RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: skyguy69 on Monday 19 May 14 15:59 BST (UK)
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Did you know that on the side of one of the turrets of Methven Castle is a coat of arms that is not the arms of Methven but I believe is the arms of Meffen? It shows 2 bushels ofwheat angled away from each other. Not the Methven coat of arms of a heart on top of a black/white chevron with Marte et Clypeo ( by war and the shield) as its motto. I believe before the times of war centuries before it was Meffen Castle. Meffen stems from an earlier word meaning "Agriable land" hence the coat of arms on the side of Methven Castle. Methven and Meffen /Meffan are synonymous with each other. So if you are at a brick wall with our Methven lineage you may want to try paralleling families with a Meffen or Meffan spelling.
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Here is an interesting article on the background on Methven Castle, and the changes in the way it is spelt and pronounced:
http://www.tmethvin.com/methvin/pdf/methvencowners.pdf
Trystan
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I am relatively new to this and would appreciate any help or advice on offer! I am tracing the surname Meffen (my maternal grandmother's maiden name) and after finding the general stuff dating back to early 1800s, my research literally leap-frogged me back to Henry Steward as Lord Methven etc. I understand the issue of ambiguity in regard to spelling and translation, but Meffen is not that common ... is it? How can I link up with a possible 'relative' who has done more research than I or is it a case of me slowly tracing back my line to see if there is a link? I'm thoroughly enjoying this project so I am not looking for the work to be handed to me on a plate as it were, but I just don't know where to start.
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Just use Google??
https://archive.org/stream/historyoflifedea1818scot#page/22/search/Methven
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Thank you for the Google advice - I have already done this hence my leap back to 1537 but will definitely try the link you sent.
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Probably didn't explain myself very well; I don't know how to research my specific family in relation to the 16th C.
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Just Googled
methven pedigree
https://fabpedigree.com/s038/f622820.htm
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You really need to track your family back one step at a time. If you are needing help going backwards then start a new post giving information on the family you are trying to research in the 1800's
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https://fabpedigree.com/s056/f019728.htm goes right up to late 1900's
so move between pages to see if yours slots in or not. As Rosie says.... track your family back one step at a time.
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As I said, I'm new at this. So it is, as I thought, one step at a time? Thank you.
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No problem!
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Thank you Rosie.
Out of interest: is anybody on here related to William Meffen of Derbyshire, executed in Leicester Prison, August 1944 for murdering his step-daughter, Winifred Stanley.
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Sorry I don't know whether anyone on here is related to William Meffen. I have just put the name into this sites search facility but got no matches
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Thank you Rosie.
Out of interest: is anybody on here related to William Meffen of Derbyshire, executed in Leicester Prison, August 1944 for murdering his step-daughter, Winifred Stanley.
I don't see a Death Registration in 1944? ???
Actually, Yes I do! I searched 1844?! :-[
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So easy to do KG when so much of our time is spent looking at records for the 1800's ;D
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Was he hung in 1844 and not die until 1944? ;D
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He was executed 08 August 1944 at Leicester Prison by Albert Pierrepont. He murdered his step-daughter Winifred Stanley on 29 February 1944. Prosecution suggested he was in love with her and that he slit her throat with a cut-throat razor because she was seeing a man named George Birks and he (William) was jealous. I think the poor man was unwell; he had contracted Malaria in India during WW1 and his army records state that he 'had syphilis'. Don't think they realised the impact of syphilis on the brain in those days. I have much more info on him if you are interested.
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Still stuck finding links further back than 1628 but don't want to say in case I'm ridiculed......
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Nobody is ridiculing you... All that was posted was banter between the people trying to help you!
You've been good advice to research back step by step from whoever you have plus the Pedigree was posted for you.
Your research literally leap-frogged you back from 1800's to Henry Steward as Lord Methven .....the advise is not to leap frog!!
If you look at other threads you will often come across banter!!
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Oh dear - I realise that you have taken my apparent poor attempt at humour seriously..... it was 'tongue in cheek' and in the very mode of banter that you so kindly identified for me as the norm.
Really didn't need a lecture .
Thanks.
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No smilie or anything on post to suggest banter! 8)
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I am relatively new to this and would appreciate any help or advice on offer! I am tracing the surname Meffen (my maternal grandmother's maiden name) and after finding the general stuff dating back to early 1800s, my research literally leap-frogged me back to Henry Steward as Lord Methven etc. I understand the issue of ambiguity in regard to spelling and translation, but Meffen is not that common ... is it? How can I link up with a possible 'relative' who has done more research than I or is it a case of me slowly tracing back my line to see if there is a link? I'm thoroughly enjoying this project so I am not looking for the work to be handed to me on a plate as it were, but I just don't know where to start.
You really need to track your family back one step at a time. If you are needing help going backwards then start a new post giving information on the family you are trying to research in the 1800's
Hello
You need to start with your actual relative known to you or your family personally that you wish to trace backward from, being your Maternal Grandmother, so you will need to work backward from her Marriage Certificate. The best way is to apply for their Death Certificate, Marriage Certificate and Birth Certificates in reverse order obviously, as you are working backward.
Ask your related family members, including those you may never have seen, who might know of them, what they recall about your family, but back this up with Certificates & Wills (Wills if they left one) & other documents, as you work backward.
When you get back to 1911 (the most recent Census available in England & Wales) find them in that and cross reference your Certificates with the Census, held every 10 years, backward.
Free BMD search the England & Wales Births, Marriages & Deaths Indexes September 1837 to 1983
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/search
To order England & Wales Certificates & check Mother's Maiden Surname on earlier Births
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
To check if a Will or Administration at Death, or in the years immediately following death (back to 1858) check the Calendars (Indexes) and Order Wills and Admins here ...
https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate
I'm afraid you can't use general information at all and cannot make assumptions, you might find yourself totally on the wrong line and your actual line is more interesting, or you may find you are not linked to any famous family at all.
Don't rely on online trees, some have errors or have made assumptions (without a document and no corroboration to back up the claim) and may not be your precise family line. You must work your own personal line backward yourself.
When you get stuck or uncertain or need a little more help, come back on here and say my Grandmother's line is confirmed back to xxxx and I'm stuck with this.
But you must start, working methodically backward in sequence and it is best obtaining the Certificates of your known relative first, then you have something concrete to work back from, provided there is no illegitimacy and everyone Registered their Birth back to 1837. (Bear in mind there was no Legal requirement to Register a Birth in England & Wales until the 1870s, but most parents did.)
Some Births Registered from 1837 Eng & Wales, also have separate Baptism & Birth records, in Parish Church (C of E), or in Nonconformist Registers (some are online & others in Archives and Record Offices.
All the Best, Mark
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Thank you Mark - I appreciate your time, advice and links.
That is kind of what I was originally asking but I guess I didn't explain very well. I have already traced my grandmother's line back to 1628 and could get no further - hence my reason for joining this forum.
Best
Ann
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Thank you Mark - I appreciate your time, advice and links.
That is kind of what I was originally asking but I guess I didn't explain very well. I have already traced my grandmother's line back to 1628 and could get no further - hence my reason for joining this forum.
Best
Ann
Hello Ann
My word if you have a documented proven line back to 1628 that usually requires some extremely serious detective work in Archives and University Special Collections around the UK and elsewhere to get back to 1628!!
But you claimed you were new to this and said your information two hundred years ago was pretty general, then mentioned a leap frog.
Who were they in 1628 - I mean their Occupation and Place where they lived?
Were they Land Owner or Tenant, Yeoman, Farmer, or other occupation like Blacksmith or what?
Sometimes you can find these people in Manors, Land Owners and records of Lords of the Manor, Estate Surveys, Rentals, Accounts, Deeds, Leases, Tithe records, Fee Farm & other types of Rent, Tax, Land Enclosures, Court's Baron, Manor Court Rolls, Marriage Settlements (if well off) Parliamentary Acts and the like. Many Lords owned land in many counties and their collections today are spread over several County Archives, Museums & University Special Collections and some are still in private hands.
However, to get a continuous line back to 1628, you must already be pretty au fait with those type of records and many many others! But then you mention leap frogging?
If you had to corroborate your family in land owner records etc., then you must already be very familiar with available records in Archives and University Special Collections (like those I've looked at & collected from 400 to 500 years ago for my Local History hobby), especially to have got a family line back to 1628!
Mark
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Well. I was initially focusing on William Meffen (d.1944) because I knew of the execution but then I did the 'leap frog' back by pure chance during my research on other sites. I knew I couldn't assume anything and realised I needed to continue with my line to see if there were any links, and so I did and yes, it has taken some time. The trace is documented to an extent so far but I have solely focused on the male Meffen line.
The link back to 1628 is one ancestor only and I have nothing concrete as yet - hence my visit to this site for advice.
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.... Was the William Meffen who died in 1944 your direct ancestor? :-\
If he committed murder due to unrequited love, I get the impression he was a single man? If so, what is your link to him? Or was he married? :-\
(just trying to take this back a few steps .... :) )
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Yes. The William Meffen I cite is my Great Uncle - my maternal grandmother’s brother. He wasn’t single - it was his 2nd marriage and he murdered his step-daughter who was 38 at the time of her death- the suggestion is that he was in love with her but it was unreciprocated....
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Yes. The William Meffen I cite is my Great Uncle - my maternal grandmother’s brother. He wasn’t single - it was his 2nd marriage and he murdered his step-daughter who was 38 at the time of her death- the suggestion is that he was in love with her but it was unreciprocated....
Thanks for clarifying. :)