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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Greg McGrath on Wednesday 21 May 14 04:19 BST (UK)
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Am looking for more details about William. Why he was sentenced, who his parents were etc. has anyone information? Born in 1797 (don't know where) died Burwood, Sydney 10 Mar 1876.
Regards
Greg
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Hi Greg,
The Tottenham arrived in October 1818, not 1814. From the convict indents, there were two possibles onboard:
William WELLS alias WELCH, tried Middlesex, 29 Oct 1817 (7 years), aged 20, native place Oxfordshire, Stableman
William WELCH, tried Chelsmsford, Essex, 28 July 1817 (Life), aged 25, native place Hertfordshire, Gardener.
Debra :)
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Hi Greg
As Debra says, two possibilities on board the Tottenham.
William Wells/Welch shows him disembarking from the Tottenham on 20th October 1818 and being forwarded to Liverpool for general distribution. He was one of 97convicts shown in this particular record and the other William Welch is not on that record, but he may be on another one for the same ship.
A Conditional Pardon was issued for a William Welch on 31st Day of August 1837. Description is Ship - Tottenham, Native place Hertfordshire, Trade - Gardener, Offence - Housebreaking, Sentence - Life, Year of birth 1793, Height - 5 feet 8 inches and three quarters, Hair - Black, Eyes - Dark
Noells
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The conditional pardon says housebreaking, but the criminal registers say "shooting at cattle". He was originally sentenced to death which was commuted to life.
The WELLS/WELCH chap was tried for larceny and received his certificate of freedom in 1824.
The 1828 census shows William WELCH with his wife Elizabeth and children - he is still a Government Servant and working as a gardener so he would be the Essex lifer (the census says 14 years ::) )
Debra :)
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Good one Debra.
At least now we all know which one Greg is searching for.
Noells
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All
Thanks for the quick and accurate information. Yes, William was a gardner and his wife was Elizabeth Hazelton. Now that I know he is the Essex Welch I will be able to explore further. Is there any more information out there?
Thanks
Greg
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Not sure now if this is the couple.
New South Wales Registry of bdm.
Marriage between William Welch and Elizabeth Donaldson however there are two numbers
V18433717 74/B 1843
And
V18431637 76/1843
Noells
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Me again
1843 would be far too late, so not the correct couple. Did William have a son called William?
Noells
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Wiiliam applied to marry Elizabeth HAZELTON in 1824. He was per Tottenham, she was free.
http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/default.htm
Debra :)
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1828 Census
William WELCH, 31, Government Servant, Tottenham, 1817, 14 years, protestant, Gardener, Pitt Street.
Elizabeth WELCH, 24, came free, Indispensable, 1808, protestant
Harriett, 3½, born in the colony
Richard William, 2, born in the colony
An Infant (no age given), born in the colony
Debra :)
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Does anyone have the names of their children from the 1828 Census?
Greg
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Does anyone have the names of their children from the 1828 Census?
Greg
Debra has already posted their names on #9.
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You probably have his death notice
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13363166
Judith
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This birth notice suggests that the son with whom he was staying at the time of his death had the initials G C WELCH.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28399854
Funeral notice:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13361115
Judith
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Marriage:
William WELSH m. Elizabeth HAZELTON 8 May 1824 St. Phillips CoE Sydney #V1824345 8
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Could be worth looking at britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk
Essex Assizes, Summer 1817 in 'Cambridge Chronicle and Journal', Fri 8 Aug 1817 mentions a 'William Welch'
Suffolk Assizes, Summer 1817, in 'Norfolk Chronicle' Sat 9 Aug 1817 mentions a 'W Welch'
He is also mentioned in the A/try dataset 'England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791 - 1892'
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Hi Greg,
Following on from Gali's post, it seems that the criminal register has been incorrectly written or I am reading it wrong. It looks to me like the person above William, Edward HASLAR was tried for 'Stealing Cattle' and William below him is shown as 'Shooting at Do' (meaning 'ditto'). I thought this meant 'shooting at cattle', but it is far more interesting than that, William was a member of the 'desperate Elsenham gang'. How exciting! ;D
You may already have this by now:
From the 'Cambridge Chronicle and Journal', Fri 8 Aug 1817
http://postimg.org/image/5jblsffvb/
It starts at the bottom of the first column and he was actually shooting at a farmer, James DENNIS. The reference to William continues at the bottom of the second column where Lord Ellenborough is addressing the prisoners - "As to you WELSH...."
Some articles about the gang:
http://tlhs.org.uk/elsenham_gang.htm
http://www.hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/Whats-On-Leisure/My-ancestors-were-vicious-armed-gang.htm
There is also an article about the gang in The Essex Family Historian, No. 106, Autumn (November) 2002 by Fred Feather.
Debra :)
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Debra
Thanks so much for the added information. My dilemma now is how do I establish whether my William Welch is indeed the same person as William Welsh of the Elsenham Gang? As far as I have been able to establish there were at least six convicts named William Welch who were transported to NSW.
Greg
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Greg, aren't you descended from William WELSH/WELCH and Elizabeth HAZLETON? Their application/permission to marry shows that William was a convict who arrived on the Tottenham so other convicts with the same name are irrelevant. No? ???
Debra :)
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Debra,
Thanks for the reply. My concern was that my William and the William of the Elsenham Gang are indeed one and the same person. The evidence indicates that they were and before I announce it to others of the family I would like to be sure. Do we know absolutely that the Elsenham Gang William was transported on the Tottenham? This would just about seal it for me.
Greg
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Hi Greg,
Prison Hulk 'Retribution'
Wm. WELCH, tried Chelmsford 28 July 1817 aged 24, Life, Transported 20 Dec 1817
You can read the story of the 'Tottenham' here and why it took so long to get to NSW.
http://www.jenwilletts.com/convict_ship_tottenham_1818.htm
From the convict indents:
Document titled: Ship Tottenham, - Tons; D. McDOUGALL, Master; R. ARMSTRONG, Surgeon Superintendent Sailed from England - Arrived at Sydney 14th October 1818
William WELCH, tried Chelsmsford, Essex, 28 July 1817 (Life), aged 25, native place Hertfordshire, Gardener, 5ft 8¾ins, complexion dark rud? (ruddy), hair black, eyes dark.
From the transportation registers:
Document titled: Tottenham sailed January 1818
William WELCH
Where convicted: Essex assizes
When: 28 Jul 1817
Term: Life
Convict records usually continued to cite the trial date and place as this was the identifier for each individual.
Debra :)
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Debra
Thanks for filling in the 'missing' information .... I really appreciate your efforts and help.
Regards
Greg
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Thank you for this information, as I was having the same problem researching which William Welch/Welsh was my direct descendant. My family tree indicates my line comes down through William Richard Welch then George C Welch .
Regards
Mark Welch
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Hi,
William Welch and his son George Clayton Welch are also my ancestors. I’m new to this site, but happy to share info.
Lucy
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Hi Lucy,
I'm hoping you can help me. I've managed to research William Richard Welch and his history in Australia. I'm now interested in his family tree in the UK and to see how far I can follow the Welch name back. Any information you have would greatly be appreciated.
Kind Regards
Mark Welch
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for your reply. Sorry it has taken a long time to respond; I'm not on here very often but hope to get into researching family history in the future. I'm not very experienced with it, so anything that I have found in the UK history of William Richard is not deeply researched nor double checked for accuracy. I'll try to find where I filed away the leads I did find.
Do you know much about George Clayton Welch? I believe he may have lived in Goulburn NSW for a while and then perhaps operated a livery stable in Enmore? This is just stuff I've found on Trove. His son, William George Welch is my great-grandfather.
Look forward to hearing from you,
Lucy
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Hi Lucy,
Interesting William George Welch is also my Great Grandfather, if my information is correct that would make your Grandfather either Roy Clayton Welch or Darrell Gilbert Welch. My Grandfather was Harcourt Maitland Welch. William George Welch was married twice, first wife Mary Louise Capon around the Picton area. Then Agnes Annie Fitzsimmons, where they lived around the Maitland, Dungog areas. I used to live in Stroud very close to this area and I think its either Agnes's sister or mother buried in the cemetery there. I looked for the gravestones of our Great Grandparents in West Maitland, I found the area but not the stones. Sorry I don't know much about George Clayton Welch but that his he was in Petersham when he passed in 1913. Ill get back into researching it more soon and pass on any new information. I guess that makes us 3-4th cousins.
Regards
Mark Welch
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Hey Cuz!
That’s really exciting to meet someone with such a close link. Darrell Gilbert Welch was my grandfather. I’ve read a little about Harcourt and Roy via the Mosman library war records. Both sound like incredible characters. I have a framed picture in my home of Agnes Annie and son Lyall Hunter (before his accident) here in my lounge room. My father has one of William George on his horse, and one of the family in Maitland. I’m interested in George Clayton’s time in Goulburn, as I believe that one of his younger siblings may have been born in Crookwell, where I happen to live now, around 1862.
Would be great to get in touch.
Lucy
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I Like that Cuz :D
That would be really good to meet or get in contact. I live in Newcastle NSW . Its funny you mentioned Agnes Annie and Lyle Hunter. My Dad is Hunter Welch named after his uncle and my brother named his son Hunter as well, keeping the flow of tradition. I would love to see that picture. My Mobile is 0421563168 or can find me on Facebook using the name Mark Welch in Newcastle.
Hope to get some form of contact with in the future.
Regards
Mark Welch