RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: AnnieP on Saturday 17 May 14 18:57 BST (UK)
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After her husband Samuel Moth died in 1837 one of my ancestors Ann Moth from Cowes in the Isle of Wight had a number of children with man by the name of Geert Hindricks Noorman or George Henry on some of the children's birth & marriage certificates. I've been unable to find a marriage but he appeared on the 1841 census aged 49 years and living with the family. He was a North Sea and Baltic pilot. I wondered if anyone knew of an online site for BMD's for Holland assuming of course that it is a Dutch name? I also wondered if there was a register for North Sea pilots anywhere?
I'm hoping someone out there can help.
AnnieP
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I wonder whether he is the Geert Hendriks Noorman named as father of Dirkje Noorman, baptised in Amsterdam on 16 Nov 1819? Mother Dirkje Janssen Santjer.
See www.familysearch.org which has this among its Dutch records.
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WieWasWie is one:
https://www.wiewaswie.nl/
It has some more Noorman/Santjer records, for example, they had a daughter,
Aaltje Noorman m. in 1828 aged 24 listed as b. Emden (Hannover)
father koopvaardijkapitein (master mariner)
and a son d. 1833, Hinderk Noorman aged 27, also listed as b. Emden.
Coverage is not 100% complete, though.
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Ah, that is a good site, jorose.
I see that Aaltje's husband Willem Smit gave his mother's name as Eeke Hendriks Noorman. A relative of Geert's, perhaps?
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Geert's age of 49 in 1841 (b abt 1792) must of course have been understated if he had fathered Aaltje in c1804 and Hinderk in c1806.
I can't see a death for him in Isle of Wight records.
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Thanks so much for this info. I'd forgotten all about Family Search but I'll try the 'wiewaswie' site as well. I'm assuming that he is Dutch from what you've both said. On one of the children's marriage certificate in 1870 it says he is deceased but I can't find it in the death index and as you say it definitely wasn't on the Isle of Wight. Perhaps he returned to his family in Holland. Do you know if the National Archives has a list of Master Mariners or Pilots from abroad?
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Hi,
Geo Henry Noorman (pilot) arrived London aboard the "John Bull" on 09/04/1847 from Hamburg, Germany. Country of origin/native of Prussia.
Geo Heinrich Noorman (pilot) arrived London aboard the "Wilberforce" on 22/02/1848 from Cuxhaven, Germany. Country of origin/native of Hanover, Germany.
Sharon
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At least some of the older children were born Emden which is in Germany (Hanover) but not that far away - presumably as a master mariner he could have been moving around various seaports so wasn't necessarily born Emden.
It's possible that Geert husband to Dirkje Janssen Santjer was also father to Geert/George b. ~1792 (possibly born to a first wife if Dirkje was till having kids in 1819), although age on the 1841 census is notoriously inaccurate and he could have knocked off a few years when he went to the UK.
familysearch has some non-named indexed civil records as well.
Amsterdam (tafels - indexes)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0za7/
shows Dirkje b. 18 Nov 1819
Here's the original (bottom left)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0za9/
Her father signs - don't suppose you have anything with his signature on it to compare?
It would be worth working through the Amsterdam death indexes to see if you can find out what happened to Dirkje Janssen Santjer and any other kids they had.
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I'm always truly amazed at the amount of information everyone is able to find, thank you so much. Unfortunately I don't have any example of his handwriting so won't be able to actually prove that this is the same man. He seems to be a very profligate character, producing all these children, as he had five possibly six with Ann Moth. I will work through the death records as you advise to see if I can find his death.
Thanks once again.
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Quick link to Aaltje's marriage:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0zae/
It appears that a daughter b. 1827 was recognised at the time of the marriage. It doesn't look like her father was a witness - at sea?
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Hello AnnieP,
the town and state archives in the Netherlands have excellent online databases, the search is much better than in familysearch. - And they have more than BMD.
Is he Dutch? Is he German?
He might be Frisian or Nederduits!
Good luck
Rudolf
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Hi AnnieP
I, too, am a descendant of Geert Henriks Noorman and Ann Moth via their son Henry. From the British Newspaper Archives site I learnt that Geert's ship the Willem Frederik, of which he was the master, sought refuge in Cowes in October 1821 after being damaged in a storm whilst carrying a cargo of timber from Riga in Latvia to Toulon in France. It appears that he was then obliged to remain on the Isle of Wight whilst arranging the sale of his cargo and the fate of his damaged vessel. Subsequently, he seems to have put down roots (of sorts) in Cowes, whilst continuing with his merchant career. Having recently discovered this thread I wondered whether you had managed to find out any more information on Geert?
Kind regards
SteveJD
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Hi Steve, I haven't touched my Moth tree for ages so am not really up to date. If as you say he was in Cowes from 1821 it seems to be a very long time before he met Ann Moth as their first son Joseph Noorman wasn't born until 1838. I've looked briefly but can find no birth registration for him. I see Geert stayed around for about 7 years at least as there were more children. You've got me interested again but I'm in the middle of writing a family history for a friend hence the lapse in the Moth history.
Unfortunately I've not done much research into this couple as it's not my direct line but I'd be interested if you can find anything else.
AnnieP
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Hi Annie
Thanks for your reply. Like you, it has been some years since I originally researched the Moth line of my family, and, unfortunately, I seem to have mislaid my primary information sources. However, from the general notes I recorded on my family tree at that time I noted that the father of the first nine children of Ann Moth was listed as Samuel Moth, although, interestingly – and perhaps tellingly – her first two children, both daughters, included the names of Butchers and Burgess amongst their given names. The next four children have Geert Hendriks Noorman listed as their father, who, rather mysteriously and perhaps erroneously, I recorded as living next door to Ann! Then there appear to be two more children with father(s) unknown. My direct ancestor Henry Noorman Moth, who in later life always went by the name Henry Moth, was a colourful character who appeared to spend most of his adult life in and out of prison. Anyway, like you, this exchange has rekindled my interest in this branch of my family, and I shall let you know if I find out any further information.
Kind regards
Steve