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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: Sunsetbay4me on Friday 09 May 14 14:28 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any information about the Drysdales on Islay. There was Dugald Drysdale mentioned in the 1861 census. further research show that there was a brother Neil and a sister Catherine. I would like to know if possible where they were born and died. I am 90% sure that Dugald is my Great Grandfather. I would also like to find out who his parents were and what happened to them. Thanks
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Hi
Welcome to Roots Chat! If I have located the Dugald Drysdale to whom you refer in the 1861 census it shows him age 7 and living with his grandparents. His age shows that he was born before statutory registration commenced in Scotland in 1855. However sister Catherine is shown to be aged 4. You should therefore be able to locate her birth on Scotland's People. This would give the name of her parents and enable you to locate them in census records and probably in statutory death records and thus take your search further. Scotland's People is a credits only site. (I have looked on Family Search for baptisms for Dugald and Catherine but did not find any results. Dugald is also recorded in the 1871 census as a servant. There is a possible census entry for him in the 1881 English census showing him in the Navy but the year of birth is slightly out).
Good luck with your search.
William
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Hi
Further to my previous post it is possible that Dugald and Catherine were illegitimate. Noting that the grandparents surname in the 1861 census is Ferguson I found the following births on Family Search.
Catherine Ferguson b 31 March 1857 Kilchoman, Argyll, Scotland Mother Ann Ferguson.
Dugald Ferguson b 5 June 1853 Kilchoman, Argyll, Scotland Mother Ann Ferguson.
The 1841 census for grandfather James Ferguson does show an Ann Ferguson age 13 in the household.
Cheers
William
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Looks like the mother's name matches. I found the following info from my Great Grandfathers Death Details.
Australia Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Dugald Drysdale
Death Date: 1931
Death Place: New South Wales
Father's Name: James
Mother's name: Ann
Registration Year: 1931
Registration Place: Bowraville, New South Wales
Registration Number: 5266
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Now it seems that I need to find James Drysdale and how he came to meet Ann Ferguson. He is a real mystery man.
If any one has any idea where I might find him, I would love to hear from you.
Thanks,
Allan
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Allan, just adding link to other post to keep it all together ;) www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=686947.0
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Your Dugald's father James Drysdale, may be the James Drysdale born 3 Nov 1837 to William Drysdale and Lillias Boyle, in Dumbarton, Dunbartonshire, Scotland. James' next brother was named Islay or Ilay Ferrier Drysdale, born 27 Jul 1840. This Christian name seems significant for your search. Another brother was Romeo Drysdale, born 8 Mar 1831. And yet another was born Dugald McLachlan Drysdale on 2 Sep 1842.
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I'm afraid that Islay Ferrier Drysdale isn't named after the island. The name comes from General Islay Ferrier. James Drysdale's grandfather, Romeo Drysdale, served under him at Dumbarton castle and named one of his sons after him. The name was a family name for several generations into the present day. The James Drysdale born in 1837 may not be the James you are looking for but I wouldn't discount him. Having a brother Dugald may point to a connection but the Islay name doen't.
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I have always wondered where the name came from! One of the Islay Ferrier Drysdale's married my distant cousin Mary Lindsay Murray in 1865. The son of William Drysdale and Lillias Boyle! They had five children, but none seem to have married. I was intrigued by the name and have looked at the family and know about Romeo at Dumbarton Castle, but did not know about General Islay Ferrier. Thanks for the heads up!
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The Dumbarton Romeo is my Great Great Great Grandfather. Born in Paisley in 1766, died in Dumbarton in 1849. That is the furthest back I have got in my Drysdale line. I either need to check church records in Paisley for his birth or baptism, or church records in Kendal for his marriage to try and get more information. Haven't been able to get further online. My dad had uncles called Romeo and Islay Ferrier and at least one cousin called Islay Ferrier. I've added Mary Lindsay Murray to my tree, thanks for the info. I'm descended from William born in 1808. For any other Drysdales following this line https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3290612. Though Romeo's wife was Margaret Hargroves.
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It was so confusing when I was looking for what happened to Mary Lindsay Murray. Islay Ferrier Drysdale was spelt in so many different ways and Margaret Hargroves was too! Mary and Islay were married on 6 July 1865 in Bonhill. His brother Dougal was a witness! I ended up finding an Internet Site devoted to your Romeo Drysdale of Dumbarton Castle which was very interesting! I descend from Mary Lindsay Murray's grandparents, James Murray and Mary Lindsay. The Murrays seem to have all come from around Bonhill and they were all in the shoe making business. Islay Ferrier Drysdale was an iron monger born in 1840 to William Drysdale and Lilias Boyle.
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The different spellings can make it difficult. :-\ I can't even remember why I settled on Hargroves. So many variations. Hardgrave, Hargrieve, Hargreave, with/without the s or d. Names like Romeo and Islay Ferrier made looking for Drysdales so much easier. ;D Plus I already knew the connection with Dumbarton Castle. I haven't really looked into the different branches but add them on if I get the information.
Again, if anybody looking at this Drysdale tree wants information, then message me. It's a few years since I really looked and unfortunately my old computer that had source information and stuff has died on me. I still have the tree though and can give you what is on that.
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Hi PandaBud - That Romeo was my 4X (I think!) Great Grandfather, via his son Robert. Wish I knew where the Romeo came from, but that is great information about Islay Ferrier. I never knew that. I agree that this branch has been easier to research than some others in my tree with all these unusual names - Romeo and Islay Ferrier!
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Hi Helen. Looks like we are cousins several times removed then. I'm descended via Robert's brother William.
Don't know where or when the Romeo name started. I know Romeo had a son, also Romeo, born in London in 1805. I have his baptism as being at the Scots Church in Woolwich. There was another Romeo Drysdale baptised at this church in a different year. Now that could be a clerical error, or a second baptism, or our Romeo being a bit of a lad. Or it could be that the Romeo name was being used in other branches of the family and goes back further. I might have to look at that again, if I can remember where I got the info from.
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There was a family named Romeo in the Garngad, Glasgow. ;D
Skoosh.
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Well hello, distant cousin! There's a lot to figure out with our Romeo! His army service record says he was born in Paisley, but I've also found a Romeo Drysdale born at the same time in London. Coincidence via a different family, or did someone mis-remember for the service record? I also saw the 1794 marriage to Margaret, but can't find any surviving children until the 1805 Romeo. Wonder if they were overseas with the army??? It seems like the more I find, the more questions I have!
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Hello, my name is " P-J". Major-General Ilay ( he never spelt it with an 's'! ) Ferrier was my great-gt.-gt.-gt.-Grandfather, and was Lieutenant-Governor of Dumbarton Castle from 1796 until his death in 1824. Romeo Drysdale was his Master Gunner, and the two men became friends. When Ilay drew up the final version of his Will, Romeo was his witness.
When, in 1836, it was decided that Dumbarton Castle no longer needed a Governor, Romeo Drysdale remained in nominal charge, in effect as custodian, and would conduct visitors round the Castle and Rock, telling them the history and stories of his own period of service there. When he died, at his home in Strathleven Place, Dumbarton, on 27th August 1849, The Greenock Advertiser ( 4th Sept. 1849 ) and The Stirling Observer ( ( 6th Sept. 1849 ) carried this notice:
" At Strathleven Place, Dumbarton, on the 27th ult., Mr. Romeo Drysdale, aged 83 years, late master-gunner ( Royal Artillery ), for 38 years in Dumbarton Castle, and 60 years in Her Majesty's Service ".
I'm sure you know that his & Margaret's son William had a Memorial Stone erected in the Riverside Kirkyard, Dumbarton ( Stone no. NS 3975 ). It's badly weathered but what remains of the inscription runs:
"Erected by William Drysdale, plumber, to commemorate his father, Romeo Drysdale who died 2[?7th August 1849 aged 84]: Margaret Ha[?rgrove] his mother, d. 30th April 1848, aged 73: Margaret, his sister, who died 16th June 1848, aged 29: and Islay, his brother, who died 14th July, 1851, aged 35."
There's a notice in " China Who's Who " 1922 re. William Drysdale, his wife Christina Watt and their son Islay Ferrier Drysdale [who was b. 12th Feb. 1867, Glasgow, and m. Mary Young.
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Welcome to Rootschat P-J.
Skoosh.
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Hello P-J and thanks for your info. A couple of bits there that I didn't know or was unsure about. My father and uncle used to tell me that Romeo was the last governor of Dumbarton Castle but I was always a bit dubious about that. Custodian fits better. I believe there may still be a Drysdale branch in Australia descended from the Islay Ferrier that went to China. I came across what would have been my second cousin on another forum, unfortunately a couple of years after she had died. There is a company called Islay Ferrier Drysdale in Australia which must have some connection.
HelenLa, I have no idea why there is such a gap between Romeo's marriage and the first child. I hadn't thought about it before but it is interesting. I have a copy of his army discharge papers and he didn't serve abroad. I thought Margaret Hargroves was only 16 when they married but that doesn't tie in with a death at 73. I may need to try and find my original sources and re-check. If you need info for your own tree, Margaret's parents were Richard Hargroves 1752-1792 and Mary Hodgson. That's as far back as I got.
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Oh dear! Now that I have read P-J's message, I will have to go back and change my Islays to Ilay! Obviously Romeo had a great respect for P-J's ancestor and Romeo himself sounds like a good and honourable man. As Romeo had 5 sons, I imagine they all named a son Romeo, and another son was probably named Islay or Ilay. Remember Scottish naming patterns were followed closely in the 1800s. Don't get me started on my ancestors on the Island of Skye!!! My cousin Mary Lindsay Murray who married Ilay Ferrier Drysdale, named one of her daughters Lillias Boyle Drysdale after Ilay's mother, and another was named Helen McIntyre Drysdale, after her mother!!! I still think Romeo's wife would have been Hargreaves, not Hargrove. Hargrove sounds made up to me! Clerks in those days were barely literate. Perhaps a son named a daughter after Margaret?
This could prove it one way or the other? I hadn't noticed the years between Romeo's marriage and the first child's birth before! Was he away at war? Was he overseas? Did he have to leave his new wife at home? As I am in Australia, I will have to look at the Company mentioned above. I did like the name ISLAY. What a pity. Perhaps if someone traces the later Ilays or Islays back, they will find the connection to the first one? Cheers!
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Further to my message, it occurred to me to ask why Romeo Drysdale married Margaret Hargroves in Kendal, Westmoreland, England? I found several Margaret Hargroves born at the right time in Kendal, Westmoreland, England!!! (Often the bride is married in her home town!!!) Then I found another Romeo Drysdale, born and baptised to Romeo and Margaret in Woolwich, Kent, England, on 30 Apr 1805. Was Woolwich, Kent, England, a military establishment? Then I found a ROMEI DRYSDALE born and baptised at Founders Hall Lothbury Scots Church in London, England, on 1 Oct 1765! Twin brothers, Robert and John, were baptised on 11 Apr 1762. So this may be your Romeo, born to another military man without a first name? I also found several other Romeo and Islay Drysdales, one born in China and a POW in Japan, then migrated to Hawaii, and others who migrated to mainland USA. All on Family Search!!! I will leave it up to the descendants to find out more! Di
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Hello,
Romeo Drysdale is also my four times great grandfather, through his first son, Romeo Drysdale, and his daughter Elizabeth Drysdale. His son, Romeo, died quite young, in Liverpool, and along with his brother, Richard Drysdale, was a joiner there. I wonder why they went to Liverpool? I too am curious about where the name Romeo comes from, and the parentage of Romeo of Dumbarton Castle, as I have not got further back. I did find a copy of his marriage certificate to Margaret Hargroves in Kendal (on familysearch) where her father is listed as John Hargroves, and I did find a 'Romei Drysdale' baptised in London to unnamed parents in 1865, but that is it. It would also be interesting to learn more about his army career.
Thanks for sharing this interesting information here.
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Hi, I have a Jarvis Drysdale (b. ~1810 d.1847) who is listed as the eldest son of Romeo Drysdale, Dumbarton in his death notice. does anyone know how this ties in to the family?
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Interesting stuff. Not been on for a while. Will reply to what I can.
Jarvis Drysdale, hadn't heard of Jarvis. I have a John Duncan Drysdale born in 1810. Third son after Romeo (1805) and William (1808). Jarvis/John could be the same person.
I did know there was branch that went to Liverpool and Cheshire but I have to admit that I haven't looked into this in detail. Via Ayrshire, or am I mixing up brothers? Interesting that you have John Hargroves as Margaret's father. I don't remember where I got Richard from. It wasn't the marriage certificate, so I suspect that you're correct. Any other information on the certificate?
I have seen two Romeo Drysdales baptised in the Scots Church in Woolwich in London. Woolwich was the home to the Royal Artillery which is where I would expect Romeo to get his training. The two baptisms weren't far apart in date. I never investigated them both. It could be another family, it could be Romeo having another woman, it could be a mistake with the records, it could be the first one died?
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3290612
The above is the web page for the Drysdale Memorial in Dumbarton. I have visited it and it is in a very poor condition but we're lucky it survived at all.
I haven't done any family tracing for quite a few years. The details I have for Master Gunner Romeo Drysdale are, born in Paisley, Renfrewshire in 1766. Died in Dumbarton in 1849. He was discharged from the Royal Artillery in 1844, aged 78, after 60 years service. I did have his address in Dumbarton but can't find it at present. It's shops and car parking now. He was listed as a weaver when he joined the army in Lanark. Both Paisley and Lanark have weaving histories. I have done an online search through various Paisley church records without success. Some searching in Lanark but again with no success. Paisley does have a very good heritage centre with good records and at some point I will visit it and see if they can find something I've missed.
I'm happy to pass on any info I have or can remember but a lot of the details were on my old computer which died on me a while back. If anybody finds anything interesting, please post it. Always good to find something new.
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From the Glasgow Courier 4 September 1847
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Hi janceyb87
What else do you have on Jarvis Drysdale? Did he marry and have children?
Have you found him on the 1841 census?
Added: Is this his marriage?
JARVIS DRYSDALE
and
ANN DONELLY
22/10/1829
644 / 1410 / 99
Glasgow
Also showing in the Roman Catholic Parish registers:
JARVIS DRYSDALE
and
ANN DONELLY
23/10/1829
Glasgow, St Andrew's
The image from the RC parish marriage register states that Jarvis was born in Greenock and Ann was originally from Armagh (town). Richard Drysdale was one of the witnesses.
Monica
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With a son called Romeo, is this Ann (Donnelly) with children in 1841? www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a14ef4ef4040b9d6ef6eac3/romeo-drysdale-1841-lanarkshire-glasgow-1834-?locale=en
Wonder where Jarvis was. Trying to get a check on his birth year.
I can only see one baptism, son Romeo in 1835. This entry shows in the Roman Catholic parish register on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
ROMEO DRYSDALE
Parents JERVIS DRYSDALE / ANN DONELLY
2/10/1835
9/10/1835
Glasgow, St Andrew's
Monica
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So, Anne Donnelly Drysdale widowed in 1848. I think this is her in 1851. A younger daughter Margaret is showing with her. Earlier born Margaret died and name reused?
1851 census index entry here www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a150a13f4040b9d6e14b721/ann-drysdale-1851-lanarkshire-glasgow-1813-?locale=en
There is a correction on the Ancestry transcript for this entry to indicate that Hay F Drysdale should read Illay Ferrier Drysdale.
This looks like Mary Drysdale's death entry:
Mary DRYSDALE
Age 74
Mother's maiden name HARGREAVES
1868
644 / 1 / 1078
Glasgow Central District
Monica
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That is interesting. I only have a John Duncan, child of Romeo Drysdale, b. 1810, on my tree, so I wonder, too, if this is the same person - I couldn't find any records as an adult for John Duncan.
By the way, I found this mention of Romeo Drysdale recently in an old textbook:
https://randomscottishhistory.com/2018/05/15/dumbarton-castle-pp-73-86/
"Several portions of the rock are strongly magnetic, and affect the needle of a compass, brought near it, very considerably, causing it to vary much from its true pole. This circumstance is noticed by the historian Buchanan.1 “In the upper part of the Castle,” he observes, “is a piece of rock of the nature of a loadstone, but so closely connected and fastened to the main rock, that no manner of joining appears.” Professor Anderson, of the University of Glasgow, made repeated experiments on the magnetism of the rock, and the direction of its poles. On the south side, and near the top of the western rock, a large bare crag was pointed out to us, by Mr. Romeo Drysdale, the master gunner of the Castle, who has made various experiments upon it, and found it to be highly magnetic. This, from its situation, is in all probability, the rock alluded to by Buchanan. Mr. Drysdale says its influence has even been felt on the opposite shore of the Clyde."
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Jarvis was called many different names in the records i found including Gervase, Larase, James, Jennins, Jervis and Charles. He had 9 Children, Anne b. 1830, Mary Jane b.1832, Margaret b. 1833, Jarvis b.1834, Romeo b.1835, Caroline Catherine b. 1837, Margaret Jane b.1840, Ann b.1842 (my direct descendant) and Julie b. 1844. all baptised in St Andrew, Glasgow.
I had the 1841 census for ann and i have seen the 1851 one but wasnt sure until now if it was related and i only have one of their marriage records. the less detailed one.
1810 was just my rough estimate given the year they were married. it could be he was born much earlier.
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I have found her death in 1886 in Hutchesontown which states her parents were Terence Donelly and Catherine Nugent.
DRYSDALE
ANN
62
NUGENT
F
1886
644 / 11 / 345
HUTCHESONTOWN
it claims she was 62 which would make her born in 1818, but when i looked in Armagh for children of Terence and Catherine, Ann was born in 1802. Jarvis could be of a similar age?
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Now it seems that I need to find James Drysdale and how he came to meet Ann Ferguson. He is a real mystery man.
If any one has any idea where I might find him, I would love to hear from you.
Thanks,
Allan
Going back to Sunsetbay4me's original posts, can I suggest that he tries checking out this individual - 'James Drysdale' (born 1824) who was an Irish Seaman onboard a vessel which travelled between Ireland (Portavogie) & Scotland (Islay? Ayr). He was onboard the vessel Jas. Cathcart during the Scottish 1841 census (pdf attached). His details have also been entered up on the Familysearch website with ID LDPT-XB7.
Regards