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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: New Zealander on Friday 02 May 14 21:08 BST (UK)
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Can anyone assist please?
William H (Henry?) and Joseph Vincent are brothers. Both were born in Cornwall, William in 1844 and Joseph in 1859. They emigrated with their mother Mary Vincent nee Rowe and three other siblings to Dunedin, New Zealand on the SV Chile arriving at Port Chalmers on 11.12.1861. This arrival can be found in the Otago Witness newspaper on 14.12.1861.
Mary Vincent married Herman Anderson in Knox Church Dunedin on 25.08.1862 (I have the Marriage Cert) and likely moved to Lyttleton where she died and was interred on 26.10.1876. She had a daughter Evelina to Herman Anderson. These two were not traced further.
Three of the Vincent siblings can be traced but after arrival in New Zealand not a thing has been found for either William H or Joseph Vincent.
A William Henry Vincent can be found in Dunedin Electoral Rolls for 1880 and 1890 but there is nothing to link him to the Vincent family of 1861 or Joseph Vincent.
Would much appreciate any assistance or information to locate these two brothers William H and Joseph Vincent.
In anticipation a big thank you.
Alex G :)
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Hi Alex
Here is the 1861 census,Mary is still married but her husband William is not present
1861 Census
Piece: RG9/1583 Place: Redruth -Cornwall Enumeration District: 6
Civil Parish: Camborne Ecclesiastical Parish: St. Martins Camborne
Folio: 162 Page: 22 Schedule: 112
Address: Vyvyan Row
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born
VINCENT Mary Head M F 37 Formerly Boot Binder Cornwall - Penzance
VINCENT William H Son U M 17 Miner Cornwall - Camborne
VINCENT Peter Son U M 15 Miner Cornwall - Camborne
VINCENT Mary Jane Dau U F 10 Scholar Cornwall - Camborne
VINCENT Elizabeth Dau U F 8 Scholar Cornwall - Camborne
VINCENT Joseph Son U M 2 - Cornwall - Camborne
Cheers Janette
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Janette
Thank you for that. The 1861 Census was taken on the 7th April 8 months before the SV Chile arrived in Port Chalmers. The next record of the family including the brothers William H and Joseph Vincent is the report in the Otago Witness on 11.12.1861 then nothing.
Cheers
Alex G :)
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Kia Ora
I note that the mother was nee Rowe. A whole clan of Cornish Rowes' moved between NZ and Aus a lot. Most of them working in mining. Also Sth Africa. I wonder if you extend your search to the mining centres in NZ & Aus.
Most likely Mary had relatives amongst the mining community and during the depression in the 1880's work was hard to find.
Regards
Crowsfeet
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Never occured to me .. shall try a search on Trove and Victoria Prov and see what that turns up.
Thank you
Alex G
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This could be Joseph's death
1936/14987 Vincent Joseph 77Y
Cheers Janette
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Janette
A good match I think. The trick now to find the burial or gravesite ;D
Many thanks
Alex G :)
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Hi Alex,
I did a soundex search of the NZSG Burial Locator v.2 but couldn't find a match for either individual.
Spades
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Spades
Yes have tried that as well. Also had a look at Archives NZ but nothing there for at least for Joseph. Guess a death printout would provide an answer.
Alex
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Before you do that, does someone have the District Key book covering deaths for 1936?
This will provide the district in which his death was registered.
Spades
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Spades
Never heard of that Book previously.
Also occurred to me that Ancestry.Com and a search of NZ Electoral Rolls might turn something up as well for Joseph Vincent in the 1930's.. Unfortunately I don't have that and will have to wait until next week when I can get into the Library.
Do have a feeling that the death record Janette located for 1936 is my Joseph Vincent.
Alex G ;D
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When you say you have checked the electoral rolls did you use the online Otago Nominal Index for a look at early electoral rolls, and sometimes there are other records as well there.
Regards
Crowsfeet
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Hi Alex,
The NZ Society of Genealogists published a set of District Key books for birth and deaths to allow the matching of a folio number with the district where the event was registered.
It is not possible to do this with marriages - with few exceptions these were assigned randomly after the event.
As an aside, do you include an Elijah VINCENT and wife Mary TURNBULL in your family tree? Their son Robert was born in Kumara, Westland about 1881, although I can't find a birth record for him.
Spades
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In 1935 there were 3 Joseph Vincent's on the ER
Joseph Vincent 1935 Raglan Waikato
Joseph Vincent 1935 Temuka Canterbury
Joseph Vincent 1935 Westland West Coast
Cheers Janette
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In 1938 there are 2
Joseph Vincent 1938 Temuka Canterbury
Joseph Vincent 1938 Raglan Waikato
Cheers Janette
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A Joseph VINCENT died in 1936 aged 77 years.
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This could be Joseph's death
1936/14987 Vincent Joseph 77Y
Cheers Janette
Pay attention Spades :P :P
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Greetings All
Have tried the Timaru / Temuka Cemetery search and no Joseph Vincent. Shall have a look at the Raglan Cemetery and see what there might be.
Several branches of the family went over to the West Coast and multiplied big time. One alone, Peter Vincent had 15 children.
I have not searched them all thoroughly yet.
There is a book "From County Cork to the Colonies" by Toni Grafton and Carol Todd (of Invercargill) that explores the Vincent and other families extensively. Very expensive at $220.00 but is available in some libraries for research / archive purposes only .. not a loan item.
I shall check " do you include an Elijah VINCENT and wife Mary TURNBULL in your family tree? Their son Robert was born in Kumara, Westland about 1881, although I can't find a birth record for him' for you next week on my next visit to the Invercargill Library.
Much appreciate your help.
Alex G ;D
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The Hocken library holds the passenger list for the Chile,it may have some more info
Cheers Janette
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Sticking my little paw in here ;D
Elijah VINCENT - he wouldn't have a middle name would he? There is an Elijah T Vincent on the Industrial School Nominal Rolls:
Name : VINCENT Elijah T
Admission Date : 7 Jul 1893
School : Caversham - Boys
As at date : 1893
Place of Commital : Kumara
Religion : Anglican
Age @ 1st Jan : 12 yrs
Three entries on this chappie at Archives.
Cheers
KHP
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A sweeping bow of apology to Janette. :-[
KHP, I don't want to hijack Alex's topic but I suspect your 'Elijah T VINCENT' is a son of 'my' Elijah.
Best to wait to see if there's any connection with Alex's family.
Spades
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KHP, I don't want to hijack Alex's topic but I suspect your 'Elijah T VINCENT' is a son of 'my' Elijah.
Spades
No, he isn't mine, but I know what you mean ;D
Cheers
KHP
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:P
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:P
Now where is the "report to moderator" button ;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D
If he was mine, and if a connection to Alex, then the three of us would have been related. ;D
Cheers
KHP
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This is becoming all to confusing ;D
Shall try and give you an answer about Elijah next time I am in the library.
I still have to find William H and Joseph Vincent :(
Alex G
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I'd only be connected by distant marriage! :o
Alex, I wonder if this is your topic on Rootsweb, but just in case...
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NEW-ZEALAND/2013-08/1377818104
And could they have hopped the ditch to Australia?
Spades
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Reading your first post leads me to wonder whether the boys might have adopted the surname of their step-father, Herman ANDERSON?
They were aged only about seven and two years respectively. Their mother Mary might have found it easier.
Spades
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Spades,I think they were older,William was born in 1844 and Joseph in 1859 so they were 18 and 3 ,Joseph may have taken the Anderson name but William was an adult
Cheers Janette
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There are others researching William H Vincent @ Ancestry and Mundia.
Cheers
KHP
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Janette
I agree with yourself.
William was old enough to make his own way in the world but it would be very likely that Joseph would have remained with his mother and taken the name of his step father Herman Anderson. This possibility has never been considered previously.
Herman Anderson and his wife Mary Vincent had a daughter Evelina on the 18.08.1868 if I am correct. Mary Anderson nee Vincent died and was interred at Lyttleton on 26.10.1876. Herman Anderson, daughter Evelina or the two Vincent brothers, William H and Joseph have been traced beyond this point.
This is really getting complicated now
The Christchurch / Lyttleton area would be a start point ??
I do not know much about Mundia and the Rootsweb topic is nothing to do with myself .. in fact I knew nothing about it previously.
Alex G
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Greetings All
Thank you for your continuing interest for William H Vincent and his brother Joseph Vincent. As it stands at the moment this is what I have on the missing two brothers.
The mother of these two brothers was Mary Vincent nee Rowe. She re-married Herman Anderson in Dunedin in 1862. I have Mary's death printout when she died on 26.10.1876 and was interred in Lyttleton.
At the time of death according to the Death record Mary was survived by her three sons who would be William H, Peter and Joseph and one daughter Elizabeth Sullivan nee Vincent, my great great grand mother. A 2nd daughter Mary Jane Baker nee Vincent died earlier in 1876 likely as a result of the effects of child birth. Peter Vincent died in Greymouth in 1927.
I have a William Henry Vincent on the Dunedin Electoral Rolls for 1880 and 1890 but nothing thereafter including burials in Dunedin Cemeteries. Remembering this is where the Vincent family first landed upon emigration to New Zealand on the SV Chile in 1861. For William H Vincent I am no further ahead.
For Joseph Vincent I have a death on BDM in 1936 aged 77 years. This matches my Joseph Vincent's date of birth in 1859. In the Westland Electoral Roll for 1935 I have a Joseph Vincent in a Old Peoples Home in Greymouth. This person doesn’t appear in the following 1938 Electoral Roll. Further there are a good number of the Vincent family on the West Coast and related to Joseph .. nephews, cousins etc. The down side ... there is no burial / interment recorded for that name when a cemetery search is done online with the Westland District Council. Will contact the Grey District Council and see what they have in their cemetery records this morning.
Have looked at Archives NZ, the NZSG Burial Locator and NZSG Kiwi Index all with a nil result. Papers Past I am a little less certain about and will need to re-visit there again at least for William H Vincent.
I firmly believe that the death for Joseph Vincent in 1936 is the person I am seeking. On balance I think a death printout might just be required to resolve the issue if there is no burial record with the Grey District Council.
Alex G ;D
P.S. Grey District Council confirm that Joseph Vincent is interred in the Karoro
Cemetery, Greymouth but the records provide no reference to other family or provide a
connection to my Vincent family. A death printout has been ordered.
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Hello Alex,
I'm just new to the forum and I noticed your post.
I have a relative through marriage with the surname Vincent living in NZ. He is very interested in the family history and naturally with the same surname you may well be related. Is there some way of him contacting you as I don't know if he is online with this site? Not sure how this would work.
Cheers
Lynda
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Lynda
I shall PM you my e mail address. Not allowed to post on the forum. You cannot reply to me by PM unless you at least 3 posts first.
Just e mail me after you receive the PM
Alex G
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Hi Lynda,even a smilie face will do as a post
Here is a link to explain the PM's
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Cheers Janette
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Thanks Janette :) :)
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Greetings all
I now have Joseph Vincent. He died on 23.06.1936 and was interred in the Karoro Cemetery in Greymouth. He had no living issue.
This just now leaves William H Vincent. Would be a shame if I couldn't trace the last of the family to emigrate to New Zealand in 1861.
Alex G ;D
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Congratulations Alex. ;D
Spades
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Hi Alex,
There is a probate dated 1919 for a Henry William VINCENT, a farmer of Christchurch.
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22394378
According to BDM online he was 78, e.g. born c'1841.
And a William VINCENT, who died in 1918 aged 71, e.g. born c'1847.
Spades
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Hi Spades
A sunny afternoon in Invercargill ;D
Yes I have certainly considered both these Vincent 's. I shall have another look at the Burial Locator and NZSG Index. Death Notices from local newspapers might be a good option or start.
Cheers
Alex G
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Morning Alex.......PM on its way to you.
Mike.
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Gidday Mike
Thank you
Cheers
Alex G
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Hello Alex,
Re reference given by Spades for a will at ChCh Archives for Henry William VINCENT dated 1919
This man was born at Teignmouth, Devonshire.
If you would like to read further, I can give you detailed instructions.
Regards
Jean
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Hello Jean
Thank you and much appreciated. However my man was born in Camborne, Cornwall in 1844.
Alex G
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Greetings All
It does look like that my William Vincent has disappeared into the sunset never to be seen again with repeated searches have produced nothing in New Zealand.
This raises the possibility that perhaps that he left New Zealand .. moving to Australia might be a possibility.
Just thinking "outside the square" a little now ???
Alex G ;D
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Over time I have become "lost" with this Vincent inquiry.
Joseph Vincent has been identified and located. He is interred in the Karoro Cemetery, Greymouth. Likewise his wife Mary (they separted in 1886) who subsequently married twice more and appears likely interred in the Bromley Cemetery, Christchurch. Currently I am waiting for a Death Printout to confirm.
This then leaves William H Vincent.
As suggested in an earlier post thread I spent some time on the Australian "Trove" site with out a result.
He has to be some where and I am just devoid of answers right now :(
Alex G :(
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From information posted on another board I found a William Vincent interred in the Southern Cemetery in Dunedin.
I received the Death Printout today and can confirm that I have the correct William Henry Vincent that I have been searching for some considerable time.
He was born on 21.07.1844 and died on 18.05.1899 aged 55 years. The Death record and the Burial record in the Southern Cemetery in Dunedin are incorrect. Both his age his record as 58 years.
However the Death Printout correctly records his parents as William Vincent and Mary Vincent nee Rowe and his place of birth in Cornwall, England. His length of time in New Zealand .. 38 years .. is correct on both the Death and Burial record.
Thank you everyone for your assistance and help.
Alex G ;D
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Good one Alex .... glad you can now add that leaf to the twig. :D
Cheers
KHP
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I wondered if the death was some sort paupers grave / burial?
The address given for William Vincent was Walker Street now Carroll Street near central Dunedin. A play on Google shows that at the time of his death Walker Street was a very "poor area" of the city.
The informant on Death Cert for William Vincent was the funeral director Hugh Gourley. It would be likely that he wouldn't know the deceased and took a "stab" at his age, hence the error.
I think that at best William Vincent died a lonely death and that no one really knew him. I am unaware of any other Vincent family in Dunedin at that time. They were all further north in Waimate, Christchurch and on the West Coast.
There is also one other burial in the plot a John Craik in 1886. Craik ex Christchurch was from Dumfries in Scotland and had been in New Zealand about 25 years. I have no idea what the Craik connection might be with the Vincent family.
There is no headstone on the grave.
I will be visiting Cornwall next August and will be donating the Vincent family record to the appropriate Cornwall Archives so nice to get something correct.
My thoughts for what they are worth.
Alex G ;D
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It is nice that he has been found and recognised after such a long time :)
Cheers Janette
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For those following this thread the NZ Police Gazette is now available in digital form via the 'Papers Past' website. There you will find several entries about Joseph Vincent regarding the abandoning of his children and the years that the court chased him for contributions. At least 3 of his children ended up in the Industrial School System when Mary spent a prolonged time in hospital and mother and neighbours were unable to provide. He did several stints in gaol for failure to provide, throughout the 1880's but mostly skipped away including hiding out on Stewart Island. This may explain why one of the posts here says he has no issue. Not interest anyway. His brother Peter was living in Woodlands Invercargill at this time and William was living at Mabel Bush also in Southland. I can supply some links to this. Throughout the posts here Joseph's age varies considerably. According to the Police records it would seem he would have been asked for his age and it varies between 1849 and and 1853. So his birth and age at death should not be treated as gospel. I am no relation but doing research on the children who went through the Industrial School system. At least Joseph Jr, James and Elizabeth Mary (Married name Lukey) were in the system. Coincidentally my ex-husband is related to this family through Meri Harper. The book that is mentioned although very useful has lots of errors, in particular with the Vincent family and some members of the Vincent side have endeavoured to have corrections made and met with less than polite resistance.
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I have just found this thread and followed with great interest. My Grandmother was Alice Vincent/Benbow/Hopkinson. Mary Vincent (Joseph Vincent's wife) was the mother of Alice as a result of a liaison? with a Daniel Low. I have very little information on Mary and Daniel (and Joseph for that matter), as children we were always led to believe that Alice's parents died in a car accident? I would be very keen to know more of Mary and Joseph and there children. Thank you 9 March 2023