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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: Dannemois on Saturday 17 May 14 21:28 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can someone please do a look-up on the 1851 census for John Morgan born Aug 1846 at Tredegar. The only info I have is by 1866 he had moved to Fleur de Lys, Mon. Any details will be appreciated.
Regards, Roy
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This looks like him in 1851, family at Collier Row Tredegar:
John Morgan 38 Grocer b Monmouth (can't read placename)
Mary Morgan 44 b Glamorgan Cardiff
Elizabeth Do. 12 b Monmouth Tredegar
Ann Do. 11 b Do. Do.
Margaret Do. 2 b Do. Do.
John Do. 5 Scholar b Do. Do.
Elizabeth Jenkin15 House Servant b Monmouth Rhymney
I think I can see the family in 1861 too - let me know if you'd like those details.
Drosybont
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Hi Drosybont
Thank you so much for the details and yes please I would like the 1861 details
Regards, Roy
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Hi Roy
Here is 1861. Some differences from 1851 but to me it looks like the same family:
John Morgan 48 Blacksmith b Monmouthshire
Mary Ann Do. 50 b Glamorganshire Cardiff
Eliza Jane Do. 22 b Mon Tredegar
Ann Do. 20 b Do. Do.
John Do. 15 b Do. Do.
Margrete Do. 12 b Do. Do.
Still Colliers Row Tredegar, this time it also says Hamlet of Uwchlawrcoed. Shall I look for them in 1871?
Drosybont
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Yes please, any information you can find is a bonus
Thanks, Roy
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This looks like some of the family in 1871 at 10 Church Sq Tredegar, Uchlawrcoed, though I'm not sure how it fits in with John Morgan b 1846 moving to Fleur de Lys?
John Morgan 58 Master Smith b Mon Bassaleg
Sarah Do. 59 b Glamorgan Margam
Lydia Uppington unm stepdau 25 b Mon Tredegar
William Brown grandson 7 Scholar b Do. Do.
John Morgan son 25 Fitter in Iron Works b Do. Do.
Looks as though the mother Mary/Mary Ann must have died in the early 1860s, too many of either name in the area to tell when exactly. There's a John Morgan/Sarah Uppington marriage in Bedwelty 11a 151 Mar 1864. There are some marriages in the timescale which might be one of the daughters marrying a Brown.
Drosybont
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Thanks again for the details. The information with him moving to Fleur de Lis is from his obituary. "He was born at Tredegar, in South Wales, August 26 in the year 1846. When 20 years old he removed to Fleur-de-lis, in Monmouthshire, where he soon made his name in battling for the rights of the worker, being at one time chairman of the Rhymney Valley miners. Owing to falling health, John Morgan emigrated to Australia in 1886". It doesn't say when he actually moved to Fleur de Lis after the census.
Roy
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What you say about the obituary makes me wonder whether this is the right John Morgan. Chairing the Rhymney Valley miners oesn't seem all that likely, though I suppose he could have been fitting engines in pits. Anyway, this lot are again at 10 Church Sq, Tredegar in 1881, John having married his stepsister:
John Morgan Head 35 Engine Fitter b Monmouth Tredegar
Lidia Morgan wife 31 b Do. Do.
John Do. son 7 Schooler b Do. Do.
William Do. son 1 b Do. Do.
Sarah Do. Mother W 71 Annuitant b Glamorgan Pyle
Jemima Richards Unm 29 Domestic Servant b Monmouth Tredegar
Drosybont
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This might be a better possibility in 1871 in view of the occupation and place - Bedwelty Islawrcoed, Trylin:
John Morgan Head 24 Coal Miner Tredegar Mon
Mary Ann Do. Wife 22 Trylin Do.
Margaret Jane Do. Dau 1 Do. Do.
David Morgan Brother 18 Coal Miner Rhymney Do.
Not getting anywhere much finding this John Morgan or others in the household before or afterwards. Just out of interest, when and where did he die?
Drosybont
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Hi
I have to admit that second family looks more like it; Here's the family on the 1881
1881@ 16 Wingfield Row, Gelligaer, Glamorgan, Wales
John Morgan H W 32 Platelayer in coal mine Bedwellty, Monmouth
William Son 09 Scholar Bedwellty
Emrys Son 05 Scholar Bedwellty
Thomas Morgan Brother W 37 coal miner Bedwellty
David Morgan Nephew 10 scholar Aberdare, Glam
Catherine Morgan Niece 08 scholar Gelligaer, Glam
William Morgan Nephew 05 scholar Gelligaer
Esther Jones Visitor U 23 Farm servant Llanwrtyd, Brecknock
Margaret Jones Servant U 26 Gen/Domestic Llanwrtyd, Brecknock
John Morgan, wid, married Margaret Jones
John Morgan left for Australia 1886; Margaret followed with family 1887
24 MAR 1887 ABYSSINIA LONDON via CAPETOWN SYDNEY
MORGAN MARGT JOINING HUSBAND 32 PASSENGER MARRIED
MORGAN EMRYS 11 PASSENGER MALE
MORGAN JOHN 6 PASSENGER MALE
MORGAN CATHE 4 PASSENGER FEMALE
MORGAN GWEN 2 PASSENGER FEMALE
MORGAN ROSINA PASSENGER FEMALE INFANT
MORGAN WILLIAM WITH MOTHER 14 PASSENGER SINGLE MALE
both died in Australia: Margaret died 1916; John Morgan died 1926
Regards, Roy
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Aha, the Welsh Bard, hadn't realised this was about him again! Pleased to have another go, his obituary on Trove is impressive.
Yes, I think the family at Colliers Row/10 Church Sq are a red herring, and the family at Islawrcoed, Trylin in 1871 are a good possibility. The daughter, Margaret Jane, helps confirm it for me. The children for whom John Morgan paid an Immigration Deposit in 1886 included Margaret J 17, and amongst the family names in his death notice were Mrs & Mr J Hurle - Margaret J Morgan married James W Hurle in Newcastle in 1909. I can't see her travelling to Australia, but I think I can see her in the 1881 census in Bedwelty, Trelyn:
William Phillips Head 70 Coal Miner Breconshire Llanelly
Catherine Do. Wife 69 Glamorganshire Llangatwg
Margaret J Morgan Grand-daur 11 Scholar Monmouthshire Bedwelty
Gwen Morgan Do. Do. 2 Do. Do.
With John Morgan widowed in Gelligaer with William and Emrys, Margaret Jane was presumably elsewhere, so this could be her. Not the same Gwen as the daughter who went to Australia, though, wrong age.
I'll have another look at it tomorrow.
Drosybont
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My theory about Margaret J looks wrong because at her wedding she's said to be John's youngest daughter. However, something better to report is that I've found his parents names - David and Catherine - from a record of his death. This evening I'll see if I can do anything with that!
Drosybont
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Gosh you are working hard on this one; your efforts are greatly appreciated.
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Happy to keep going and see if I can find anything for you if it helps. Some of my Davies's require similar hunts and one of them vanished supposedly to Australia, so I need all the practice I can get! And I enjoy the excuse to spend time looking more closely at the Valleys and find out about Welsh communities in Australia, all interesting stuff.
Anyway, I've been trawling through references to the family in Australian newspapers to see if there are any clues back to John Morgan's years in Wales. Not sure whether you've looked at his nephew already - if you have please let me know whether I'm on the right track and if not, just ask and I'll pass on details of where I found the information.
In John Morgan's 1926 death notice a nephew Mr T B Rees of Sydney was mentioned, in 1915 John Morgan visited his nephew Mr T B Rees in Brisbane, and when Mr T B Rees dies in 1933 the obituary said he's Thomas Bevan Rees, b Ystalyfera 1877, son of Mr Ebenezer Rees, and confirmed that he moved from Brisbane to Sydney about 7 years before his death. This Ebenezer Rees appears to be the well-known printer and publisher, born in Tredegar, some biographies say illegitimate, son of Margaret Rees, some say orphaned when very young. No big clue to John Morgan's orgins from it yet, still working on it, will let you know if I find out more.
Drosybont
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Hello
Many thanks for the work you are putting into this topic, all your efforts are very much appreciated. I have no objection to you carrying on; you are free to do as you wish. I came interested in John Morgan by accident after doing some research on Brithdir Boys' school. Brithdir in the Rhymney Valley, Glamorgan is where I grew up and I have been researching the village for the past several years (since I retired). I've been working with the school log books of late taking interest in the Boys' Department during WW1 and the effect the war had on the school. Several teachers left for war service so I began researching them individually. A log book entry caught my eye; the headmaster wrote on April 16, 1918 " the school was visited this morning by Private Emrys Morgan of Newcastle N.S.W. prior to leaving for Australia". I wanted to learn more; who was he, why did he visit Brithdir etc. Having located his army records I learnt Emrys was born in the next village, namely Bargoed and his father was John Morgan. Finding he was 'Welsh Bard' only fuelled my interest and I began trawling the Australian newspapers for information. I'm still working with the newspapers and up to the minute I have concentrated on Emrys and his father John Morgan. The nephew is new, I have done nothing on him and would be happy to receive any details you have.
I also began looking for details of their time in Wales to add to their story and that's where you came in. I hope you are enjoying the chase as much as I am and welcome any help you can offer. Cheers Roy
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The nephew. Queensland Times Friday 7 May 1915: John Morgan, a "very old resident of Wales" is "staying with his nephew Mr T B Rees, Arosfa, Rockbourne Terrace, W Paddington, Brisbane". Obituary Brisbane Courier Saturday 19 August 1933: Mr Thomas Bevan Rees, b Ystalyfera 1877, son of Mr and Mrs Ebenezer Rees, came to Queensland about 27 years ago, 7 years ago went to live in Sydney to take up important position on the "Medical Journal", 2 years ago revisited native land, on eve of returning when died. All on Trove. Died in London. Occupation linotype printer.
T B Rees's father Ebenezer Rees 1848 - 1908 is in Welsh Biography Online. Says born Sirhowy, orphaned, brought up by relatives of mother, David Clee and wife. Persecuted because of his trade unionist convictions, fled to Pennsylvania 1869, came back 1872. Printer, publisher, established Llais Llafur as a weekly newspaper.
In 1851 census Ebenezer "Beavan" was with David Clee and first wife Ruth (Bevan) in Tredegar. In 1861 census he's boarding with Daniel and Mary Rees and family in Llanguick. The connection to John Morgan could be Bevan, Rees or Clee, or even via Ebenezer's wife Jane (James).
Drosybont
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Hi
Thanks for the details. What began as a one line entry in the school log of the visit of Pte Emrys Morgan as opened up into a fascinating story. I have located a photograph of John Morgan in his later years which again enhances the story.
Regards, Roy
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I guess the John Morgan photo you've found is the one on Trove, striking, isn't it. Well Emrys Morgan was born 21 May 1875 in Trelyn, son of John Morgan and Mary Ann, formerly Phillips. So it looks as though the 1871 family I found in Trelyn was correct. There's a Margaret Jane Morgan death aged 17 registered in Bedwellty 1st quarter 1887 which would account for the disappearance of the eldest daughter between John Morgan paying the Immigration Deposit and the rest of the family going to Australia.
Haven't found anything else definite. Common names, early death of one or both parents and movement from place to place make for tricky researching. So I'll leave this one for now, it's been fun, happy to have a go at any more puzzles like this in the future!
Drosybont
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The photo is the one on Trove, he certainly looks a character. Thanks for all your efforts and interest in this topic. Pte Emrys Morgan's army papers throw up some red herrings. The first few pages he is listed as David Morgan born in the parish of Tredegar, father John Morgan Windsor Street, Merewether, Newcastle, NSW. Then after he gave a satisfactory explanation his name appears thereafter as Emrys Morgan, born in Bargoed?????. Then there is the record of death listing his parents as David & Catherine. Will I ever get to the bottom of this intriguing chase, time will tell
It has been a pleasure having your help on this one, best regards
Roy
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Hi Roy
Really doesn't help, does it, Emrys calling himself David! The death records I've seen look like this:
Emerys (sic) Morgan
d 1928 Randwick NSW
Father's name John, Mother's name Margaret
John Morgan
d 1926 Merewether NSW
Father's name David, Mother's name Catherine
I guess by the time Emrys died the family might not have been sure of John's first wife's name, or were maybe not sure which children had which mother. Another confusion is that Emrys's age is given as 43 in his obituary on Trove but the passenger/immigration records in 1887 show him aged 11, which lines up well enough with the birth details I found.
Drosybont
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Of course it was; David and Catherine were the parents of John Morgan not Emrys's..........now I'm getting confused. It's time I give it a rest.
Cheers, Roy