RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: zoolane on Wednesday 30 April 14 23:53 BST (UK)

Title: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Wednesday 30 April 14 23:53 BST (UK)
Hi.

My Husband asked me to Post this Request...

Katherine McKenzie..Nee Cockerill...Born Approx 1902....Sibling Amy Spicer..Nee Cockerill..Born 1900.

Trying to find out what happened to my husbands Great Aunt...

All he knows is that she Emigrated to Canada...

When my Hubby was 13, in 1962, he used to correspond with her and, at that time, she lived in Hamilton, Ontario....No 121 Stapleton Avenue...

He Contacted the Local Library in Hamilton recently only to be told that the Road no longer exists....

He thinks that if he finds the Emigration details then he may be able to work from there and find Katherines Family...

Anyone help please????

Brenda




 
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Cockerill)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Thursday 01 May 14 00:00 BST (UK)
Sorry....Heading should Read "Katherine McKenzie(Nee Cockerill)b.1902...

Brenda
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 01 May 14 10:57 BST (UK)
Where was Katherine born and do you know husbands first name also was she married before she went to Canada  :)
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 01 May 14 11:12 BST (UK)
Is this Amy born 1900 Aston Warwickshire living 3.Williams Building Aston Warwickshire ..father Alfred 28, mother Kate 26, Annie  E 3, Ada 2, Amy 1... I can't post details of 1911 census but Alfred a widow then ...
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 01 May 14 11:28 BST (UK)
There is an immigration record for a Kate Cockerill aged 9yrs leaving from Liverpool 25th May 1912 arriving Halifax 8th June 1912 she appears to be with few other children from Middlemore home don't know if their is a connection ?
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Monday 05 May 14 18:17 BST (UK)
There is an immigration record for a Kate Cockerill aged 9yrs leaving from Liverpool 25th May 1912 arriving Halifax 8th June 1912 she appears to be with few other children from Middlemore home don't know if their is a connection ?



Hi Rosie...

Absolutely spot on.....Left Liverpool and landed in Halifax Nova Scotia.....Hubby remembers that she lived in Nova Scotia....

He did not know she was only 9 when she Emigrated...Thanks for the Information.....Now to try and find out what happened thereafter !!!!!

Hubby recalls, in one of Kate`s letter to him that she was involved in a Lumber Mill in Nova Scotia with her sons !!!! Very vague information here.....

Is there any way he can find out about the Marriage to .......McKenzie  and any Info on their Siblings ?????

Brenda
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 20:25 BST (UK)
Hi,

Perhaps Kate/Katherine was married twice  ???

There is a marriage in Nova Scotia for "Kate Cockrell" (as transcribed but clearly Cockerill on the image)  - Spinster - Presbyterian- Aged 17 years - residence Bedford - Place of Birth :- Birmingham England - Father :- Alfred Cockerill and Mother Kate Cockerill - The bride could read and write - Place of Marriage :- Middlemore Home, Fairview, Nova Scotia - Date 17th October 1919.
Groom :- Malcolm Ross - Farmer - Bachelor - Presbyterian - Aged 30 years - Father :- John M Ross - Mother :- Florence Ross - Bridegroom could read and write. Address Marsh Road. Pictou Canso  NS
Witness :- William S Ray - Fairview NS and Ellen A Ray, Fairview, NS.

https://www.novascotiagenealogy.com/ItemView.aspx?ImageFile=8-746&Event=marriage&ID=138850

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: groom on Monday 05 May 14 20:27 BST (UK)
Hi Brenda

This makes interesting reading.  http://www.childrenscottagehomes.org.uk/middlemore_emigration_homes.html

It looks as if your husband's aunt was part of the British Home Child where children were sent to Canada supposedly for a better life.

She is also on this list  page 43         http://www.bifhsgo.ca/cstm_homeChildren.php?page=43&sortCol=sna&srch=

There is  a lot about British Home Children is you google.

If this Kate is your husband's ancestor, how was contact remade as most children were either orphans or children who were separated from their families?

Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: groom on Monday 05 May 14 20:29 BST (UK)
Just seen your post Sandra and that fits doesn't it?
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 20:33 BST (UK)
Husband Malcolm Ross on the 1911 Canadian census

Pictou Nova Scotia 1911

John M Ross  54 April 1856. Farmer.
Malcom Ross  21 June 1889. Son. Farmer.
Catherine Ross  29 July 1871. Daughter.
Florence Sellers  20 July 1890. Lodger.


Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 20:37 BST (UK)
and in 1901 Pictou NS

John M Ross  44  2 April 1856 - Widowed - Farmer.
John A Ross  14  16 February 1887 - Farmers Son.
Malcom Ross  11  24 June 1889 - Farmers Son.
Kate Ross  9  23 july 1891 -  Farmers Daughter.

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 20:43 BST (UK)
1921 - Pictou NS - this is a little jumbled with regard to relationships. The transcribed page only gives John and Malcolm but the others are listed underneath.  ???

John M Ross  64 Born 1857. Widowed.
Malcholm Ross  70 - The age of Malcolm is 30 years on the image. Married.
Catherine Ross 19 - Daughter-in-law - born NS  ???
Mary E Ross - aged 11 months - Daughter
Catherine Ross - aged 28 years - Sister -
Georger Henry Ross  - aged 2 months. Grandson.

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 20:46 BST (UK)
The 1891 Canadian Census  shows Malcolm with Father and Mother - Pictou. NS

John Ross  36
Flora Ross  35 Born 1856 NS. Father Scotland. Mother Nova Scotia.
John A Ross  4
Malcolm Ross  1
Malcolm Ross  60 Born 1831 Scotland. Father.

Sandra

Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 20:52 BST (UK)
George Henry Ross shown on the census above was brought up by Malcom and Catherine according to his Obituary - Listed next post -

George Henry Ross - born 26 April 1921 in  Barney's River, Nova Scotia and died 27 December 2011 in  Canso, Nova Scotia.
Married to Davina Campbell Bell Wallace Born 5 July 1925 in Leslie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland and died 18 January 2001 in  MacLellan's Brook, Nova Scotia. Married 30 March 1950 Ontario.
Source Anc Tree. 

Sandra 
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 20:55 BST (UK)
Obituary :- George Ross 
Canso/Garden Of Eden - On Monday, December 27, 2010, George Henry Ross of Canso, formerly of Garden of Eden and MacLellan's Brook, passed away peacefully at the Eastern Memorial Hospital in the town of Canso. Born April 26, 1921 in The Marsh, Upper Barne...George was raised by his uncle Malcolm Ross and his wife Katheryn as their second child until the age of 11. It was then that his mother returned from the US and brought him to live with her and her husband, Findlay MacIntosh in the Garden of Eden. Although this was now home, George made frequent trips to visit his family in Barney's River. His fondest childhood memories were from there. George had served overseas in the Signal Corps. in the UK and Continental Europe etc etc.,

http://www.inmemoriam.ca/view-announcement-213476-george-ross.html

http://www.angusfuneralhomes.com/obituaries/58549

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 21:09 BST (UK)
All of the following obituaries will contain names of children and relatives - used in conjunction with http://www.canada411.ca/ you should be able to contact numerous relatives.  Much of the information we find is also on google so a member of these families may pick up on the thread and respond in due course.

HALIFAX HERALD - 2 JUNE 1997

Alfred Gordon (Alfie) Ross - 71, Plymouth, Pictou Co., died May 31, 1997, in QEII Health Sciences Centre. Born in Kenzieville, Pictou Co.  He was a son of the late John Malcolm Ross and Kathryn (Cockerill) (Ross) MacKenzie. He resided in Upper Barneys River in his earlier years and had been a resident of Plymouth for the past 54 years. He was an adherent of First Presbyterian Church, Stellarton, and a former member of the Orange Lodge, Eureka. He was a retired employee of the Department of Transportation, Hawker Siddeley Ltd. and the Allan Shaft, Acadia Coal Co. He was an avid outdoorsman, master woodsman, hunter, fisherman and farmer. Etc etc.,

Looks as if he had 3 brothers - plus George listed above and many sisters.  He was predeceased by a sister Carol.

Burial in Kenzieville Cemetery.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/CAN-NS-OBITS/2007-03/1174657179

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pictou/ds47.htm

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0z4z/ 


Sandra

Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 21:21 BST (UK)
The predeceased sister was - CAROL P. KURETSKI -  1988

Carol Patricia Kuertski, 47, of 531 High St., New Glasgow, died Tuesday at home.
Born in New Glasgow, she was a daughter of Katherine (Cockeral) and the late Malcolm Ross. She moved from Hamilton to New Glasgow to reside with her mother three years ago. She was previously employed at Tim Hortons on East River Road, and was an adherent of First United Church, Trenton. Surviving besides her mother are a daughter and 5 sisters, 5 brothers and several nephews and nieces.

Interment in Kenzieville  Cemetery.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/CAN-NS-GUYSBOROUGH/2006-05/1148089094

This Obituary also tells you that Kathryn was living 531 High St., New Glasgow, New Glasgow. Chances are she is also interred at Kenzieville Cemetery.

Sandra

Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 21:25 BST (UK)
John M Ross - 1856 - 1944

Flora his wife 1856 - 1899

Malcolm Ross - Husband of Kathryn - 1889 - 1943

Kathryn Ross 1902 - 1991

All buried Plot 237 -  at the time of indexing Kathryn Ross was not  listed on the stone -- her information was found in other resources -- most likely obituary listings.

John M. Ross is the son of Malcolm Ross  and Catherine Sutherland 

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pictou/nkbr.htm

Sandra 
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: groom on Monday 05 May 14 21:28 BST (UK)
Quote
Surviving besides her mother are a daughter and 5 sisters, 5 brothers

Does that mean Kate had 11 children? If so, presuming this is the correct Katherine, that means  zoolane's husband has a lot of cousins in Canada.
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 21:34 BST (UK)
Lots of relations by the look of things.   ;D ;D

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 21:41 BST (UK)
Daughter - Catherine Isabel Ross Bigney - 18 February 1931 - 30 August 2011 Estevan Saskatchewan, Canada.

Catherine passed away at the St. Joseph's Hospital, Estevan, SK. on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 at the age of 80.

Catherine is survived by her husband, daughter, granddaughter, 3 sisters, 2 brothers, sisters-in-law, brother-in-law and numerous nieces and nephews.

She was predeceased by her parents Mr. and Mrs. John and Kathryn Ross, sisters Margaret Campbell and Carol Kuretski -  brothers Alfred, Harold, and George Ross -  sisters-in-law Iola, Patricia, and Diane Ross; brothers-in-law Lawrence Campbell, Malcolm Clark, Don Ball, Howard Pace, and John Chisholm.

Burial: Oxbow Cemetery  Oxbow Estevan Census Division Saskatchewan, Canada.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0z4y/ 

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: valeriec on Monday 05 May 14 21:46 BST (UK)
www.canada411.ca

There are quite a few Ross's living on East River or River Road in New Glasgow that you may want to contact. There is still a listing for the wife of Alfred in New Glasgow. You could also contact the funeral home, H W Angus Funeral Home in New Glasgow for more info.
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 21:47 BST (UK)
Son Harold Leslie Ross - Born 5 th June 1927 - and died 21 January 2008 - Obituary has a photograph

Harold Leslie Ross  (June 5th, 1927 January 21st, 2008) Born in Barneys River, Nova Scotia, married in Hamilton and long time resident of Newmarket. Later moved to Keswick after retirement from Arborite Domtar. Adored father, grandfather and friend, Harold entered his journey into Heaven on Monday, January 21st, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. at Southlake Residential Village, Newmarket, to join his guardian angel and wife, Iola Ross. They are now both watching over all of us from up in heaven. etc etc

Interment at Queensville Cemetery.

http://www.obitsforlife.com/obituary/33364/ROSS-Harold.php

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 21:51 BST (UK)
In Memorium - Ioa Ross and Harold Ross -
Iola Ross   April 2, 2005   and   Harold Ross   January 21, 2008  -   To our Guardian   Angels up in the sky.   Mom & Dad As the years go by Tears still fill our eyes The memories of laughter, sadness and faith are all strong And will always live on The greatest gift you both left us To help carry on  Miss you both terribly. Names family.

http://www.lifenews.ca/announcement/1850236-ross-in-memoriam

Sandra



Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 05 May 14 22:31 BST (UK)
Husband of one of the sisters who lived in Elkhart Indiana as per obituaries - names the other way round.

Walter Malcolm Clark - 25 September 1918 - 9 May 1991 -
Last Residence :- 46514  Elkhart, Elkhart, Indiana, USA
SSN issued Indiana (1954)

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Monday 19 May 14 20:35 BST (UK)
Hi,

Perhaps Kate/Katherine was married twice  ???

There is a marriage in Nova Scotia for "Kate Cockrell" (as transcribed but clearly Cockerill on the image)  - Spinster - Presbyterian- Aged 17 years - residence Bedford - Place of Birth :- Birmingham England - Father :- Alfred Cockerill and Mother Kate Cockerill - The bride could read and write - Place of Marriage :- Middlemore Home, Fairview, Nova Scotia - Date 17th October 1919.
Groom :- Malcolm Ross - Farmer - Bachelor - Presbyterian - Aged 30 years - Father :- John M Ross - Mother :- Florence Ross - Bridegroom could read and write. Address Marsh Road. Pictou Canso  NS
Witness :- William S Ray - Fairview NS and Ellen A Ray, Fairview, NS.

https://www.novascotiagenealogy.com/ItemView.aspx?ImageFile=8-746&Event=marriage&ID=138850

Sandra




Hi Sandra.
Sorry for the delay in reading answers to my Posting but, you know what it is like !!!!
Also forgot where I Posted it !!!!
Anyway, you have Kate`s Father & Mother`s Name correct so, I presume, this is correct also....
Still reading and answering the rest of the Postings....
Brenda.
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Monday 19 May 14 20:43 BST (UK)
Hi Brenda

This makes interesting reading.  http://www.childrenscottagehomes.org.uk/middlemore_emigration_homes.html

It looks as if your husband's aunt was part of the British Home Child where children were sent to Canada supposedly for a better life.

She is also on this list  page 43         http://www.bifhsgo.ca/cstm_homeChildren.php?page=43&sortCol=sna&srch=

There is  a lot about British Home Children is you google.

If this Kate is your husband's ancestor, how was contact remade as most children were either orphans or children who were separated from their families?



Hi Jan.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
Hubbys Great Aunt was, indeed, a British Home Child....His Grandma told him so and also that his Gran kept in touch with her when she went to Canada...This is how she had her Address when she moved to Hamilton....
Still going through what all have Posted so I`ll get back to you if Hubby remembers anything else OK?
Brenda
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Monday 19 May 14 21:21 BST (UK)
Hi Jan and Sandra......
Have an apology to make, or should I say Hubby has one !!!!!!
Just re-checking the Info we have on Kate and we find that in the 1911 Census for England that Kate was born in 1905 and NOT 1902.....Sorry ....What more can I say?????
But, some of what has been Posted seems to tie up with what we have ie the sending of young children to Canada to start a new home etc....
But it may mean Re-Researching for a Kate Cockerill b1905 !!!!!....Back to the Drawing Board.....
Hope you both like challenges !!!!! Hope I have not wasted your time...Want to waste some more???
Hubby just off to bed now with a tail between his legs !!!!
I am going to go back to Kates File and re-read what we have and send you any more Info which may be of help tomorrow OK?
Apologies, once again.
Brenda
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: groom on Monday 19 May 14 21:44 BST (UK)
Hi Brenda

Before we start looking again, it might be an idea to check what we've found against what you know. The age on the census or even the passenger list may not be correct.
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 19 May 14 21:50 BST (UK)
Reply 5 with the marriage of Kate Cockerill - gave the correct parents.

Baptism of Kate Cockerill - Born 15 August 1902 and baptised 31 August 1902  Nechells, St Clement, Warwickshire, England.
Father Alfred Cockerill Mother:Kate Annie Cockerill - 3 Ionis Bldgs.

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 19 May 14 21:59 BST (UK)
Old message board posts :-

Seems Kathryn Ann Cockerill died 3 June 1991 New Glasgow Nova Scotia.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/COCKERILL/2003-11/1068989598

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/COCKERILL/2003-11/1069507089

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/COCKERILL/2003-11/1068989598

http://boards.tiscali.ancestry.co.uk/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=47&p=surnames.cockerill

http://boards.ancestry.ca/surnames.cockerill/68/mb.ashx (Excerpts from the life story of his great grandmother Kathryn Ann Cochrane who came alone to Canada in 1912 ) The poster lived in New Glasgow Nova Scotia.

The New Glasgow library, Nova Scotia has an e-mail link, so it might be worth asking if there is an Obituary for Kate Cockerill/Ross/McKenzie.

http://www.parl.ns.ca/locations/newglasgow.html

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: groom on Monday 19 May 14 22:07 BST (UK)
Everything points to it being the right child. I wonder whether her father wasn't sure of their ages and just put what he thought was right on the 1911 census?
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 19 May 14 22:09 BST (UK)
Or someone else gave the information to the enumerator.  ???

Have no doubt we have made the right connection - the 1911 age is an error.

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Tuesday 20 May 14 21:49 BST (UK)
Reply 5 with the marriage of Kate Cockerill - gave the correct parents.

Baptism of Kate Cockerill - Born 15 August 1902 and baptised 31 August 1902  Nechells, St Clement, Warwickshire, England.
Father Alfred Cockerill Mother:Kate Annie Cockerill - 3 Ionis Bldgs.

Sandra
 




Hi Sandra....
What I have from Hubby and what we have learned is as follows:
Father..Alfred Cockerill...1873-1936
Mother..Kate Annie (Nee Allen) ...1874-1911
Siblings
Annie E 1898
Ada 1899
Amy  1900-1966
Alfred  George 1901
Alfred George 1903
Kate 1905
Nellie  1907
Beatrice  1909

Not sure whether this helps !!!

Kate 1905 seems to be the one we are looking at ...

Brenda.

P.S.   You are still convinced that Kate was born in 1902 !!!! So why would the 1911 Census say she was born in 1905 ????
I do not doubt your Research but.....What to think.....Did the Census Lie ????  And for what reason ???
 Brenda...
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Tuesday 20 May 14 22:00 BST (UK)
Everything points to it being the right child. I wonder whether her father wasn't sure of their ages and just put what he thought was right on the 1911 census?




Hi Jan....

Re-Reading your Postings....Is the 1911 Census Incorrect? and how come?

It may be that Hubbys other Ancesters may have the Incorrect Ages!!!

Brenda
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Tuesday 20 May 14 22:23 BST (UK)
Old message board posts :-

Seems Kathryn Ann Cockerill died 3 June 1991 New Glasgow Nova Scotia.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/COCKERILL/2003-11/1068989598

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/COCKERILL/2003-11/1069507089

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/COCKERILL/2003-11/1068989598

http://boards.tiscali.ancestry.co.uk/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=47&p=surnames.cockerill

http://boards.ancestry.ca/surnames.cockerill/68/mb.ashx (Excerpts from the life story of his great grandmother Kathryn Ann Cochrane who came alone to Canada in 1912 ) The poster lived in New Glasgow Nova Scotia.

The New Glasgow library, Nova Scotia has an e-mail link, so it might be worth asking if there is an Obituary for Kate Cockerill/Ross/McKenzie.

http://www.parl.ns.ca/locations/newglasgow.html

Sandra





Hi Sandra.

Are we sure that this is the Kate Cockerill that my Hubby wants her to be?

Got the Birth date wrong but all you have Researched for me seems to make some kind of sense,,,,But Hubby is still not sure.....1911 Census!!!!....Still seems to be an Iffy !!!

Question>>>Why lie about about your childrens age by 3YEARS????? and no other lie about the others,,Eg..Hubbys Grandma was born in 1900 and her age in the 1911 Census was stated as being 11 !!!!

Question>>>> Is it possible that he wanted to escalate her age so as to be able for her to be eligible to emigrate to Canada?????...This would make more sense to me, do you  agree ?

If he lied then what Information you have discovered may be valid....

This is a dilemma.......

Brenda
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 May 14 22:26 BST (UK)
Hi,

The age on the 1911 is wrong  - it is not unusual for an age to be incorrect on a census record. Ages, immigration dates, marriage dates, naturalization dates can all vary - the information is only as good as what the informant knows, it depends who gave the information to the enumerator. The father had lost his wife Kate when that 1911 census information was given, any one could have given information on the family, not necessarily the father.  Look at all the other information - A UK BMD record showing Kate born Aston September 1902 (6d 378) - (that covers July/August/September 1902) The baptism record shows birth and baptism dates in August 1902. The immigration record gives her correct age. The marriage record quotes the correct parents. Due to privacy laws in Canada information is usually hard to come by but in your case you have been very fortunate that so much was found. Are you reading the links that we give ? The message board posts of a relative referring to Kathryn Ann Cockerill as his great-grandmother - although the thread was old (2003 if I remember correctly - try and post a message to see if you can make contact with the male poster)
Can't do any more to convince you this is the correct person. Ignore the age on the 1911 census -

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: groom on Tuesday 20 May 14 22:40 BST (UK)
Quote
Is it possible that he wanted to escalate her age so as to be able for her to be eligible to emigrate to Canada?????...This would make more sense to me, do you  agree ?

That thought crossed my mind. However as Sandra said he had not long lost his wife and perhaps he didn't really know how old the children were, he'd left that sort of thing to her.

I agree with Sandra, I'm 99.9% sure it is the correct Kate, there are no other records around that show another person it could be. The baptism is the real clue as it gives her DOB and both parent's names. If we always relied on the census being correct as to dates and places of birth, most of us wouldn't have a hope of tracing relatives.
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Tuesday 20 May 14 22:42 BST (UK)
Hi,

The age on the 1911 is wrong  - it is not unusual for an age to be incorrect on a census record. Ages, immigration dates, marriage dates, naturalization dates can all vary - the information is only as good as what the informant knows, it depends who gave the information to the enumerator. The father had lost his wife Kate when that 1911 census information was given, any one could have given information on the family, not necessarily the father.  Look at all the other information - A UK BMD record showing Kate born Aston September 1902 (6d 378) - (that covers July/August/September 1902) The baptism record shows birth and baptism dates in August 1902. The immigration record gives her correct age. The marriage record quotes the correct parents. Due to privacy laws in Canada information is usually hard to come by but in your case you have been very fortunate that so much was found. Are you reading the links that we give ? The message board posts of a relative referring to Kathryn Ann Cockerill as his great-grandmother - although the thread was old (2003 if I remember correctly - try and post a message to see if you can make contact with the male poster)
Can't do any more to convince you this is the correct person. Ignore the age on the 1911 census -

Sandra





Hi Sandra...

Just read your Posting...

All you and Jan have found  out seems to be OK... OK Hubby will forget the 1911 Census...Will go with what you have got ..

As you said, Alfred had lost his wife so he probably not in the right frame of mind.

So, ask another question....If I wanted to find out about Beatrice Cockerill in the Warwickshire lookup...Will I get the same problem..ie..1911 Census????
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: groom on Tuesday 20 May 14 22:57 BST (UK)
This is the only Beatrice I can see

Beatrice Cockerill
Jul-Aug-Sep 1910
Southam Warwickshire
Volume:   6d  Page:   731

But that would make her only a few months old in 1911

I think this is more likely to be her

Births Dec 1906   
Cockerill    Beatrice        Aston    6d   283

Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 May 14 23:00 BST (UK)
Personally I believe the error on the 1911 was because they added Alfred George Cockerill twice - if you ignore the second entry and move the others up - that would make Kate 8 years - Nellie 6 years and Beatrice 4 years - Beatrice would then agree with Cockerill    Beatrice        Aston    6d   283

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: groom on Tuesday 20 May 14 23:06 BST (UK)
That makes perfect sense, Sandra. His wife's death was on the March quarter 1911, so he may still have been very confused.
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 May 14 23:08 BST (UK)
Looking at Birmingham Baptisms - Nellie was born 27 June 1905 and baptised 16 July 1905
Father Alfred Cockerill and Mother mis-transcribed as Hato instead of Kate Cockerill.
That would match the age of 6 years and not 4 years on the 1911.

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 May 14 23:17 BST (UK)
A Beatrice M Cockerill married William F Green - March 1926 - Birmingham S - 6d 215

There is a death record for BeatriceMay Green Born 31 August 1906 who died December 1986 Birmingham - aged 80 - Volume 32 Page 177

About 5 birth records that could match Green - Cockerill - 1926/1928/1930/1931/1934

Sandra
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 16 October 14 00:48 BST (UK)
wow, what a great job you all did  on this thread...a real goldmine of info found for the poster

Just a reminder how off ages can be in the 1881 census Shresbury Shropshire, my Great Grandfather was 8 years out on his actual age...This would have been a "misguided brain to pen" thing for the enumerator...Maybe he was thinking of what he was going to have for lunch, as the actual numbers were not phonetically similar in any way. Perhaps with such a large group in the home, the numbers being shot at him were confusing   ;D  But I do thank goodness I already knew about him, and had an obit, as he was also listed as "boy" in the birth registration  ::) The obit, did, however have the wrong marriage year for him...hehe so there you go...
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: MattFM on Wednesday 20 May 15 02:28 BST (UK)
Just found this thread a year late sorry, Kathryn Anne Cockerill was the mother-in-law of the brother-in-law of my aunt.  I could put zoolane in touch with living relatives in Nova Scotia if she wanted to send me a PM.
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: JDWOOD on Wednesday 20 May 15 13:48 BST (UK)
Thanks for the link to this thread Matt.  Wow ..  12 years years since my post on the ancenstry.ca board.  :-[

Darryl Wood
New Glasgow, NS, Canada
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: MattFM on Wednesday 20 May 15 19:22 BST (UK)
OBITUARY NOTICE                                                                  FILE: OB1084.DOC
BK Number – 1636


The Evening News, Jun 5, 1991

Kathryn Anne MacKenzie

MacLellan’s Brook Road – Kathryn Anne MacKenzie, 89, of MacLellan’s Brook Road, formerly of 531 High Street, New Glasgow, died Monday evening at home. Born in Birmingham, England, she was a resident of MacLellan’s  Road for the past six months. She was a member of the Blair Presbyterian Church, Garden of Eden. She is survived by five sons, George Ross, Garden of Eden; Alfred Ross, Plymouth; Harold Ross, NewMarket, Ont; John Ross, Hamilton, Ont; Fred Ross, Stoney Creek, Ont’ five daughters, Mary, (Mrs. Howard Pace), Trenton; Margaret (Mrs. Lawrence Campbell), MacLellan’s Brook Road; Edith Ball, Ottawa; Hazel Clark, Elkhart, Indiana; Kay (Mrs. Charles Bigney), Glennewen, Sask; 43 grandchildren, 57 great-grandchildren, three great-great-grandchildren; a sister Nellie Osborne, Birmingham. She was predeceased by her first husband, John Malcolm Ross; her second husband, Kenneth MacKenzie; a daughter Carol Kuretski. Her remains will rest at the H. W. Angus Funeral Home. Internment will be in the Kenzieville Cemetery.
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Sunday 24 May 15 17:13 BST (UK)
Thanks for the link to this thread Matt.  Wow ..  12 years years since my post on the ancenstry.ca board.  :-[

Darryl Wood
New Glasgow, NS, Canada

Hi Daryl.

Just sent you a Friends Invite on my Hubbys Email address on Facebook.

I would like to see what Information you have on Kathryn Anne Ross who was my Hubbys Great Aunt.

Hope you can oblige

Kind Regards

Brenda
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: zoolane on Sunday 24 May 15 17:18 BST (UK)
OBITUARY NOTICE                                                                  FILE: OB1084.DOC
BK Number – 1636


The Evening News, Jun 5, 1991

Kathryn Anne MacKenzie

MacLellan’s Brook Road – Kathryn Anne MacKenzie, 89, of MacLellan’s Brook Road, formerly of 531 High Street, New Glasgow, died Monday evening at home. Born in Birmingham, England, she was a resident of MacLellan’s  Road for the past six months. She was a member of the Blair Presbyterian Church, Garden of Eden. She is survived by five sons, George Ross, Garden of Eden; Alfred Ross, Plymouth; Harold Ross, NewMarket, Ont; John Ross, Hamilton, Ont; Fred Ross, Stoney Creek, Ont’ five daughters, Mary, (Mrs. Howard Pace), Trenton; Margaret (Mrs. Lawrence Campbell), MacLellan’s Brook Road; Edith Ball, Ottawa; Hazel Clark, Elkhart, Indiana; Kay (Mrs. Charles Bigney), Glennewen, Sask; 43 grandchildren, 57 great-grandchildren, three great-great-grandchildren; a sister Nellie Osborne, Birmingham. She was predeceased by her first husband, John Malcolm Ross; her second husband, Kenneth MacKenzie; a daughter Carol Kuretski. Her remains will rest at the H. W. Angus Funeral Home. Internment will be in the Kenzieville Cemetery.

Hi MattFM

All this Information matches what my Hubby has on his Great Aunt and he wants me to thank you for your time and effort in finding it for him.

I will be Posting another Lookup Request shortly about Kathryns 2nd husband Kenneth MacKenzie.

See if you can oblige, once again.

Brenda
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 24 May 15 23:54 BST (UK)
Please just continue that query on this thread or it will cause confusion if you make another post about her...We spend so much time duplicating lookups because of repeated queries it really isn't fair.
Title: Re: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Spicer)b.1902..Where to find Emigration Details.
Post by: Catherine Ball on Monday 12 June 17 18:28 BST (UK)
Hi Brenda,  Kathryn MacKenzie (nee Cockerill) was my Grandmother, on my mother's side. My son just completed a school project on her life, as she was a British Home Child. So that is why I was doing a bit of searching myself on the internet! I was named after her. I can certainly fill you in on what happened to her.    Catherine B. (in Toronto, Ontario)
Title: Katherine McKenzie(Nee Cockerill)
Post by: J.J. on Monday 12 June 17 20:26 BST (UK)
To the poster, who got so much help from Rootschat ...
Please add this person to the Rootschat British Home Child database.
http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/dbsig/dbsig-add.php?dbsig_num=1#top_data

Catherine Ball, welcome to the site.   J.J.