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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: jaxoncanine on Monday 28 April 14 22:13 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
Writing from NY/USA trying to find a death/cemetery record for my ggggrandfather..Research has dead ended with Him..Searched extensively on SP and Ancestry...Info is as follows:
Alexander Anderson b.1792 in Clyne, Sutherlandshire, parents unk.
Married Marion Mckay b. May,15,1804 in Dornoch, Southerland, Scotland on May,21,1825 in Dornoch.
Moved to Sorn Parish..I have the family in there in Glenlogan through the 1851 census, Family as follows;
Margaret b.1826, William b.1827 (My GGGF), Alexander b.1829, John b.1831, Jean b.1833, George b.1835, Agnes b.1841, Marion b.1843, Mary Anne Elizabeth b.1847.
I'm pretty sure that all the children except Jean and Agnes immigrated to the Canada or Australia.
I am looking for anything on Alexander and Marion Mckay that will help me continue my search, I really need death or burial records, and as I have said, I am at a dead end.
Any help, suggestions, or psychic advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Keith Anderson, NY/USA.
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Hi Keith,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
I take it that as well as finding out dates of death and burial locations you are hoping that these will give you Alexander and Marion's parents names and take you back another generation. If Alexander and Marion died pre-1855 there is a chance that there might not be a record and if there is it might give you little information - but you probably know that already.
Have you found any of the children on the 1861?
Looby :)
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Thanks, Yes I am looking for the parentage of Alexander and or Marion....I have found nothing on the children past the 1851 census, except for the 5 that immigrated out....Two of them are also conducting searches but they are stuck at the same place as I am.....
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Hi again,
Did oldest daughter Margaret marry a man called Parker Hoyle?
Looby :)
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Thanks Looby,
She is one of the ones that I do not have info on....
She is in the 1851 Census with all her sibs...
Shows age and place of birth (Tarlburton)...
I always assumed that she immigrated to Canada (Brant Ontario), with my GGGGfather..But I could not find her there.
Thanks
Jax
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Hi Jax,
I think this could be the marriage of Margaret Anderson to Parker Hoyle - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XT2J-BQ9
Parker Hoyle is on the 1851 in Sorn -a 31 year old Ironstone miner born in England.
Perhaps she did emigrate or maybe her family did. I certainly couldn't see Margaret (her place of birth is Tarbolton, Ayrshire incidentally) or her husband on the 1861 Census - of course the name could be badly mistranscribed or they could be dead. But I did find this which may suggest they did emigrate.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NSXN-TT5
Of course none of this helps locate Alexander or Marion Anderson's origins. You have quoted quite a specific date of birth for Marion McKay - 15th May 1804 at Dornoch. How did you come by that date? That date of birth relates to this birth - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X18P-NRH -
a Marion McKay born to an Alexander McKay and Jean Murray. But there are several Marion McKay births in the Dornoch area at this time :-\
Looking at the list of children's names on the Census and assuming no-one had died - If Alexander and Marion had followed the "traditional Scottish naming pattern" - one would expect-
Margaret ( Mother's mother's name)
William ( Father's father's name)
Alexander (Mother's father's name)
Jean (Father's mother's name)
The third son and daughter were usually called after their parents if the name had not already been used. Marion has called her fourth daughter Marion :-\. Of course although many folk used this naming pattern not everyone did!
Looby :)
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Hi again,
Split my post in case it was to long ;D
What I did find interesting looking at Family Search records on the family was that the family had a mass christening on 30th July 1839 with seven children all being baptized, including an Agnes Caldow Anderson born 2nd June 1838. This child must have died young as next daughter Agnes is born 4th Jan 1841.
I had hoped the middle name Caldow might be a helpful clue to a grandmother or other relative but tend to think this child was called after a friend :-\ There is an Agnes Caldew in Sorn in 1841.
Have you looked at the original Old Parish Record entry for this family christening? There might be no extra info but you never know!
Looby :)
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Wow, Thanks Looby.
If Margaret and William immigrated to USA, and ended up in Tennessee, I will find them.
William and his family moved from Brant Ontario to Tennessee around 1860.
I have found other family members who can do the footwork in Tennessee to help confirm this.
The naming pattern looks legit, but my GGG-Grandfather apparently quit using it as my USA Andersons did not use it..Do you have a citation for the Mass Christening?
In any event, I'll burn some credits on SP this weekend and hopefully tie up some loose ends.
If anybody in the group has any suggestions on where to look for Cemetery Records for someone who deceased as a Presbyterian in Glenlogan, Sorn parish might be buried, I would be grateful..My Cemetery database web-search was not fruitful..The Agnes Caldow connection may be my next big clue...Interesting note, I located most of the males working at the Glenlogan Iron mine from the Scottish Post Office Directory for Ayshire 1851-52....My next move is to update my Ancestry.Com Gedcom file and hopefully I can find someone who has a family member who has more data..
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Thanks so much Looby, I hit this broken tree root early last year and quit searching...Finding the Postal directory almost accidentally renewed my interest..If I was younger and in better shape I would take a leap over the pond to see my "root-Land" and search Cemetery and Church records....Maybe find a will or other legal citation..You help has been greatly appreciated.
Jaxon
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Hi again,
I actually live about about 10 miles from Sorn. But it's a place I'm rarely at because it is sort of out of the way in a rural location.
I will try and find out about burials for you. There is a small church at Sorn - http://www.scotlandschurchestrust.org.uk/church/sorn-parish-church
I noticed the mass christenings recorded on Family Search -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY7W-LZQ
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTKK-SV5
There are similar on the site for John, George, Jean, William and Agnes Caldow(the girl who must have died).
Looby :)
PS. I'll get back to you when I can with more info
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Thanks Looby,
Buying Credits at SP, hopefully with fresh names, I can find out more.
You have been a great help.
Jax
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Seeing all the kids being christened on the one day with the eldest being 13 makes me wonder if the parents were changing religious denomination??
Perhaps Alexander and Marion were baptized too??
Of course during this period of "Scottish Dissenters" many people had moved away from the established Church of Scotland.
Looby :)
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Hey,
I had the same thought.
Mass immigration and Faith change..Protestant to Catholic....
Maybe I need to look at Catholic Cemeteries over there..
There is historical evidence that the "Highland" Anderson clan left the highlands in the 17th Century and moved to the lowlands...Kicked out by the Sutherlands..And moved to the Aberdeen area as the Farquharson(Sp.) Clan variant...I believe that this is where my Andersons came from..I had some people on the Sutherlands Ancestry board help me find this..
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In this area, and at that time, it would be more likely Catholic to Protestant. The church in Sorn would be/is a Protestant Church. Or they may have been involved with a non-Conformist Church - http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?448
Looby
Added- the 7 baptisms are on Scotlands People - I did a free search
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Thanks Looby,
I Thought the Established Church went from Protestant to Presbyterian, although the RC was established about the same time, war of the Roses and all that...Around 1829 The RC church was allowed to establish inheritance and Tax laws...I assumed that this would spur Catholic converts...Interesting, I have been looking at it backwards...You are most helpful..Thanks again.
:) Jax.
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Hi Keith
Hope this might help. A privately printed book, "Records of a Family of Andersons of Peterhead" (1936) shows William Anderson in Brora, Sutherland, and his wife Margaret Squire as having 7 children. One is Alexander and all the book says about him is that he went to Ayrshire and had "a large family". The Clyne OPR confirms an Alexander baptised 31 Dec 1787 "son of William Anderson and Margaret Square [sic] in Brora".
I am certain he is the man you are looking for and that he understated his age by five years in both the 1841 and 1851 censuses - probably not wishing to appear that much older than his wife, or perhaps just vanity. There are trees on Ancestry (not that I trust them much) that will give you William's ancestry.
I am descended from one of William's brothers. We never knew what became of the Ayrshire Andersons and thought there were no male Andersons left. It's so nice to know I was wrong.
Best wishes
Pozzo
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Hi Keith
Hope this might help. A privately printed book, "Records of a Family of Andersons of Peterhead from 1560" (1936) lists seven children of a William Anderson in Brora, Sutherland, and his wife Margaret Squire. One of them is Alexander who went to Ayrshire and "had a large family" - no further details given. However, the Clyne OPR confirms an "Alexander son of William Anderson and Margaret Square [sic] in Brora" baptised on 31 Dec 1787. I'm certain he's the man you are looking for and that he understated his age in both the 1841 and 1851 censuses (not unknown!) - perhaps to conceal the fact that he was so much older than his wife, or perhaps just vanity. There are trees on Ancestry (not that I ever trust them much) that give William's ancestry (correctly) for a few generations. I am descended from William's brother John.
The Andersons are a most interesting family and were the founders of the Orient Line of steamers.
I always wondered what happened to the Ayrshire branch and we assumed there were no male Andersons left now. It's a pleasure to know I'm obviously wrong.
I'm happy to exchange further info.
Best wishes
Pozzo
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Hi Keith
A book, "Records of a Family of Andersons of Peterhead from 1560" (privately printed 1936), lists 7 children of a William Anderson in Brora, Sutherland, and his wife Margaret Squire. One of them is Alexander who "went to Ayrshire and had a large family" - no further details given. The Clyne OPR confirms an Alexander "son of William Anderson and Margaret Square [sic] in Brora" baptised 31 Dec 1787. I'm certain he is the man you are looking for and that he (as often happened) understated his age in the 1841 and 1851 censuses - perhaps to hide the fact that he was 17 years older than his wife, or just vanity.
There are public trees on Ancestry (which by the way I'm always wary of trusting) that will give you (correctly) William's ancestry back another few generations. I am descended from his brother John.
The Andersons are a most interesting family - they founded the Orient Line of steamers.
I often wondered what became of the Ayrshire branch and thought there were no male Andersons left now. It's a pleasure to know I was obviously wrong!
Happy to exchange further info.
Pozzo
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Sorry about the multiple posts. Am still trying to get the hang of this.
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Hello Pozzo,
Thank you so much for replying...I had forgotten about this post..You are descended from John McKay Anderson ? I am presently in email chat with another descendant of John, currently living in British Columbia, I also have tracked down other descendants of Williams sons and daughters who went to the USA and Canada..If you don't mind, perhaps you could share your tree back to William so that I could correct my tree..I have seen the trees on Ancestry, one of them is mine, one is from the offshoot that landed in Texas (Actually that was another of Johns offspring), a branch in Tennessee, USA, and One in Ontario, Canada..All descended from William, and apparently, his Grandfather William and Margret Squire. ..I have a GEDCOM i can send you, and am available at this email if you want to chat more privately..I would very much like to know more about your branch, and any information on William/Margaret such as DOB/DOD/Details on the other 6 children and such, I assume from your EMAIL addy that you are in the UK..Thanks in advance, hoping to hear more..
Keith Anderson
Albany, NY, USA
jaxoncanine@gmail.com
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Quick Follow up..I used the information you provided about the book and found this previously compiled research from it....I have found at least 3 more Generations...Thanks so much..Any info you have re: Alexander and Marion, would be appreciated..Specifically a DOD and any Burial information..Thanks again
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/jrghibbert/ftree/index.html#list
Andy
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Hi Keith, Pozzo,
I'm originally from Clyne parish and have a long time interest in William Anderson and Margaret Square.
Geoff Anderson in Australia ( descendant of William and Margaret) and myself believe that Margaret died pre 1794 and William married Ann Sutherland and had 7 more children.
I am descended from a William Anderson and Ann Sutherland so am interested in any information on this family.
The only likely way to prove that Your William is My William is via DNA. I have done Ancesty DNA and have made a lot of connections through my severald Sutherland lines.
If they are the same I do have full information on William and Ann Sutherland including gravestone pics.
Age difference in 1841 census rounded of to 5 or sometimes 10 years so far from accurate. 1851 better but ive seen plenty out by 10 years or more.
Grant
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The reference to Anderson and also William Anderson on this posting is of interest to me.
My relative William Anderson was born early 1800's and is thought to have died between 1845 and 1851, and I am unable to find any records of birth or death that I can confirm.
William's wife was Janet Stewart, who I have good information for, and their son William Stewart Anderson is my gg grandfather, who I have good information.
There is a record on Find a Grave for William Stewart Anderson who died 06/05/1845 at Greenock and is buried in the Inverkip Street Cemetery. I do not think this is my relative but the name fits and I am hoping addition information for this William Anderson may be helpful.
I look forward to possibilities.
Dave Anderson
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HI DAVE 106, DID YOUR WILLIAM WORK IN THE PAPER MILL IN GREENOCK IN THE 1800's
regards NANVILLE
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Hi Nanville
In the 1841 census my William is referred to as a merchant living in Doune.
In 1851 census William has died and his wife Janet is listed as a grocer.
A couple of other records refer to William as a grocer.
As I said in the previous post, I have not found any records of birth or death for William born about 1813 and died about 1845 to 1851, that I can confirm as my William. So I am trying to connect to relatives of my William.
I found the reference to William Stewart Anderson, who died 1845, on Find a Grave but can not find any records on ScotlandsPeople, that reference this person.
There is also a William Stewart Anderson born 6 March 1846 at Greenock, son of Andrew Anderson and Helen Elizabeth Campbell. Several years ago I was told this William may be a cousin of my William born 24 March 1846 at Doune. However, I can not find a positive connection.
A more recent lead I am working on is William Anderson born 3/12/1812 at St. Quivox, son of William Anderson and Janet Tinnock. Why? Well again a stab in the dark! My gg grandfather relocated to Saskatchewan, Canada in 1882. He was the first homesteader at Saltcoates, Saskatchewan. Records for this town reveal that the town was initially named Stirling, by William and Isabella, because they "came from" Stirling - William from Doune and Isabella from Alloa. But there was another town named Stirling so the name was changed to Saltcoates. May not have any correlation to Saltcoates, Scotland. And the adjacent lake known as Anderson Lake does not have salt water!
Your interest is appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave