL : Service Number - NX3723 : Date of birth - 10 Jul 1904 : Place of birth - VANCOUVER CANADA : Place of enlistment - PADDINGTON NSW : Next of Kin - ORYAN ROWENA
-
Dear Me!
It didn't work out ??? Divorce
http://search.records.nsw.gov.au/items/1178451;jsessionid=F84700860471399C728F8EE7136CE8B1
Sue
-
Hi
Yes that one is on there as I ordered it and it got delivered today. Once ordered it goes online for anyone to view. Looks like he had an interesting time in WWII
Fascinating insights.
-
Thanks again Cupoflife
Thanks Sue for the divorce info. Is the March 1948 date the actual date of divorce?
Assuming he wasnt fibbing about New Hebrides as the marriage place how would I find Rowenas maiden name?
-
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article29764647
Decre Nisi granted 1946
Rowena Lavinia Annie O'Ryan (formerly Nicholls) v Michael O'Ryan. Marriage, Feb
ruary, 1937. Issue, adultery.
regards,
Ros
adding : I can photograph the divorce papers for you next time I am at NSW RO if you wish - it may contain the marriage cert
-
Thanks Ros, you are a sweetheart :-* There is also another divorce paper of the daughter that may help cerberuscoins. Hopefully cerberuscoins will pm you the details.
Cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Fantastic - Ive PMed the details.
-
The Courier-Mail 27Mar1936 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/36799033
PARTIES TO HONOUR GUESTS Mrs A. H. Nicholls who was entertained at a farewell at Rowe's yesterday afternoon, will leave on her return to the New Hebrides on Saturday, having spent a long holiday in Australia. At the party the guests included Mrs. J. Jones, Misses D. Dent (Sydney), Mary Henderson, Rowena Nicholls. Pink Radiance roses decorated the table.
QLD Marriage 19/2/1937 B27359 Michael O'Ryan and Rowena Lavinia Annie Nicholls
The Courier-Mail 15June1937 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37058777
O'RYAN— NICHOLLS.— On February 19th, at the Presbyterian Manse, Gresham Street. East Brisbane, by the Rev. W. D. McIlwraith, Rowenn, second Daughter of Mr. and Mrs. A. H. Nicholls, Vila, New Hebrides, to Michael, Son of the late Mr. and Mrs. J. O'Ryan, Hackensach, New Jersey. U.S.A.
-
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/42225371?
Do the fantasies continue Michael O’Ryan soldier of fortune born in Virginia ;D ?
Cairns Post, Thursday 15 February 1940
Sue
-
Thank you again cupoflife
Sue - that certainly appears to be a mention of the colourful Michael O'Ryan. I havent found a US Army record him just yet.
-
I forgot to post and thank Ros publicly for finding those documents for me. They have been a great help.
Thanks Ros! ;D
-
Pleasure to help Revolution :)
cheers,
Ros
-
After 6 months I had Vivian McMahons Korean war record released. At his time of enlistment he was engaged to L.B Hulme-Moir of Willoughby, North Sydney. His birthdate listed as 10 July 1914 and place was Brisbane Queensland.. His occupation was hospital attendant.
He was in 4 Battalion R.A.R or later 3 R.A.R
His NOK was Mrs Bright - his niece of East Ipswich, Queensland
In 1980 some 7 years before his death he applied for his medals and was now signing his name as Munroe Jefferson who was living in Osborne Park, Perth, WA.
The letter he sent had a return address which included the sends name of A & M Jefferson.
He describes the late Mrs McMahon as destroying them without his knowledge.
He also goes onto say his wife destroyed pictures of his sojourn with the US 14 Infantry at Fort William Davis Canal Zone Panama. He describes his medal decorations as the tattoos he got. I still havent found any reference to his US military service.
Theres not much more in it than that apart from his poor health and discharge from the army